19-04-2004 05:20									#151
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Maybe this needs its own topic, but I thought it would be good to get the ball rolling here. What are our potential graphic needs?

There's the All-in-one city screen that's been posted somewhere, that would be great to have.

Also the much discussed interface that changes with the ages, very cool.

Will we need an super-strength mod loading/mod combination screen?

E is working on tilesets.

Have other ideas been mentioned? It would be smart to start thinking about some of the graphic needs ahead of time.

	19-04-2004 14:03									#152
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we need new civ diplomacy parchments

Also at the moment I am working on underwater and some new units.

	19-04-2004 14:33									#153
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Maybe there should be another sprite request thread (if there ever was one), with the scripting in PSP8 i think its quite possible to convert a civ3 FLC in under a month now.

	19-04-2004 15:04									#154
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try a day

	19-04-2004 15:08									#155
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I was being sarcastic but ok could you have the Jaguar Warrior converted by 11:06 tomorrow?

	19-04-2004 15:31									#156
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that’s a full day to do it in. and seen as i don't have accesses to the flc file or a free day I can't help but the hard part will be making the script.

	19-04-2004 15:45									#157
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Yeah i was trying to do it last night, exporting the frames and batch renaming them, i renamed about 60 frames in the wrong order

I also noticed some of the flc animation frames are larger dimensions than others, like death is usuallt the largest picture. That will be tricky but obviously its possible to do by script. Also the flc are smaller, but if you remove the background+shadow first, then resize the unit and the seperate shadow image seperately (without distortion or merging of pixels) it should be simple.

	20-04-2004 03:12									#158
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quote: Originally posted by The Big Mc we need new civ diplomacy parchments

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Are you saying when all the additional options are added this graphic will need work, or does it need work in its present incarnation?

From the lack of responses I assume the above list covers things well enough for now. I'd like to start playing around in finalizing the graphics for the unified city dialog box. (Who did the original?) Is the programming for this going to be a huge undertaking and something well down the road, or is the general consensus the sooner the better?

Who's in charge here?

	20-04-2004 03:24									#159
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quote: Originally posted by OnePresent From the lack of responses I assume the above list covers things well enough for now. I'd like to start playing around in finalizing the graphics for the unified city dialog box. (Who did the original?) Is the programming for this going to be a huge undertaking and something well down the road, or is the general consensus the sooner the better?

I would say that it is a huge undertaking, and the sooner the better too .

I think, however, that the existence of the graphics would spur the programmers into action (it worked with me and your last graphic )

quote: Who's in charge here?

In theory, that would be either Keygen, Locutus or maybe MarkG/DanQ depending on what you're asking for the person in charge of. In practice, I think anarchy is the most significant ruling influence...

	20-04-2004 03:28									#160
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at the moment in the vanilla game actoivision made parchments to represent who the diplomacy proposal was from. It is 2d art. I don't know if anybody has made a collection of new ones for moders to use.

I was wondering if you were interested as it is your field of interest.

	20-04-2004 03:56									#161
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quote: Originally posted by The Big Mc at the moment in the vanilla game actoivision made parchments to represent who the diplomacy proposal was from. It is 2d art. I don't know if anybody has made a collection of new ones for moders to use. I was wondering if you were interested as it is your field of interest.

Not a perfect fit. But if things get held up with no one stepping up, I would be willing to give it a try. I'm always concerned about volunteering because paying jobs can come in and occupy all my time. I have some time tonight to start thinking about the city screen.

At first glance I see why the city screen is tabbed. 800x600 is too small of a space to fit all the information at one time. I really hate to have design dictate most anything, but just to float an idea, what if the minimum screen res became 1024x768? Heck, that may even be too tight.

	20-04-2004 05:46									#162
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Here is the roughest of rough sketches. 800 by 600 baby. This is ONLY to get an idea if everything can fit on one screen this size. Some things are squeezed and will need to be fixed. Lots of other things need to be done... This sketch is just to generate initial feedback.

However this layout doesn't have room for the view of the city the original idea had (artist unkown). I really wanted that feature. Any ideas? Is a tab possible with that view? Or a center city on screen button with a "windowshade" type feature where the dialog boxes scrolls up into its title bar.

I think I'll go play some CTPII and wait for comments. And you folks on the other side of the world, how could you be sleeping now?

Attachment: 800x600 sketch.jpg
This has been downloaded 61 time(s).

	20-04-2004 06:11									#163
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I like seeing a lot more info. I know you git some great talent so I dont want to cramp your style, what are you thinking for the next stage?

I kind of like Civ3's open main screen, I almost wish that when you open screen there would be no back ground, just key info read able. The other thing could real radical, Like a blown up city view where you could see all the units and buildings there and you click on what you want to build. Just some random dreams, but I figure that may require programming too.

