26-05-2004 05:35									#301
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

As for Paul ya Quinn, Gav and you have beat him. paul will not admit the loses to those two, be interesting what he says about your win. Also Yes your point know your opponent, on the other hand you have to admit playing a stranger or assumed stranger means having a solid game plan.

Yes gav and I tested this game formula, I tested it against Yoda and gav and math in a game. I found myself in commie before turn 90 and several techs ahead of Yoda. Try that some time
But seriously it does work the science is quite nice.
The trick is balance, growth, science and units. One I have yet to find.

	26-05-2004 05:57									#302
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quote: Originally posted by blackice Also Yes your point know your opponent, on the other hand you have to admit playing a stranger or assumed stranger means having a solid game plan.

Yeah I agree...I have played a few guys lately..one named Traveler..and one named doug.. ..

real easy prey..if anyone ever gets to play them.

Peace

Grandpa "Chameleon"Troll

	26-05-2004 07:22									#303
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Heh obviously no one from here I have noticed a few newbies too. They rarely chat and or stick around.

Ok here is a screen shot of a test game with the strategy Gavrushka and I are talking about. Keep in mind this is advances based on NO doubles, NO triples simply single trade cities. Only 16 trades routes too, so it shows the power of this strategy. Factories being built and city size and average 0f 3. Top 8 cities 4 or better and a total of 38 cities. Again commie before turn 100 even with sucky trade. 1000 science was achieved before turn 86, in fact science was in the 900's for 20 turns or so to this point. No science cities built either, not one acadamy etc. No workers on science either.

So basic science.

Attachment: test1.jpg
This has been downloaded 94 time(s).

	26-05-2004 07:25									#304
	Inflate your Upload Space

Also Note the 9 science bug...Reloaded three times now... I think it is noai patch anyone else see this?

I may add about the above post, until commie all techs two turns only. Thats right 2 turns even ag.

	26-05-2004 08:04									#305
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Ok there ya go turn 93 was when commie happened, I waited 3 turns for it.

	26-05-2004 08:32									#306
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Image

	26-05-2004 11:47									#307
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

It was about turn 90 I went from several techs behind ice to getting commie first.. Don't be fooled by goods creating science... LAND does too.. U work mountains and ocean and real big gold grabber.. The difference in land accounting as much for this as trade goods.. When I grabbed electricity and threw up the advanced mines science got moved about 20% higher. Easily paying for factories and all improvements... Anyone with a size 4+ city working advanced mines without market and bank there should be shot!

	26-05-2004 15:49									#308
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thanks for the link, hatschy.

"the strategy" you talked about, blackice, is building caravans early, before granary and aquaducts, right ?

	26-05-2004 15:58									#309
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I would never build a caravan before a Granary.. I think the granary is the fundamentally most important structure in the game, in essence halving growth time.. I WOULD now build caravans before aquaducts. Granary dictates city size later in the game. If you note in the games I play, I usually have the biggest cities as I always endeavour to get a Granary out between size 1 and 2 growth.. EVEN if this means slowing growth of city initially to make sure granary is ready on time.. And buying if necessary.

	26-05-2004 16:15									#310
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i feel i have to play with you again next saturday

	26-05-2004 17:37									#311
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quote: Originally posted by Gavrushka It was about turn 90 I went from several techs behind ice to getting commie first.. Don't be fooled by goods creating science... LAND does too.. U work mountains and ocean and real big gold grabber.. The difference in land accounting as much for this as trade goods.. When I grabbed electricity and threw up the advanced mines science got moved about 20% higher. Easily paying for factories and all improvements... Anyone with a size 4+ city working advanced mines without market and bank there should be shot!

What do you mean :"real big gold grabber"

	26-05-2004 17:42									#312
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i think he wanted to say that mountains are real big gold grabber, or that you become a real big gold grabber if you do this.

	26-05-2004 19:05									#313
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Thats right .. Let me put it another way... Mountains with advanced mines are a real big Gold Grabber!

	26-05-2004 19:27									#314
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ICE Did you know that you had rations set at 10 under Theo?? Why would you do that??? Even with distant.. VERY distant cities a temple would be a fine build without dropping growth by a 1/3 for entire civ?

	26-05-2004 20:29									#315
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Yes I simply wanted the test to go at best happiness rate. Growth was not an issue. As you know I usually try to maintain max food. That is to say slider to the left max.

	30-05-2004 03:50									#316
	Remove this text

Doesn t anybody uses slavers (for growth sake)?
And why changing government to communism or fascism, and not holding on to theocracy?
If anyone knows any good hints just let me know.
thanx

	30-05-2004 03:54									#317
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quote: Originally posted by Johny Cartonny Doesn t anybody uses slavers (for growth sake)? And why changing government to communism or fascism, and not holding on to theocracy? If anyone knows any good hints just let me know. thanx

Actually..I would suggest staying in anarchy..

