29-04-2004 20:49									#271
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IN my calcs on the other DG, I found that each Civ devalued by 10% of full price, so I 'd say 70%, divide by two and round it down to a third of full price. How does that sound?

	29-04-2004 20:51									#272
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Maybe HMS Victoria should start heading toward the front line.

	29-04-2004 22:19									#273
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Oh yeah, silkfest.

Dunno about investigations. We could ask Tabemono, I suppose.

Next time one of us plays a save, let's check how many turns it would take HMS QV to reach the war. It's a long way, I think. Given that, we may be better served by keeping her near the crossing over to the other continent, to watch/protect against any funny business by LL.

-Arrian

	29-04-2004 22:19									#274
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1/3 cost sounds fine. Did we have a list of the tech costs here in the forum?

-Arrian

	29-04-2004 22:33									#275
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quote: Regular longbows probably aren't worth it.

sorry, but I have to disagree with you there. I'd rather be building longbows than horses (in atleast some towns), since they are only 10 shields more. I don't belive that the one less movement is any worry: if we were to break through the front line then londbows could get the job finished quicker. But that is not going to happen.

	29-04-2004 22:56									#276
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If we're going to build military units out of a town, we build a barracks first. Regular units SUCK.

We now have 6 barracks towns: Izz, CoS, Ciao, Silesia, Coventry and Silkfest.

Izz has an odd cycle right now of Horseman-worker-worker-worker. I think it can be transitioned this way:

At the end of the next 3-worker group, it builds two archers back-to-back. This should get it to Size 6.5. Then it builds 3 workers, which leaves it at size 5. Then an archer, which brings it to size 6, then a worker, then an archer...

ack. Let me try again. The point is to get it to Size 5.5, having just completed a worker. Then it can go archer-worker-worker-archer, rinse, repeat.

Silesia is simple, being at 10spt.

Coventry... same?

CoS is at 8spt, IIRC, and thus I maintain horsies are more efficient.

Ciao... can't remember. 7 or 8, I think.

Silkfest is a 1-shield/turn city. We can just set it to build an archer. If it's not going to complete by the time we're due to get invention, we can rush it to completion.

-Arrian

Last edited by Arrian on 29-04-2004 at 23:01

	29-04-2004 23:00									#277
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By the way, our support costs are going to get worse, in a good way

Badcrumble will complete its granary next turn, IIRC. It is producing 5spt, with +5fpt. 2 turn workers, as long as we want 'em.

What do you guys think about building a road due south of BC, through the mountain range, to reach the jungle, where those workers can then start cutting it down? The alternative is to send them around and down the war road.

-Arrian

	30-04-2004 01:56									#278
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Since our horses retreat feature will not actually allow them to back off and heal while attacking Horse Island, instinct tells me even regular longbows would be better than vet horses.

I haven't run it through the calculator, but even if our horses retreat, then they're left wounded and unhealable. I should probably take a look at a combat calculator tonight, if I have time, to see which is more sound.

Doesn't sound like we're lacking barracks towns, though. At least we should be able to fill all the galleys we can come up with by the time invention comes around.

Sending our lone swordsmen is probably a good idea, too. Defense and offense, so we can skip the spear on the first wave.

	30-04-2004 18:42									#279
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quote: Since our horses retreat feature will not actually allow them to back off and heal while attacking Horse Island, instinct tells me even regular longbows would be better than vet horses.

Monkey's culture didn't cover the entire island, last I saw. So they *could* run away and heal. Though I'd prefer just winning with overwhelming force in the first place.

I don't think we will have Invention by the time our island assault force is being assembled. If we do, well Frustrated Poet (the veteran archer unit, not the poster) has been moving east towards Cow River, and he can be directed to Silkfest for upgrade.

Otherwise, I think we're looking at either 4 horse, 1 spear, 1 sword, or 5 horse + 1 sword. The reason I think we might want to bring a spear is because of the Numidians' 2 attack. If somebody landed a stack of 5 horse & 1 sword (the best attacker is also best defender), I would attack with my Numidians, hoping to beat up or kill the sword, and then get into those horsies with their 1 defense.

We can ponder this a bit more as time passes.

-Arrian

	30-04-2004 21:17									#280
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Oh, I'd forgotten about the 2 attack, though I doubt there will be enough defenders that they'd risk losing any in a pre-emptive strike. Perhaps after the sword has wounded himself attacking.

At least, that's how I'd defend, I'm no MP pro.

