01-12-2003 17:19									#121
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Check the dates, MS - this is all ancient history.

btw - Monkey have announced that they will not tolerate jungle clearance, and that lumberjacks (esp transvestite lumberjacks) are untermenschen.

That;s just the slap in the face that Python & CoD need to justify our war! Sir Ralph was right - we need to destroy them.

	01-12-2003 19:25									#122
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quote: Originally posted by Cort Haus Check the dates, MS - this is all ancient history. btw - Monkey have announced that they will not tolerate jungle clearance, and that lumberjacks (esp transvestite lumberjacks) are untermenschen. That;s just the slap in the face that Python & CoD need to justify our war! Sir Ralph was right - we need to destroy them.

Ah, so our brave workers are untermenschen? Do you remember when, before we assumed our august postions in C&D, we had to help clear up the forests and irrigate and ... as part of our collective effort for he betterness of Iz?
Well, the Monkeys just unsulted us, and me. It is ample reason for going to war.
BTW, at least they are logical: without jungle, no monkeys...

	01-12-2003 19:43									#123
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Beta has posted a kind of Monkey Manifesto on the general forum - announcing its opposition to forest/jungle clearance in general, threatening Pythonian and Izzardian workers specifically.

I don't know if any of the other teams are roleplaying eco-fanatics, but I wouldn't expect many of them to approve of these demands, unless they've got no forest or jungle nearbly.

So, when the diplomatic brown stuff hits the whirly thing, if the other teams read monkey correctly they shouldn't be too fussed about their extinction.

	01-12-2003 20:43									#124
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It makes conflict a little more understandable, perhaps. Instead of cold-blooded genocidal greed, we can claim that we needed to cut down the jungle (for lebensraum, of course) and this would inevitably have caused conflict with Monkey. Best to just get it out of the way, what-what.

-Arrian

	02-12-2003 16:56									#125
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Absolutely.
Maybe we should advise the other teams that we put the Monkeys on the WWF extinct species' list.... well, once they are gone.

	04-12-2003 23:48									#126
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Technically, we still owe Monkey a response to their offer of a third tech-for-hut deal. Further, I want to follow up with them about Literature.

So, I'm sending this message:

quote: Con, A couple of questions for you: 1) How's literature coming? 2) You mentioned a 3rd hut-for-tech deal. What tech did you have in mind? -Rob

	05-12-2003 00:44									#127
	Remove this text

quote: Hey Arrian, hows my favorite MZO micromanager doing? In this game we will have Lit in four tirns, Ill ask the guys about which tech and get back to you soonest. Have a happy holiday managing your empire! Steve K

	11-12-2003 18:36									#128
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H_E PM'd me saying they've finished Literature and asking what they should research next. He asked me to PM Beta, since it was late where he was...

So I sent this:

quote: Beta, H_E asked me to PM you regarding your next research. As far as I can remember (and I will check our forum), Python started mathematics after they finished the wheel (after they did philo). We're ~10 turns from republic. So, it's up to you, but Map Making looks good from here. -Arrian

	11-12-2003 19:31									#129
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From con:

quote: Arrian We would like the wheel for the hut. Thats the lowest beaker count tech that we do not have yet, and would be the best we could do if we popped the hut ourselves. We noticed you are right there and we are sitting on the save right now. Its mainly my fault because I should have gotten back to you sooner but if you can get us a quick turn around on this it would be great. Thanks con

My inclination is to tell them we've decided we'd rather not get HBR from a hut, so if we are to do such a deal, it would have to wait until we have Republic, so we can block off HBR (and have Python give us Math, if they've finished it, so that we would get Polytheism, I think).

What say you, team?

-Arrian

	11-12-2003 19:32									#130
	Put an end to popups!

- except it gives them a chance to escape

	11-12-2003 19:35									#131
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mapmaking, I meant.

On the other - I agree - if they want that trade we'd only want to do it later and try to get polytheism. Leave it up to them.

	11-12-2003 19:38									#132
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Con, On the proposed hut deal... I've posted it for discussion, but I fear I may be the only CoD'er looking at the forum right now. Here are my thoughts (and mine alone, so it's not formal policy): If we are to do such a deal, I'd want to hold off until we have the republic (~10 turns), so we can block of horseback riding and maximize our changes of getting another juicy tech from the hut. I'll get back to you once my teamates have a chance to chime in. -Arrian

And I see I was wrong - Cort has already chimed in. Excellent.

