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Elephant
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Phila PA
Aug 2002
time: 00:30
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Puzzling. I have bribed AI caravans in the past, but I wait till they get close enough to me so that they home themselves to my city. A NONE seems useless except for Wonder building, for which it is far too expensive. I have never seen commodities change (or even food become commodity) but I do not give them away very often...
"Trade routes with yourself" - domestic routes between your own cities, or to/from your only OCC city? I did not think that was possible. All domestic routes get a -50% reduction.
SG: was the 450g the bribe cost or the delivery payment?
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Six Thousand Year Old Man
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Ad Rock
Aug 2000
time: 00:30
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Interesting - this has happened before, IIRC:
I thought I would hit enter tonight to see what kind of 'vans we had in O Sole (they're all food) and then resave and start in 1752.
So, I expended the remaining move points available (island Diplomat, Galleon) and hit enter. O Sole grew by 1 pop point, and I was able to move the unit (Diplomat) produced in O Sole. But nothing else would move, including the game date - it was still 1750.
To see what happened, I expended the new Diplomat's movement and hit enter again. O Sole grew again, and everything could move again. And it was 1752.
So the net effect is that I have gained 2 pop points - and on further review, I also collected 2 turns worth of science, and spent 2 turns worth of money, and gained 2 turns of production in O Sole - in 1 turn.
This smacks of some kind of exploit of which I am unaware (I'm going to go back to the original save tomorrow, instead of playing from here). Anyone seen this before? Obviously this could be a huge exploit... 
Save attached.
 Attachment: strange.sav
This has been downloaded 1 time(s).
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Elephant
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Phila PA
Aug 2002
time: 00:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Scouse Gits
I don't consider bribing enemy units an exploit - but am ready to stand corrected...
No it isn't a non I bribed it under the walls of O Sole Mia.
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Agreed. Reverse of the usual rules: let the camel get as close as possible before bribing...
quote:
Overseas demanded deliveries are netting > 600 at the moment so yes it was worth it - and it is a way of buying science...
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Best cash that one in ASAP - RailRoad will drop delivery bonuses by a third.
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Six Thousand Year Old Man
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Ad Rock
Aug 2000
time: 00:30
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1750: I think what I want to do is build some 'feeder cities' to support some units, and then go to war. Staying in Demo is worthwhile, as O Sole will grow back to size after a couple of Settlers are rushed.
1752: Diplomat in O Sole. Start Settlers.
Chinese learn Economics, Vikings acquire from GL.
Chinese and Vikings start Adam Smith.
1754: Gems>Sevastopol 880 g. Gold supplies freed up. 
1756: Leadership>Explosives; Settler in O Sole, start Caravan.
Mongols learn Chemistry from Russians, Russians learn Polytheism from Mongols.
Japanese learn Steam Engine.
1758: Decline to swap techs with Mongols, as Aleppo is in disorder... 
Japanese start Eiffel; Japanese demand 900 g and get war with us 
1760: Aleppo (size 6) bribed for 713 g; international incident; government falls; we acquire Theory of Gravity and 173 g.
Gold Caravan in O Sole; start Settlers.
Ace founded.
Mongols learn Writing.
Japanese form Monarchy.
Vikings develop Steam Engine.
1762: Form Democracy. Adjust taxes to 6.3.1 temporarily.
Chinese develop Metallurgy.
Russians develop Leadership; Vikings acquire from GL.
1764: Nara costs 2100 g  Oh well, send in the Dragoons instead. 
English develop Gunpowder. Russians and Japanese declare war on one another.
Chinese and Japanese declare war on each other.
1766: Taxes adjusted to 1.2.7.
Peace with Mongols.
Vikings get Metallurgy from Chinese, Chinese get Invention from Vikings.
1768: Diplomat in Ace. Tax rate to 0.2.8.
Japanese develop RR - bye-bye trade payoffs. Japanese start Darwin.
1770: Nothing of interest.
A slow start at conquest - 2 new techs; we're closing in on Explosives and we have built one city, acquired another, and are in position to build another city at 41,65. My intention was to have the smaller cities build Diplomats and Settlers while O Sole built Caravans.
I was hoping to deliver the Gold Caravan before the Japanese got RR... oh well. Even if I had built the Caravan in 1756 instead of 1760, I think we would have been out of luck.
