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Cort Haus
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London
Apr 2002
time: 05:29
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from Python,
quote:
Cort Haus,
Being the silly Pythonians we are, we'd like to post the following public annoucment that has indirect conection to our war:
quote:
Monty Python holds a Revolution!
***Breaking News***
Monty Python's anarcho-beaurocratic commune has been overthrown!
Peasants tired of paying granary tax, temple tax, army tax, research tax, luxury tax, and tax collector tax stormed the palace at Camelot. They took several government leaders prisonner, including our M.O.R.O.N Sir Ralph.
Revolutionary leaders declared Monty Python's offical government to be Anarchy. Citizens will never have to work or pay tax again!
Lumberjacks around the nation threw down their shovels and picks, refusing to build any more roads and mines. A group of men in dresses captured Monkey Ambassador DaveMcW at his beach house on the shores of Castle Anthrax, threatening his life if he did not stop cooperating with the primates.
OctavianX took advantage of the situation, expanding his powers from figurehead despot to designated player.
Darekill seized control of the army, and immediately began laying plans to invade the southern continent.
The remaining team members have gone into hiding, and are nowhere to be seen. |
If you guys give the go ahead, we'll post it. 
~Octavian X
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and my reply
quote:
Octavian X,
I don't know what SR would think about his jobtitle there, but as all contact between civs have not been made, we think there should be no posts yet about it on the public forum. There may be / have been a war on the other continent too - but nothing has been posted. If Monkey start something in public, maybe we could respond, but from CoD's pov we'd prefer to keep the war quiet for now.
I'll get back to you later when I've opened our turn to discuss and co-ordinate. Perhaps we could meet on IRC. I'm not up-to-speed on IRC, but if you are maybe you could set up a room for us. I have a helpfile for MIRC, so could probably suss it out if needs be.
Regards,
Cort.
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Cort Haus
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London
Apr 2002
time: 05:29
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quote:
Octavian X,
We didn't recieve the peace accepted. Maybe it doesn't work when sent with a RoP, so we'll send Peace accepted. Once you have that, try sending us the RoP accepted.
Monkey have declared war on us both - unless you declared on your turn. They have captured our scout, but will give us some war-joy which will be handy.
They have disbanded Bonobo - perhaps to send all their Numids South to defend their core. They may pillage the road on their way south to hole up with their GA pumping Numids. The CoD pillage team has left Plymouth (3 Spears 1 Horse in 2 Galleys) and will arrive near Pri Cent, if unimpeded, around T105/106.
We will be sending 4 upgraded horses south on the war road on our next turn, T102, for the attack on Mandrill, so please hold your sword at Swindon-7 to enable passage - thanks.
Regards,
Cort.
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Cort Haus
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London
Apr 2002
time: 05:29
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quote:
Cort Haus,
I could have sworn the Peace-RoP worked. We will resent RoP accepted.
We didn't declare war on them, though their disbanding tactic suprised me. We'll likely simply continue south after the road through the jungle is completed, so the catapults can come with us.
We also recieved the following message from conmcb25 of the Monkeys.
quote:
"We give our congratulations to Python,
You sudden intent to invade our nation has really caught us by surprise. We
have been studying the save, and believe there will be very little good to
come out of your impending attack for either team.
It is therefore time to negotiate.
What can we give you to allow us to live quietly on our little peninsula?
Please take our offer seriously.
We believe that both of our teams have been outplayed and outsmarted by CoD.
Obviously they have promised a land of gold for your palace jump... clearly,
you can see our territory is just as bad as yours and probably even worse.
We on the other hand, were promised a 3 way tech alliance which was now an
obvious sham & lie to ensure we are relatively unprepared for war.
We have both been suckered in. CoD sist in a perfectly centralized position
on our continent, and make its two neighbors war on their behalf. We are
foolish to follow that path.
What we suggest is that Team Monkey submits fealty to Team Python. Allow us
to live on our peninsulas, and the rest of the continent is yours. Our
economy will be thrown open for your benefit.
