13-05-2004 18:48									#241
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Three is ideal, I agree with you on that. But as you say, you need a big rock...

	13-05-2004 18:54									#242
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a big c*** ?

oh... misread

	13-05-2004 18:56									#243
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quote: Originally posted by Mathemagician a big c*** ? oh... misread

Math, that was distinctly Freudian.. I am beginning to worry about you..

	13-05-2004 18:58									#244
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quote: Originally posted by Gavrushka Math, that was distinctly Freudian.. I am beginning to worry about you..

im sorry.
got it now. but why do you need only one big rock and not two big rocks then ?

	13-05-2004 19:01									#245
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.. Are we STILL speaking at cross purposes?? For my European friend, a big rock, in this instance, refers to a Large mountainous Island..

	13-05-2004 19:04									#246
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quote: Originally posted by Gavrushka .. Are we STILL speaking at cross purposes?? For my European friend, a big rock, in this instance, refers to a Large mountainous Island..

if you want to put it this way..
oh well, gotta take a 'ride' with my handcuffed psychotherapist...

	13-05-2004 19:07									#247
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got a picture of her

Attachment: handcuff.jpg
This has been downloaded 70 time(s).

	13-05-2004 19:21									#248
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Math.. U got a yourself a pic of my ex Mel!! I don't believe it.. only difference is she wears longer boots..

	13-05-2004 19:27									#249
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quote: Originally posted by Gavrushka Math.. U got a yourself a pic of my ex Mel!! I don't believe it.. only difference is she wears longer boots..

who ? Mel ?
strange. i have found a picture in the net looking exactly like my first love Jana, i have found another picture in the net looking exactly like the big crush of a friend of mine and now this.. err... well, yes this picture is from the net, i dont have any psychotherapist handcuffed to my bed...

	13-05-2004 19:30									#250
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Yeh, Mel.. Long dark hair, but more curly than wavy, tall, slender,cracking legs, smouldering brown eyes, a smile like the sun rising.. No wonder she dumped me..

I saw the pic U sent that looked like your ex.. pretty Gal..

..We need a strategy guide for getting ex's back...

	13-05-2004 19:33									#251
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quote: Originally posted by Gavrushka I saw the pic U sent that looked like your ex.. pretty Gal..

not my ex. just my ex-big-crush-love-girl.

quote: Originally posted by Gavrushka ..We need a strategy guide for getting ex's back...

or in the first place. yeah.

	13-05-2004 19:36									#252
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A bit of Philosophy..

Life really is a conveyor belt that moves fast.. If we ever try to get off to recover something we left behind we end up slipping and falling when we try to get back on.. Accept the past is just that, and keep riding forwards..

	13-05-2004 19:39									#253
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quote: Originally posted by Gavrushka Accept the past is just that, and keep riding forwards..

which direction would that be ?

	13-05-2004 20:21									#254
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In some cases like mine dancing madly backwards.

Ok so you've been beaten to ships, enemy ships eveywhere, not sols just lots of ships/ ok they attack your trade and your fisheries and landing troops on your mines. What do you do?

One strategy, don't fret, build infra, caravans and troops to guard your mountains. Lay low until you have the ships to counter then build tons of them. Chances are your enemy will get complacent thinking he has you bagged. Unlease all your ships and pound theirs. Then drop fisheries and mines at will with the massive infra. Then create the humungous trade with the stored caravans.

Use a few groups of ships to harass thier civ and the rest to sell off to catch up in buildings. Same with the troops, do not build buildings during this whole period as your science will suffer greatly. In fact your science will slow but continue to grow if you do not spend gold on buildings. You will also see your pg soar so will they...

So within 5 turns of clearing your sea zones your civ will grow huge in a short period of time with the trade created and the infrastructure. The dead zone will be gone and in fact get you right back in the game real quick. P.S. You will need three to one ships so do not be shy on building them. You are going to use them to disband and create more building anyway.

Last edited by blackice on 13-05-2004 at 20:34

	13-05-2004 22:55									#255
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GULP!!

I feel this may be something I will see put to the practice soon...

	14-05-2004 01:08									#256
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blackice,
does all this assume, as you said, the ships are pre-SOL types ? did you try this strategy ? it sounds like it takes massive ressources compared to the situation you are in.

	14-05-2004 01:40									#257
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Gav I'm not sure if it applies to you as you never venture in before sols.

