03-09-2003 11:55									#211
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We all need a little Social Distortion.

	03-09-2003 14:24									#212
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quote: Originally posted by st_swithin Who says it didn't? :|

Certainly not me, it's your flashback. If you want to leave it all you have to do is turn down the voice effects and cue the organist.

	03-09-2003 15:00									#213
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quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion Lori, why do you need anti depressant if you have a girlfriend?

What happens in your life doesn't necessarily affect your mood. I can feel happy at the worst times, when I've had bad news, and feel awful when I've had great news and *should* be happy. Also, the stresses of having a partner can aid depressive feelings in some people, especially if things are not going well, as it can lead to a feeling of worthlessness. Having a girlfriend could be a sign that he is probably coping, as relationships rarely work when one partner isn't coping with depression, but it does not necessarily make him any less depressed.

quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion some people are just self-pitying... you guys can be successfuk at everything and still cry for help / use anti depressants

Sometimes being successful, or the pressure to be, can make someone depressed. A feeling of not living up to expectations, to past standards, can lead to a depressive feeling. While maybe some are self-pitying, the rest of your post shows a lack of understanding of the nature and manifestation of depression to some people. Depression is hard to characterize, and though you may feel like that, others depressions may manifest themselves in different ways. I would not be so quick to judge others feelings. Someone who cries out a lot may be self-pitying, or they may just be someone in more pain.

	03-09-2003 15:48									#214
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ecth:
sometimes it's chemical.

look at me. what the fcuk do i have to be sad about? i was going to a good school, had a good family, a girlfriend, a bright future. i had friends, i had food and i had shelter.

i couldn't leave my dorm room during the darker times. you know what made it worse? the knowledge that i had nothing to feel sad about.

it's funny, that sometimes during depression one gets a lot of clarity. really, in perpective, you're not that bad off. really, in perspective, if you died, the world would move on. really, in perspective, even if you are in a privileged position, you don't mean a damn thing.

why do you think nihilism all too often as a dark beauty for those mired in depression?

	03-09-2003 16:31									#215
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bla bla bla

guys like you make me sick

do you realize that all my unhappiness is YOUR fault?

	03-09-2003 16:37									#216
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next you'll be tellin me I'm not depressed but just a loser

	03-09-2003 16:50									#217
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I wonder if we had these drugs earlier whether Nietzsche might have gone on to even greater things. His Nihilism could have been developed so much further IMHO.

	03-09-2003 17:33									#218
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People keep telling me I'm an evil, bad person. I always knew it's bullshit.

Now I've read about you guys and finally I can be certain I've met the true evil.

You guys are the worst outcome of society, not me. I'm not to blame for my fate, you are.

	03-09-2003 18:12									#219
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident actually I believe they are awake during seizures. That's the scary part about them. You know what's going on, you just can't do anything about it.

It depends on the type of seizure. In minor ones, a body part starts twitching like mad while the rest of you stays conscious. In grand mal seizures, like the one I had, you don't even remember blacking out, you just have this blank spot in your memory between doing whatever you were doing at the time and getting rushed to the hospital. That's frigging scary.
Technically I'm having extremely small "seizures" right now in the form of my trembling hands. It's an aftereffect of the medicine that'll probably never go away. There are all kinds of seizures...

	03-09-2003 18:23									#220
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Personally, I think those people with broken legs should just suck it up and walk it off. Pain is all in their heads, and we all know that by using something you encourage it's healing.

And all those people with cancer should just get over it.

And all those people with brain chemistry imbalances should just get over it. After all, we know that chemicals in your brain really don't do anything. That's why no one smokes pot or gets drunk.

	03-09-2003 18:25									#221
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it's just crazy when I come and think about it... the whole concept of depressoin isn't accepted because of guys like you that have everything and still complain. look at my youth, with no friends, no girlfriend, rejected by everyone in every possible situation, and you try to tell me it's all in my brain?? I don't do happy pills to stop lying to myself, I do them because I HAVE to lie to myself lest I die of something unnatural.

	03-09-2003 18:27									#222
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Actually, I think I need to go back on the real meds. I really can't stand the thought of leaving home these days. I'm actually disappointed when my contract gets renewed, because that means I have to keep leaving my safe place.