Edit: All that babbling to forget - yes, with the 2 attack, you're probably right on the spearman.
I wonder - if there's not enough culture to cover the island, could we spare a settler? Drop a settler, rush a barracks, then a library/temple/extra defender. It would certainly tip our hand, but it would also possibly steal the horses if we can't overpower the town. I need to open the save again and take a closer look.

Last edited by ducki on 30-04-2004 at 21:42

	03-05-2004 15:57									#281
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian What do you guys think about building a road due south of BC, through the mountain range, to reach the jungle, where those workers can then start cutting it down? The alternative is to send them around and down the war road. -Arrian

Agreed, the quicker we chop that jungle, the lesser hiding places the Monkeys will have in the trees...

I prefer to keep them off the war road.

BTW, any barbs lurking in the jungle?

	03-05-2004 17:44									#282
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Shouldn't be. We have it pretty well covered.

-Arrian

	03-05-2004 23:30									#283
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quote: Octavian X, We can't see your stack this turn - is there anything you can suggest we could do with our stack this turn that would help? Regards, Cort.

	05-05-2004 13:02									#284
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quote: Cort Haus, Our stack is currently at Holy Grill1. Next turn, we move in right between Holy Grill and Orangutang - divide and conquer. I'd say move into a position to attack, or at least hamper movement from one city to another. One more thing - I checked, and at 90% science/10% lux, we rake in 134 beakers and make -92gpt. At 0% sci/10% lux, we make +44gpt. Arrian was asking for this information to work out tech deals - pass that on to the appropriate CoD people. Thanks, Octavian X

	05-05-2004 17:53									#285
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This (above) from Python suggests that Monkey trashed Holy Grill. They've probably moved their troops south of Python's stack to protect Orantutang.

Perhaps we should apply pressure to Gorilla to draw troops away from Python while the boats get into position. Given the shield cost of harbours, it would take a while to build one on that island. If so, that city may be less of a priority than helping Python more directly in the core.

	05-05-2004 17:59									#286
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quote: Holy Grill has been disbanded, and I expect they moved the contents south to protect Orangutang. Our stack is now at SiegePerilous3, heading west to meet with 3 boats for an attack on the island. Alternatively, we could approach Gorilla to draw forces away from your stack.

	11-05-2004 04:34									#288
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quote: Hi Octavian X, We are now researching Invention at deficit (8 turns). We'll be needing some cash from you guys for Engineering soon. How does 1/3 cost of Engineering sound to Python? I don't know where our list of tech prices has gone, so don't have a number available - do you know what the price is? Cheerz, -Cort

	12-05-2004 11:41									#289
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quote: Cort Haus, According to the editor, engineering was 36. Don't know what that is after devaluation. We'd pay, according to your plan, gold worth 10 points. What's a good gold rate for that? 10g/point? We have about 900g now, and just finished the last rush we have planned for a while. One more thing - got this message from LL. What do you guys think? quote: PTWDG2: feudalism Greetings! Has been a long time since we last spoke with your civ. Congratulations for the consolidatium of your growing empire. Do you have Feudalism? we are interested on purchase it. If you want/could, our treasury is 232gold and payment per turn is possible. Just say a (interesting) number :-) We are also open on a stable future tech cooperation. If you have some plan.... Niessuh, Latin Lovers ~Octavian X

	12-05-2004 18:53									#290
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To Octavian:

quote: Octavian, I just wanted to finalize our deals for Engineering and Invention. I think we quoted you 1/3 cost on Engineering. That would be 288 gold. That doesn't include any devaluation, but on the other hand we got you Feudalism via trade too. Is that acceptable? We are currently researching Invention at 8 turn pace. Our beaker output this turn was 147. Divided into thirds (us, you, python), that's 49 beakers/turn. So, if you could send us 49 gold per turn, that will cover the research costs nicely. If we get a devaluation from another team getting the tech first, and/or if we can turn down research on the final turn (likely), we will refund whatever is appropriate. One question that I'm not sure how to answer is what to do regarding trades to other teams. I don't expect there will be many opportunities to sell Invention to MAST, SS or LL, but you never know. If that happens, perhaps we can agree that any sale made must be for cash, and the cash will be split 3 ways? Sound good? Finally, regarding selling feudalism: that should be Tabemono's tech to sell. They traded it to us for Engineering, with the condition that we could pass it on to you, but no other team. Therefore, please do not sell it on. Thanks, -Arrian

