22-04-2004 21:41									#391
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I like to keep a few though. Spells especially - knock, true sight, etc., which aren't worth memorizing, but having them in case of emergency is useful. Magic arrows I use, although I never know what to do with arrows of biting. They could be great, but I never end up using them. When to use them?

As for potions, make sure you keep healing and a few antidote ones on you, in case they're needed. I usually sell potions of defense, stone form, invulnerability, strength (plain 18 STR) and sometimes power and heroism. The first ones aren't needed, as fighters will have better ACs and STRs anyway, the latter sell for decent $ and aren't that good IMHO. I keep potions of giant STR, and use them whenever there's a fight I need to buff for.

I wouldn't say drink all like water, or sell all, but something in between. Don't be scared to use them, you will find more, but don't waste decent and expensive ones.

	23-04-2004 11:47									#392
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I have the bad habit of saving wands and potions for really tough fights. But when I get to the tough fights, I still never use them.

I'm too frugal

In NWN I oftne just sell scrolls, wands and potions. I never get around to using them. Except the ones I can't cast a spell to get the same effect.

	23-04-2004 13:59									#393
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I love the wands of summoning and fireballs that Dynaheir currently has, and I've given Imoen a wand of magic missiles in case I find something like the jellies that won't be damaged by the normal arrows she usually carries. My character has the magic arrows, apart from a few +2 arrows Imoen gets in case of really tough fights.
Erm, apart from really good treasure, is there anything else in this cave that I couldn't find? Like nasty monsters with petrify, confuse, poison and fear?

	23-04-2004 16:49									#394
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Massive Moderate* spoiler

spoiler(highlight to read): Treasure : Book of +1 CON (permanent) Wand of Paralysis 10 Darts of Wounding Cloak of "Wolf-form" Some cash Some potions Monsters : 3 Flesh Golems. (can only be hurt by magic weapons, and hit rather hard 2000 EXP each) You can summon another by resting in the cave

*Edited to make Duckie happy

-Jam

	23-04-2004 17:01									#395
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It's not that big. Show off.

I'm afraid that you (and especially your spoilers) have lost my trust Jamski. There are probably (a) rude pictures, or (b) offensive messages, or (c) damned lies designed to lead me off course in the game, or (d) all of the above, behind that innocent-seeming spoiler panel.

	23-04-2004 17:05									#396
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Well... just go and look in that cave, and you will find exactly what I put in the spoiler

So to you

-Jam

	23-04-2004 17:12									#397
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A terrible case of spoiler envy if I ever saw one!

I might just go into that cave and that would serve you right!

	23-04-2004 17:22									#398
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* Jamski giggles*

Do you want a map?

-Jam

	23-04-2004 17:29									#399
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No, but while I'm here I'd like a full tank of petrol, two Kitkats and a cheese and pickle sandwich. And have you got any blues CDs on the Hallmark label? They're bound to be good.....
* duke, after a terrible struggle, draws himself back from the brink of private joke territory, and is now set to rejoin the thread

A map shall not be necessary. That's one of the things i love about BG - you don't have to remember where you've been or what you've done, because the game maps itself, and keeps you a journal too. (I know that this is old hat, and probably all modern games do this, but I'd only ever played Civ 2 and playstation games for 3 years until I got BG) (and then BG2, almost immediately after ).

	25-04-2004 06:04									#400
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Bump

Don't want to see this thread go down to page three, not while I'm in the middle of BG1...

	26-04-2004 02:14									#401
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Don't worry this thread is imbued with the aura of Jamski's everlasting bump.

	26-04-2004 02:18									#402
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[I spot a BG thread and sneak out from the CTP forums to visit it.]

Well, a few of the posts here suggest that someone might be able to offer fun restrictions to play BGII under (I'm looking at Jamski here ).

I played as a Monk using no items at all* (through SoA). That was fun . For example, trolls were a nuisance with no fire, acid or poison at my disposal, and, for a change, it meant that the final battle at the end of SoA was actually the hardest battle, rather than a minor footnote... The game also took 161 days (of game time), which is far longer than any of my other games (my best time 59 days for a solo sorcerer without using weapons). It's so long that if I ever continue the game into ToB I run a (small) risk of running out of time...

Now I'm in the middle of doing the same with a Mage, using no items and casting no summoning spells. Any similarly silly recommendations for my next game are welcome . I was considering a cleric with no items, but then Jamski's "naked Jester" comment caught my eye...

* Subject to a few exceptions for quest-critical purposes - e.g. the Stoneshape Scroll, the Rift Device, etc.

	26-04-2004 02:27									#403
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OMG, you're challenging Jamski!
C'mon Jam you have to do something more impressive than J Bytheway.

Btw I had no idea there was a timelimit in BG?

	26-04-2004 02:31									#404
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quote: Originally posted by Trajanus OMG, you're challenging Jamski! C'mon Jam you have to do something more impressive than J Bytheway.

Can anyone point me at any of Jamski's more impressive feats? They might be interesting to marvel at .

quote: Btw I had no idea there was a timelimit in BG?

I think it's three hundred and something days... Considering that the day length is always quite long (appropriate for the time of year when BGII starts) it's a bit silly once you've been going for six months...