I've been self-medicating with food and computer games, but as Dr Phil would say, "How's that workin' out for you?" It ain't. The Florida sunshine really helps, but depression is a tricksy devil.

	03-09-2003 18:29									#223
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quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion it's just crazy when I come and think about it... the whole concept of depressoin isn't accepted because of guys like you that have everything and still complain. look at my youth, with no friends, no girlfriend, rejected by everyone in every possible situation, and you try to tell me it's all in my brain?? I don't do happy pills to stop lying to myself, I do them because I HAVE to lie to myself lest I die of something unnatural.

Not all depression is caused by chemical imbalances, some are.

It's stupid for me to sit and ask why everyone isn't on the pills, and it's stupid for you to sit and ask why anyone is on the pills.

	03-09-2003 18:33									#224
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I've suffered from depression for 26 years.

If I could have sucked it up by now I would have.

	03-09-2003 18:33									#225
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quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion it's just crazy when I come and think about it... the whole concept of depressoin isn't accepted because of guys like you that have everything and still complain. look at my youth, with no friends, no girlfriend, rejected by everyone in every possible situation, and you try to tell me it's all in my brain?? I don't do happy pills to stop lying to myself, I do them because I HAVE to lie to myself lest I die of something unnatural.

You have situational depression. There are actual circumstances in your life that are making you depressed. Now, after a long time, this can alter the chemicals in your brain, but right now, it just means you have a depressed mood.

Other people are different. Other people have a genetic disposition to depression. Other people have had serious traumas that induced the chemical imbalance.

Not everyone is the same Ect.

	03-09-2003 18:41									#226
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It's the nature of chemical depression, at least, to feel inexplicable resentment and sadness for no reason for extended periods of time. You know on some level that you have nothing to be sad about, but you rationalize it by blaming your misery on nonexistent sources, so that something like getting cut off in traffic escalates into proof that life is hopeless. The main reason that you can't snap out of it is that doing so would require you to acknowledge that you have no reason for despair, a concept that my brain, at least, would not have been able to handle. A depressed person wants to stay depressed, in a weird way, because it's easier to be miserable than to confront your misery. As experience on 'Poly has probably taught all of us, there is no prospect more unpleasant than that of having to totally alter your worldview, no matter how necessary that alteration may be, because in changing fundamental aspects of how you understand reality you essentially destroy yourself as you were. I'm not expecting anyone to be convinced by what I say, because many people have apparently already decided what is the truth independent of substantial information, which is pretty much the same kind of thing I'm talking about here. It's an FYI thing.

	03-09-2003 18:57									#227
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quote: I wonder if we had these drugs earlier whether Nietzsche might have gone on to even greater things. His Nihilism could have been developed so much further IMHO.

Perhaps, however, thats why we have future generations.. standing on the shoulders of giants etc etc.. so its better for us . Depression has its benefits, I'd probably be far less creative if I was "normal".

	03-09-2003 19:50									#228
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue I wonder if we had these drugs earlier whether Nietzsche might have gone on to even greater things. His Nihilism could have been developed so much further IMHO.

So you're saying that people should suffer so that the rest of us can have nice things/ideas/art?

Yes, a sad truth is that much, if not the vast majority of art, is the result of diseased brains. The world would be a less enjoyable place if not for the torment that they suffer, a torment that allows them to see the world in different ways and to try and express it through different means. On the other hand, the chemicals in our brains sometimes get the better of us, and we kill ourselves or burn all our art (as one artist I knew did). Would we have had van Geoh withouth his madness? Probably not, but would wouldn't have lost him either.

	03-09-2003 20:05									#229
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara So you're saying that people should suffer so that the rest of us can have nice things/ideas/art?

