02-09-2003 19:32									#91
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quote: Wittlich: 3 Workers south of Hope built road through forest. The other 2 Workers clearing forest for shield harvest.

Should have used all five to chop the forest. They would have done it in one turn. Next turn two workers could have built the road and three to mine it. It takes longer to build the road in the forest so I chop first. Now those two workers will continue to chop next turn and one more will be needed to complete. That will leave two for the mine whichwill not finish in one turn. I thiink the mine will now be ready a turn after Hope grows, instead of on the same turn. In two turns three workers will be able to move so the stack will become separated.

quote: Beta: May I recommend for next turn that we get a mine on one of the tiles dajacent to Hope. It expands this turn and can use the shield production. Also - how do folks feel about rushing the marketplace in the New Voice. 188 gold, but it will increase the tax revenue. Or - would we rather hold off and rush either Hope's granary, or a harbour.

Mine: As I responded above to Witt by roading the forest first it will cause the mine to be completed a turn late. If we pull out those three that roaded the forest to make a mine we can do it next turn, at a cost of increasing our worker turns lost to inefficiency. At some point we will want to plant and chop forest on every grassland so any mine we put down will be lost later. It will also further delay in getting the tiles for Renewal improved. So, the question is do we want to use those workers now to create a mine so we have a mined grassland one turn early?

Rushing: Keep in mine that we want to rush a library in Memory as soon as it completes its harbor. I know that is some time off, but it will be quicker once the mine is completed on the horse hill. We might have enough time to rush something else and have our income produce enough money in time for the library. I will try to get some time tonight to run some calculations.

If we rush anything, I do not want to rush Hope. It still has a lot of grassland tiles that can be forested and chopped. We have the workers available so we might as well use them. I would rather rush in places that do not have the possibility of chopping forest. Places such as Irony, Poortown, and Memory. Memory is a good place because once it gets access to that whale it will be our fastest growing coastal city. We could rush a harbor there and then as soon as we get enough money we could rush the library too. Another option is to switch Memory to a library and rush it so it can expand to the whale, then go back to the build the harbor and rush it when we get the money.

	02-09-2003 21:52									#92
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Harry - I concur on both counts. Around hope, let's delay the mine and do the plant and cut thing. We need the shield production.

Also - Yes - no rushing in either the New Voice or Hope. That was the same conclusion that I had come to. The production-limited coastal cities need the rushes much more.

I think it should be Memory - and you may recall our earlier discussion on this regarding whether we go with library or harbour first. The library would be 128 gold, and yes - it will give access shortly to the whale tile which is 2 food, 1 shield, and 4 gold. This, along with two mined hill tiles should produce good shield output and lots of cash to get us a good way to finishing the harbour.

So, my opinion on this switches once again - back to library. What do you think?

	06-09-2003 02:00									#93
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It looks like the delays this week will cause the next turn to come after I am gone for the weekend. Here is info for playing the next turn.

Workers south of Hope: Two workers will be carrying over their chop forest task. Use one more to finish chopping the forest. Another to start a mine. The last one moves NW one tile and starts planting a forest in the roaded grassland. I know this looks strange but it works out to keep from wasting worker turns with the way the game carries over work.

Worker NE of Hope: Move NE to shielded grassland where it will start a road next turn.

Worker W of Renewal: Should finish the road this turn.

The worker on the hill between Hope and The New Voice should be close to finishing the mine. I think he has one turn to go.

Workers on horse hill: All three start a mine.

Worker on plains: Start a road.

Someone should contact Lego about getting Astronomy (probably needs to be done in two deals with Education first). Astronomy will allow our gallies to expand their exploration area.


See ya on Monday.

Edit: Change Memory to a library and rush it (unless there are disagreements in the discussion thread on this). Check the laborer in the city. With the rush we do not need shield production for this turn so check the horse hill and the coast to see which one generates more commerce and use it.

If we rush someone needs to contact GoW to let them know that we spent our cash and future requests for investigations will require payment up front.

	06-09-2003 03:22									#94
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Harry - understood. Witt or I will comply.

	06-09-2003 03:28									#95
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I'll be gone much of this weekend, but in the future I might be able to take some of the weekend duties. Assuming Beta or Witt doesn't get to the save first. I still don't have as much time as I used to, but I had originally thought I was going to cut off most all my Civ3 time and that certainly didn't happen.

	07-09-2003 06:11									#96
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I have the 210ad save and am playing.

