12-03-2004 05:52									#181
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 _Whoever did this, if it wasn't Eta, has no qualms of hitting Europe. True, it may "favor" those who supported the US but it is actually IMHO trying to split Europe the way the US has tried.

The terrorists are trying to split Europe the way the US has tried? Oh my, those terrorists are much worse than I ever imagined.

Really.

	12-03-2004 05:52									#182
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Shut up Fez. Your words dont matter anymore. Why dont you let your blinding emotion take control and go do something artistic.

In their own minds they are fighting for freedom. We all know they are shooting themselves in the foot.

	12-03-2004 05:53									#183
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Oliver, I don't know virtually anything about the Eta or the IRA so I don't know how many they've killed or why. I just find it unbelievable for people they live next door to other people (the same country) to attack and kill so many. It just doesn't click, but as I said I know next to nothing about them. They never killed so many people in one shot though from what I read. ABout people capable of doing something like this, oh yes, it is the real world allright.

You can see what happened in former Yugoslavia as an example. They all lived together for long time. Next day they were killing each other. For those people the Spanish (they donīt see themselves as Spanish) are enemies. They hate them and donīt mind killing them. On the contrary, they like it.

Again, they never did it BEFORE today. But they have tried to do it three times before. Plus organizations change when people inside them change. Remember that big IRA act of terrorism? They had never do that before. But they did! They also had never put a bomb in a shopping center before Hipercor, and they did. They had never killed a man in fron of his wife and then kill the wife, but they did. We are trying to apply logic to people who donīt use it.

	12-03-2004 05:53									#184
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Speaking about Eta, how can they justify killing of inoccents when they are under no occupation, they live in on eof the richest parts of Spain etc? Were there wars or animocity between Basques and other Spanish? I'm asking that because you said many people see them as heroes...

The Basques get all the freedoms of an autonomous state. They have control of their own police, civil affairs and government. They still submit to Madrid, but they have a lot of freedom and a ton of prosperity. Basques as a majority are not for violence, and I bet most are happy the way they are with the autonomy and the prosperity. ETA does NOT SPEAK FOR THE BASQUE people.

	12-03-2004 05:54									#185
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quote: Originally posted by Winston The terrorists are trying to split Europe the way the US has tried? Oh my, those terrorists are much worse than I ever imagined. Really.

Oh yes.

	12-03-2004 05:55									#186
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quote: Originally posted by MRT144 Shut up Fez. Your words dont matter anymore. Why dont you let your blinding emotion take control and go do something artistic. In their own minds they are fighting for freedom. We all know they are shooting themselves in the food.

YOU SHUT UP YOU IDIOT, ONE OF MY FRIENDS WAS INJURED IN THE ATTACK. THEY ARE ****ING TERRORISTS.

YOU DON'T MATTER TO THIS. THIS IS THE COUNTRY I AM FROM. I WAS BORN IN MADRID. And I stand with every other Spaniard here, no matter their political stances, in this tragedy.

	12-03-2004 05:55									#187
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo ETA does NOT SPEAK FOR THE BASQUE people.

Like Catalan independentist parties do not speak for the catalan people. Iīm born in Barcelona, and for that reason I feel Spanish.

	12-03-2004 05:57									#188
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Plus the ETA is a radical left wing grouping. Those kind of people never seem to have too many moral quabbles blowing up and maiming what they perceive to be representatives of the establishment.

	12-03-2004 05:57									#189
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quote: Originally posted by OliverFA You can see what happened in former Yugoslavia as an example. They all lived together for long time. Next day they were killing each other. For those people the Spanish (they donīt see themselves as Spanish) are enemies. They hate them and donīt mind killing them. On the contrary, they like it. Again, they never did it BEFORE today. But they have tried to do it three times before. Plus organizations change when people inside them change. Remember that big IRA act of terrorism? They had never do that before. But they did! They also had never put a bomb in a shopping center before Hipercor, and they did. They had never killed a man in fron of his wife and then kill the wife, but they did. We are trying to apply logic to people who donīt use it.

Yeah... in Yugoslavia other factoes played part though. Like the collapse of communism which left a vacuum filled with nationalism etc.

Anyway I see what you mean. And how many time has Eta been active?

	12-03-2004 05:58									#190
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quote: Originally posted by Winston Plus the ETA is a radical left wing grouping. Those kind of people never seem to have too many moral quabbles blowing up what they perceive to be representatives of the establishment.

I though they were nationalists, sounds pretty right wing to me.

	12-03-2004 05:59									#191
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 I though they were nationalists, sounds pretty right wing to me.

ETA is a ultra left-wing seperatist group.

	12-03-2004 06:01									#192
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I haven't read this thread yet, but I just wanted to post here to say that I wouldn't be surprised if one of our wingnuts blames Bush for this. Now, I'll go read it.

	12-03-2004 06:01									#193
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo YOU SHUT UP YOU IDIOT, ONE OF MY FRIENDS WAS INJURED IN THE ATTACK. THEY ARE ****ING TERRORISTS. YOU DON'T MATTER TO THIS. THIS IS THE COUNTRY I AM FROM. I WAS BORN IN MADRID. And I stand with every other Spaniard here, no matter their political stances, in this tragedy.

wah, wah, wah. Fez, youre as about as spanish as i am black. Go back to spainlandia. Im tired of your constant outrage. If it isnt dirty lefties its the ETA or Al Queda or whatever boogieman is coming to get you.

	12-03-2004 06:02									#194
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In any case, if it turns out to be AQ...then it's pretty damn moronic, to say the least, since the PEOPLE of Spain were overwhelmingly against the Iraq War...and this was an attack against the PEOPLE of Spain, not the government or army in particular.