Attachment: o__a1770.sav
This has been downloaded 6 time(s).
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Six Thousand Year Old Man
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Ad Rock
Aug 2000
time: 00:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Bloody Monk
Good start in the expansion phase, STYOM.
I was wondering what your considerations were in the build choice for O Sole?? Is a food van better than another settler/city?? Is this a stockpile for WOW; just wondering??
That barb pirate off O Sole is bad joss.
Monk |
Thanks. I felt it was a bit slow, but I was indecisive about how to proceed: continue to build Caravans? keep science high? stay in Demo?
I stayed in Demo to keep the science high, and because I wasn't ready to field a big army, yet. So long as O Sole had 10 shields surplus/turn, I was happy.
I didn't build food 'vans for a few reasons... we have 4 already, which would be a good start towards Darwin, and commodity 'vans were at certain times still available.
Darwin is IMO the only wonder worth building from now on... all others can be captured. So if we can take a city from the Japanese, some of our feeder cities could be used to build food 'vans.
When I couldn't build commodity 'vans I built Settlers and Diplomats. Aleppo was surprisingly costly and we don't have enough of an army to attack S Japan (their northern colony, on the other hand, is ripe for the taking)... so building more cities (as opposed to capturing them) seemed the best way to go. We need units, and I didn't want to waste O Sole's time building Diplomats and military units forever. Hence the Settlers.
I was playing with the Science rate too much. I wanted Engineers, so I was planning on getting Explosives and then doing further research with Caravans and Diplomats. Despite this intention, I tweaked the tax rate hoping for a few more coins to bribe Japanese cities with... and that turned out to be pointless.
The barb pirates have been entertaining but harmless thus far. I was hoping that they would land and come close enough for bribing, but no luck so far. The Russians must have a colony SW of O Sole because I saw Russian units engaging barbarians there.
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Cyrion
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Caught somewhere in time
Jan 2002
time: 06:30
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Ok, here it is
1770 : Gold 837, 3 cities; Rush-build Caravan in OSM and Diplo in Ace; hit Enter...
1772 : The Vikings have nearly completed Adam Smith
Barb land near OSM: we loose 1 shield, and are 1 shield short of van completion! 
3 barb crusaders die while attacking Musketeers; 2 more stay on the landing spot (so... no bribing )
Dragoon kills the 2 barb crusaders
diplo built in Ace, new city, Gondoliere, founded on 41,65
Aleppo threatened by Japanes Knights: IRB Dragoon
1774 : 2 Japanese Knights attack Aleppo, killing 1 musketeers ( ) , size 4 to 3 !! 2nd knights dies on second musketeer
the new Dragoon kills the surviving Knight
The Diplo in Ace bribes Barb Crusader for 82 Gold; supported by OSM
Gold delivery in Smolensk delayed because the science box is already full
Musketeer RB in Gondoliere, settler in Ace
1776 : Discover Explosives; research Steam Engine; settlers become engineers
2 Dragoons kill japanese catapult and knight near aceand become veterans
Gold delivered in Smolensk (demanded): 946 Gold! Nice…
1778 : musketeer RB in Ace
Talk to Vikings: give Explosives, get peace; exchange: Steam engine for Democracy, Astronomy for Monotheism
RB temple in Aleppo
Incite revolt in Ormuz (around 400 Gold); get 117 back; gov fells
1780 : Japanese have nearly completed Darwin; change to Women Suffrage
New Government: democracy!
Dragoon kill jap settler; musketeer takes position on river; dragoon kills jap cata
RB engineer in OSM
1782 : New Research: railroad
Dragoon kills jap knight near Nara
Musketeer kills jap catapult near Ormuz
RB Barracks in Ormuz
Talk to English; request Steam Engine: OK; gift?? 250 Gold
1784 : Japanese have nearly completed Women's Suffrage
RR discovered->Metallurgy
Barracks is built in Ormuz
Helper city founded south-west of OSM: FuniculiFunicula
Dragon kills Jap Knight near Nara
RB caravan in Gondoliere
1786 : Kyoto builds Women's Suffrage
Troops getting ready to attack Nara
1788 : Vikings and Japanese start working on Darwin's Voyage
Tax rate changed to 4.4.2
1790: Japanese develop Leadership
Fortress built near Nara, ready to launch attack!