	26-04-2004 02:53									#405
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quote: Originally posted by J Bytheway Can anyone point me at any of Jamski's more impressive feats? They might be interesting to marvel at .

He did SoA solo with minimum stats for class, and plays using tactics and hardest difficulty usually. However solo with no items is also quite a challenge!

quote: Originally posted by J Bytheway I think it's three hundred and something days... Considering that the day length is always quite long (appropriate for the time of year when BGII starts) it's a bit silly once you've been going for six months...

A year possibly? I didn't know there was one either, but then I've never played through ToB yet. My current party will do though

	26-04-2004 03:58									#406
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue He did SoA solo with minimum stats for class, and plays using tactics and hardest difficulty usually. However solo with no items is also quite a challenge!

I did cheat myself up to straight-18 stats and switched difficulty down from impoissible when I leveled up to maximize HP, but that was mostly for surviving traps, not enemies (There are a couple of traps that do 100-120 damage around (at least on impossible), and under the SoA XP cap you can have trouble getting that many HP soon enough on the random rolls). I haven't tried playing with tactics yet - but I intend to .

On the itemless wizard game I was feeling a little more confident, so I took an honest statline - I even restrained myself and didn't cheat in a Bag of Holding at the start.

	26-04-2004 04:57									#407
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has anyone rescued Imoen immediately after exiting Irenicus' dungeon (soon as you scrape together 15,000 gold)?

	26-04-2004 05:14									#408
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I was tempted to, but I wanted to do my stronghold and get the bits for Chrom Fayer first.

	26-04-2004 05:16									#409
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Well, first of all try and do Tactics with a normal party on normal difficulty. That's harder than any "special challenge"

THEN

Try the solo Tactics.

THEN

Try solo naked jester Tactics.

I don't reccommend no items with a non-spellcaster when using Tactics though. There are too many creatures you WILL NOT BE ABLE TO EVEN HURT without +whatever weapons.

Oh, and a nice challenge is the no-reload solo run

I normally take the first roll of the dice for the starting stats too...

BUT

You need to know and use massive cheese tactics to get though the harder challenges. At the very least you should be stealing EVERYTHING in Atkatla & Trademeet after ODing on Potions of Master Thievery

-Jam

	26-04-2004 05:38									#410
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solo naked jester tactics
is that possible

	26-04-2004 05:55									#411
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Naked means no armour, not no weapons, so its not tooo bad.

-Jam

	26-04-2004 14:39									#412
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I finally found the golem cave, after getitng a bit confused, because I fought three sirenes all together, as well as a huge gang of hobgoblins and then assumed that they were the three I was looking for. After much wandering around, I came across another three, and one of them talked to me, so I knew I was on the right track. They weren't too keen on fireballs though, and no-one got dire charmed. Yay!
I then did the next area, and got the mad captain back to Nashkel. I left the cursed artefact in the tomb though - does anything good happen if you steal it?
Also, how can I decursificate the sword? I'd be very keen on having a +3 sword, but have no idea whence I can get a remove curse spell. Do temples do that?
I've nothing further to do in the south, apart from the Firewine bridge, and to get some Ankheg armour built, but the Ankhegs are to the north anyway. I'll be off bandit hunting then.

	26-04-2004 14:46									#413
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident has anyone rescued Imoen immediately after exiting Irenicus' dungeon (soon as you scrape together 15,000 gold)?

I saw someone reporting that they did that with a solo assassin once, IIRC they had big problems defeating

spoiler(highlight to read): the Balor in the underdark menacing the villiage

and then they gave up not long after that due to lack of interest. I'd like to try it with a Sorcerer - I think that would be the besst way to do a "speed run" of BGII (Completing it in the least possible game time).

quote: Originally posted by Jamski Well, first of all try and do Tactics with a normal party on normal difficulty. That's harder than any "special challenge" THEN Try the solo Tactics.

Yes, I think you're right. It's time I gritted my teeth and played with tactics. I do have Ascension installed, but have yet to win the big finale, so getting some practice in with tactics would probably help .

Are there any parts of tactics which should be avoided? I've had trouble with Ascension crashing on me and had to uninstall some of it...

On the subject of tactics, I have written my own variant of the Improved Mages section thereof, and it could probably do with some testing by somebody other than me.

I wrote it mainly to test the new version of the detectable spells I had put together, so the focus is on the mages trying to be really clever about examining what spells you have cast on you (and what they have cast on themselves), and responding accordingly. There are risks with trying to be really clever, of course, but I hope I've avoided most of them. It's certainly smarter than the tactics mages, and doesn't cheat so much.

It seems to work quite well - I've tested it with a normal party game through SoA and Watcher's Keep, and noticed a marked improvement in the performance of mages (particularly liches, but I was forbidding myself Protection from Undead scrolls... The Twisted Rune was worst, of course, I think I had to leave it until the very end of SoA, but I can't remember for sure). Would anyone care to give it a try (It requires ToB)?

quote: THEN Try solo naked jester Tactics.

