30-05-2004 20:18									#301
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: We're talking about a ship that has withstood having blackholes shot at it. I doubt the ISD weapons would rate as a threat.

Shot through it. It doesn't depend on the strength of the ship there, because the black hole automatically passes through wherever it's going.

	30-05-2004 20:22									#302
	Got spare money?

I think the very fact those weapons exist gives the edge to the Andromeda universe.

	30-05-2004 20:32									#303
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

How would Andromeda, or any other ship from its universe, invade the SW galaxy? They have no knowledge of the slipstream routes there. Hyperspace routes are simple by comparison.

	30-05-2004 20:47									#304
	Tired of ads?

dudes...if this all is true...then the Dragonball universe can kick SW ST and Andomida stuffie thingy big time....

	30-05-2004 21:51									#305
	Inflate your Upload Space

why are we even talking about this universe strength pissing contest?

	30-05-2004 21:59									#306
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

This is a geek site...

	30-05-2004 22:01									#307
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Pax Can you elaborate Dr. Strangelove?

From the very first episode Crighton is petulant and prone to throwing temper tantrums. He acts more like a drunken jock than a world class scientist. I especially got fed up with the un-ending stream of sci-fi obsceneities (frelling this and frelling that). The show would have worked much better if the writers had concentrated a little bit less on impressing the 13 to 20 year old age group with how "cool" they were.

	30-05-2004 22:16									#308
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Oh well, here we go again: ST ships are capable of fighting at warp speed and have weapons capable of travelling at super-luminal speeds. According to the script approved by George Lucas himself SW ships can barely exceed the speed of light, i.e., Hans Solo brags about his ship being one of the fastest in the empire because it travels at "point five past light speed". That's a direct quote. I don't care about what any of the books say. One and one-half times the speed of light is about the speed limit for SW ships as expressly mandated by the god of SW himself, George Lucas. SW weapons travel at a mere speed of light. It only stands to reason then that with competent leadership a ST fleet would be able to beat a SW fleet, since the ST fleet would be able to fly circles around the SW fleet shooting it to pieces while the SW ships would be unable to touch them because the ST ships fly faster than SW weapons. It would be like taking on F-15s with catapaults. That would work only in the Civilization universe.

It seems to me that in a recent episode Dylan said something about Andromeda's shields.
Ogf course, a Magog worldship would really give the empire something to worry about.

	30-05-2004 22:28									#309
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

the funny thing of sw is that they speak of going around the whole galaxy, and if they didn't travel faster than light...

in st, they traven many multiples the speed of light, and don't even talk about traversing the whole galaxy.

obviously, sw's galaxy is tiny.

	30-05-2004 22:41									#310
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove Oh well, here we go again: ST ships are capable of fighting at warp speed and have weapons capable of travelling at super-luminal speeds. According to the script approved by George Lucas himself SW ships can barely exceed the speed of light, i.e., Hans Solo brags about his ship being one of the fastest in the empire because it travels at "point five past light speed". That's a direct quote. I don't care about what any of the books say. One and one-half times the speed of light is about the speed limit for SW ships as expressly mandated by the god of SW himself, George Lucas. SW weapons travel at a mere speed of light. It only stands to reason then that with competent leadership a ST fleet would be able to beat a SW fleet, since the ST fleet would be able to fly circles around the SW fleet shooting it to pieces while the SW ships would be unable to touch them because the ST ships fly faster than SW weapons. It would be like taking on F-15s with catapaults. That would work only in the Civilization universe. It seems to me that in a recent episode Dylan said something about Andromeda's shields. Ogf course, a Magog worldship would really give the empire something to worry about.

First error: .5 past lightspeed does not mean 1.5 times lightspeed. It means the Falcon has a hyperdrive (hence the "past lightspeed") rating of .5. A higher hyperdrive rating indicates a slower ship.

Second error: "SW weapons travel at a mere speed of light". This is actually an error in my favor; SW weapons are not lasers in the sense of coherent light - this is obvious from the movies which are canon. SW weapons actually travel SLOWER than lightspeed, but this actually doesn't mean anything, because of the

Third error: ST ships can't attack ships in realspace from warp; there are multiple example of ST ship attacking station from realspace. If they could attack from warp, why would they attack from realspace and expose themselves to enemy fire?

	30-05-2004 22:53									#311
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Third error: ST ships can't attack ships in realspace from warp; there are multiple example of ST ship attacking station from realspace. If they could attack from warp, why would they attack from realspace and expose themselves to enemy fire?

cf. ST:VOY s4e14 "Message in a Bottle", the USS Prometheus separates into three separate modules and engages the following Starfleet vessels in warp.

	30-05-2004 22:58									#312
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove Oh well, here we go again: ST ships are capable of fighting at warp speed and have weapons capable of travelling at super-luminal speeds. According to the script approved by George Lucas himself SW ships can barely exceed the speed of light, i.e., Hans Solo brags about his ship being one of the fastest in the empire because it travels at "point five past light speed". That's a direct quote. I don't care about what any of the books say. One and one-half times the speed of light is about the speed limit for SW ships as expressly mandated by the god of SW himself, George Lucas. SW weapons travel at a mere speed of light. It only stands to reason then that with competent leadership a ST fleet would be able to beat a SW fleet, since the ST fleet would be able to fly circles around the SW fleet shooting it to pieces while the SW ships would be unable to touch them because the ST ships fly faster than SW weapons. It would be like taking on F-15s with catapaults. That would work only in the Civilization universe. It seems to me that in a recent episode Dylan said something about Andromeda's shields. Ogf course, a Magog worldship would really give the empire something to worry about.

umm, there is a difference between maneuvering speed and warp (or whatever they call it) speed

and in the movies they go to other star systems in seconds, that is much much faster than light

Jon Miller

	30-05-2004 22:59									#313
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed quote: Third error: ST ships can't attack ships in realspace from warp; there are multiple example of ST ship attacking station from realspace. If they could attack from warp, why would they attack from realspace and expose themselves to enemy fire? cf. ST:VOY s4e14 "Message in a Bottle", the USS Prometheus separates into three separate modules and engages the following Starfleet vessels in warp.

