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Six Thousand Year Old Man
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Ad Rock
Aug 2000
time: 00:31
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Hmm. Well.
On further reflection...
Ben was building a lot of Marketplaces and Harbours, which I criticized him for - and rightly, in the cases where he was building Markets in size 2 cities and Harbours in cities working one ocean tile. However, without the Markets, we wouldn't be able to get any decent celebrations going, so the idea was ultimately sound.
I (correctly, I think) realized that celebrations wouldn't have been feasible without Markets generally everywhere. Where I went wrong was returning to Commie instead of going to Demo - I had feared we didn't have enough happiness improvements (Cathedrals, Temples, etc) to avoid the unhappy faces.
The other problem we face is that while internal trade can be profitable - we're getting 200g for demanded goods, despite our puny city sizes - it's hard to deliver. The distances are vast, we don't have Magellan or a navy (only a merchant fleet), and the AI is cruising around in Frigates and Ironclads.
For this reason, OnS, I'm doubting the value of your shipchain, a bit, and didn't build any more Galleons. It would take more than a dozen Galleons to have an end-to-end chain, and it would be easily disrupted by the AI(which does have ships in the area). So I decided that trying to sneak Galleons through open water was a better idea for now - and that mostly worked. The only lost Galleon was one that was very close to Zulu lands, bearing Diplomats.
Kudos to Stu for recognizing the need for Demo and for pulling a fast one on some AIs to get techs diplomatically. 
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-Jrabbit
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of the Electronic Egyptians
Feb 2002
time: 23:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Bloody Monk
Before you make yet another change in gov't, think on this.
While switching to Fundy would bring in more coin each turn, ~100, staying with Dem lets some cities grow while you build. You can get every city to eight with tem, mp, courthouse, and maybe harbor. To get to twelve add harbor, col, duct. Eight is doable; twelve will take continued commitment from succeeding rulers. Some internal trade will quicken the pace.
Getting to a critical mass is important. So is better defense; warriors are a speed bump at this stage. |
You forgot the aqueducts. That's several hundred per city to maintain growth.
The core problem is the lack of GP to build that infrastructure. If excessive Lux doesn't do the trick, I will probably opt for 5-7 turns in Fundy (building camels and white goods along the way) before switching back to Demo trade/growth mode. And with nothing available short of the 3rd row, incremental builds are either slow or expensive. Increased shields would help overcome that.
Seems to me our original ICS plan has been trashed. We need some engineers-during-growth to increase the city base on our larger islands, too. (All while hoping the bad guys don't notice how weak our defenses are.)
This looks more challenging than Silly Rules... 
(Welcome back, Ben!)
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-Jrabbit
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of the Electronic Egyptians
Feb 2002
time: 23:31
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Hmm. Missed the last few posts before playing. Here's the net summary, with full log to follow...
Started in 1816, Inadequate/Excellent. We have 4.04 MM ppl and only 18 GP in the bank but about 195/turn income. Embassies with only 2 civs -- Zulus and Carts, both of whom we're at war with. Zulus (10 cities) and Carths (23 cities) are allied. In democracy, with 4 cities marginally celebrating and 4 size3 cities needing help. "Researching" Communism at 0 slider setting. Chinese have engineer, ellie, and ironclad nosing around the greater Sparta metroplex.
Now, it's 1836. We are Moderate/Excellent, with a pop of 4.77 MM and 520 GP in the bank. We've gone from Demo to Fundy and (on the last turn) back again, with (depending on my successor's -- La Fayette IIRC --choices) about 8-10 cities poised to grow under a 20-10-70 initial regimen. Currently studying Espionage.
Here's the zipped save, and happy holidays to all. 
 Attachment: od_1836ad.zip
This has been downloaded 7 time(s).
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-Jrabbit
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of the Electronic Egyptians
Feb 2002
time: 23:31
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Under cover of darkness, a shadowy galleon moves stealthily from The Institute to Troy. A heavily wrapped package of burlap is dumped unceremoniously on the docks. "Take 'im, 'e's yours," grunts the mate to the dockhands, and the ship slides back into the bay...
1816
--Conditions are detailed above. SWliders moved to 40-10-50-.
1818
--We contact the Chinese to learn why they befoul our lands. They demand (and get) Monotheism, and graciously agree to leave. 
--Carths learn amphibious warfare.
--Athens builds courthouse, celebrates WLTPD.
--Sparta completes temple, starts Courthouse.
--Argo (8) done celebrating.
--Charybdis hires some Einsteins.
1820
--Zulus discover electricity.