Of course, it's not like extremists are especially bright/caring about these details...

	12-03-2004 06:03									#195
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quote: Originally posted by MRT144 wah, wah, wah. Fez, youre as about as spanish as i am black. Go back to spainlandia. Im tired of your constant outrage. If it isnt dirty lefties its the ETA or Al Queda or whatever boogieman is coming to get you.

You're a ****ing arrogant piece of ****. If I get banned for saying that, good. I can not be outraged by this? I already said I stand with other spanish people, left and right, for protesting against this violence. And ETA is just terrorist scum.

	12-03-2004 06:04									#196
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quote: Originally posted by JCG In any case, if it turns out to be AQ...then it's pretty damn moronic, to say the least, since the PEOPLE of Spain where overwhelmingly against the Iraq War...and this was an attack against the PEOPLE of Spain, not the government or army in particular. Of course, it's not like extremists are especially bright/caring about these details...

Absolutely agree with what you said

	12-03-2004 06:06									#197
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BTW Winston that thing about radical left wing. You should educate yourself. Maybe in Denmark they kill people, in Greece however they are one of the strongest proponents of democracy. So maybe you should educate yourself before you so easily generalize under an obviously right wing (maybe extreme from what I see) bias.

	12-03-2004 06:10									#198
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Is it just me, or is there an undertone in some posts here that terrorism is worse when it hits people of one political persuasion than people of another?

In other words, if the people of Spain was against the Iraq War, it is just downright nasty of Al Qaeda to hit them instead of properly hitting the people of the US, the UK, Poland, Denmark?

Is this the attitude we're dealing with?

BTW, paiktis22, take your prejudiced view of me and stick it some place nice and warm. I'm not going to involve myself in a personal exchange with you if that's what you're looking for.

	12-03-2004 06:11									#199
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fez has that attitude. he wouldnt care if this happened to some hippie fest in peoples park

	12-03-2004 06:12									#200
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quote: Originally posted by JCG In any case, if it turns out to be AQ...then it's pretty damn moronic, to say the least, since the PEOPLE of Spain were overwhelmingly against the Iraq War...and this was an attack against the PEOPLE of Spain, not the government or army in particular.

Really? How do you know that. Do you have a cristal ball to see what people thinks? I agree with the statement "people who was in the streets was against Irak war" (and in favour of that dictator called Sadam. Great fighters of the democracy and fair causes!) but the people who disagreed with all the demagogist just stayed at home and didnīt say anything (I supposed they didnīt wanted to be hited by one of those "pacifists" for supporting Bush).

Please, donīt manipulate public opinion. Itīs ok to say what everyone things, but not to put words in other peopleīs mouth.

But coming back to the subject... If it was Al-Qaeda all this people that you say that were against the war could change their vote on Sunday. Thatīs why some sectors are so interested to take ETA outside of the picture. They want this to be paid by PP in the elections.

	12-03-2004 06:12									#201
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Oh I doubt the people of Poland were in favor of the war or a large part of the UK for that matter. Can't say about Denmark.

	12-03-2004 06:14									#202
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quote: Originally posted by MRT144 fez has that attitude. he wouldnt care if this happened to some hippie fest in peoples park

I stand with all my countrymen, left or right, who stand up against terrorism.

You are a idiot who tries to paint me out for something I am not.

I am going to go out an get some fresh air.

	12-03-2004 06:16									#203
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quote: Originally posted by MRT144 Freedom Fighters or Terrorists?

6/10

Who's freedom were the people on the train suppressing again?

	12-03-2004 06:17									#204
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quote: Originally posted by Winston BTW, paiktis22, take your prejudiced view of me and stick it some place nice and warm. I'm not going to involve myself in a personal exchange with you if that's what you're looking for.

Then you shouldn't be the first to reply to one of my posts right?

But don't worry the feeling is entirely mutual. You can go your sweet way.

	12-03-2004 06:17									#205
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quote: Originally posted by Winston Is it just me, or is there an undertone in some posts here that terrorism is worse when it hits people of one political persuasion than people of another? In other words, if the people of Spain was against the Iraq War, it is just downright nasty of Al Qaeda to hit them instead of properly hitting the people of the US, the UK, Poland, Denmark? Is this the attitude we're dealing with?

You are right.

It is "unfair" to hit Spanigh perople because (according to their opinion of course) Spanish people was against the Irak war. According to that theory, Al-Qaeda is blaming the government in the face of "innocent" people. Thatīs a perverse theory, but sadly many people buy it. I hope they donīt buy it for the elections.

	12-03-2004 06:19									#206
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i dont know how terrorists work dino, you tell me

	12-03-2004 06:19									#207
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Then you shouldn't be the first to reply to one of my posts right?

You do realise there's a difference between quoting a post to make a point on the thread topic, and a personal exchange don't you.

	12-03-2004 06:20									#208
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quote: Originally posted by MRT144 i dont know how terrorists work dino, you tell me

This is your troll not mine. I'm just trying to see where it leads.

	12-03-2004 06:22									#209
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quote: Originally posted by Winston You do realise there's a difference between quoting a post to make a point on the thread topic, and a personal exchange don't you.

And you do realize you're going to get a responce if your responce doesn't find me in agreement I hope. And that it is NOT a personal exchange?

I hope so anyway.

	12-03-2004 06:26									#210
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Wrong, paiktis22.

A personal exchange would be throwing insults around like you were getting ready to when you insinuated I held extremist views.

Responding on the thread topic would be debating.