When both ships are in warp, they can attack each other. I've never seen anything that indicates you can attack from warp into realspace.

	30-05-2004 23:14									#314
	Put an end to popups!

i don't see why you wouldn't be able to, though i will admit i don't recall an episode where it's happened either.

	31-05-2004 00:19									#315
	Suffering from ads?

quote: solid entertainment 3. Star Trek: The Next Generation 4. Star Trek (original series) 5. Red Dwarf 6. Star Trek Enterprise has it's moments 7. Dr. Who 8. Battlestar Galactica 9. Star Trek: Deep Space Nine consistently painful 10. Andromeda 11. Star Trek: Voyager worse than Walker: Texas Ranger 12. Stargate: SG-1

quote: I guess I just prefer Hercules, Warrior Princess to MacGyver.

but you prefer Quantum Leap over Hercules and MacGyver?

	31-05-2004 00:24									#316
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

The Gouald, Asgard, and Replicators of StarGate could all annihilate anything in Star Trek or Star Wars...

	31-05-2004 01:04									#317
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed i don't see why you wouldn't be able to, though i will admit i don't recall an episode where it's happened either.

If one is, for lack of a better word, "simultaneous" with the other, where's the distinction between the two?

	31-05-2004 01:31									#318
	Put an end to popups!

I thought the problem was that when moving faster then light a laser (or any other weapon that didn't fire at warp velocity) would be effectively firing inwards.


EDIT: And I seem to recall a TNG episode where they tinkered with a photon torpedo to fire at warp speed in order to shoot at a ship they where pursuing.

Last edited by General Ludd on 31-05-2004 at 01:36

	31-05-2004 01:35									#319
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

God, this thread is geeky...

	31-05-2004 01:56									#320
	Got spare money?

*Ventures back into the fray...*

Of Star Wars vs. Star Trek et al.:
Let's bring a little REAL science into the discussion, shall we? Based on what scientists and mathmaticians are current researching, we "know" there are at least 11 dimensions to our universe, probably more. Three physical dimensions, one of time, which leaves us 7 that haven't "unfurled" as the terminology goes. The way I sort it out and rationalize differences between scifi realities is to take an Uber-Electron Microscope (Patent Pending) and look at their physical makeup at the sub-quantum level. One can plainly see that in different realities, different combinations of the 7 unfurled dimensions have in fact unfurled. However, those differences precluded the possibility of crossovers beyond fanfic. Federation ships utillize a dimension they understand to be "subspace." In the Star Wars universe that dimension didn't unfurl and as such ST ships would flounder. Impulse drives might work, as they are based on good old-fashioned nuclear fusion propulsion, but practically every other system (warp core, replicators, weapons, life support, computers, communications, even tricorders and so on...) would be kaput. In the Star Trek universe, the opposite would be true: Hyperspace as SW people understand it never unfurled, so their ships wouldn't go very far very fast. I don't know anything about their other ship's systems, but I imagine they'd be having technical problems too. SW, Andromeda, BG, Farscape, Stargate... all of them would be incapable of doing squat in the Star Trek universe or any other scifi universe that differed too greatly from their own and vis-versa.



Can we please stop beating that dead horse now?

	31-05-2004 02:13									#321
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

a lot of phsycists don't beleive in hte 11 dimensions stuff

Strong theory is very popular in certain circles, but overall in physics is considered very effy (and probably not right)

Jon Miller

	31-05-2004 02:16									#322
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Damn it Jon, I'm trying to get them to stop!

	31-05-2004 02:31									#323
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by General Ludd I thought the problem was that when moving faster then light a laser (or any other weapon that didn't fire at warp velocity) would be effectively firing inwards. EDIT: And I seem to recall a TNG episode where they tinkered with a photon torpedo to fire at warp speed in order to shoot at a ship they where pursuing.

No one, neither ST nor SW, uses actual lasers.

	31-05-2004 02:47									#324
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

How about if we talk about all the science fiction other than star wars and star trek.

	31-05-2004 02:49									#325
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Well, seeing as this thread is about Star Trek: Enterprise...

	31-05-2004 02:53									#326
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by DRoseDARs Well, seeing as this thread is about Star Trek: Enterprise...

We're way past Star Trek Enterprise. We're into the argument that has been going on since before the Iranian hostage situation. Let's focus on something else.

	31-05-2004 02:55									#327
	Increase Your PM Length

Well, I tried an angle a couple posts up. Let's hope it works (no thanks to Jon Miller ).

	31-05-2004 03:15									#328
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Pax We're way past Star Trek Enterprise. We're into the argument that has been going on since before the Iranian hostage situation. Let's focus on something else.

SW came out before that?

	31-05-2004 04:34									#329
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Kucinich No one, neither ST nor SW, uses actual lasers.

Actually, I'm pretty sure some of the minor races in Star Trek have used lasers.


Those scavengers that seemed like complete morons come to mind. I remember someone (Ryker?) scoffing at them and saying something to the effect of "they're using lasers! Can we really take them seriously?"

	31-05-2004 04:38									#330
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Did anyone see the last episode of Space Above and Beyond? I cried.