	20-04-2004 07:31									#164
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quote: Originally posted by E I like seeing a lot more info. I know you git some great talent so I dont want to cramp your style, what are you thinking for the next stage?

I like more info too, especially a city view. I'd also like the buy box to be much deeper. I don't like to have to scroll to purchase units. Both of these require more screen real estate which I don't see us getting unless folks like the idea of dumping 800x600 resolution. (Though that's probably not a good idea, lots of old machines out there.) Next stage is more input from the real CTPII players out there. Then I can tighten this sketch.

quote: Originally posted by E I kind of like Civ3's open main screen, I almost wish that when you open screen there would be no back ground, just key info read able. The other thing could real radical, Like a blown up city view where you could see all the units and buildings there and you click on what you want to build. Just some random dreams, but I figure that may require programming too.

I dumped Civ3 from my computer shortly after purchase so I can't see what you are referring too. I can keep the eye candy down on this screen, and with this layout some will have to be deleted. But if there's extra room, why not put it in. Not sure I know what you exactly mean with a "blown up city view." Seeing graphics in the buy box instead of text?

Thanks for the feedback.

	20-04-2004 11:57									#165
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Well, I don't know about dropping 800x600 (that will have to be discussed elsewhere), but regardless, I can see a few ways of improving the efficiency of the space available.

For one thing, the detailed views of the inventory and build queue tab are pretty much identical (with the icon, the description, sell/rush buy button), they can be merged (showing the item the player last selected, or the item currently under construction by default). Then, if you make the lists for the inventory and build queues slightly smaller, you can fit those two and the happiness and pollution lists all underneath each other. That will overlap the units section, but for those you could simply use smaller icons. Also, if you move the mayor section elsewhere, the large empty space next to the city view and growth/happiness bars can be put to some use. All of these things combined should leave some room for a map view.

Very rough photoshop job to show what I mean:

Attachment: cityview.jpg
This has been downloaded 55 time(s).

	20-04-2004 13:13									#166
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In Locutus's setup, we could add an "expand" button for the build queue which would stretch it down over the top of the pollution/happiness lists and give you much more space to look at what's available, and that would solve OnePresent's dilemma.

	20-04-2004 13:46									#167
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quote: Originally posted by OnePresent I like more info too, especially a city view. I'd also like the buy box to be much deeper. I don't like to have to scroll to purchase units. Both of these require more screen real estate which I don't see us getting unless folks like the idea of dumping 800x600 resolution. (Though that's probably not a good idea, lots of old machines out there.) Next stage is more input from the real CTPII players out there. Then I can tighten this sketch. Thanks for the feedback.

I completely agree, I don't like scrolling either when building my queues. (And no, I can't always use the default queue)

And as usual, the unit/building you are looking for, is at the bottom of the list

quote: In Locutus's setup, we could add an "expand" button for the build queue which would stretch it down over the top of the pollution/happiness lists and give you much more space to look at what's available, and that would solve OnePresent's dilemma.

Actually can't we check for the mouse-position and if you enter the field for > 1 second or click in there expand? Similar for the other once (if needed)? Would make it maybe easier, than clicking always a button...................

	20-04-2004 13:55									#168
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quote: Originally posted by Gilgamensch Actually can't we check for the mouse-position and if you enter the field for > 1 second or click in there expand? Similar for the other once (if needed)? Would make it maybe easier, than clicking always a button...................

Personally I wouldn't like that, but I'm sure we can make it an option .

	20-04-2004 14:01									#169
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quote: Originally posted by J Bytheway Personally I wouldn't like that, but I'm sure we can make it an option .

The reason why I thought about this option: If you don't want to wait, you just click in this window and it will open up, or after one second if you are too lazy to click. Actually on like SUN-Solaris that is how you can configure the window behaviour. You move over another window and it will jump to the front. Fairly easy to navigate.

	20-04-2004 18:02									#170
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Thanks folks! Great feedback.

Locutus, I like where this is headed. Very innovative combining parts of build and inventory. The main map view you show is somewhat reduced. Is that feasible? Does it need to be 100% size? Looks like there is room.

I see you've shrunk the units icons. Is that possible without reworking every graphic? If so, those could really be reduced and help tremendously with space issues. I could even see all the units stretched in one line across the bottom of the window with the activate and disband button on the same line! Big space savings there.

I'm interested in opinions on the extremely small mini-city in the upper left corner. Has anyone EVER found that usable? I haven't. Where does that image come from?. I suspect the program has to generate it when the city window is open.

J Bytheway and Gig, good ideas, keep 'em coming. I'll give this more thought too. Maybe an idea can come from the design here, instead of the reverse. Maybe the next sketch will germinate some ideas.

I suggest we move the crime statistic to the far left with the happiness/growth/and efficiency statistics. Also the build, inventory, and pollution scroll boxes are wider than needed, maybe some space can be gained there.

