11-12-2003 21:36									#301
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Looks like I O Solo'd just in time. Downloaded DoY's latest & will look at it tonight.

	13-12-2003 06:17									#302
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I'm back.

Let's go to Fundy and conquer the world. Who needs Communism?

Apologies to STYOM, if you PMed me, it must have bounced. I've had a full box somewhat often since trying to finish off the civ2dg.

Now I'm done, and I have some time for the sxngames, since my exams are done.

May I take 2 sessions in succession and see if I can't take us out of the doldrums?

	15-12-2003 20:42									#303
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We have the statue -- we can have a new government -- hmmm (looks to check for the next oedo year, hey wait we have the statue -- EVERY year is an oedo year!) revolt.

1680 (1) -- Become commy as per recommendations from sages. Also toggle to 8.0.2 as we are seriously poor in addition to being weak. Meet Carthage (4 spears; NW of Zulu), cash in dip for embassy, and muddle our use of the NW triremes for the remainder of our tour of duty. They continue to search, and not very well. siren Calls and Argo produce a couple of camels bound for our central markets.

1710 (4) Disband a trireme in Athens, also disband a warrior in Troy for a camel.

1730 (6) Found Cyclops on the spice south of Athens.

1740 (7) Barbs seen N of Siren Call -- adjust builds to dip & chariot to appear on the next turn.

1750 (8) Barbs sail west…(China, which switched fro ST to IN, completes IN)

1752 (9) Barbs double back and are just outside Siren Call -- out folks empty out of the city to great the boat. toggle to 3.0.7

1754 (10) -- discover Myst, opt for Phil.

Notes for next player. We have a couple hundred coins in the treasury, and most of a ship chain of galleons between lands west and lands central. There are a few camels aiming for central markets on the boats now and a couple ashore yearning to go west. my hope was that the commodity camels could be cashed in for the $$ and beakers, allowing for the food camels to be produced in time for the next wonder -- even as the discovery for the next wonder occurs…

Attachment: od_a1754.sav
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	15-12-2003 20:48									#304
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Good stuff.

10 turns apiece.

Play list:

1. Oldnslow
2. Ben Kenobi
3. STYOM
4. SG[1]
5. Jrabbit
6. La Fayette
7. Straybow (skipped)
8. duke o' york (only on Sunday mornings)

Ben, you're up... just 1 set of 10 turns, tho.

	15-12-2003 20:55									#305
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Remove "only on Sunday mornings" from my name please.
I'm able to play every evening until Monday this week, as my last day at work before Christmas is next Tuesday, and I obviously can't post anything after that. If anyone needs some quick turns completed (guaranteed next day delivery on weeknights - others on Monday next week ) then remember the .

	15-12-2003 20:57									#306
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Sounds good, duke. The game may not get around to you before Xmas, but if it does...

	17-12-2003 16:04									#307
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Thank you STYOM.

Taking the save.

I'm going to go Fundy. We need the cash, and the ability to expand over the terrain that we know.

We also need modern military technology, as well as Industrialisation.

Lots of challenges!

	17-12-2003 17:03									#308
	Got spare money?

Taking the reigns from OnS....

1754:

We don't have the military to go Commie, and we collect just as much from deliveries under commie, as in Fundamentalism.

We lack cities, as well as improvements to even celebrate and attempt to match the other civs in terms of size, and strength.

I want to go Fundy, build temples marketplaces and harbours in all of our cities. Then, I want to go Demo to celebrate up our cities, so that we have some growth. After we have celebrated, then I want to churn out settlers to exapand our empire, since their are several excellent city locations, yet unexploited.

First comes the economy, then the population, and then the war machine. It's our only hope to catch up.

:doitnow:

Break off from building caravans to Temples and Marketplaces. Rush remaining Caravans already in production.

Revolt to Fundamentalism.

Now making 22 gold per turn.

We are going to need some deliveries to get the ball rolling.

Note, Mike's Chapel has not been built.

1756:

Redirect all cities to build improvements. Shipchain caravans towards Zululand.

1758:

All cities come out from disorder, we now make 100 gold per turn. Much better than communism.

Zulus begin Mikes' Chapel.

Build city of Aristotle, Plato.

Rush two temples.

1760:

Rush another two temples. Now up to 114 gold per turn. Zulus build Mikes chapel.
Build city of Ptolemy

1762:

Rush another two temples, build city of Archimedes. Now up to 120 gold per turn. Sell library to shore up city defenses in new city of Ptolemy threatened by trireme with units.