Math Yes I have use this many times, you can apply it to land games also. As in the above conversation with Gav and Quinn. I did do this and applied the factories behind the scenes in a game with Quinn. (land) I won that one.

Yes resources it takes more of yours then there's where you are the one controlling the goods, mines and science of the opposing player. They are continuing to build city size, buildings and science while you are dormant, to some degree.

Yes Math but do not forget the "comfort zone" everyone has one. Very few players press early in the game. Most are satisfied with dominance and continue to build buildings and science. One forget's that once sol's are out in mass and or troops in mass science can be easly taken with the conquered city. So you soon catch up and in fact quickly begin to control the game and push your opponent into the defensive posture. Factories and mills can be easly had with the cashing in of a few unwanted older units. This is true especially if all cities produce these units at the same time or close. Rarely a turn goes by without a large defence and or offence. Once in position you can start a factory or two and supply a mass of troops to feed the building frenzy.

Remember it takes 3-1 on the average to win any battles in this game so again feel free to over produce troops. They can always be cashed in for buildings that make a difference.

Another example would be massed produced cannons when faced with troves of sols. As most say it can not be done I have done it more than once. This especially works well with early producers of sols. They have a hard time catching up with the cannon production especially where distance is a factor.

As you can see by this image from turn 99 on this was applied. From turn 108 ships were built with 3-1 in mind as was infra in all other cities. From 115 ships deployed and thse cities making ships became caravan producers. From that point on ifra and trade was applied. This pg will fall one turn then go right back up as the ifra and trade kick in. More over science will be fast as will growth.

Now especially in head to head matches where pg x3 is the rule this game was long over... Now how is that for a straight up pg. Smooth eh gav? Studying these turns I have saved over the years have shown me a few things, This being one of them, combine this with the ai strategy said earlier and sit back and watch your pg soar.

Attachment: pg1.jpg
This has been downloaded 66 time(s).

Last edited by blackice on 14-05-2004 at 01:49

	14-05-2004 02:04									#258
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quote: Originally posted by blackice I did do this and applied the factories behind the scenes in a game with Quinn. (land) I won that one.

Yes, I can attest to that loss. I remember, it was one of my very first games against a human player (if blackice is human) in 1999, I think, and a good lesson it was! Thanks for the lesson.

	14-05-2004 02:06									#259
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quote: Originally posted by quinns I remember, it was one of my very first games against a human player (if blackice is human) in 1999, I think, and a good lesson it was!

CTP existed already in 1999 ?

	14-05-2004 02:21									#260
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Quinn your dating us.

	14-05-2004 05:28									#261
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Are you saying that you blue PG went up like that building nothing but infra + SOL's? About how many cities infra? How many SOL's. what about land lock cities?

	14-05-2004 05:50									#262
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No sol's check none, infra and ships about 10 ships, cities 25 or so and then caravans. As I said this pg will stall then go right back up as caravans and infra and then sols make there way out. I may add the only reason that pg is dropping is because of the ships...

I used to play this way a lot, I am now trying to balance early growth with this. Gav and I just had game online, I used this and early caravans and rush buy with useless tiremes. I will beat him to commie by about 15 turns so it seems and at least 6 techs. Anyone playing Gav knows this to be quite the feat.

The next 15 turns will tell if it is worth it as growth is what I wait for now. Timming is all and my science is halted until the cities grow.

As the immortal "H" once said "until ren cities grow on thier own" So why build gold and science sucking structures when mills, markets, banks, infra and caravans are where it is at. The infra is the key to fast growth, gold and science.

Last edited by blackice on 14-05-2004 at 05:59

	14-05-2004 22:56									#263
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Ok so it worked somewhat, I have a bug it is the "9" bug i'll call it. Anyone else experience science and pw that shows as 59 instead of 60 etc?

	15-05-2004 00:28									#264
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i think there are some rounding errors in the pre-estimations.

	15-05-2004 02:44									#265
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@filix
are you online now ?

@blackice
do you know how to play online with winXP if you dont have a proxy server (not over LAN) ?

	15-05-2004 03:20									#266
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Math? A question.. do you EVER sleep! LOL

	15-05-2004 03:37									#267
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ice, a friend and i are trying to play over LAN, or respectively play online using a LAN connection for our 2 computers.

	15-05-2004 03:51									#268
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gary, could you please go to the nl server and tell me if you see my friend "Torsten" ? thanks

	15-05-2004 04:21									#269
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nevermind

	15-05-2004 04:36									#270
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Apologies!