29-12-2003 19:07									#211
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quote: Originally posted by DaveV Darwin will probably yield Metallurgy and one other tech;

Unless, as BM suggested, you can trade it with the Chines before you hit enter!

quote: I wasn't criticizing your lack of an army; I capitalized "Pathetic" because that is our rating in the F3 screen.

No prob, I didn't take it personally: our army is only marginally weaker than at the beginning of my term

@ -Jrabbit: à votre service, cher ami...

	29-12-2003 19:15									#212
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quote: Originally posted by Cyrion Unless, as BM suggested, you can trade it with the Chines before you hit enter!

A good suggestion, indeed, if only our reputation and their attitude (Icy, as I recall) were better. As it stands, I don't think I'll be willing to pay the price to make them friendly enough to consider trading...

	29-12-2003 20:22									#213
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by DaveV A good suggestion, indeed, if only our reputation and their attitude (Icy, as I recall) were better. As it stands, I don't think I'll be willing to pay the price to make them friendly enough to consider trading...

True enough! About the reputation: does a city bribe influence it (can't remember, but thought it didn't!)? If yes, then I might be guilty on that as well...

	29-12-2003 20:40									#214
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by DaveV A good suggestion, indeed, if only our reputation and their attitude (Icy, as I recall) were better. As it stands, I don't think I'll be willing to pay the price to make them friendly enough to consider trading...

They will undoubtedly demand RR; an easy gift, since their RR'ing will make our conquest easier. Then, one more gift tech or perhaps refreshing a "forgotten" peace treaty will get them ready to trade. Give it a shot.

We are also able to trade with the Russians for Metallurgy; but, I didn't mention them because you will probably have to break the alliance if you do not give them a miltech.

Now, if you can swallow giving away a few more techs, this trade opportunity with the Chin would be a good time to get amap exchange with them. But, I am confident you will not choose to go that far.

Contact the Chin. Even if they declare war because you shun their request, they are a long way away. A few turns later all will be forgiven...maybe...probably.

Monk

	29-12-2003 21:01									#215
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Cyrion About the reputation: does a city bribe influence it (can't remember, but thought it didn't!)? If yes, then I might be guilty on that as well...

If you bribe a city belonging to a civ with whom you have a peace treaty, it causes a reputation hit; no hit when you're at war. Since your log noted a fall of government, I think you did indeed contribute to our bad reputation. But I don't expect reputation to be much of a problem once we gain tech parity and get the army rolling.

quote: Originally posted by Bloody Monk Contact the Chin. Even if they declare war because you shun their request, they are a long way away. A few turns later all will be forgiven...maybe...probably.

Yes, I'm sure you're right. I'll take another look at the tech list and see whether we have a couple techs I'm willing to give away. And, I want to check whether there's another worthwhile tech I can gain from Darwin that's not already available via theft/trade/begging.

	02-01-2004 12:00									#216
	Re: Our empire triples in size! Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man 1768: Japanese develop RR - bye-bye trade payoffs.

Just to clarify, the reduction in the caravan bonus doesn't actually occur until Railroad is discovered by the civ in question correct? (I may be misreading STYOM's post, but I read it as the railroad bonus being decreased as soon as railroad was discovered by the Japanese, not when it is discovered by the Civ2 Succession Gamers). This may now be a moot point, as you now have railroad anyway (see Cyrions log above), but if those of you out there with knowledge greater then my own ( ok that includes everyone ) would care to clarify, I would appreciate it, as this would assist me in the future.

* Sparrowhawk

	02-01-2004 14:18									#217
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I'm with you on this one Sparrowhawk - trade reduction on YOUR discovery of RR etc...

Stu

	02-01-2004 20:43									#218
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Yes, it is getting RR that kills the bonus.

So, slow down research if you are working on RR to allow those vans to be delivered first. This is also a good time to overdo the deliveries (more than needed for the next tech). You can use the extra $ to get Darwin.

