10-07-2004 07:49									#121
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I did a rough calc regarding republic. It should add roughly 42 additional gold. We are only at 7 gold corruption - so I don't think we can expect huge returns there.

Our unit costs go from the current 32 up to 64, and we almost break even.

The other possibility is to build more cities in despotism. Each gives us 4 units free. We are some 8 turns away from a second city on Monkey Island.

And we can produce a couple quickly out of the core cities and place them to the NW of Macaque and Gorilla, or south of the core. Both with support, walls, etx. I appreciate what I am suggesting here.

We still need cash to complete the feudalism purchase, get invention, and start the longbow upgrades.

A market place in PC, at the current wf distribution, adds 5.5 gold per turn. The next best city is Gorilla, where we would gain 4.

Anarchy sounds good.

I will sit on the save until tomorrow.

	10-07-2004 08:35									#122
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quote: Originally posted by Beta I will sit on the save until tomorrow.

Yes, I would like to hear H_E's thoughts on this.......

Has he been around lately? I know he has been very busy as well.

	10-07-2004 19:09									#123
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Hey ..

I havent even opened the save yet ..

I have also just spent the last 4 hours playing neverwinter with some mates, and drunk a whole bottle of red

I also have a newq PC & keyborad whcih I am not used to and id making my typing very sucky ...

Does that make sense ?

Whoi knows ??

Umm .. .

Does anyone have nomarchy ?
At teh rate we will have to start disbanding a few units, and switch all production to settlers/markets etc tec

So ... Yes .. I agree to new cities.
Just some tight camps somewhere ... I really need to have a look at teh map, but its past midnioght and I gotta spew & hiot the bed.

Checkj if anyone has monarchy. Please for it.
Agre e to not to buiold the hanging gardens wetc etc

If no one has it ...
Dunnoe ... build some settler.
Anarchy
Settle some camps
Then switch back to despot

Remember, , we wont have enough cash to purchase invenmtion ... let alone fuedlaism.

Plus qwe need cash for archer -> longbow upgrades.


Beta ,,, speak to sunshibe agiain,
Tell themn upfront our predicament.
Tell them we are about to disband units,.
Forget about making money off us,
Its about GIFTING us tech to keep us alive,

I say ... on this trun ,,, skip the purchase of fuedalism.
(We dont need it anyway)
And work on them to get it for free,...

offer... 1000 years of free luxury if we survive,,,
etc etc,,

Anything ,,, we just cant afford to pay anything anymore,

Enough frokm me....

Gotta spew

Bye

	11-07-2004 00:00									#124
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Great post H_E!

I do hope you are feeling better today.

	11-07-2004 00:55									#125
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Yep all them Aussies are a bunch of drunks
Good points even though youre all buggered up.


Monarchy, Interesting idea.

Who are you talking to at Sunshine Beta? Is it Rhoth? Or is he Tambemeno?

	11-07-2004 02:38									#126
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I've been communicating with Togas on Sunshine. I'm not sure what team Rhoth is on - but that may be a good contact to work.

So - guess I should play the turn. I won't go to anarchy just yet - we have a number of units out next turn. We may need them. I will also review for settler production.

	11-07-2004 03:10									#127
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We ought to review for Market production as well.

The only thing that will help now without more cities is Markets

	11-07-2004 04:44									#128
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10bc turn played

Well - we are going with more cities. The turn is played and PC will pump out a saettler next turn. Gorilla and Macaque will produce settlers in two turns - or they can be switched to NM's, or to markets.

Producing archers (we only needed two more shields each) really wasted shields.

I got the gpt loss down to 5 gpt by moving some wf around. Dealt with Orangutan - although I am at a loss to explain why it happened, I checked last turns save - and all was fine. Must be ww.

I did not trigger any revolutions. We have some stuff to think about - and some serious diplomacy and begging to undertake.

I did not accept feudalism from Sunshine. As con has suggested - we need to talk with them.

And I sent a preliminary note to LL with the save. They are sympathetic to our cause.

A worker and warrior on monkey island changed places.

The new merc was names Ranger Simon after one of my cats.

I have some ideas for the next cities. Will post shortly.

In the meantime - here is the core:

http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php...Monkey-10bc.jpg

	16-07-2004 14:24									#129
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Save just showed up - but I have to hit the road. The wife is is bugging me. Can one of you play it please. The settler from PC can head south. One form the northern city can go north next turn. I suggest we only need one settler from the north. Change the otehr city over to a amrketplace - or another merc. PC to marketplace.

See ya.

	16-07-2004 20:11									#130
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H_E, have you looked at the save? Comments?

I can probably play tonight but no screenshots, my laptop is in Chicago with the kids and mom and thats where I have Paint Shop Pro.

Lemme know.

Ill be looking at it tonight (In about 8 hours) fro the first time. I was kind of busy last night, and didn't check email.

	17-07-2004 08:11									#131
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I wont be able to look at it for another 8 hours from this post ...