	20-04-2004 18:43									#171
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quote: Originally posted by OnePresent I see you've shrunk the units icons. Is that possible without reworking every graphic? If so, those could really be reduced and help tremendously with space issues. I could even see all the units stretched in one line across the bottom of the window with the activate and disband button on the same line! Big space savings there.

IIRC, the unit graphics come in two sizes - you might want to make those on this screen the same size as those on the army manager screen, for example (I believe that's the smaller size).

	20-04-2004 18:45									#172
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quote: Originally posted by OnePresent I'm interested in opinions on the extremely small mini-city in the upper left corner. Has anyone EVER found that usable? I haven't. Where does that image come from?. I suspect the program has to generate it when the city window is open.

Nope, I've never found it useful. If there's going to be space in the centre to look at the map, then just having a "centre view on this city" button would be just as good, if not better, and take up much less space...

	20-04-2004 18:57									#173
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Locutus's setup is fine, but I remember that the original idea, made by Hex, was great, too - can't remember the differences though without finding Hex's version first.

Some extra space can always be made. For instance, the citizen, worker and slave count can be crammed into one line, etc.

	20-04-2004 18:58									#174
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quote: Originally posted by OnePresent I'm interested in opinions on the extremely small mini-city in the upper left corner. Has anyone EVER found that usable? I haven't. Where does that image come from?. I suspect the program has to generate it when the city window is open.

I have never used it or at least I don't remember having learned valuable informations from it.

The "all-in-one" city screen is a good idea but as far as I am concerned I prefer the current interface because I can scroll through all my cities while filtering the information (example: checking the happiness of my cities) and because I can see in the background where is the city concerned. I have always found the reduced map of the area around the city to be pretty cumbersome. When I have 30+ cities, this map is not enough for me, I don't remember where the latest conquered cities are.

May be a zoomed out map of the area around the city would be more efficient... at least for me.

	20-04-2004 22:06									#175
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin The "all-in-one" city screen is a good idea but as far as I am concerned I prefer the current interface because I can scroll through all my cities while filtering the information (example: checking the happiness of my cities) and because I can see in the background where is the city concerned. I have always found the reduced map of the area around the city to be pretty cumbersome. When I have 30+ cities, this map is not enough for me, I don't remember where the latest conquered cities are.

Not sure I'm following you completely here, and it may be my lack of game experience. When you are scrolling through the cities, checking happiness, is that not possible with these rough layouts?

You say you can see the cities in the background. My compaint is I can't see the cities in the background because the map doesn't autocenter to them. I understand this screen will take up more real estate and make it harder/impossible to view outside of it. I often have to take the screens all the way to the edge anyway. And wouldn't the city view proposed take care of this issue anyway?

quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin May be a zoomed out map of the area around the city would be more efficient... at least for me.

How is this different from the city view shown in the sketches. I really want to be clear on these concerns so the final design works better than the current setup.

	20-04-2004 22:10									#176
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For reference, here's another proposal, by Hexagonian - IMO, that one is great. All items in place, plus some additional info, easily accessible, and the city surroundings can be seen. A double from me to that.

http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=6796_ctp2_screen.jpg

	20-04-2004 22:10									#177
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Original working concept...

Attachment: ctp2_screen2.jpg
This has been downloaded 41 time(s).

	20-04-2004 22:12									#178
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The above screen is based on a large resolution, maybe the max.

Solver!, looks like we were thinking the same thing at the same time.

Last edited by OnePresent on 20-04-2004 at 22:19

	20-04-2004 22:13									#179
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Oww now that's a crosspost if I've ever seen one . Can't get the image in my post to work properly though anyway.

Yeah, think it's based on at least 1024, if not 1280, but I'm all for 800x600 .

	20-04-2004 23:18									#180
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quote: Originally posted by OnePresent Not sure I'm following you completely here, and it may be my lack of game experience. When you are scrolling through the cities, checking happiness, is that not possible with these rough layouts?

I agree, but in an all-in-one city screen, the happiness information is displayed with a great quantity of unrelated informations whereas in the current interface I can scroll through the cities through the city screen with the happiness and the specialists view only...

All in all I think that this is just a matter of being used to the all-in-one interface, once I test it I am sure I will like it to the point I will not start a game without it.

quote: You say you can see the cities in the background. My compaint is I can't see the cities in the background because the map doesn't autocenter to them.

I guess this is something that can be easily corrected now the coders have the sourcecode.

quote: I understand this screen will take up more real estate and make it harder/impossible to view outside of it. I often have to take the screens all the way to the edge anyway. And wouldn't the city view proposed take care of this issue anyway?

If you zoom out the map at the center of the all-in-one city screen, you have a broader view of the surrounding area and you can more easily identify the city (when I own something like 40 cities I sometimes have some troubles to remember what city is what and what are its needs if I don't see the map).

Note: the latest all-in-one city screen is very pretty, if the center map could be a bit zoomed out...