20-04-2004 23:25									#181
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin Note: the latest all-in-one city screen is very pretty, if the center map could be a bit zoomed out...

Well, you can already view the map at different zoom levels, so perhaps it would be ensible to have two distinct zoom levels that the game remembers - one for the city screen and one for the normal view, so you could, if you wished, have a much more zoomed-out view whenever the city screen is open, or, if you prefer, just use the default zoom for both all the time.

	20-04-2004 23:29									#182
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

We also need to consider what happens to the 800x600 setup on higher resolutions. I guess it would be simplest if the various components be anchored at the corners, and recede into them as the resolution increases, but on the other hand it would be nice if the various components were still relatively close together so it's not necessary to drag the mouse all over the screen all the time.

	21-04-2004 00:49									#183
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

OK Tamerlin, I'm with you now Hopefully once the design is complete the different sections of the dialog box will be differentiated well and a visual delight.

A zoomed out map view in the city dialog box would be OK by me. I just can't imagine how it would be programmed. How about the ability to zoom the map in and out within the dialog box? (and a button that makes fresh coffee would be nice)

As far as this dialog box at higher res I assumed it would be handled the same as the current one, dragable.

	21-04-2004 00:53									#184
	Tired of ads?

quote: A zoomed out map view in the city dialog box would be OK by me. I just can't imagine how it would be programmed. How about the ability to zoom the map in and out within the dialog box?

Since the game has zoom levels already, I'm sure that coming up with a way to do that would be quite possible.

quote: As far as this dialog box at higher res I assumed it would be handled the same as the current one, dragable.

Should we do that? If it's made fixed (not draggable), then at higher resolutions one will see more of the map in middle of it...

	21-04-2004 01:04									#185
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Solver Should we do that? If it's made fixed (not draggable), then at higher resolutions one will see more of the map in middle of it...

Do you see the map part of the dialog box as a hole, with the background screen showing through?

	21-04-2004 01:07									#186
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I mean that even at higher resolutions, all borders would be occuiped by the control window, as in Hex's design, and that the higher the resolution, the bigger the hole in between would get.

	21-04-2004 01:12									#187
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by OnePresent As far as this dialog box at higher res I assumed it would be handled the same as the current one, dragable.

Draggable all in one piece, or in lots of different bits? The former would look a bit silly (with the hole in the middle and around the outside, and if the latter, where do we put the boundaries (obviously can't be answered until the design is more finalized, but something to bear in mind).

	21-04-2004 01:15									#188
	Tired of ads?

Well, what's the actual advantage of having it draggable - especially if it's as big as that? Even at 1280x1024, it would still take up most of the screen anyway....

	21-04-2004 01:18									#189
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Solver Well, what's the actual advantage of having it draggable - especially if it's as big as that? Even at 1280x1024, it would still take up most of the screen anyway....

But Locutus plays at 1600x1200...

	21-04-2004 01:21									#190
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Solver I mean that even at higher resolutions, all borders would be occuiped by the control window, as in Hex's design, and that the higher the resolution, the bigger the hole in between would get.

Oh. That would be one helluva design challange.

No matter what we decide an 800x600 design needs to be complete, work great, and look great. If we want it to be a super expandable dialog box then we can address that issue next.

	21-04-2004 01:23									#191
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Yeah, in 10 years I'll play at 3096xsomething on my 35" flat-screen monitor-TV . Or maybe I'll still be using a 15" monitor at 800x600, more my style.

Heck this forum's active . I posted some 60 posts today...

	21-04-2004 01:23									#192
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Oh. That would be one helluva design challange.

It would, I suggested it knowing that I would in most likelihood not be the one having to actually implement it, though, what do you think .

	21-04-2004 01:25									#193
	Support Apolyton

I tried to incorporate the build manager into the city screen as well (as in Hex's version). It works, but it gets awfully crowded on the righthand pane...


I think in larger resolutions it would be best if the screen could be split in two functionally sensible sections (e.g. resource collection and build queue/inventory) dock with two of the corners of the screen.

Attachment: cityscreen4.jpg
This has been downloaded 49 time(s).

	21-04-2004 01:28									#194
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Solver Well, what's the actual advantage of having it draggable - especially if it's as big as that? Even at 1280x1024, it would still take up most of the screen anyway....