Sorry guys .. so much RL to do

	17-07-2004 16:03									#132
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Crikey



Unless anyone has a plan of how to make more money, I think we should stop building units.
We need some more cities urgently.

Below is a map of Possibilities



Site A needs a road, but our worker is nearby anyway
Site B & C are ok .. away from the action, already connected by road, and it means Gibbons protection can just move forward to the new front
Site D & E are well protected, and wont draw on our front line troops. Unfortunately, they are inside our core ring, and may cause corruption in some of our cities.
Site F will need the bulk of our protection, but is also already connected by road, and is also on a hill. It can be attacked immediately by troops from Siege Perilous.
Site G is similar to site F, but is not on a hill.
Sites H, I & J are OK spots, and can take Gorillas protection

My vote is to use the safer south
Sites C and/or B
Also, Site H & J

Use our worker to connect to site A, and we can use it as well.

Orangutan ... Switch to worker. We lose 5 shields, but we need some more workers if we plan to settle and connect more cities. Or, it can rush a settler for 1 pop. We would lose one to starvation anyway.

Next turn, if we do decide on a worker from Orangutan, I think we send it to Gorrila 7 and road.
Gorrilas settler can settle Site I
Macaque settler can settle site J1 (Not shown on my map)

Move Orangutan army to 7.
It can then move with gorilla new settler.

Move a few NMs south, ready to cover our new cities & worker.

A worker from Gibbon perhaps ?

Thats about it from me....
End of Year & Tax time is a b1tch for us accountants

	18-07-2004 18:20									#133
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10ad Played

Orangutan returns to order.
PC builds a settler
Gibbon builds a catapult

Troops a re moved doen south to cover all three cities.
PC settler begins to move south.... I suggest site B or C (B probably)
Moved a few mercs south to cover the new settler

I switched orangutan to worker.
We are going to starve a pop out anyway in a couple of turns.
We lose 4-5 shields on the archer....but I think we need another worker up north.
The city went to disorder because we poprushed something some time ago. Monkeys have long memories.

Macaque & Gorilla will produce a settler each next turn.

PC & the other 3 southern cities all have various builds than can be cancelled for something else.

We have 157g @ -9gpt.
Thats going to get worse next turn

Last edited by Hot_Enamel on 18-07-2004 at 18:38

	25-07-2004 16:15									#134
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Before anyone gets too excited, Military Tradition is a Mohammed Al-Sahaf city....not a tech.
Dont fall for the same trick Oct did.

I suggest we accept it in case they are a stupid enough to agree.

I would,



Move the settlers (yellow) and workers (red) as per the below map.

With the worker doing a road south of baboon, we can settler on the hill where the CoD horse is.

By settling south of Gibbon, it leaves the furtile grassland available, and if need be, we can squeeze in another settlement SE of Gibbon.

Obviously, we need appropriate cover with the settlers/workers.

I say maybe 3 NM with the settler heading south of Gibbon.
And 2 NM with the worker heading south of baboon.

Brings the NM from PC down south to Baboon as MP.
Move the southern archers & cat 3,3 & fortify. They cant get hit, and they can counter-attack

Watch out for any unhappyness.

Regs H_E

	26-07-2004 03:17									#135
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30AD Turn Played

I accepted military tradition.

http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php...Monkey-30AD.jpg

There's the end view. I followed H_E's instructions. We are currently at -16gpt, but that will start changing next turn as cities start coming on line. This may force CoD and Python to actually do something.

Also - check the builds. We should discuss how many cities we want, and whether, for instance, PC should switch to market place.

Also - after Howler Monkey builds its settler - I suggest harbour. And we could add back in some workers to rush it. Then, if Chimpanzee built one, we would have access to horses.

The happiness slider could go to zero now that the cities are smaller.

Moved some of the units around to ensure OK coverage.

Thanks for the plan H_E!

	26-07-2004 03:26									#136
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Great job to both of you.

I think at a minimum PC needs to build a marketplace, and maybe even Macaque (that was the other productive city I remember)

New cities will help but so will commerce building improvements.

	30-07-2004 03:53									#137
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Beta,

I did have a quick look at the save last night, but did not have time to post here.

The only question I have is some of our builds.
Can we afford more units ?

I think we need to borg ourselves out.
ICS.

We need some more workers & settlers.
That will allow us more units.

The CoD & Python SOD's will appear soon enough, and I dont think we will have invention (longbowmen). And even if we do, we wont have the cash to upgrade our archers anyway.

	30-07-2004 08:28									#138
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50ad turn played

http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php...Monkey-50ad.jpg

Now at 132 gold and down to -2gpt.

2 new cities built.

PC switched to marketplace.

Chimpanzee switched to harbour from archer. (22 turns,) Can be built quicker, but at the cost of growth - and I want to co-ordinate with the Monkey Island Harbour.

We have a num merc up in 2 turns and a catapult in 3.

con is correct that Macaque is the next best choice for a market place, but we have a few turns to decide.