Raid mongol city of Salamis.

1764:

Mongol Trireme comes from nowhere and sacks Ptolemy. They steal Magnetism.

Raid fails to capture Salamis.

Rush Marketplace, no temples available.

1766:

Mongol catapult costs too much to bribe. Will wait for unit to move, and rebuild another city on the site of Ptolemy. Spanish frigate destroys barbarian frigate patrolling the coast. All units now guard Siren's call.

1768:

Rush two temples. Now making 130 gold per turn.

1770:

Mongols bribe Plato, steal more technology.

How did the diplomat get on our terrain?

Decline from building more city improvements, to increase our cash, and prevent further bribes.

1772:

Again decline, I need to bribe the Mongol catapult.

1774:

Rebribe Plato, steal Gunpowder.

Now we have better defense than Phalanx! All we need will be leadership, and then we can fend off enemy attacks.

Keeping a 100 gold cushion, I build 2 more marketplaces.

1776:

Note, I have a settler going to build another city closer to the Zulu continent. The trade ships continue to Zululand.

Almost all the cities are producing marketplaces in preparation of the explosive celebrations under Democracy.

	17-12-2003 17:06									#309
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Da Save.

Attachment: od_a1776.sav
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	17-12-2003 17:07									#310
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... and the save?

	17-12-2003 17:09									#311
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Cross post

	17-12-2003 17:26									#312
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Doesn't sound too bad overall.

I'm not too sure where all these new cities are. I shan't download the game until it's my turn because I may not be able to stop myself playing on...

STYOM

	17-12-2003 21:23									#313
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@ duke

The save looks good. New cities are pretty well placed to fill in around the western and eastern colonies. 17 cities with 15 temples, which is how fundy rings in the coins. If all those white goods can be completed before the next military crisis, things will be looking even better.

Good job Ben.

Monk

	17-12-2003 21:41									#314
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quote: Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man (Rather than talk about it forever, I decided to just do it) Rules... of course there are rules : 1. No trade with the enemy. Period.

And the camels are going where???

	18-12-2003 06:28									#315
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quote: Originally posted by Old n Slow And the camels are going where???

Somewhere internal. At least we have a lot of sea squares (arrows) and different continent bonuses.

I hope they aren't en route to AI cities... that's a lot of movement wasted if they are

I've downloaded it, and will take a look tonight, play by Friday AM, I hope.

	18-12-2003 07:07									#316
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Seems like "senior moments" are going around. They can turn around and go back, so nothing major, right.

Monk

	18-12-2003 07:40									#317
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quote: Originally posted by Bloody Monk Seems like "senior moments" are going around. They can turn around and go back, so nothing major, right. Monk

Looking at the save now. Looks like they're going the wrong way, all right. That will be fixed.

	18-12-2003 10:02									#318
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Status update: 9 turns into my reign, we have a new government, 2 new techs (researched, not stolen!!), and I am trying to wean us off white good construction.

Updates tomorrow.

	18-12-2003 18:27									#319
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Sounds promising.
His Gitness is the next High Priest of the Most Worshipful Company aboard the Good Ship Civ!

I'm looking forward to reading the turn log, and maybe I'll take away a save if we get one just to have a look around the world.
(Fear not Monk, I've got the OCC 3 - not 4 - to play so I shouldn't play any unofficial turns in this game)

	18-12-2003 18:46									#320
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They only thing we have to fear...is fear itself.

Monk

	19-12-2003 09:07									#321
	Perhaps I should have played this one while sober... Get a bigger avatar today!

1776: Everyone hates us, we're "Weak" and to top it all off, we're researching Philosophy. Great.

First thing to do is turn those Galleons around.

Second thing to do is adjust the tax rate. Yeah, I know, in Fundy, why have Science? But we are set at 80% tax, 20% lux, and the luxuries are useless at 20%, since none of our cities can celebrate at that level. 20% sci would be mostly but not completely useless; thus, better. Once we finish some more Marketplaces (because our cities with Markets WILL celebrate at 60% lux, and that could be reduced to 40% or so once the celebrations start) and once the 'Vans are close to being delivered, I will bump luxuries and ditch the science rate.

