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Togas
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California
Jun 2002
time: 21:35
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from FP:
quote:
Hey, thanks! We were wondering what the hell to do with all these corpses we have lying around. Stick em in a hole in the ground and say some mumbo-jumbo over em? You guys are great! What will you think of next?
In other news: due to a miscommunication in turnchat, we had a player move our warrior that just found CDG's border in the wrong direction, and they announced it in turnchat "Hey, neat, the city is empty" which forced me (the turnplayer) to make the same move.
Short version: Dunedain is sitting 2 tiles (directly beside the border of a culture-1 city) from an empty city called "Minnesota." We can't see how big it is or if it is connected by road. Currently we are NOT planning on crossing the border and going for the city, as the first move was an accident - we would've stayed 1 tile off.
If you guys changed your mind about pressuring CDG right off the bat and having us research Code instead of them (how fast could they get that done, really, with what, 2 cities?) we could move that warrior in and force them to poprush or shift units or something and generally make them really nervous. We know that they have 1-2 warriors, and we passed one headed north awhile ago. We think it's even odds they can't get to that city in time, but we also recognize that would be a major diplomatic situation and we definitely don't want to do that without talking to you first. Let us know if you want to chat about any of this - right now, unless we hear different from you, we're going to apologize and back off when they come screaming, since this wasn't what we intended to do to begin with.
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Kloreep
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of the pillow
Jun 2002
time: 00:35
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Did FP mean to post this?
quote:
Obviously, I favor stance one, but I seem to be in the minority in thinking that Apolyton isn't trying to screw us over any more than we're trying to return the favor with our land hijinks.
(They ARE going to be quite annoyed one day when they discover we have that significant quantity of land east of us and we settled as far as Meeting Mountain....) |
This is quite interesting paired with this...
quote:
A tech agreement does not bind them to protect CDG militarily. APO is not obligated to respond by allying with CDG, or are they? Would be nice if they had told us how deep they are with CDG. And we should have asked them that exact question last chat with them.
I kind of look at alliances like a marriage. We are trying to marry PAL and APO. Problem is that APO is still letting her Ex husband come over all the time, and is not communicating clearly with us.
I would like warm and friendly, But I agree with Mo also, Apolyton needs to start communucating better ( like you would expect of an ally or a spouse) and making it clear that they are warm and friendly and not in bed with CDG. Maybe they are friendly, but they are not showing it. If you look at the that chat log, we spend most of the time talking, which seems to be a trend. They talk very little, and when they do they reciprocate very little in specific. And they ignore many of our questions and comments, not even bothering to give an answer.
END HEROIC |
They may be/have been planning to short us on land, but at least FP and the rest are the Great Communicators. 
I'm frankly a little worked up over these PAL posts. I see some hypocrisy from their statements.
I also don't see where we're being standoffish, but oh well, it's all in the eye of the beholder...
It strikes me we have two friendly ambassadors trying to bring together two teams that don't trust one another. If we really want to make a commitment to the alliance, we might want to have a more open chat between team members, without anyone taking the lead for one team. I really don't see any other way to build trust, and I don't see any way to make this alliance work without trust.
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Togas
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California
Jun 2002
time: 21:35
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Read over their comments.
I'm VERY surprised that F-P sent this to us. Very unorthodox. We learn a few things about them we probably shouldn't know (about the excess land they have), and also about how different members of their team think and operate. Someone needs to bookmark that note from them and pay attention to who we're dealing with on their team, assuming that one day F-P is no longer their leader.
Frankly, if F-P were removed from power, I would be very worried about the future of our alliance.
On the bright side, it's clear that F-P is trying to let us know that there's some sort of disconnect going on between us ... or if nothing else, a lot of suspicious glances. I think we need to do a few things:
1) Relook at our diplomacy with them and see if we notice anything that is obviously false, cold, or distant. We should work to improve our attitude. We may not trust them, but we should at least act like we trust them in chats!