For real..you can have 1000 cities i believe?




Grandpa Troll

	30-05-2004 05:21									#318
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well, johny, with slavers it is such a thing. if you dont have much to enslave, as is the case in some game setups, then building slavers is mostly a waste of production. but if used wisely, they can indeed be a force to be reckoned with. if you expect many small fights that you win, then having a slaver with the troops is certainly a good idea. also it is useful to concentrate as many slaves in one city as possible to have that super-city build the more expensive things.

as for the government change. both communism and fascism allow for 70 cities instead of the 40 of theocracy, so you can expand even further. often you will find yourself peacefully expanding to just below 40 cities and ready to go to war, but those precious enemy cities will push you over the top.
also, communism is superb in production, fascim in military strength. and also vice versa they are still better or equal than theocracy.

	31-05-2004 04:26									#319
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Thanx (didn t know that you could have 70 cities under com and fas )
Another question: When do you begin with producing public works?

	31-05-2004 04:35									#320
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quote: Originally posted by Johny Cartonny Thanx (didn t know that you could have 70 cities under com and fas ) Another question: When do you begin with producing public works?

Infrastructure comes with Engineering

	31-05-2004 04:36									#321
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quote: Originally posted by Johny Cartonny Thanx (didn t know that you could have 70 cities under com and fas ) Another question: When do you begin with producing public works?

Best once you get some granaries built..so that the growth you experience with the food bonus offsets the slight-slight slowdown in production by placing pw to say 20-30%

Peace

GT

	02-06-2004 20:24									#322
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I start pw at 10% with first city. Note no production penalty for 10%. It all goes to fisheries at size three to mines. Generally like Grandpa Troll 20-30% after granaries.

	02-06-2004 21:30									#323
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quote: Originally posted by blackice I start pw at 10% with first city. Note no production penalty for 10%. It all goes to fisheries at size three to mines. Generally like Grandpa Troll 20-30% after granaries.

I dont use 10% or 20% pw at the beginning. I use 100% of my production for PW after mills or factories

	02-06-2004 23:56									#324
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by filix I dont use 10% or 20% pw at the beginning. I use 100% of my production for PW after mills or factories

So you begin your pw always after agricultural revolution?
And how many turns do you set your pw at 100%?

BTW: Is the 13% on pw an exploit/bug or something (cause i read that the 59% on science was a bug )

thanx for the tips

	03-06-2004 00:01									#325
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ya it is same bug. When did it happen to you?

	03-06-2004 00:25									#326
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The pw bug happens when I go to hundred and then go down again, then the counter doesnt make steps of ten.
Never have known science to be just 60%.
It has always been 59% (to my notice).

But I assume its not allowed to use the 13% on pw, or is it?

	03-06-2004 01:58									#327
	Put an end to popups!

IF we discover what causes this bug, then it certainly wont be allowed.

as for PW, i am more a supporter of deciding on case to case instead of sticking to a general rule.
a while ago i posted a loooong post about how i actually draw PW from my production. im using several options, for more or less PW, from which i choose depending on how much and how urgent i need PW.
generally spoken, i try to resist the temptation of spending PW everywhere (which is rather hard for me sometimes ) and instead evaluate from game to game. i think it is a good idea to quickly generate PW at some point in the game when you have around 10 cities to power up a few of your cities that are sitting near mountains. ocean/mountain cities are always candidates for this, but also grassland/river/mountain cities.

if you have only one city that produces an item next turn, it is obvious that any PW setting that will still produce the item the next turn is free lunch.
for several cities it becomes more difficult as there is no absolute 'free lunch' anymore, but rather you have to set priorities. that is the basic idea of my method and the miscellaneous options i mentionend. i will see if i can find this post...

	03-06-2004 02:41									#328
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Try using infastructure more effectivly at an early stage, get the science little faster

	03-06-2004 03:38									#329
	Increase Your PM Length

Yeh I use Infra when I don't need caravans.. I keep it infra between aqua and Mills if nothing else required, and then PW setting does not slow build queues and allows other cities to catch up..

I am a great believer in setting infra very early though...

	03-06-2004 05:53									#330
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quote: Originally posted by Gavrushka Yeh I use Infra when I don't need caravans.. I keep it infra between aqua and Mills if nothing else required, and then PW setting does not slow build queues and allows other cities to catch up.. I am a great believer in setting infra very early though...

I think you are saying that you build infrastructure in a few cities that are between aqua and Mills but have granaries. Right?

Also, you do this, instead of pushing 20% or 30% on the PW slider. Yeah?

I never typically pushed it over 10% though.

Sometimes I will push it all the way to 100% for a couple of turns when things seem a little stalled, or you have a new item in you tile improvements available that is useful. Like big nets or mines or even rail. When they first come out.