Thinking about Communism. Unrest shouldn't be an issue. And we could use the extra science. Inducing celebrations would be just as easy as in Fundy. No vet spies yet, though. The negatives are unit support and cash.

So once we have some Markets in place, we'll switch to Commie. That will clear up the cash problem, largely (once we start to celebrate) and will allow time to rehome units where needed.

We have 8 Galleons, 8 Caravans, and 1 Musketeer. We need more Musketeers and 'vans. We need Diplomats!

Changed a few build instructions... no need for a Market in size 1 Plato... a Musketeer is better. Rush Market in Cimmeria, which is undefended; hopefully we will have the time to complete a Musketeer there.

* Six Thousand Year Old Man is unhappy with a lot of our eastern cities build queues... Harbour in Athens? Markets in Cyclops and Archimedes?? And why is Cyclops working 2 river tiles, meaning the Marketplace will be finished in 73 turns... or 1886!

Who let the perfectionists in!? Workers rearranged, at least... don't want to sacrifice the shields.

This has a nice feel to it. We are on the cusp of turning this around. We're also on the cusp of having the Zulus roll up Polyphemus, Plato et al like a red carpet after J-Lo has left the building.

(This will all seem much less funny when I'm sober, and my girlfriend is done providing Robust, Constructive, but ultimately Clueless, Criticism - RCCC )

Press ENTER!

1778: Market in Cimmeria>Horsemen.
Settlers SE of Ulundi retreat to Galleon. I suppose they were intended for the 182,152 sweet spot... but there are Zulus who are Hostile and only in ceasefire with us. Any city that close to Zuludom would be toast.
Prepare to ICS... we can fit another city between Sparta and Galen, and it would be defensible... assuming we can hold Polyphemus.

Bump tax rate to 5.5.0. Let's see if we can't squeeze out some celebrations for next turn, since I want to deliver a van next turn.

Rush Market in Charybdis.

1780: Some celebrations. Hides Circe>Siren Call, 102 g. Tweak some workers and increment a little.

We now have 7 marketplaces and some cash, now we might as well revolt.
REVOLUTION.

Carthagines are almost finished Shakespeare.
Carthagines learn Conscription, Zulus get it from GL. Great.

1782: Communism formed. Taxes to 2.8.0 to jumpstart celebrations.

Carthagines declare war without giving other options

Chinese change from Shakespeare to CfC, WTF??? CfC already?
Carths build Shakespeare's Theatre, form Republic.

1784: Tax rate reduced to 2.4.4. This keeps most of our large cities celebrating, gives us net income of 19g and 6 turns per tech.

Bank rushed in Troy.

Zulus learn Chemistry.

1786: Not much, units being moved.
Carthagines reaffirm their desire to crush us like a small bug.

1788: Polly Famous founded.

Bede rates us Hopeless. Gosh, thanks for the great insight, Mr. Bede.

1790: More moving units. Rush Harbour in Circe.
Carthagines learn Chemistry.

1792: We discover Philosophy; with our free tech we pick pick Polytheism. What, we don't get a free tech? Someone else knew it first?
We start researching Polytheism.

Beads Troy>Sparta, 192 g. Cloth Troy>Sparta, 96 g. Cloth Cimmeria>Troy, 50 g.
Increment some things, finish some Marketplaces.

Zulus start UN

1794: Polytheism discovered; researching Monotheism.
Uh oh... Chinese Transport spotted S of Argo. Looks to be carrying something(s) - clicking on it shows an Engineer. Block the landing site on the peninsula with a Chariot.

Chinese land; peace, units withdrawn at my demand, no tech gift or swap
Losses! Spanish Frigate kills new Musket in Ptolemy; Zulu Frigate sinks Galleon with 2 Diplos on board

1796: Chinese Ironclad spotted S of Aristotle.

We're still pitifully weak. I'm not sure if I should have switched to Communism, either. Going to Commie got us an extra tech, but cost us cash which could have been used to do some rushbuying. Staying in Fundy and rushing some Diplos and Muskets and more 'vans for the science seems to have been the better way to go, despite the slower science rate. We did finish a lot of Markets to keep celebrations going, and there are a few demanded Caravans going to various places which should be relatively obvious.

Note: Ptolemy and Polly Famous are currently undefended.

Next...

Attachment: od_a1796.sav
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	19-12-2003 09:15									#322
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Stu, you're up. Please save us!

	19-12-2003 09:45									#323
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RCCC



Still, God bless girlfriends who let us play our games.

