08-10-2003 11:54									#151
	Increase Your PM Length

I can't post new threads here though

when are we going to have a turn again?

JM

	08-10-2003 20:51									#152
	Suffering from ads?

Things are sorta messed up right now, both on Apolyton and with the game. I saw a message in the save game thread from Aggie about a bug. No details.

	08-10-2003 21:09									#153
	Increase the size of your Attachments

It has something to do with a ROP that only affects one side. They're trying to figure it out, but the game is effectively on hold until it's solved.

	09-10-2003 05:03									#154
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller I and Ming have had several PMs it is until such a time as I admit that I am a troublemaker and he is certain that I will not continue to be a problem Jon miller

Well jon, maybe one of us can write Ming and admit that you are a troublemaker. Would that help?

j/k

	10-10-2003 08:45									#155
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I Am out

Jon Miller

	10-10-2003 09:26									#156
	Support Apolyton

Congrats on your newly found freedom Jon!

	10-10-2003 12:51									#157
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

thANKS

jON mILLER

	13-10-2003 01:11									#158
	Increase Your PM Length

the bug hasn't been resolved?

	13-10-2003 03:22									#159
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Nope. I believe we're in a holding pattern.

	15-10-2003 06:46									#160
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller thANKS jON mILLER

The caps lock is the third key up on the left.

Or - there IS another beer in the fridge.



Welcome back frim exile, Jon.

	17-10-2003 16:51									#161
	Increase Your PM Length

Replayed 280ad turn as per Rhoth's moves. Sent to Lego.

	20-10-2003 11:47									#162
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

so should I start coming back here again?

Jon Miller

	20-10-2003 16:38									#163
	Inflate your Upload Space

Looks like it is back on, jon. So yup.

whoever plays the next turn, please see the GoW FA thread. They would like a pic of Pamplona taken this turn. However, they will pay us next turn. We can afford it, so I said OK.

	21-10-2003 21:06									#164
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Bump - with a reminder about the Pamplona city investigation for GoW this turn.

I am working late tonight, and it is still not clear when the RP save will arrive.

	22-10-2003 08:44									#165
	Tired of ads?

290ad played. Sorry guys - I did not realize you had not received the save until I posted in the Save Game Thread and saw your note Rhoth in the commentray thread.

Sent the save to Harry and Rhoth and con.

I had a crummy day at work - which went until past 10pm tonight. And then there was added frustrations with this turn.

First:

http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Be...vestigation.JPG

Not enough gold to do the investigation. We were 11 short. I will contact GoW.

Second - the forest we were going to cut is outside of a city territory, and we would lose the shields. So, they moved to forst the currently mined tile outside of renewal. It had not yet been forested. So - we have to rebuild the mine - but we get the 10 shields. Final tile mined outside of Hope. Next turn, when hope grows, we can re-arrange workers and get 3 shield production. Now if we boost it to 3, you lose one to corruption so right back where we started.

Marketplace finished in NV next turn.

Workers outside of memory moved noth to mne and road another hill tile, which we will need shortly.

The lone worker near the sw city (cannot recall the name) - did not make sense to cut the forest as he would be done in 5 when the library is only two away - waste of shields. So moved him to road and/or mine until he can move back and have the 10 shields applied to the new build.

Here is the pic:

http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Beta/Vox-290ad.JPG

	22-10-2003 08:55									#166
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Wait, how did the forested tile get moved out of the city boundaries? In the 280ad turn I played I forested the tile 9 of Hope not 9-9. The 9-9 tile was already forested and then chopped previously with the shields going to Renewal. Also Hope isn't going to get the granary before going up to level 3 now. Oh well, not a big deal.

	23-10-2003 01:04									#167
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Its too bad the move did not work out as planned, but its not that big of a deal. The problem is due to the game bug and delay and all the posts that got put into this moves thread. I will take a look at the game in the next day or two and see where we go from here.

	26-10-2003 12:09									#168
	300ad Turn Orders And A New Plan Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Just in case we receive the turn before Harry has a chance to give orders I'm going to put my 2 cents in.

First the easy orders. The 3 workers near Resurrection and the one near Phoenix will start roading. The marketplace in New Voice will be completed and I propose building a library next. New Voice has 8spt so that is a 5 turn build and gives Irony the continued benefit of both grass tiles for those turns to get it's harbor a little quicker. I'm also going to send a message to GoW informing them that we can spy on Pamplona for them this turn, though we'd prefer the cash upfront (the save is still in their hands as I type this).

Regarding Hope, we have two choices. We can have Hope build the granary without the benefit of the last chop, but we still have a two turn window to get the chop in before it becomes worthless for the granary...meaning we'd have to have some workers stick around in the area for nine turns before they could plant and chop the last tile in it's radius. Therefore I've created a plan that will not only get Hope it's last chop but will actually help out Renewal as well by saving it some shields and ensuring that we can spend our gold rushing a harbor in Memory.