Good point about Map Making. Problem is, if not MM, what? It will take them forever, you know.

-Arrian

	11-12-2003 19:44									#133
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To con:

quote: Con, Cort Haus was around, and he agrees with my assessment of the hut-for-wheel-trade idea. If that's ok with you (the delay), I'd say we have a deal, unless Mountain Sage shows up and manages to convince the two of us we're wrong. If you guys don't wish to delay, just let me know if you pop the thing and get barbs, so our scout can run away. Since you have Lit, we can proceed with a Lit-CoL swap (IIRC, that was the deal). Send it over, and we'll send CoL back. Mmmm, libraries. -Arrian

	11-12-2003 19:45									#134
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Construction? No they need Maths. Polytheism? No, they need Mysticism.

HBR?

	11-12-2003 21:41									#135
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HBR, no, they need the wheel. That's the tech we would trade for the hut. And frankly, I'm ok with them getting the wheel, but I don't want them to have HBR when we're going to invade them!

I think MM is the best way to go. We will just have to make sure we build a galley.

More from con (actually he sent me 3 messages, but this is the final one):

quote: OK I just checked the screen shot, the barb hut (in the dark right now so we dont know whats in it) is 3,3,3,6 of your current position or 3,3 of the hut. So I would move north and stay away from that barb camp. You could also move west and camp on those hills but they are in the dark right now and we do not know if a barb camp is in that area. Up to you, be careful if you go west! We are going to build a city 8,8,7,7 of your current position in three turns, so if you camp in those hills up there you would be in our culture ring three turns from now. There is a chain of two hills we will build on the northern hill of the two. (due north of you) Hopefully that gives you some idea of where to go.

...

quote: Thanks for that info, con. We will move our scout accordingly. I'm not on AIM, sorry. -Arrian

	11-12-2003 22:07									#136
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We don't want them making contact either and squealing for assistance.

	11-12-2003 22:10									#137
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True. I think, all things considered, that we can take that risk. We need MM too, and this way we get it via trade just before the war. We can have our own galley built out of Burundy which will at least give us a chance of finding & sinking any galley they build.

-Arrian

	12-12-2003 23:53									#138
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Message to con:

quote: Con, I was conferring with Sir Ralph of team Python and he reminded me of a problem with our hut-for-wheel deal: the wheel is NOT CoD's tech to trade. Python researched it. They were planning on dealing Philo+Wheel for Literature, IIRC. So anyway, if we are to do another hut-for-tech deal, it will have to be with another tech. I'm sorry. This was my mistake. I just forgot. Hmm, the only other tech I think we could trade you would be mysticism. It's a more expensive tech, but it's not actually as immediately useful... I'll discuss with the team. -Arrian

Arg. I stoopid.

Because I stoopid, I think we might need a thread that lists which techs we have, and where they came from (and thus by extension, whether or not they are tradeable).

-Arrian

	17-12-2003 01:00									#139
	Increase Your PM Length

I was chatting with con over at MZO, and he mentioned that Monkey would still like to do a hut deal, but with Mysticism instead. I told him that I'd bring that back to the team.

Mysticism is a more expensive tech than the others we've used for hut deals, but then again it doesn't convey any particular advantage (oooh, the oracle ) and they are scheduled for execution relatively soon anyway. What do you guys think?

-Arrian

	17-12-2003 03:42									#140
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We don't want HBR, so we'd have to wait at least 7 turns until we tried it - and get Currency from Python before popping it. That'd leave Polytheism or Contruction from the hut - worth a shot if Monkey don't mind waiting.

	17-12-2003 05:51									#141
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They were fine with waiting before (when it was gonna be for the wheel), so they will be fine now, I'd expect.

-Arrian

	17-12-2003 14:55									#142
	Increase Your PM Length

Yes, Mysticism will be pretty useless for them. I'd take the risk to get Polytheism or Construction from the hut. It will also show that 'we are in business' and don't plan anything nasty...
How do we spend those 7 turns? 0 research and plenty of gold?
A table would come in handy...

	17-12-2003 15:34									#143
	Remove this text

Republic is researched in about 7 turns, then we set to research HBR and hit the hut. After the anarchy, we time our HBR research so that we have six chariots when it's done. Construction would rock!