And you do want to hurry up Darwin so that you can more quickly get The Corporation. This brings back the fat delivery bonuses. As well as allowing those spiffy freights.

Monk

	02-01-2004 21:52									#219
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Bloody Monk As well as allowing those spiffy freights. Monk

Sorry, Monk
My dictionary is quite thick, but 'spiffy' is not included.
Thank you for kind help

	02-01-2004 23:00									#220
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I finally finished my (uncharacteristically peaceful) turns. No major accomplishments, and I'll probably be sent to the Institute for my tech choices. In my own defense, I was gearing up for war at the time...

1790 Contact Chinese, they demand railroad, we refuse, they grow weary of our insolence. Give Railroad, they improve to Neutral. They give Metallurgy for Seafaring, improve to Receptive. Give Navigation, they improve to Worshipful. Exchange maps, they have no more time to waste with us . Change tax sliders to 10.0.0, change scientists to taxmen in O Sole Mio. Change production in Ace, Gondoliere, Aleppo, FuniculiFunicula to caravan, Ormuz to musketeer. Move NONE dragoon from O Sole Mio to (empty!) FuniculiFunicula. Vikings change to Democracy. Japanese attack our fort near Nara, no losses.
1792 O Sole Mio completes Darwin's Voyage, change production to diplomat. First pick: Industrialization (instead of Atomic Theory ), second pick Conscription (instead of Atomic Theory, The Corporation, Electricity, or Feudalism). Research Communism (instead of Atomic Theory, Electricity, Feudalism, or Tactics). Vikings and Japanese abandon Darwin. Galleons upgrade to transports, musketeers to riflemen. Rushbuild riflemen in Ormuz, caravan in Gondoliere and Aleppo. Russian caravan contacts FuniculiFUnicula, demands Railroad. We pay up, they celebrate our alliance and improve to Neutral. We request a gift, they fork over 300 gold .
1794 Gold caravan in Gondoliere, Gems in Aleppo. Our regular dragoons kill Japanese dragoons near Nara, fail to be promoted. Rushbuild caravans in Ace and FuniculiFunicula. Chinese discover Democracy, Mongols discover Leadership. Barbarians capture Sigtuna. Senate signs peace treaty with Japan behind my back! Vikings develop The Corporation.
1796 FuniculiFunicula, Ace build dye caravans. Rushbuild caravans in Aleppo, Gondoliere, riflemen in Ormuz.
1798 Gondoliere build Wool caravan, Aleppo build Gold. Rushbuild caravans in FuniculiFunicula, Ace. English develop Railroad, Russians develop Steam Engine, Japanese develop Democracy.
1800 FuniculiFunicula builds Wool caravan, Ace builds Silk. Rushbuild riflemen in Ormuz, caravan in Aleppo. Russians acquire Writing from English, English acquire Engineering from Russians, sign peace treaty. Japanese and Mongols sign peace treaty.
1802 Aleppo builds Spice caravan. Gold (D) O Sole Mio -> Smolensk, 664. Change tax rate to 5.5.0, change taxmen to scientists. Rushbuild caravans in Gondoliere, Ace, FuniculiFunicula.
1804 Caravans: Salt in FuniculiFunicula, Ace, Aleppo. Rushbuild riflemen in Ormuz. Russians acquire Democracy from the Chinese, Chinese acquire The Wheel from the Russians. Russians and Chinese sign peace treaty. Russians send wool Sevastopol -> Aleppo.
1806 Russians acquire ?? from the Chinese, Chinese acquire Physics from Russians. Japanese expel our diplomat near Nagoya.
1808 Dye (D) Ace -> Smolensk, 144; Gems Aleppo -> Smolensk, 100; Dye (D) FuniculiFunicula -> Smolensk, 158; Gold Gondoliere -> Smolensk, 94. Rushbuild riflemen in Ormuz, caravans in Ace, Aleppo, FuniculiFunicula, Gondoliere. Russian government is overthrown. Japanese develop Communism (arrgh - too late!), Marco Polo expires.
1810 We discover Communism, Espionage is next (instead of Atomic Theory, The Corporation, Fundamentalism, or Tactics).