Monk

	19-12-2003 13:32									#324
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This does not look good

Bad girlfriend! Must imrove quality of RCCC!
Remedial courses available at ... The Institute!

Let's see what can be rescued from this shambles ...

Sir, Git to bat, Sir!

	19-12-2003 15:24									#325
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The way things are going, -Jrabbit is padded up and Git hasn't even left the pavilion yet!
Things proceed as usual at the Marylebone Constructive Criticism Club.

CfC, UN!!!!! OMFG! RCCC!

Is Mike's still not built anywhere?

	19-12-2003 19:08									#326
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I seem to recall that Mikes was built somewhere. On the plus side, Hoover is still unbuilt, and we only need about 40 techs to make it available...

... or 1 tech (if stolen)

	19-12-2003 19:16									#327
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1796 - Yuk! Troy only size 7! Where were the perfectionists when we needed them? Communism needs cities to work, not bloody villages! This is truly dire. The Git surveys the debris of 660 years of misrule and chaos and weeps ... OK - who lost us our Spotless reputation? We are only 20 techs behind the Zulus and 18 behind the Carts - a mere bagatelle - I seem to recall someone spurning my suggestion that a stealing spree was in order - obviously it is optimal to consider research to be a cottage industry in this game ...

Proposed 'solution':
1) Grow we have a current population of 1.61m - minimum viable pop is 5m - make it so
2) We require an enormous 'diplomatic' presence - make it so
3) A few more trade routes would not hurt - make it so

Action: Revolution, sliders to 4.6.0, employ Elvi; Adjust production in light of above; Enter with great trepidation ...

1798 - Harbour in Archimedes, Cyclops, Charybdis; 3 caravans & a Diplo completed; Democracy established; What s*dding use are sleeping boats & dips? Sliders to 6.4.0; lots of Courthouses started
1800 - 6 cities celebrate; Cimerian Silk - Troy, 79g; Argo Gems(d) - Circe, 213g; Spanish gift Writing for Peace swap Currency & Trade for Industrialisation & Steam Engine; Mongols alliance and they gift us ... Warrior Code; Zulus declare war;
1802 - 1 Temple, 3 Courthouses, Population 2m;
1804 - Aqueduct in Troy; Siren Call Silver(d) - Charybdis, 132g;
1806 - 1 Temple & 2 Courthouses
1808 - 1 Courthouse, Population 3m;
1810 - 1 Temple;
1812 - Zulus bombard Ptolemy; 2 Courthouses; buy bombarding (vet) frigate (forces of a Democracy - yada yada - send Embassy - Zulus revolt tell me to s*d off - buy frigate); Spartan Wool - Troy, 101g; Siren Call Silk(d) - Troy, 240g; (Silk demand appeared after first transaction);
1814 - 2 Courthouses; Monotheism->Communism; Circean Hides(d) - Cimmeria, 102g; Trojan Beads(d) - Ptolemy, 152g; Nice new ellie kills Zulu cannon outside Polyphemus and becomes vet ; Use cash to buy non (ex Zulu) cannon to fortify on the front; Aquire Mathematics & Astronomy from the French (a restart?);
1816 - Population 4m; Diplomatic Corps now 8 strong; Internal trade flourishing;

We are as my good lady would say "in vast acres of trouble" - I suggest that several of my predecessors need refresher courses on "The Effective Use of Government" - all I could manage was a slight improvement - this looks dire ...........

Stu

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	19-12-2003 19:32									#328
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Well you kept a straight bat and nothing more could be asked of you. We just need to keep things going forward at a steadyish pace (well, the quicker the better, but not doing anything rash) and we should be able to play ourselves back into contention. It's a four-day match, not a Super Seven!

	19-12-2003 19:45									#329
	Increase Your PM Length

Everyone has a change of gov't, now. Is there a "Double Secret Silly Rule" in effect???


Does anyone think that a minimal level of agreement on direction and strategy would be useful???

Monk

	19-12-2003 19:51									#330
	Re: Oh My ... Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: We are as my good lady would say "in vast acres of trouble" - I suggest that several of my predecessors need refresher courses on "The Effective Use of Government" - all I could manage was a slight improvement - this looks dire ........... Stu

My bad - I didn't feel that celebrations would have been possible in Demo, and didn't bother testing to see if that supposition was correct.

Nice diplomatic work, too.