They might even keep that NM down there for a while to deal with Barbs. Which could be handy when we hit them.

	17-12-2003 18:47									#144
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Yes, yes it would

-Arrian

	17-12-2003 18:51									#145
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PM to con:

quote: con, Ok, we're up for a Mysticism for hut deal, so long as you guys are ok with waiting 7 turns (our current ETD for republic) so we can block off HBR. What did you guys end up picking as your research? Map Making? What's the ETD on that? -Arrian

	17-12-2003 19:28									#146
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PM from con:

quote: Yep we are good on waiting, I pretty much went into Dictator mode and insisted upon it Its around 20 turns to map making. Ill double check the next save, And as usual good doing business with you! con

We have a deal.

-Arrian

	19-12-2003 22:15									#147
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New messages:

quote: Arrian Just wanted to let you know Map making will be done in 17 turns. Also I bit of intell. I was messing around with the save for a change and noticed that Monkey military was strong compared to CoD and Monkey military was weak compared to Monty. Are you guys aware of that? Its looks like you are REALLY weak compared to Monty. Looks like something maybe up to your north and just wanted to let you know. conmcb25

...

quote: Thanks for the info, con. 17 turns... cool. I think we're 6 or 7 from republic. Python's strength vis-a-vis CoD has not gone unnoticed. But at this stage in the game, a very small number of units (like, say, 2 swordsmen) can have a large impact on the F3 military strength. And we're not defenseless. -Arrian

The Monkeys have noticed the buildup. Hopefully, when our strength increases, they will assume we are countering a threat from Python.

-Arrian

	19-12-2003 23:54									#148
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Heh, I *knew* they'd get around to asking...

quote: Can you tell us what those Monty workers and Spearman are doing at your southern borders?

...

quote: Building a road with those super-duper industrious workers of theirs. They're helping us with some roadbuilding, and the hooking up of silks. This will benifit them as well. -Rob

	12-01-2004 21:17									#149
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Monkey talk:

quote: Arrian Greetings from the Monkeys! We noticed you popped the hut and are in anarchy so we are assuming you have republic. Will you be sending Mysticism this next turn for the hut? Any good things come of it I hope? Let us know when your scout starts heading back north. Just so I can let my guys know. Thanks! We would like you to give us republic early so we can get started in the governement switch. Right now we will have MM in about 4 turns and are still running under the assumption we will trade MM for Republic. This will only help our research which in turn also helps you. Let me know what you guys think Good doing business with you.

...

quote: Con, Sorry for my recent silence. Some of it was because of the holidays, some because of our recent transition into republic, and some more because of the outcome of the hut. First off, I thought we had paid you guys up-front, and I apologize for that having slipped our minds. I will post orders to give you Mysticism next time we get the save. Second... well, I feel kinda stupid. We got something from the hut we (read: I) did not expect: Map Making. You may have noticed a corresponding drop in research time. This was not the plan. It screws up the trading somewhat. Here's what I'm currently thinking: you guys researched MM under the assumption you would be able to trade it for other things. Therefore, CoD will not trade MM to Python. It's yours to trade to them. On the other hand, that still leaves the republic (researched by CoD, ours to trade). We have to discuss this internally and figure out what we want to do about that. We do want to get you guys republic, but until we got MM from a hut, we figured we would be getting a pricey tech in exchange. I was caught off-guard when we popped that hut. I was so sure we'd get Polytheism. -Arrian

	12-01-2004 23:24									#150
	Inflate your Upload Space

Follow-up PM from con:

quote: Arrian Well dam, what do we do now? Can you let us know what you are currently researching so we can look at our options as well? Maybe we ought to switch from Map making to something else and save the research already done? I dont know, but knowing what you guys are researching now could help us figure that out. (I think ) Thanks con

I haven't replied yet.

I guess I'll get around to telling them we're almost done with HBR and will be researching Polytheism next, while Python does Construction. In the same PM, I could raise a cash-for-republic deal.

If we intend to pick a fight around T100 (or maybe a few turns after), that leaves roughly 10 turns until we would want to do a money for republic deal (as we would want the deal completed prior to starting the war). They're still researching MM for the next couple of turns. So that leaves maybe 7 turns of max tax.

In short, even if they go for the "money for republic" deal, we're not gonna get a heckuva lot for republic. On the other hand, that's not really the point.

-Arrian