If it's draggable, like it is now I can shove most of the dialog box off the screen. Say well off the right side of the screen with only the left edge of the dialog box showing. I find that useful now.

However, with a map in the box (especially a resizable map), draggability may be a mute point.

	21-04-2004 01:29									#195
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Solver Well, what's the actual advantage of having it draggable - especially if it's as big as that? Even at 1280x1024, it would still take up most of the screen anyway....

Only 36,7% of the screen actually.

	21-04-2004 01:37									#196
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Locutus I tried to incorporate the build manager into the city screen as well (as in Hex's version). It works, but it gets awfully crowded on the righthand pane...

On that version I think the components on the left hand side need to be permuted so that the spinners for labour are next to the quantities of resources at the top, so you can see the effects of changes more easily.

	21-04-2004 01:40									#197
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

DP

	21-04-2004 01:51									#198
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I think we could dispense with quite a lot of the buttons in favour of keyboard shortcuts. I guess this would have to be optional since there's nothing harder when you're new to a game than learning a bunch of bizarre keyboard shorcuts, but it would be handy to free up more space for the various listboxes in the construction section.

	21-04-2004 02:01									#199
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Locutus I think in larger resolutions it would be best if the screen could be split in two functionally sensible sections (e.g. resource collection and build queue/inventory) dock with two of the corners of the screen.

Yeah, a tab that switches in the build functions may just be the ticket.

	21-04-2004 02:27									#200
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by OnePresent Do you see the map part of the dialog box as a hole, with the background screen showing through?

It would have the advantage to allow for city selection and thus access to the city's screen through... the city screen.

	21-04-2004 02:30									#201
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

small brain fart - how about some graphical reference to lemurs on the main screen, could be small, maybe even a button to some kinda easter egg thing?

	21-04-2004 02:31									#202
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by J Bytheway I think we could dispense with quite a lot of the buttons in favour of keyboard shortcuts.

I am using few keyboard shortcuts, it would make the game very difficult to play as far as I am concerned.

	21-04-2004 02:36									#203
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Locutus, though I prefer One Present interface with the map at the center you seem to have found the right zoom level.

	21-04-2004 02:44									#204
	Put an end to popups!

Yeah, the zoom level in Locutus's last screen is good.

As for tabs, buttons, switches and whatnot - I want to be able to give construction orders with as few clicks as possible, that's the most common function for cities, after all. Also, I want to always see the food/production/science/etc numbers and specialist buttons.... if any of the other parts is toggled on/off with a tab, I'm perfectly fine with it. As it is now, you need an additional button to get to Build manager from City manager, which is IMO annoying.

	21-04-2004 03:04									#205
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Locutus' screen.... City Dharma, Mayor Happiness

	21-04-2004 08:19									#206
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

The second layout by Locutus does not work. The first one is much better in terms of layout. Optimal map zoom can be worked out. The window needs to be 600x800 max because that is the resolution of the game (even if I enjoy playing at 1200x1600 on my partner's work laptop )

	21-04-2004 08:49									#207
	Full PM-box? Change here!

These are the roughest sketches to date

The concept trying to be shown here is a tabbed area with 2 tabs. One is the build interface. The second is the status interface with the item currently being built.

Presented in two screens. Please imagine this looking professional as a final product.

Attachment: citywithstatustab.jpg
This has been downloaded 38 time(s).

	21-04-2004 08:49									#208
	Tired of ads?

Now with the build tab selected....

Attachment: citywithbuildtab.jpg
This has been downloaded 38 time(s).

	21-04-2004 08:53									#209
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

As I put this together another option came to mind that may be a better use of the tabs. Instead of having tabs for status and build, have tabs for build and map view. When is the map view least needed??? Maybe when using the build interface??

OK, that's run up the flagpole, let's see if anyone salutes it.

	21-04-2004 09:08									#210
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

The problem I have with this setup (which is based on The second layout by Locutus) is that the information on the left is so chopped-up and all over the place that it is impossible to use and this information is why I use the city screen! The build queue is a nice add-on but we already have a build manager. I think clicking on a build button in the city screen should open the build manager window as currently happens. (unless someone comes up with an idea that works)