27-05-2004 05:52									#151
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15 minutes after time and FP is not on poly. Nor are many people at all...

	28-05-2004 23:30									#152
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No comments of the PAL chat?

It sounded like it went well.

	28-05-2004 23:40									#153
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I'm waiting for PAL Chat Vol. 2 tonight.

--Togas

	29-05-2004 00:40									#154
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quote: Originally posted by Togas I'm waiting for PAL Chat Vol. 2 tonight. --Togas

Roger that

Keep up the good work

I probably wont be around much this weekend. It is going to be busy here.

The delegates show up Sunday, and I have the registration table from 1500 to 2400.

	29-05-2004 05:53									#155
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FP is now here in #c3c_isdg_embassy

	29-05-2004 07:32									#156
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Summary of chat with PAL this evening:

PAL and CDG had a chat on Thursday that did not go well. PAL is going to just remain somewhat aloof and distant from CDG.

Their membership voted to be diplomaticly neutral towards CDG and therefore isn't going to do any sort of tech deception. They requested writing. We sent it this turn.

They're either going to tell CDG that they got Writing from a hut, or that they researched it themselves. WE TELL CDG THAT WE DID NOT TRADE IT TO PAL.

They are researching Horseback Riding and will send it to us next turn. They will then start on Mapmaking (thanks to Writing)

They want to be in Republic before going to war on CDG. They want us to send them Republic after we get it.

Their GA is going to be triggered by The Pyramids which should complete in roughly 50 turns ... right after the CDG war starts. They do not want to be building mil units during their GA.

CDG has a Vet spear in Minnesota. PAL believes they are first building barracks in their cities.

CDG's curragh is currently viewing PAL's land.

That land we see to the East may be a peninsula that goes south of PAL's core. They're exploring it.

They are considering building a city on a hill (coastal) above the ivory that is north of CDG. They want the luxury and will use it as a base to attack CDG. They promise to give it to us after the war.

They're holding to the "meeting mountain" border, but will understand if we ask for more land after our geographic survey is done.

They want us to consider having them do CODE OF LAWS instead of CDG and preempting our tech deal. I told them I'd post it here, but later in chat, F-P said they'd be going for Mapmaking. He doubted we'd reconsider.

They seem to want to get to Republic quickly, and feel that it would give us both an advantage against the other teams. I argued that we should use the 3 teams we have now to research 3 different tech paths, which would give us an advantage over the other 2 teams, assuming they are cooperating.

PAL is no longer #1 in land area. One of the other teams is building very loosely.

We will begin the war in @40 turns. They need to check with their MOI guy and we need to set a firm date soon.

--Togas

	29-05-2004 11:31									#157
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And their members' attitudes towards us? Can we reassure them easily enough, or was Writing enough to quell some voices?

	29-05-2004 11:46									#158
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt And their members' attitudes towards us? Can we reassure them easily enough, or was Writing enough to quell some voices?

I think this will go a long way towards calming the dissenters.

I believe it was the idea of us with holding writing combined with "our holding onto CDG" that made some people nervous over there. (Thats PALs view)

	29-05-2004 12:22									#159
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Thanks for the update. Things sound as they are going fine.

	29-05-2004 18:29									#160
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Sorry I have been EXTREMELY busy at work as of late.

Chat with PAL, I feel went exceptionally well. Good job to all involved.

Regarding them doing CoL, well, I'm not about to tell them what to do, so they could still do it and then see if they could offer us something better than CDG, but hell, with CDG doing it, it is essentially free to both of us. I just don't see it as practical....

	29-05-2004 21:20									#161
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actually PAL will research map making

	30-05-2004 09:27									#162
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At our current research, we probably will not get republic for another 45 turns. Let us set the time frame of starting war at Republic +10, or turn 90, whichever comes first (discussion to commence closer to actual time to lock in). Can someone please PLEASE contact them and confirm. Also, can someone please contact them and ask what they plan on providing militarily, so that our war planners can begin in ernest.

	31-05-2004 05:00									#163
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quote: Originally posted by Donegeal with CDG doing it [Code of Laws], it is essentially free to both of us.

This is an excellent point that is often overlooked about CDG. While they're alive, we really need to have them researching different techs from us and PAL. In the end, all of CDG's techs will be both ours and PAL and, in essence, we have the research engine of three civs working together.

Having PAL undercut CDG in tech may weaken CDG, but it also weakens both of us, as we will have less total techs between us in the end.

And if GWT and BAT are working together, having that third civ kicking in research will give us a vital tech lead.

--Togas

	31-05-2004 05:04									#164
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quote: Originally posted by GodKing At our current research, we probably will not get republic for another 45 turns. Let us set the time frame of starting war at Republic +10, or turn 90, whichever comes first (discussion to commence closer to actual time to lock in).

Why 45 turns?

We just need to finish math (10 more turns), then finish Philosphy, an 8 point tech. Won't take us 35 turns to do Philosophy. CDG should have Code of Laws before we finish as they started on it right about the same time we started on Math.