So next turn (300ad) have the three workers on the Hope tile forest it and have two of the workers near Renewal join them to complete a forest. The other three workers aren't really necessary up there any more so I'd say send them toward the Seabiscuit area to start the chopping process for the harbor.

On turn 310ad we complete the chop at Hope which leaves us needing 2 shields. We can either eat the one shield loss (Hope will be producing 3spt once it grows at 300ad) or switch one of the WF to coast and gain a gold while eating a food.

On turn 320ad the five workers will chop the forest near Renewal. That city has had the benefit of the forest for several turns so by the time the chop is done it will require only 20 shields to get the harbor built. This is the tricky part because after the chop is finished that tile is a simple grassland and we'd only be getting 3spt instead of 4spt so I would move that WF to the gold hill for one turn. That not only provides us with 4spt, but also gives us 2 extra gold for the turn though it does create one food shortage point, but the city can handle it.

On turn 330ad, three of the workers will mine the grassland tile again and the WF can return to that tile as it will have 4spt again.

Basically this plan will complete Hope's granary in 3 turns instead of 9, and Renewal's harbor in 8 turns instead of 9, while completing all the rest of the chops in north Voxtavia. From then on our workers will only have the last forest tile currently out of city boundaries (and won't give a shield bonus as it has already been chopped once) to chop and mine, and we can start getting them all down to the south unless we want to mine the gold mountains.

Last edited by Rhothaerill on 26-10-2003 at 13:05

	26-10-2003 18:36									#169
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Rhoth . I was thinking along similar lines, but did not have the details down pat. So - whoever plays the turn (myself included )should follow this approach.

	28-10-2003 05:48									#170
	Got spare money?

Big Free has sent the save on to us. I intend to play it within the next two or three hours and implement my plans unless someone else has anything to add or change.

	28-10-2003 07:25									#171
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Nope - go for it Rhoth. By the way - I received this quick note with the save from BF:

"Please help the poor Spanish. Thanks"

	28-10-2003 10:13									#172
	300ad Turn Played Got spare money?

Turn began with Glory of War offering half of the price of the investigation of Pamplona. Accepted and moved on. Performed the investigation and took 2 shots as there were 2 units that did not show up on the first pass. The second Pamplona shot shows those units. I will PM GoW with the links to the uploaded files as soon as I write this.

On Voxtavia I performed all the moves I had talked about in the turn orders thread above. We currently have 90 gold with 23gpt and will research Printing Press in 20 turns. Glory of War owes us 83 gold still for our investigation (plus the luxuries when we deem we need them). Memory will grow next turn but it will have to work an unmined hill for two turns.

On the Bob front, RP and GS are still holding their own with the few cities. With any luck they are making it bloody for GoW and ND. The longer those four teams are at each other's throats, the better for Lego and us. I have no idea what BigFree's help request was about.

I will write up some turn orders for turn 310 and post them soon.


GoW payment
Pamplona 1
Pamplona 2
Voxtavia
Panama Vox
The War

	28-10-2003 10:40									#173
	Turn Orders for 310ad Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Five workers NE (keypad 9) of Hope will chop forest. Work force to move to the two mined grassland tiles as well as the fish tile. I just realized I miscounted by one shield in my plan because of the waste so the granary will not be built in 320ad, but in 330ad...still well before the new city growth though.

Three workers SE (keypad 3) of Resurrection will mine the hill.

Three workers NW (keypad 7) of The New Voice will move 2-3-3 onto the unroaded hill in preparation to road it next turn. This will eventually provide an extra mined hill for NV/Seabiscuit area.

	01-11-2003 12:51									#174
	310ad Turn Played Suffering from ads?

The turn was played almost exactly like my turn orders. The only differenct was that since Memory grew to level 2, and the unmined hill tile it was on ended up with the shield going to waste I changed the workforce to coast to grab an extra gold. That should change in two turns when we have another hill mined.

Glory of War has not paid us the remainder of the 83 gold they owe us, but I didn't really expect them to. It will probably take them a few turns to get the gold back in their coffers.

The war on Bob has taken an interesting turn. Pamplona still stands, but both New Madrid and Toledo are in GS's hands. I wonder if that means Roleplay felt they couldn't hold the cities or if they did it to warp units to Pamplona quickly for defense next turn.

We have 113 gold plus 25gpt and an IOU of 83 gold from GoW. Printing Press in 19 turns.

I will post turn orders for 320ad very soon.

Voxtavia
The War

	01-11-2003 12:57									#175
	320ad Turn Orders Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Five workers near Hope will move 3-6 and chop forest that is SW (keypad 1) of Renewal. Work force that was working that tile will be moved to the gold mountain to maintain 4 shields per turn.

3 workers on the hill near The New Voice will mine.

That will be it as all other workers are currently in the middle of tasks. No other workforce orders will be needed.

Last edited by Rhothaerill on 02-11-2003 at 02:11

	02-11-2003 02:00									#176
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Once we get that gold from GoW we should have enough to rush the harbor in Memory. I hope they don't take too long.

As soon as Hope finishes the granary it should start a settler so we can found our last city.