Attachment: o__a1810.sav
This has been downloaded 4 time(s).

	02-01-2004 23:58									#221
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Peaceful dave
This is perfectly normal, since the week between Christmas and the New Year is named 'la trève des confiseurs' (since so many people eat so much chocolate and so many cakes during that week ).

	03-01-2004 00:17									#222
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by La Fayette Sorry, Monk My dictionary is quite thick, but 'spiffy' is not included. Thank you for kind help

So sorry my friend. This is from my 60's era college dictionary (Webster's): a well dressed person, smart, neat spruced up [Slang].

It means 'hot looking' or 'very cool', especially in contrast to the norm, in this case, camels.

Monk

	03-01-2004 00:45									#223
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DaveV,

Nice turns and I really appreciate your richly detailed log. It is a wonderful contrast to the logs of some others (hint, hint).

Peaceful, yet heavily slanted to war, or at least stronger defense. It was a difficult choice, or would have been for me. I am referring to your passing three times on The Corporation. Getting those extra bonus payouts would lead to faster research. So now there are lots of camels waiting for transport and marginal payoffs. If you had taken The Corp sooner the recent deliveries....

Well, at least you have assurred the likelihood of vet spies and that's a very good thing too.

Monk

	03-01-2004 00:55									#224
	Remove this text

Monk,

I really agonized between Conscription and Corporation; in retrospect, Corporation was clearly a better choice, I think. But at the time, I was trying to fight off the Japanese, and riflemen could take out fortified musketeers as well as defending well. On my last turn, I figured that vet spies were a higher priority, since they could "acquire" the corporation from the Vikings.

	03-01-2004 01:07									#225
	Tired of ads?

DaveV,

I sympathize. That's what makes this game so addictive, so many choices, and each one has its consequences.

Monk

	03-01-2004 01:58									#226
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Monk,

Exactly! Multiple, equally viable, paths to victory are the heart of this game. Jean-Paul Sartre would love it - your choices determine your future, and you must live with their consequences.

	03-01-2004 22:42									#227
	Full PM-box? Change here!

BTW, it strikes me that more cities would be good. Celebrate, build Engineers, and slease a little. Again, more choices....

Monk

	04-01-2004 01:01									#228
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by DaveV On my last turn, I figured that vet spies were a higher priority.

Better late than never

	04-01-2004 17:52									#229
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits Looks good from here - not checked the save yet tho' 1. Old n Slow 2. SG [1] 3. La Fayette 4. STYOM 5. Cyrion 6. DaveV 7. JRabbit 8. Julius Brenzaida 9. Straybow 10. Zenon

This one is not going as I had envisaged - but it still looks good ..........

Stu

	05-01-2004 18:33									#230
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Busy weekend. Sorry it took a few days for me to check in.

D/L complete...

Looks like I'm getting Espionage, then must hope The Corp is available. Beyond that, will re-read the rules to see WTF I'm supposed to do...

	05-01-2004 18:42									#231
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Bloody Monk BTW, it strikes me that more cities would be good. Celebrate, build Engineers, and slease a little. Again, more choices....

More cities are always a good thing. I would contend, however, that the best path to more cities is building military units who can conquer multiple cities, rather than engineers who will be lost during the course of building a city.

-Jrabbit - there are no longer any rules. Take your rabies shot (since you're already a rodent), and go to work .

	05-01-2004 18:58									#232
	Suffering from ads?

Oh no!

You made the (usually) fatal error of calling a rabbit a rodent!

You can either send yourself voluntarily to the special Lagomorphic Identification Centre (affiliated to the Institute), or lie low for as long as it may take to blow over. Good luck!