	07-09-2003 06:32									#97
	Inflate your Upload Space

210ad turn played.

quote: Originally posted by HarryH It looks like the delays this week will cause the next turn to come after I am gone for the weekend. Here is info for playing the next turn. Workers south of Hope: Two workers will be carrying over their chop forest task. Use one more to finish chopping the forest. Another to start a mine. The last one moves NW one tile and starts planting a forest in the roaded grassland. I know this looks strange but it works out to keep from wasting worker turns with the way the game carries over work. Worker NE of Hope: Move NE to shielded grassland where it will start a road next turn. Worker W of Renewal: Should finish the road this turn. The worker on the hill between Hope and The New Voice should be close to finishing the mine. I think he has one turn to go. Workers on horse hill: All three start a mine. Worker on plains: Start a road. Someone should contact Lego about getting Astronomy (probably needs to be done in two deals with Education first). Astronomy will allow our gallies to expand their exploration area. See ya on Monday. Edit: Change Memory to a library and rush it (unless there are disagreements in the discussion thread on this). Check the laborer in the city. With the rush we do not need shield production for this turn so check the horse hill and the coast to see which one generates more commerce and use it. If we rush someone needs to contact GoW to let them know that we spent our cash and future requests for investigations will require payment up front.

All done. Here is the screen print.

http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Beta/Vox-210ad.JPG

The library rush in Memory cost 120 gold.

We have 78 in the treasury and are at +9 gpt.

Printing Press in 27 turns.

Did not move our galleys any further south into Lego territory. Discovered as many sea tiles as possible, but I do not think Lego will appreciate us heading any further south.

Will take care of the FA stuff tomorrow morning.

....Beta.

	07-09-2003 10:49									#98
	Put an end to popups!

Quick question on that topic...why has Lego not been willing to disclose their maps to anyone? Is it just because of the tactical issues inherent in keeping people from knowing what they have, or is it something else?

	07-09-2003 17:09									#99
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I'm assuming it is the former. Although - being on an island continent - I'm not sure what they are so worried about.

	12-09-2003 17:30									#100
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230ad played. Man this game is getting slow.

http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Beta/Vox-230ad.JPG

Mine built for Hope and citizen is working it. Forest planted for chopping next turn.

Worker near renewal mining.

Worker NE of Hope is building a road.

Memory's Library built. Harbour in 27 turns.

87 gold and plus 10 per turn.

Moving galleys toward Memory/Seabiscuit for eventual upgrade. Not much else to explore - and we should not be wading into Lego territory.

	12-09-2003 19:06									#101
	Got spare money?

You beat me to it. I was going to play the turn this morning. The worker near Renewal should have started a forest, not a mine. The mine will be ripped up shortly to plant and chop a forest. I guess I should be posting more info in case someone else plays the turn.

I see The New Voice has grown.

Last turn GoW completed Leonardo's Workshop.

	13-09-2003 04:04									#102
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Ack - you are right. Sorry. I was thinking carefully about each move - figuring OK, I think Harry will approve. And then I saw your post and said to myself - "Self, what did you miss?". Planting forests as we are doing is just not something I do regularly in games - so while I made sure we are doing the right thing aroud Hope, I missed Renewal.

	17-09-2003 10:57									#103
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250 AD turn played

One of the workers on the forest tile near Hope moved to the grassland next to Renewal to complete the mine, cutting the time to build the harbor in half. Three other workers near Hope moved to the hill tile to start a mine. They will complete it next turn so the new citizen when Renewal grows next turn will be able to use it. Two other workers started chopping the forest. The worker on the shielded grassland completed the road. Three workers on horse hill moved to gold hill. Worker on plains moved to forest next to Phoenix where he will start a road next turn.

Set all galleys to move towards the Seabuscuit/Memory area.

Moved the veteran immortal next to Phoenix north. Plan to have him take up position somewhere on the east coast.

The regular pikeman arrived in Phoenix. Set him up to fortify. Moved the veteran pikeman out of the city and set him to go to Panama Vox.

Treasury at 97 gold and +10 gpt. Printing Press in 25 turns.

Voxtavia: http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Ha...tavia_250AD.JPG
Panama: http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Ha...anama_250AD.JPG

	18-09-2003 00:36									#104
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Looks good Harry.

I assume you're sending the galleys to the Memory area in case we do go ahead with the GS deception.

	18-09-2003 09:13									#105
	Put an end to popups!

The GS plan or the deception. Either way we will be upgrading our galleys. I need to get back to work on it.

	18-09-2003 09:23									#106
	Remove this text

We'll know more when we find out what they are willing to give us. If we're going with the deception we should make it at least look good by sending eight or so units on the galleys if possible. Now that we have our cities encompassing most of Voxtavia we shouldn't have to worry about barbs except from the south. That will mean we can use many of our current units for the "attack".

	20-09-2003 00:53									#107
	Inflate your Upload Space

I am heading out for the weekend. I just purchased a new fifth wheel RV today so we get to try it out this weekend. It's been a busy week. Now the fun starts.


I expect the turn to arrive while I am gone. I will be back Monday morning and can play then if needed.

Info for turn:

3 workers on hill near Hope should complete mine this turn.

2 workers on forest next to Hope will still be chopping. Move one of the workers on grassland next to Renewal to the forest to complete the chop.