No, the exact opposite. If these drugs were available then, Nietzsche might not have 'gone crazy' before finishing and editing Zarathustra, and may have written more in the next few years. I don't think great artists and the like would lose their brilliance with medication, but I think they may have longer with which to show it. I think depression medication, like anti-biotics, is given out too much, to people who may be better with other treatment, but I think there are many people who do need it. For instance, although I know little about his situation, if Ecthy's depression is situational, because of things that have happened to him, then possibly sorting those things out, therapy to alter the way he views it and himself, may be better than anti-depressants. They may not, but IMHO situational depression, ie. depression that is not something chemical/physical in the brain, but the way you perceive things, can be often treated better without drugs. As I said though, I am not sure if this applies to Ecthy, he just seemed like the best example from what I've seen posted

	03-09-2003 20:20									#230
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Yes, but Che, we have massive amounts of evidence that cancer and broken legs are real complaints that actually do need medication.

	03-09-2003 21:38									#231
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They're like clinical depression in that respect.

	03-09-2003 21:58									#232
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue if Ecthy's depression is situational, because of things that have happened to him, then possibly sorting those things out, therapy to alter the way he views it and himself, may be better than anti-depressants.

He's still having brain chemistry problem, however. Just because something caused you to be depressed doesn't mean the chemicals in your brain are out of whack. It jut means your brain isn't "hardwired" yet to make permanent. In such cases, therapy is generally recommended.

My depression started out situational. Twenty six years later, I don't even remember what it was that made me depressed, though I suspect I was the new school and the evil children with whom I had to associate for the next eight years. It is no longer simply a matter of coming to terms with my pain. My brain is wrong and I need meds to keep it under control sometimes.

	03-09-2003 22:35									#233
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I would say that the appeal of bleak elements in art isn't their aesthetics so much as the fact that entertainment thrives on novelty, change, and complex subjects. People grow bored with too much of the same thing, and there's something in our minds that just can't go places with the theme of happiness. Basically the same reason that all narratives have to have some kind of conflict. We are excited by change, and bliss is by nature stable and calm. The depressed tend to be good writers and such because they have experience in soaring peaks and troughs of emotional change, far more than any normal person, because they don't require an actual stimulus for their moods. That's it really.

	03-09-2003 22:36									#234
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therapy?

that's what you'd love, complete subordination

	04-09-2003 00:30									#235
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Personally, I think those people with broken legs should just suck it up and walk it off. Pain is all in their heads, and we all know that by using something you encourage it's healing. And all those people with cancer should just get over it. And all those people with brain chemistry imbalances should just get over it. After all, we know that chemicals in your brain really don't do anything. That's why no one smokes pot or gets drunk.

Hehehehehehe Like it

	04-09-2003 00:39									#236
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It ain't over 'til the fat lady sings.

|·O

	04-09-2003 00:48									#237
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quote: Personally, I think those people with broken legs should just suck it up and walk it off. Pain is all in their heads, and we all know that by using something you encourage it's healing. And all those people with cancer should just get over it. And all those people with brain chemistry imbalances should just get over it. After all, we know that chemicals in your brain really don't do anything. That's why no one smokes pot or gets drunk.

Really?? WOOO!!!!

EDIT: removed a few dancing blobs.

	04-09-2003 00:59									#238
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Stop ****ing quoting that piece of ****. It is obvious when people have cancers or broken legs.

Depression is still open to question.

False comparison.

	04-09-2003 01:00									#239
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a few comments.

The source of the depression and the treatment dont necessarily match up one for one. You dont get pneumonia cause of a lack of antibiotics in your body, but antibiotics cure it. A "situational" depression can be helped by meds, and a "chemical" depression by therapy. It less to do with the cause then with what works for any individual.


And ideally they leverage each other = therapy helps with med compliance, patience with the meds, etc. The meds can get you better enough to take advantage of therapy.

And not every med works for everybody. and some people dont respond to any.

and there are different kinds of therapy. and not all therapists are created equal (as with any other professional) and some people do better with therapy than others. and some with different kinds of therapy.

Peace to all.

	04-09-2003 01:02									#240
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quote: Originally posted by Park Avenue Stop ****ing quoting that piece of ****. It is obvious when people have cancers or broken legs. Depression is still open to question. False comparison.

depression is still harder to diagnose, since today it is diagnosed essentially by questioning the patient, and not by some hard and fast organic test. Although it should be pointed out that there are other diseases that are not easily diagnosed either, despite the presence of organic tests.