I wonder if GS needs more places to heal units quickly. Whatever the reason, they sure are taking advantage of city trades in this war.

	02-11-2003 02:19									#177
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

If GoW doesn't get the gold to us within the next turn or two I'll send them a note requesting our gold soon. If they aren't able to pay for a while what about requesting gpt from them? I'm not averse to that.

I agree about the settler Harry. I just changed the worker orders of the three workers near New Voice to mine the hill before roading it. That way we can switch the New Voice work force on the hill near Hope so Hope can have that hill and 4spt (after waste) instead of 2spt and still maintain two food growth per turn. The settler can be built in 8 turns this way after the granary (the last turn we can move work force around to avoid shield waste). Or if we sacrifice some city growth the settler can be built in six turns by taking the Hope workforce from the fish tile. I'd prefer not to do that though. The settler isn't necessary enough to sacrifice a lot of growth for two extra turns.

	02-11-2003 02:25									#178
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

One more thing we should think about is when to rush the harbor in Irony. If the harbor is rushed then Irony can start growing without the use of the mined grassland near New Voice. If New Voice has access to those grasses then it can grow to size 5 which will give a very-nice-to-have 10spt with the three grasses and two mined hills.

	02-11-2003 13:51									#179
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I just played around with some numbers, and it would cost 244 gold next turn to rush the harbor in Memory. So even if we received the gold from GoW we wouldn't be able to rush for a few more turns. However I did some thinking and after the mine is completed near Memory it's SPT will jump to four making the harbor easier to build. So I have a plan to put forth for general consumption. My proposal is that our first harbor rush be in Irony instead of Memory. On the turn before the library in New Voice is about to be built we rush the harbor in Irony (it should cost 144 gold at the time). The next turn both will be built and we can switch Irony's workforce to the coast tiles. This will bump it down to 1spt for a time while building a library, but it can grow to size 4 moderately quickly and become a 3spt city again (working the currently unmined iron mountain, 4spt when it's mined) with more gold. Meanwhile New Voice will work the two mined grassland tiles to grow to size 4 (in eight turns after the library and the city will have 4spt at the time) and then we can join a worker to the city to immediately bump it to size 5 and 10spt. This gives us a lot of flexibility in building projects and prevents shield waste. If we want to start building our military again this will give us 3 turn horsemen (after a barracks build for vets) for eventual upgrade to knights and cavs. The only problem I foresee with this plan is that we'll have to go to 10% on the lux slider as we'll have some unhappy citizens with a size 5 city. But Hope will need the 10% lux soon anyway when it grows, so it's not that big of a problem.

Within 7 turns from now, assuming GoW pays us the 83 gold, we should have enough to rush Memory's harbor too so it really won't be that far behind. Basically my plan causes Memory to be 5 turns behind the first possible date for rushing, but it gives Irony it's harbor and New Voice the chance to get to 10spt quicker in exchange for that.

Last edited by Rhothaerill on 02-11-2003 at 14:18

	02-11-2003 14:16									#180
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

The New Voice's build queue also needs to be discussed soon as we will need to make a choice after the library. We can either build a happiness improvement (temple or colosseum) or a barracks to start improving our military. I'd rather build military than a happiness improvement since most of our cities won't grow past size 6 for a long time and New Voice won't grow past size 5 until railroads (size 7 being it's absolute cap). A 10% luxury rate in a republic can handle all the unhappiness problems for a while. Plus we also have GoW's luxury that they owe I believe 60 turns to us. Once we have our first harbor up we can make use of it if necessary. If we go with my plan we will have 8 turns of 4spt in New Voice and then if we join the worker immediately it will have 10spt and complete a barracks the next turn after.

For build queues in other cities, the ones that are currently building harbors should all start marketplaces, except for Irony and Renewal which should start libraries to expand their borders. Renewal will give the bonus grass under what is currently forest and also giving Resurrection a fourth coast tile as well to enable it to get to size 6. Phoenix should start a harbor next. And Hope will of course be the breadbasket to supply the final settler and the workers to join other cities. At some point the city will need a harbor too.

With current borders, and border expansions in Renewal, Irony and Phoenix, all of our northern cities will be able to grow to size 6 except New Voice which will always be stuck at size 5 until railroads. Our new city when it is settled will also be able to grow to size 6, though Panama Vox will be a pathetic city for a long time.

After all the cities are at size 6 and if work force is done the way I envision it, Hope, Resurrection, Seabiscuit, Phoenix and the new city will have 5spt (from working four coast tiles and two mined hill tiles with two waste or in Hope's case one mined hill and several mined grassland). Memory should have 6spt because of the extra whale shield, but I'm not positive if waste would take it. Renewal should have 8spt after waste (two mined hills, one mined bonus grass, and one mined grass), but it might have 7; again I'm not positive. Irony should have 4spt after waste (iron mountain and the rest coast). Panama Vox can also get up to 4spt (after waste) in theory, but it would require a harbor and library and not using a citizen as a scientist.

Last edited by Rhothaerill on 02-11-2003 at 14:22