Japanese Catapult destroyed near Nara
Darwin is ready to be built in OSM (box full)!
And in short:
Cities in 1770 : 3
Cities in 1790 : 6
Cities founded : 2
Cities "acquired": 1
Tech discovered: 2
Tech traded: 2
Wow built: 1 (nect turn...)
Caravan delivered: 1
And for my successor: you'll be the happy one who gets to choose what Darwin brings! And there is a gold caravan "en route" to Russia (demanded inSmolensk, for instance!).
I am eager to learn what I did wrong, though I guess that the main problem might be that my progress was quite slow...
Waiting for some Robust Criticism... 
The save:
Attachment: osm1790.sav
This has been downloaded 6 time(s).
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Cyrion
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Caught somewhere in time
Jan 2002
time: 06:30
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Thanks for your input, Monk!
quote:
Avoid wasting accumulated beakers by waiting to build Darwin on the turn after finishing research on the current tech. That nice gold bonus will be wasted if I read your log correctly.
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Yes and no: you're fully right, I didn't think for a second on the already accumulated beakers, and so we will loose them upon building Darwin... Sorry guys... 
BUT no, we won't loose the gold bonus as:
1) the 1st caravan has been delivered a few turn ago, and we already used the bonus in a tech (RR)
2) the 2nd Gold caravan won't arrive in Smolensk before 3-4 turns, so we will be able to use the beakers!
So it wasn't as bad as you thought...  Though I'm not sure how full the science box was, I'll have to check...  (so it might be even worse than expected )
But I learnt something: I'll be sure to use Darwin better next time, thanks!
quote:
However, the current tech, Metallurgy is already known by the Chinese. So, if the next player makes a trade, before ending the turn, with the Chin to get Metallurgy, then three techs can be had instead of the usual two.
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How that, 3 instead of 2?? You mean including Metallurgy??
But your point highlights 1 of my deficiencies: I don't talk enough with the other civs to get gifts (mostly) and science!
quote:
Also, even though Nara is unwalled, it is probably defended by fortified Muskets. Sending that last nonvet Dragoon would not be prudent.
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Yes, my thought exactly! That's why I builded the fortress, to allow my dragoons to rest, and maybe draw some fire on the fortified musketeer! And the attack on the japanese catapult had among its goals to try to get a vet status! Wasn't obtained, though...
To take the city more easily, maybe speeding towards cavalry might be a good solution?
Or taking (bribing? there is a dip close to it for this purpose... ) the city west of Nara and, if it's a coastal (not sure right now...) building clads from there to bombard Nara...
Teacher n°2, please speak: I'm eager for the second lesson!
BTW: I should have taken part in a Succession much sooner: reading the thread isn't really as intructive as doing the mistakes myself...
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DaveV
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USA - EDT (GMT-5)
Jan 1970
time: 00:30
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I have the save, and will play over the next few days.
Initial analysis - our reputation is Questionable , our Pathetic army consists of 3 engineers, 7 musketeers, 5 dragoons, 2 galleons, 2 diplomats, 2 caravans. We have 152 gold at 4.2.4. Income is 96 gold (132 after changing scientists to taxmen), 13 turns/tech. Ormuz, with barracks, is building a diplomat, while two non-barracks cities are building musketeers. We are 3 techs away from Espionage, 4 from Tactics, 3 from Fundamentalism, 8 from Machine Tools.
Support costs are high, but we lack some key techs. Only one city has barracks. The Japanese hold Sun Tzu's and a couple useful techs (on the path to espionage and tactics); first priority is acquiring those techs. Much as I would like to switch to celebrating fundy, bribery is a huge concern and democracy is probably the best government.
Although it would be nice to have cavalry, cannons will provide the same attack factor at a lower cost. Since we have railroad, movement is not a huge issue. Dragoons/riflemen should be sufficient to take on musketeers, IF the walls are down. Therefore, tech research will be aimed at M. LaFayette's favorite unit, that elegant lady in the black dress. Our base tech research is poor, so I will switch to a high tax rate and buy a few caravans while moving diplos into position to steal some techs. Does anyone know which Japanese cities have already had techs stolen?
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19-12-2003 02:57
On the other hand, I had two fine trade routes with myself, so maybe it comes out in some sort of cosmic balance. 
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