	05-01-2004 19:53									#233
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

OK, so the gloves are off and we can
build/buy/attack whoever/whatever/wherever.


The rules state

quote: Deity, raging hordes, giga map, MGE, usual Poly rules apply. bloodlust. 20 turns each until 1750; a round of ten turns each, then 5 turns each thereafter.

Query1 -- Does this mean we stay Spotless ("usual Poly rule") or that anything goes?
(Since this is a tribut to SG(2), I want to get it right...)

Query2 -- Would like to confirm we are on the round of 10 turns currently.

Thanks.

quote: Take your rabies shot (since you're already a rodent), and go to work

I'm sure DaveV was referring to my at-times-rodentian playing style. wishing to start the new year in a spirit of cooperation and good will, we will overlook this possible insult to the lagomorphic community...

	05-01-2004 22:35									#234
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by -Jrabbit ...Query1 -- Does this mean we stay Spotless ("usual Poly rule") or that anything goes? ... Query2 -- Would like to confirm we are on the round of 10 turns currently. ... ...

Usual Poly rules to me includes no re-homing of 'vans. there may be others that I'm not aware of, so a catch all was used. I don't recall a usual rule of spotless rep, simply a common (and often worthwhile) thought to maintain such a rep. But no we have no specific nor implied rule to maintain any such for this game.

You have ten turns to wreck havok and acquire resources, fame and glory.

	06-01-2004 19:04									#235
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D/L'd and took a brief look before work this a.m...
Our power is Weak and our reputation Questionable.

Should be fun...

	07-01-2004 03:20									#236
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quote: Originally posted by DaveV Monk, Exactly! Multiple, equally viable, paths to victory are the heart of this game. Jean-Paul Sartre would love it - your choices determine your future, and you must live with their consequences.

Even Jean-Sol Partre would love it
Yes, it is amazing the combination of not so obvious choices we are offered by this game

	07-01-2004 17:56									#237
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quote: Originally posted by -Jrabbit I'm sure DaveV was referring to my at-times-rodentian playing style. wishing to start the new year in a spirit of cooperation and good will, we will overlook this possible insult to the lagomorphic community...

Yes, of course that's what I meant
* DaveV searches for a Holy Hand Grenade in case of attack by a ferocious rabbit...

	07-01-2004 18:43									#238
	Maybe tonight... Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by DaveV * DaveV searches for a Holy Hand Grenade in case of attack by a ferocious rabbit...

...with Big Teeth!

It was my daughter's birthday yesterday, so all I managed was the Full Survey preparatory to Actual Play. This is an interesting game. With only 6 cities amid several well-developed civs, our team looks almost like a respawn.

1. Dave has built an expeditionary force of dragoons, rifles, and engineers, for an attack on (presumably) Nara. It would be rodentially wrong to ignore this fine preparation.

2. We have 6 cities -- sizes are (1), (26), with the rest (3) or (4). We have about 700 GP for temples, so perhaps some democratic growth for engineers. We need more rails, more cities...

3. We have a bunch of camels, most of which seem ready to take a transport to Russia.

4. The UN is out there and, with MP expired, we have only one embassy. Redeployment of some of those camels is under consideration.

5. Trying to decide if post-1810 is too late to plant some cities. There are plenty of potential sites on our continent, but is this effective so late in the game?

So many choices...

With only 6 cities (for now ), turns shouldn't take too long. Hoping to post results tomorrow.

	08-01-2004 19:31									#239
	Got spare money?

It was hard cheese for me last night. By the time I was free, my daughter had control of the comp...

Maybe Fri. a.m. posting. I hope...

	09-01-2004 19:13									#240
	Finally!! Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

In a nutshell -- we've grown, we're at war, we have a new WoW, and prospects for continued fun are bright.

Here's the zipped save. Log coming soon...

Attachment: o_1830a.zip
This has been downloaded 4 time(s).