And one of these days I will get off my butt, do some FA work, and see if we can beg feudalism and invention from anyone.

	30-07-2004 08:42									#139
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Sorry for the poor screen shot. I must have moved when I was taking the picture.

I mucked around with the resizing in paint and I think that did it. You get the general idea anyway.

	30-07-2004 08:55									#140
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Hopefully that third city will put us back in the black

Market in Macaque

We need to have some hope for Longbowman upgrades

	06-08-2004 08:44									#141
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The save is here. No big deal, I dont see anything jumping out at me. No SoD's showing up yet.

Two CoD horses spotted at 2,1 of the new city we just built in the south, I cant remeber the name.

Building a city where the settler is staged will net us +1 gold.

I think we ought to consider a Marketplace in Macaque vice a settler. We need the commerce boost.

	06-08-2004 20:58									#142
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Ok - will play the save after work today. I have also prepared some correspondence to go out to the other civs regarding aid and/or a crusade. What else does one do during boring meetrings. I look up every now and then - and everyone thinks I am being super-attentive and taking notes.

	06-08-2004 21:59									#143
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quote: Originally posted by Beta Ok - will play the save after work today. I have also prepared some correspondence to go out to the other civs regarding aid and/or a crusade. What else does one do during boring meetrings. I look up every now and then - and everyone thinks I am being super-attentive and taking notes.

That sounds very familiar.

H_E, I know you have been busy and it doesn't NEED to be decided this turn, but what about a market in Macaque?

Thats our second best bet I believe to generate the most most commerce out of a market.

If we continue with settler we just crash the pop and the market will take even longer to make.

Is there any city that can pop out workers as a pump? If so we might want to do that to maintain pops as we build settlers.

During the GA sheilds were King, now we desparately need to maintain Commerce.

	06-08-2004 22:00									#144
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PC has the wheat right? Can that be a pump after its market is built????

	07-08-2004 05:15									#145
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70ad turn played

Capuchin built. Now at 130 gold and +4gpt. The bleeding has stopped.

I have Capuchin on wealth as I couldn't figure what we might want to build there. Walls?

I agree with Macaque for the second Marketplace. Switched production. 13 turns I think.

Yup - PC has the wheat and can pump out a settler or two and workers as needed. After the marketplace.

Also moved 3 cats and a NM one tile south where they can hit the landing area on the west coast where the CoD galley is. In retrospect - maybe should have moved them closer so we could hit the galley. Then again - maybe this is teh initial distraction to their big push. Ah well. Will find out soon enough.

Other minor stuff.

	07-08-2004 09:47									#146
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If we can pop out workers from PC with no trouble and the PC pop recovers quickly we can stage it such that a another city pops a seettler we pump its pop right back up again.

H_E, what do you think? I love worker pumps, and using workers to build up pop.

And in this case its VERY important because every dam gold means so much.

We need to consider this.

Good turn

I wonder when the SoD's show up, they must be building Longbowmen by now.

	07-08-2004 15:46									#147
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My thought ...

I am no strategy or builder guru ... but I am just not sure how much of a boost a Marketplace will give us.

Neither am I an expert in micromanaging a worker pump.

But realistically, I think CoD & Python know exactly how many units we can suport, and can therefore calculate exactly how many units they need to guarantee the success of their war effort.

The SoD's will be appearing soon.
And I dont think we have a long term future on the main continent.

I think our best bet, is to make it as bloody as possible.
This means more mercs & catapults. We cant afford to upgrade our archers, so I hesitate in suggesting we build any more.

But to afford more units, we need more cities.
I think we need to just use the infinity city strategy. ICS.
Just borg our way forward.
Settler after settler after settler. Cities with 1 spacing.

This means we can afford to build more units. And by building just those last 3 cities, we are now back in the black & making money.

I think we attacked CoD, so I dont think they will be experiencing any WW.
Python maybe ..

They are just waiting for their SoD's to be completed.
The more cities/units we build in the meantime, the hard it will be for them.

	07-08-2004 17:30									#148
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OK lemme take a look at the Marketplace plce and worker pump deal with the idea of maxing our commerce whilst pumping out settlers for the ICS strategy.

The wife is going to Chicago for the weekend this morning so I may have sometime, but I do have to pop into work tomorrow.

But I think H-E is correct, ICS is the way to go.

Im going to start looking at options to get us over to the other continent.

	14-08-2004 10:45									#149
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Beta .. My suggestions

Gibbon - Change to settler
Chimpanzee - Change to settler. (It's going to take Howler too long to build a harbor, and I am not sure the horses will trade. Are we connected by coast?)

I am not convinced a marketplace will help much in PC .. but I will go with what you guys decide.

I would move our southern worker NW 7.
We can ICS a city between Chimp & Baboon, and a road is needed.

Everything else --- can be decided later
Maybe -- get a worker from capuchin

Regs

	15-08-2004 04:54									#150
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Hmm - interesting concept H_E. Makes sense. Lets do it.

Playing the save shortly.