	18-05-2004 23:56									#291
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quote: Hi Octavian, We have the turn. We could position our 10 horses at Gorilla88 this turn if it will help. The furry fiends will have to divert from Orangutan. We'd risk getting clobbered, but they'd be risking exposing themselves. From Gorilla88, Gorilla77 could be reached the following turn, threatening Macaque too. Or we hold the horses and wait for the slowmovers to defend them, maybe using the boats to either drop the spears off with the horses or attack the island. I suspect it would be better to stick to the main front. What say ye, Knights who in the near future may be saying "ekkie ekkie ekkie F'Taang!"? Also, did you see Arrian's message on the tech score? Some cash to help Invention arrive in SEVEN turns would be nice Cheerz -Cort

	19-05-2004 12:53									#292
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Unfortunately this came too late for the playing of the turn. Seems like Python's forces are nearly wiped out. We may be next, but hopefuly Monkey had some casualties too.

quote: Cort Haus, I'm not sure if you guys noticed, but we underwent a massacre at Orangutan87. 9 swords and 3 spears were killed by Numbidian Mercs, most of whom sustained some considerable damange as well. For the moment, we are retreating into Siege Perilous, at least until our reinforcements (currently crossing through CoD's lands) arrive. I'd recommend that CoD forces stay back as well, to avoid damage. I don't remember any message from Arrian asking for gold for invention, though we want that tech asap. Just quote us the necessary price (we're at ~950g with around +50gpt) and we'd be more than happy to help. We're also waiting on your request for payment for engineering. Something else you should know - Monkey has recently contacted us, asking for us to end the war and turn on CoD. We will reply soon with a firm reply of 'no.' ~Octavian X

	19-05-2004 13:00									#293
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Resent Arrian's message to Octavian

	19-05-2004 13:22									#294
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Ouch!
Did Orangutan87 fall at least? It seems not...

	19-05-2004 19:52									#295
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Damn. 9 swords destroyed!

We are going to lose a bunch of horsies, fellas.

Furthermore, once we get invention (and can no longer build archers for upgrade), we need to pump out a bundle of spearmen and catapults.

Basically, we are going to almost have to start this war from scratch, with entirely new attack stacks.

-Arrian

	20-05-2004 14:21									#296
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quote: Cort Haus: Can do. We'll send the gold next turn. One quick question - how do want that gpt - in an actual gpt deal for 20 turns, or for the time of the gold, or what? Taking that requested 49gpt over 8 turns is 392g. With the 288g, we could just send a 680g lump sum for all of the costs. How does that sound? ~Octavian X

	20-05-2004 14:28									#297
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quote: Octavian X, Yes, send it in a lump if it's available rather than GPT, thanks Comiserations on your recent losses, and thanks for holding firm to the alliance. Monkey makes offers to us too on occasions, but like yourselves we are comitted to seeing this through. We might take some losses if they can get NMs to attack Gorilla88, but hopefully they won't have enough in range, so will instead defend Gorilla and split the stack that you were facing. If we get hammered it'll be our Somme for your Verdun. Regards, Cort

	20-05-2004 14:31									#298
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quote: ( - we'll send you Feudalism as soon as it is needed, but we're holding back to stop devaluing it for LL. Once LL has it we'll send.)

	24-05-2004 17:48									#299
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quote: Octavian X, Our ten horses are fine, the enemy just stationed their stack at Gorilla8 as hoped. This should ease the pressure on your side while you recuperate. They have 12 cats and 6 numids. Cats are: Catapult, Sod Thrower,, Chucker, Dung Heaver, Feces Flinger, Turn Slinger, Fruit Cake Launcher, Heavy Heaver, Justice, Poo Flinger, Sheeeit Flinger, Hurler of Python Swordsmen NMs are: Cubby's bis Sis, Elite Renher Mack, Rangers Sylvester, Olllie, Trudy, Macaquian Invention comes in 6 turns - when your 10 archers get to SP. Then we can start Gunpowder! Question is, do we keep harassing their NW with a full stack, or send six units to Howler Island, trying to take it down before they can get 2 harbours and horses connected? We'll probably put units on boats and send round the coast to keep Monkey defending that side. We could even land a force to their south. Any comments / suggestions welcome... Cheers, ~Cort

	24-05-2004 19:48									#300
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I never needed this before, but can you blockade in C3?
If so, do we have enough galleys to blockade the Island in the event that we cannot take them down in time?