This offer is made to your Team only. We see no need and have no desire to
give CoD anything.
We suspect there maybe a back stab from CoD in your future. They do have the
best position on this continent and do have a commanding Tech lead. If you
should decide to call this attack off we would be more than willing to
assist you in any possible action against the real enemy in the middle,
after all your army is right there, get the rest of the catapults from CoD
and just shift your forces.
Again, please take this offer seriously.
Given our poor territory start, we never believed ourselves capable of being
a superpower on our continent. Our plan was to always try to partner up with
Python and split the continent. I'm sure you began detecting that from our
latest PM's to your ambassadors. We are willing to offer just about anything
to stop this war.
We are willing to listen to any offers, demands or ultimatums.
Your willing servants
The Monkeys.
By the way until you actually attack us we still wish you some of the most
beautiful shrubberies you can imagine. " |
What do you think? My own opinion is that we demand that they leave the continent if they want to avoid war.
And, lastly, we will likely begin a revolution this upcoming turn (T102).
~Octavian X
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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:29
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To OctavianX:
quote:
Octavian,
Heya, I've just returned from my vacation, and find the war in progress, and a new contact (Tabemono) has been made. They've just met us, apparently on their turn, after ours.
Rigth, tech issues:
1) Barracks money for 4-point debt. Ok, sure. Consider that gone.
2) Mysticism. Ack, how a tech devalues. We would still like to be the supplier. Have you made any progress on buying Construction? Best case is that you can purchase it without a NDA restriction and sell it to us. Anyway, back to Mysticism... would you consider buying it from us for 48 gold?
3) Polytheism. We will finish this tech next turn. Clearly, we'd like to sell it to you as well. Dunno what to charge for it at this point, given that it too is known 'round the world, apparently.
4) Back to Construction. We (as in both teams) really need this tech! I was hoping Python could manage to buy it for the both of us by now, but I had a feeling it wasn't going to be that easy, since diplomacy in demogames can sometimes move at a truely glacial pace. Can you renew your attempts and keep us informed of the outcome? The sooner we get Construction, the sooner CoD can push ahead with Engineering research.
5) Warrior Code/HBR... I cannot recall if we ever actually came to any agreement on prices for those. I think we had figured they were going towards the price of Construction (along with Mysticism and Polytheism). As that whole structure has vanished with contact with LL & Tabemono, I guess a cash deal is best. It seems LL is going with editor cost * 12 as their pricing for devalued techs, which would mean 60g for HBR and 36g for WC. That sounds ok to me.
Next issue: we have connected our 2nd supply of silks, and I sent it to you accepted. Enjoy. I also sent your our worldmap. Best to keep up to date on such things.
Our main troop stack, such as it is, is now at Silkfest44 (next to your massive stack of doom). 6 horse, 1 sword, 1 spear and a settler. It is my intention to replace Mandril (Monkey abandoned) with that settler, while moving our troops southward to assist you.
I have little doubt Monkey are playing this smart and are going to turtle in their core. I hope our pillaging forces (currently at Siamang666) can disrupt that.
Next issue: contact/map trading issues...
Tabemono's note to us indicated they wanted to trade maps and they wanted contact with Monkey. Either they are making an educated guess, or someone told them we are in contact with Monkey. It is our intention to stall them on contact trading for now. I think we may want to coordinate policy on both contacts and maps. As it stands, we effectively have the same WM. Additionally, our WMs clearly show Monkey, and show ruins on the Monkey/CoD border. So I figure we might want to either stick to trading territory maps with other civs. What do you think? Additionally, the time is fast approaching when we will need to work out deals with LL and Tabemono concerning Monkey. Look at Monkey's diplomatic note to you guys! They will offer another team the moon to save their furry hides. Once they meet LL and/or Tabemono, we've got trouble. Any ideas on how to manage that?