For some strange reason my brain interperets this as easier than tactics with a party - perhaps it's suffering from an integer overflow...

quote: I don't reccommend no items with a non-spellcaster when using Tactics though. There are too many creatures you WILL NOT BE ABLE TO EVEN HURT without +whatever weapons.

Well, that's why I chose Monk - with +3 fists, only Kangaxx is untouchable.

spoiler(highlight to read): Although, I did have problems in Irenicus's dungeon, when you get ambushed by the two golems, because my fists weren't yet enchanted so I had to dodge past them and run away... With tactics installed there would be rather more things I'd just have to run past and not kill (which is very unsatisfactory). Even so, there are ways around being unable to hurt someone - such as using your Bhaalspawn abilities (if you have the right kind, but they are so feeble that they would require absurdly cheesily frequent reloading, and would be hopeless against regenerating opponents - Bodhi springs to mind), and then later there's the option of Slayer Change. However, I think you're right - it could well be impossible. In particular, I can't think of any way to get through Bodhi (using tactics or not) without some items or enchanted fists or decent spells... But if I can come up with a couple of ideas of the top of my head, then I'm sure there must be more out there to be found )

In any case, for non-spellcasters I think it would probably be wise to change "no items" into "weapons only". If that's too easy I guess you could advance to "weapons only, and only ever using one hand".

quote: Oh, and a nice challenge is the no-reload solo run

Meaning reload only if you die, or stop completely if you die? I guess it would focus your mind a little .

quote: I normally take the first roll of the dice for the starting stats too...

Do you allow yourself to fiddle the numbers, or just accept what you're offered immediately without complaint?

quote: BUT You need to know and use massive cheese tactics to get though the harder challenges. At the very least you should be stealing EVERYTHING in Atkatla & Trademeet after ODing on Potions of Master Thievery

I have yet to steal anything from a shop in any game of BG - I seem unable to play non-lawful alignments (I'm just too much of a goody two-shoes ), but for the sake of cheese, I might be able to bring myself to .

I'm a little out of practice for those tactics I decided were simply too cheesy to use, but I'm sure they'll come back to me if the need arises.

Anyway, thanks for the advice, I will gird myself to install tactics once my current games are done .

	26-04-2004 15:21									#414
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I'd like to see you start stealing from shops in the game without reloads.

I too was unaware that there was a time limit on the game. I'm a long way in, but still on chapter 3, mostly due to my wandering around lost and resting frequently, but it's my first time through so that's understandable.

	26-04-2004 15:27									#415
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue A year possibly? I didn't know there was one either, but then I've never played through ToB yet. My current party will do though

It might well be a year, but I don't know how many days there are in a year in the BGII universe...

	26-04-2004 15:34									#416
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If you want to test it then just spend the game either pressing the rest button, or travelling non-stop from the Gnoll stronghold to BG and back.
At least with the latter option, you'll get the odd fight in between.

	26-04-2004 15:49									#417
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quote: Originally posted by duke o' york If you want to test it then just spend the game either pressing the rest button, or travelling non-stop from the Gnoll stronghold to BG and back. At least with the latter option, you'll get the odd fight in between.

Clicking rest 1000-odd times is not really my idea of a great evening in .

I know where to find the number on the interplay forums, but they seem to be down at the moment

quote: Our message boards are currently unavailable. Please check again later.

. Perhaps there's a forum-killing plague going around...

	26-04-2004 16:22									#418
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quote: Originally posted by duke o' york I left the cursed artefact in the tomb though - does anything good happen if you steal it?

Interesting, yes. Good, no.

quote: Originally posted by duke o' york Also, how can I decursificate the sword? I'd be very keen on having a +3 sword, but have no idea whence I can get a remove curse spell. Do temples do that?

You can't. A remove curse spell with remove the curse on someone using it, ie, if will de-equip it, but re-equiping it again means you get cursed again. Also means the resale value is only 500.

quote: Originally posted by duke o' york I've nothing further to do in the south, apart from the Firewine bridge, and to get some Ankheg armour built, but the Ankhegs are to the north anyway. I'll be off bandit hunting then.

Ankheg armour also takes ages to make. 10 days IIRC.

	26-04-2004 16:29									#419
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I knew that it would take a long time, so I was hoping to go and get three or four Ankheg shells, hatloads of cash, and then let the blacksmith in Beregost do his work while I go off and advance the plot.
I didn't know about the curse thing though. That's rubbish.

Back to the time limit on the game: will this give me the time to play BG and ToSC, or will it carry on afterwards?
Also, if I take my PC through to BGII, then can I choose a ranger kit for her, or will she always be a bog standard one? (and can I take the bracers of archery with me? )

	26-04-2004 16:39									#420
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quote: Originally posted by duke o' york Back to the time limit on the game: will this give me the time to play BG and ToSC, or will it carry on afterwards? Also, if I take my PC through to BGII, then can I choose a ranger kit for her, or will she always be a bog standard one? (and can I take the bracers of archery with me? )

The time limit's for BGII. You always start BGII at the same time, so BGI has no time limit, I'm aware of.

You can't take items with you, except for the Golden Pantaloons, and I'm not sure of kitting a chatacter into BGII, I think you can, but not sure at all. I've only ever done it with Tutu (when you can't).