1 worker on shielded grassland start planting a forest. Move the other worker next to Renewal here to help plant forest.

Three workers on gold hill start a mine.

Worker in forest next to Phoenix start a road. Move Phoenix laborer to this tile so it will get the commerce when the road completes.

Check that the new citizen in Renewal is working the hill and move if necessary. This should cut the time to build the harbor in half again, more if there is no shield waste. I am expecting one waste.

When I get back I will put up my proposal for the possible invasion of Bob or deception for discussion.

	20-09-2003 01:06									#108
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Harry. Enjoy!!

Instructions received and understood. I am away from my computer for a bit of time this weekend, but generally will be here.

	20-09-2003 01:49									#109
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I'll be working a bit this weekend (extra time - 16 acre site project due Monday ), but if I get home and see that it hasn't been played yet I can play it too if necessary.

	21-09-2003 07:59									#110
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Turn received. I'll go ahead and play it since no one else is here right now.

	21-09-2003 08:21									#111
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Turn 260 played

I used all of Harry's recommendations. We currently have 107 gold, 12 gpt, and Printing Press in 24 turns.

The New Voice increased it's culture radius. Memory will increase it's radius next turn so we'll be able to use the whale tile and shuffle around the current cities using mined hills to allow Hope to use the one The New Voice is currently using. I haven't run any numbers on it, but this would speed up the granary build and slow immediate growth. That is of course assuming Harry was going to delay Hope's growth a bit to allow the granary to be built before it grows.

Voxtavia
Status of Bob

	21-09-2003 08:35									#112
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Okay I just did a little test on Hope. Even accounting for the three food tiles Hope will gain by the beginning of next turn, if we switch the citizen on the fish to the mined hill that New Voice is currently working for five turns, then switch back to the fish for one turn to complete the granary, and then switch back to the hill to fill up the last food box while giving the extra shields to the next project. The granary will be completed before the population increase and we'll receive that benefit right away. Hope would take about four turns longer to grow than with the current set up, but we'd start it's next growth period with the granary benefit.

This hill can be worked after moving New Voice's citizen to the hill Seabiscuit is working, Seabiscuit's citizen to the horse hill, and Memory's citizen to the whale since it will have access to the whale next turn. This also allows Memory to grow a little quicker and when it does the gold hill mine should be finished for it's second citizen to work.

Last edited by Rhothaerill on 21-09-2003 at 08:45

	22-09-2003 00:58									#113
	Remove this text

I like it.

	22-09-2003 02:32									#114
	Suffering from ads?

I like it also. I think Rhoth's plan is a good one too.

	22-09-2003 12:11									#115
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Thanks guys. What do you think Harry?

	23-09-2003 19:44									#116
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Sorry to be away yesterday. Interesting events. Just got home. On way to to work. Will post more tonight.

Re Hope: Need to also check what happens when more forests are chopped. In the next few turns Hope should get the benefit of one and possibly two more chops.

Resurrection should be using the gold hill so it's not available to Memory.

	23-09-2003 22:17									#117
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I thought all the forest chopping around Hope had already been done as most of it is already mined. If there is more to be chopped then that will obviously change my plan a bit. I was working out my plan based on not having any more chops available and getting maximum benefit from the hill tiles we already have improved.

As to the gold hill, that's fine, I was just thinking Memory could use it when it grew to size 2, but it doesn't make any difference for my plan. Once the granary is built, the whole mined hill shift I was talking about can go back to what it is currently. Memory can use the whale tile for the few turns I was talking about because it's culture radius grows next turn.

	23-09-2003 23:52									#118
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

The shield tile still needs to be chopped. It could go to either Hope or Renewal. The grassland between Hope and the shield tile also needs to be chopped. So far we have chopped only two tiles near Hope. The grassland next to Renewal also needs to be chopped.

	23-09-2003 23:58									#119
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Okay. I wasn't positive of what has and hasn't been chopped yet, but I had assumed most it had been done. Harry, maybe you can take a look tonight to see how soon a chop will be completed vs. the plan I had for getting the granary before the growth. If it can be done quicker then by all means do so.

	24-09-2003 19:39									#120
	Got spare money?

I checked over Roth's plan for Hope. We can get one forest chopped before the granary build. If we did two we would waste shields. Next turn we chop the shielded grassland. If it goes to Hope then we wait on the other grassland until the granary is completed. If the shielded grassland chop goes to Renewal then we plant and chop the other grassland tile.

Modified plan for Hope: Continue using the fish through turn 280 AD. At the start of turn 290 AD Hope will have accumulated 17 food and 52 shields (including 10 from a forest chop). Switch citizen from fish to mined hill (moving citizens in other cities as Roth said). In two more turns it will complete the granary. The following turn it will grow and have 4 shields towards the next project. This growth will occur two turns later than the city currently shows but it will have the benefit of the granary. The chopping of the forest moves this up two turns earlier than Roth figured.