Finally, regarding Monkey's message to you... I am amused they think it was CoD's idea to attack them. I also have this irrational urge to tell conmcb25 (who was my diplo contact on Monkey) it wasn't so. But I'll leave that to you, if you wish. Demanding they leave the continent... well, I can't imagine they would agree to that. Not until they've been well and truely crushed. And at that point, they will no doubt be negotiating with other teams for survival.
-Arrian |
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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:29
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New messages:
quote:
Arrian,
Welcome back! I hope your trip went well.
1. Sounds good to me. Glad we got that figured out.
2. 48g for Mysticism sounds good to me. I'd much rather we keep the gold on the continent rather than sending the gold to the other continent.
3. Again, we'll probably buy it from you, or at least work it out with Constrution.
4. I'll have Darekill talk to LL soon about Construction. They want 240g, I think, though I think we can talk them to a lower price consider our progess (14 turns left, I think).
5. Those sound like good prices.
Well, will this work out?
HBR = 5 (editor tech points)
WC = 3
Poly = 12
Total = 20
Construction = 20
For HBR, WC, and Polytheism, we'll give you guys Construction. That works out fairly in regard to tech points.
We'll also pay you guys 48g for Mysticism.
How does that sound?
Thanks for the silks. I'll send, accpted, our WM.
Mandril: sounds like a good plan to me. If CoD concentrates on the northern front (there was one other city up near Silkfest other than Bonobo and Mandril, IIRC), we'll at least have your front relatively secure as we continue the march south.
I'll probably slow down our march, so as to complete the war road. A few squares are left between the jungle our stack is currently and the road that once led to Bonobo.
As for other-continent diplomacy: I agree, the more we can keep those two out of our business, the better. I think our best route is to deny them WM/TM/contact trades, unless they sign with both of us an NDA that precludes them from interfering with continental affairs, trying our best not to mention the Monkey war.
I'm thinking, though, that they really won't be able to hurt us for some time, Monkey or no Monkey. I think it's obvious a naval invasion is almost impossible, at best, for the time being. Besides, GS will, I think, serve as the best detterent. This situation is almost the same as the last Bobian war. One nation tries to save another on another continent, despite the fact that the victim is being attacked by two allied civs. I bet it won't happen again.
As for Monkey, again, my inkling tells me that no one will really want to save them, and if someone did, they wouldn't be able to short of giving them territory on the other continent. Soon, we'll probably send them a short message of rejection, even if it is a bit humorous a la Monty Python.
~Octavian X
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quote:
Octavian,
It did, thanks.
WC+HBR+Poly for Construction sounds fine to me. Good luck to Darekill in his quest for the holy tech (or something like that) 
48g for Mysticism is a done deal then. Next time we get the save, we can send you Mysticism.
Regarding the war...
If I were you, I'd press ahead as fast as possible. Connecting the road is nice for reinforcements, but why slow up the main stack? Every turn of delay is a turn Monkey can use to dig in. It's your decision, of course, but my advice is Chhaaaarge!
CoD's troops are following behind you as best we can for now... once we get past the hills southwest of Silkfest I hope to get them alongside your forces, so that our horsemen can be used in tandem with your main stack. Additionally, it is my intent to bring our galleys around after having dropped off our pillaging force near Primate Central (I believe the drop-off date is T106), and have those ships transport some troops over to Monkey's island city.
Regarding somebody saving Monkey - I never meant direct military intervention. I meant what Lego did for Vox, what Vox did for Lux (briefly) and what GS did for RP. Gifting of a city or more so that the civ survives, vassalized. Granted, Monkey isn't scientific, so their vassal value is lower than Vox or Lux. It only makes sense if a civ has an area like Lego Minor or North Stormia that a pet civ can make productive for them. We will see, I guess...
-Arrian
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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:29
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Message to Octavian:
Octavian,
Something for us to discuss... CoD just received the following message from Tabemono:
quote:
Howdy Arrian,
This is both at once a private matter, but one that concerns the teams as well.
Reguarding the nature of trading maps, we certainly will agree to a territory-territory map trade, however, I am here to propose that it is in our best and fullest interest that we trade WORLD maps as well.