2) Have a "heart to heart" with F-P telling him that some amount of distrust is only natural and, with time and with continued cooperation, this will slowly become a very friendly alliance. We just need time to get used to each other.
3) Keep in mind that we cannot nor should not fully trust PAL. It's just not smart and we're a smarter team than that. However, what we can do is make it a policy to never lie to PAL and to better inform them of actions and decisions that we have made.
Ultimately, this alliance is in our best interest. For both of us. We know that. They know that. But getting an agressive team like PAL and a scheming team like Apolyton to work together witout a single hitch is not realistic. It'll take some time and a few mistakes are going to be made, but we should keep on this path.
--Togas
Last edited by Krill on 23-05-2004 at 15:44
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MrWhereItsAt
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New Year's Resolution: 2005 is the year of Where It's At - come get some.
Nov 2001
time: 17:35
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Sounds too much like the difference in talking. We are Diplomats, bred through various DGs and forum participation. As F-P has reinforced a LOT in chats ( and I have read a lot of chatlogs), PAL is very much a group of game-players, who just ask straight questions of each other and get decisions quickly. We need to poll, Ambassadors of ours have learned to automatically be cautious, especially in making promises, and things take time.
Perhaps we should officially ask for a chat with a few PAL high-fliers and outright ask them if they have any concerns, and if so, what they are. It's time to fight fire with fire. We have to inform PAL players (more than just F-P, who already knows by virtue of his participation with most of us before) that we are just playing as we know, as they are. We have a large team, and we can't make decisions without checking with the rest of the team members. Our Ambassadors may sound cautious in chats, but that is just the way of Poly, and CFC, and CGN etc etc in DGs. Furthermore we need to ask if there is a way that we can reassure them of our steadfastness and loyalty whilst still keeping to the plan to attack CDG in 50-odd turns, not a dozen.
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wervdon
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Well I read the correspondance the recent comments 
I think we need to have an open and friendly ( ) sit down with them and explain a few things.
1) That what they perceive as us being stand offish and reserved is:
a) Only natural, trust takes time.
b) Partly only perception on their part. I think we was pretty darn
friendly, but then Im on this team not PAL Certianely as
friendly as I've seen Poly be in this demo game or the last :P
c) Because our diplomats need to poll things and get public opinion.
As has already been pointed out, this is mostly culture differences, not really a sign of distrust.
2) That any question they submit to us will get answered, period. If they don't get an answer in chat, feel free to ask via mail. Its not our intention to leave them in the dark. Not to say the answer won't be "We'll get back to you after we poll it.", but we won't just leave them hanging. Personally, I favor polling now for full disclosure until further notice though, what have we not told them so far that could hurt us down the road? The only thing that'd make me nervous is if they started wanting exact information on where our hoplites are in border cities with them :P
3) Our CDG tech deal is just that, not an alliance, no mutual protection pact. If they decide to attack them early, then thats their business, and we won't get involved. Attacking them ourselves would break our end of the agreement, and as one of their team pointed out--Poly doesn't do that when it can help it. But we certainely won't come to their aid. We'd appreciate having a group chat to discuss it before PAL jumped into war early though.
Uh don't send them this:
But do any of us really care about empire size in this game? As long as we survive to game 2, I've gotten the impression that we don't give a flip about excess land beyond whats needed to ensure our survival.
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wervdon
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Not saying we should be happy with a 5 city vassal state. That wouldn't ensure our survival.
But if we have 15 cities and PAL has 22, do any of us really care? Again not saying that should be our goal by any means or that we shouldn't have enough back bone to stand up for our fair share, but I wouldn't break the alliance over it either.
It really just depends on how much they are trying to stiff us, and whats happened between now and CDG's elimination. If it looks like the other 2 civs have allied and are coming our way, then I have to admit being the obvious weak link on this continent will suck horribly.
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Apolyton Time is 00:35. |
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17-05-2004 02:40
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