Also note, PAL is building the Pyramids which will start their GA. They say that it'll be finished in about 50 turns. They want the war to start before their GA as they don't want to build mil units with their GA production.

I agree on Republic +10 turns, but I think it should be earlier than turn 90.

--Togas

	01-06-2004 22:07									#165
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We need time to build our units. Right now, all we have is one archer and a bunch of warriors acting as MP's (which will be useless once in republic) and scouts.

	01-06-2004 22:56									#166
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Yes, it's going to take some time to build the needed units for the war. I'd 50 turns is cutting it short for the numbers some were talking about. But seriously, we don't need as many as some were speaking of too. Think about it; the longer we wait to attack the longer CDG has to build units as well. As long as PAL and APO go after CDG collectivley we shouldn't have that big of a problem. The only thing that will cost us in this war is if CDG were to catch onto the plot and they started preparing for this war now instead of just playing it average and building for growth/culture/military. If they are tipped off they will build only mostly military.

	02-06-2004 19:45									#167
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I agree with BF

We cant wait forever, yet we can not launch too soon.

The MOI in conjunction with the MOD, need to give us a good date.

In the mean time we have to stay at least average if not strong to CDG.

My guess is PAL will be ready to go before us, so we are essentially driving the time table.

Whomever is talking to PAL needs to keep up the conversations till next week, when I will be back.

	04-06-2004 03:54									#168
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Fine. I can give any date anybody likes. I NEED the size of the force we are looking to put up to war, along with the composition (I am going under the assumption it will be archers and hoplites, but even that basic assumption has not been confirmed by our military people).

If we are willing to go to war with 5 archers, fine, we can go to war in 12 turns +/-. If we want something more, I NEED TO KNOW.

Of course, I am more than happy to just plan all that out and build whatever I feel like and let the military people deal. But what is the fun in that?

	08-06-2004 23:46									#169
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quote: We now have relatively precise figures for how many horsemen we will have along 10-turn intervals starting on turn 71; we were hoping to sit down in the near future with the Ministers of War for each nation and plan precisely when we are going to go and thump CDG. When's good for you lot? Tonight is free, tomorrow night is out, rest of the week free.

One point:

quote: we were hoping to sit down in the near future with the Ministers of War for each nation

Each nation?

	09-06-2004 01:12									#170
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I could be around tonight, if necessary, in the later evening.

quote: Each nation?

I think he means the MoW from just PAL and Apolyton. uber's our Minister of War, SMC, or whatever he's calling himself. Dunno who that is for PAL, though.

	09-06-2004 01:21									#171
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My point is that they could have met another team, and this is a mistake. Sorry if that was not obvious

And, yes, I'm paranoid about them attacking us instead of CDG

	09-06-2004 01:23									#172
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I'm not available tonight. Let's push for Thursday night. However, I want to first make sure that Uber is free.

--Togas

	09-06-2004 01:39									#173
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give me a time thursday night and i'll be sure to keep it clear.

guess it's time we made a decision, eh

	09-06-2004 01:49									#174
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GodKing, or someone from the MoI, should try to attend as well, as I imagine that he'd have better estimated production figures.

	09-06-2004 04:13									#175
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I can make it tonight but not Thursday. If Togas and Uber and a MOI rep can make it - go with Thursday. Who is getting back to F-P?

	09-06-2004 06:25									#176
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I'd say one of the Consuls should reply for now. Include in the reply that we are undergoing elections and that plans are underway for determining the makeup (numbers and what type of unit) and availability (by what turn we can attack a set point) of our Army.

	09-06-2004 06:52									#177
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I will have thursday evening open, although I might be a bit drunk (golf outing that day )

	10-06-2004 21:20									#178
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We need a time for the chat. I propose 8:30 eastern time.

I'm going to send F-P an email with that time but if Uber or GK cannot make it then, please post here and I'll let F-P know.

--Togas

	10-06-2004 21:35									#179
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For chat tonight with PAL:

I do not think we should tell them what our actual army composition will be. They don't need to know that. It only serves as a potential temptation for them, should they begin to ponder if they can get us to fight CDG and then maneuver around us to attack our weakly defended rear.

What they need to know is WHEN we can attack. After running our projections, turn 92-94 seems ideal. They may need us to push forward the attack if their GA will come before that and we may or may not be able to do so. We'll look at their proposed date and our numbers and see.

We probably should withdraw one of our warriors from their territory. While I'd like to know what it looks like beyond their borders, it's not friendly for us to cross into their borders and snoop around. And it appears that they've created a complete and unpassable border. We should still explore that southern peninsula, but perhaps we should send our other warrior home, or station him at a key watch point around meeting mountain.

--Togas

	11-06-2004 09:31									#180
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quote: Originally posted by Togas We probably should withdraw one of our warriors from their territory. While I'd like to know what it looks like beyond their borders, it's not friendly for us to cross into their borders and snoop around. And it appears that they've created a complete and unpassable border. We should still explore that southern peninsula, but perhaps we should send our other warrior home, or station him at a key watch point around meeting mountain. --Togas

Can't we just ask what's beyond their territory? They asked what our territory looked like, so I don't see it as too much to ask.