Can it be said what your team knows of your landmass?
I can tell you with no hesitation that we engineered a complete and full map trade with each of the other three nations on our continent. We are prepared to send you the most up to date map of this continent you could hope to achieve at this point. Surely you can see the value that this would present?
My best hope is that your team has an equally worthy map of your own continent, and that by sharing, we would each benefit mutually, and equally. Can you say what you know of your own continent then?
You have my personal assurance that you would NOT be on the short end if we agree to a WM for WM trade.
- UnOrthOdOx |
Here was my quick response:
quote:
UnO,
Thanks for this message.
First, I can say that yes, we do have a complete map of our continent (we are, after all, expansionist ). I will bring your offer back to my team for discussion (such as it is, there aren't many of us) and get back to you.
Though there may be benifits to trading maps, there are also potential drawbacks, as I'm sure you are aware. Secrecy, while it does not help build trust, can be a lifesaver in certain situations. So bear with me on this, ok? Don't get too annoyed if we ponder this one for a little while. If there is a delay, it is not the result of some animosity from my team to yours, but rather the result of caution (even if you may think it overcaution) on our part.
Thanks,
-Arrian |
I would like to see the rest of the world. However, the moment our world map goes out to the rest of the world, they will see ruins in Monkeyland and our secret war will be secret no longer. Plus, it's possible the map may assist the other teams in making contact with Monkey earlier than they otherwise would. Finally, the map would display our continent's lack of iron for all the world to see, which might in time prove fatal.
What do you think?
-Arrian
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Mountain Sage
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I believe we should stall as long as possible. Maybe our war will stay 'secret'. But most of all, I'd prefer not having another civ involved, one way or another, with 'our' war.
Further, as long as our continent is not settled, there is the possibility of another civ traying to get a beachhead.
Iron doesen't bother me that much, since we should go the 'lower branch' to get Saltpeter asap. Python could then go for the 'high branch'.
BTW, did we discuss with Python about GW? Do we try to split them or it's the first who grabs them who wins? In this case, we should think about a pre-built for Sun or Leo well ahead.
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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:29
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More messages:
quote:
Arrian,
In response to your first message:
Good news. We'll be sending you 48g this turn.
Concerning your military advice: I hadn't factored the possibiliy of even greater Monkey forces, really. We'll complete the road, but we won't make the main force wait. A spear will just babysit the workers for the moment.
In regard to Tabejin's message...
Definetly, the more hidden we keep Monkey from the rest of the world, the better. Just keep an eye on their galleys - I'm pretty sure that both LL and Tamebono's galleys are going northward. We should make those deals when they get close to Monkey territory.
Because of the iron situation, WMs are out of the question entirely. We definetly don't want them to know about our lack of iron, so if we can keep the continent hidden for the most part, we're in better shape.
BTW, I'm chatting with Uno and Kloreep of Tamebono as I type. They've offered us contact with MAST and Sunshine for contact with Monkey. I'm still acting on the assumption that Monkey's contact shouldn't be traded as long as possible, so the stalling continues.
On Construction: An NDA with Sunshine prevents them from selling construction, and that NDA expires one turn before we'd discover construction ourselves. Darekill has sent a message to LL asking 300g for Construction w/o an NDA.
~Octavian X
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quote:
Octavian,
UnO has been pestering me nonstop about map trading, and has now switched over to contact trading. He offered the same deal to us - MAST + Sunshine for Monkey.
If the galleys are positioned such that contact with Monkey without a trade is a long way off for Tabemono, then I agree we should refuse to trade maps and contacts, and throw everything we have into trying to destroy Monkey. This comes at a price, of course. We won't get to see the rest of the world, and our research costs will remain higher than they otherwise would (assuming that SS and MAST have techs we don't, which I think is a fair assumption to make). Additionally, the other teams will think us annoyingly secretive.
I wish there was a way to trade maps with the resources wiped off.
Keep us informed of Darekill's progress on Construction. Thanks!