--Zulu horse and cavalry threaten our cannon and deip on their lands. Cavalry shot dead, diplomat escapes northward.
--W(don't) TP Any More in Archimedes, Cyclops (6) and Cimmeria (6).
--WTP in Aristotle.
--Two camels built. Galleons adjust position in chainlike fashion. Increments purchased.
1822
--Zulus and Carths swap amphib war and electricity.
--Polyphemus builds diplomat, starts barracks.
--Cimmeria builds oil van, starts Transport. (We need to upgrade our fleet!)
--WxTP in Siren Call. Getting tough to maintain growth...
--Argo builds silk van, starts aqueduct.
--Galleon disbanded in Ptolemy toward musketeer.
--Northern cdannon killed. Dip eludes pursuers, tries to find more Zulu cities. Transport with 4 more dips steaming north with intentions of tech theft.
--Warrior disbanded at The Institute.
1824
--Chinese (5 guns) announce they have discovered the wonders of Combustion. We are in awe...
--Pop now 4.73 MM.
--Mongols learn amphib war.
--Archimedes builds gems van, starts Musketeer.
--Aristotle celebration (our last) stops.
--Polly Famous, Ptolemy complete Musketeers, start camels.
--Athens complete Musk, starts aqueduct.
--Northern dip trapped, no new cities found...
--REVOLUTION (40-0-60, workers adjusted, increments bought).
1826
--Siren Call builds camel.
--We go FUNDY!! High Priest Rabbit calls for initial setting of 80-0-20. With some taxmen hired, our net per turn is 319 GP. 
--Rush van in Circe.
--Many increments.
1828
--Pop hits 4.77 MM.
--Zulus go to Democracy. UN forces peace with Zulus!
--Mongols also reach peace accord with Zulus.
--Carths learn Fundamentalism.
--Galen completes Harbor, starts courthouse.
--Aristotle silk van, Cyclops deiplomat, Circe spice van, Troy musket, Intitute musket.
--Prepping delivery of goods, so we move to 50-0-50 and hire Elvi for celebrations in key cities.
1830
--Spanish and Zulus declare peace.
--Carth DD appears out of nowhere and sinks our Transport with 5 dips aboard. 
--Mongols learn Fundy.
--Polyphemus builds barracks.
--Market in Sparta doubles route values (to 2  ), WLTHP and Courthouse start there.
--Argo silk (d, 252 GP) and Cimmeria oil (64 GP) delivered to Troy.
--Increments back to 80-0-20.
1832
--Chinese start Hoover Dam.
--Carth cannon north of Zululand kills our valiant dip.
--Polly Famous finishes camel, Galen finishes CH, Cimmeria builds Transport, Argo an aqueduct.
--Communism discovered, Espionage our new goal.
1834
--Mongols at war with French.
--Outside Ptolemy, Zulu ironclad killed by Chinese ironclad.
--Carth in gov change, at war with Spanish.
--Athens builds aqueduct, declares its love for the High Priest.
--Sparta courthouse, Aristotle musket.
--WLTHP Day celebrated in Circe, Athens, Troy.
--Athens Wool (d, 211) and Circe beads (d, 123) delivered to Siren Call.
--We have some cash and some cities ready to grow. So -- REVOLUTION.
1836
--Carths go Fundy, declare war on Mongols.
--Plato Courthouse
--Ptolemy camel, starts courthouse
--Cimmeria aqueduct, starts harbor.
--The Institue builds a van.
--Circe musket, starts aqueduct.
--DEMOCRACY started, President Rabbit elected on extremely short-term basis...
--Spanish chariot appears north of Polyphemus.
To La Fayette, my presumed succesor -- There is enough money (520 GP) to permit completion of several white goods, which should ensure adequate celebrations to get us up to 6 or 7 MM ppl. Similarly, there are plenty of vans floating around, which should get us Espionage in short order. (The coming of Espio is the reason I backed off the diplomat builds.) The ship chain is not the best, but a steady turnover toward transports should allow us to retire those galleons over the next couple decades.
I was very hopeful of some decent tech theft, but the brutal ambush of over half our diplomatic corps by the Carthaginians prevented it. (Travelling on the NE side of our largest island is NOT recommended. Enemy boats from 3 different civs (plus the odd Spanish chariot) indicate this is a crossroads area...
Don't know if this will get me out of a return to my chores at The Institute, but I feel some progress has been made. Maybe we can still turn this one around...
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19-12-2003 19:53
still drunk, old man? 
)
hoping to have his sentence reduced via The Institute's work-release program... **
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