-Arrian |
Let's see where those galleys are. We might have more time than we think.
Additionally, the galley we are going to rush on the west coast can sail south, and attempt to intercept any Monkeycraft sailing north.
-Arrian
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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:29
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quote:
Arrian,
The blockade was just one of the many random ideas that make up my mind. 
Still, though, sea defenses to take out Monkey ships, especially those that may contain troops, are a good idea.
No, we've not attacked Monkey troops. IIRC, we're still at an in-game state of peace. The more we can avoid WW, the better.
And, the construction plans sound good.
~Octavian X
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quote:
Octavian,
Really? You're still at peace? Hmm. Well, I guess they just declared war on us then. Works for me - positive WW.
We plan to land our pillage force at Orangutan3 next turn. We had originally planned on Primate Central 96, but changed our minds.
We saw neither LL nor Tabemono's galleys last turn. I recall you saying they were sailing north. If that's true, I think we might really have a shot at wiping Monkey out before they meet anybody. *crosses fingers*
-Arrian
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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:29
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To Octavian:
quote:
Octavian,
Thanks for Construction & the WM. Polytheism and our WM have been sent in return.
CoD has set research for Engineering, due in 14 turns, running a 15gpt deficit. Our support costs are pretty high. Does Python wish to split the cost of our research 50/50, or do you want to do your own research and trade techs?
I can push our tech rate faster, but CoD would need money from Python. If you are going to do your own research, I'm not going to go past -15gpt.
FYI - Tabemono galley sighted at New Plymouth12. We just completed a galley in N. Plymouth, and we *could* get just in front of their galley, but we will be unable to block them with just 1 ship. Additionally, it is possible that we could find and sink a Monkey galley sailing north (that is if they're even doing that) before contact was made with Tabemono, but the chances aren't good. Monkey moves before us, and even if we find their galley first and manage to attack, we would have to sink it in 1-on-1 combat... the odds of which are ~45% if their galley is also a regular.
I'm actually holding off finishing our turn while we decide whether to sail south, or westward in search of MAST & SS.
-Arrian |
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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:29
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New messages...
quote:
Arrian,
Sorry, I'm running low on time. I'll repond to your previous message soon.
In the mean time, this image should speak for itself:
http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=17342_450BarbProb.JPG
Any suggestions on a course for action would be nice. Note that I've not moved any units, and that we do enter a republic next turn.
My initial instinct is to contact CoD and 'deposit' all our gold with them, but that brings me to a concern, involving the Republic. How will the game structure work itself out? If we empty out our bank now, will we have the gold next turn to pay for the 80g+ troop and building maintainence costs?
~Octavian X
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quote:
My first instinct is the same as yours: give us your gold to hold, but your question is a good one... I honestly don't know what will happen with the support costs. It's possible you get 1 turn of grace, but I don't know for sure. You could simulate it out (pain in the butt, I know).
The maximum you're gonna get hit for this coming turns is 2 thefts. You could work out your total bill (unit support + building upkeep) and make sure you have that much, plus say a 50g cushion, and give the rest to us.
Other advice (probably just stating the obvious):
Move everything you've got north (the spears, the warriors, everything). Your northern city with the regular warrior *might* hold. He's fortified on a hill, and this being regent you have a pretty solid barb fighting bonus. The barb horsemen can only move 1 tile per turn because of the terrain, which gives you time to get your troops into position.
I'd keep your guys on roads until the 2nd wave of barbs commit towards one city or the other (far north, or east). Luckily for you, both of those towns are on hills.
I wish CoD had troops that could assist, but IIRC our next wave of horseman production is 2 turns away.
-Arrian |
Anybody know the answer to his question for sure?
-Arrian
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21-02-2004 00:12
enjoy the march south. On the tech trades, we would definitely like to be supplying you Mysticism, probably as part of a larger package. There's no point in sending money out of the alliance for a tech we already have. Arrian should be back tomorrow - he can remind us what the plan for Mysticism was.
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