01-06-2004 02:08									#391
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Ahh, ehh, NO.

Ahh, ehh, YES. The novelizations are canon, below only the films themselves.

quote: Why on earth add annoying little sounds for?

As an easy way to warn you that laserfire is nearby, maybe?

quote: Besides, this would only explain sounds we hear from scenes inside the ships-not for scenes out in space.

Except you can also hear the radio chatter in space - thus you must assume that you're listening from inside one of them.

quote: The fact is the only movie/TV show I have ever seen that actually kept this science fact was 2001.

Don't you think it'd be a little STUPID for things like ST and SW to keep this "science fact", as you put it? It makes people like it more.

	01-06-2004 02:09									#392
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus comparing the Empire with the Federation makes no sense. Empire = bad guys, Federation = good guys. The good guys always win in the end, in ST and SW. So the REAL comparison should be between the Empire and the Borg (or Dominion/Breen, or Species 8472. the big bads from the ST universe). So who'll win? Empire vs Borg vs Shadows?

'

A single turbolaser salvo from an ISD is stronger than a Cube's shields. ISD wins.

	01-06-2004 03:03									#393
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quote: Originally posted by Gibsie Bring back teh Lexx

	01-06-2004 04:32									#394
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quote: Originally posted by Kucinich Ahh, ehh, YES. The novelizations are canon, below only the films themselves.

Ah, "canon" is a term created by ubernerds tyring to make up crap-I could not care less for it.

quote: As an easy way to warn you that laserfire is nearby, maybe?

Then why not say : "warning, enemy has locked on", instead of "boomn, whoosh, zap"

quote: Except you can also hear the radio chatter in space - thus you must assume that you're listening from inside one of them.

Why? becuase it is convinient? No, anything filmed form outer soace should have NO sound-that would be scientifically accurate-these are TV shows-hence, no one cares but ubernerds.

quote: Don't you think it'd be a little STUPID for things like ST and SW to keep this "science fact", as you put it? It makes people like it more.

Ah, so you do get it-then why on earth refer to ubernerd sites full of writings by people wasting their times becuase they have not realized this simplest of truths?

	01-06-2004 04:38									#395
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Ah, "canon" is a term created by ubernerds tyring to make up crap-I could not care less for it.

Translation: I'm not even going to address your argument, I'm going to ignore it.

quote: As an easy way to warn you that laserfire is nearby, maybe?

quote: Then why not say : "warning, enemy has locked on", instead of "boomn, whoosh, zap"

Because it's more natural to make the noise that the laser would actually make, and because "warning, enemy has locked on" takes a while to say?

quote: Why? becuase it is convinient? No, anything filmed form outer soace should have NO sound-that would be scientifically accurate-these are TV shows-hence, no one cares but ubernerds.

If it were scientifically accurate, it wouldn't exist! Why do you think it's called science fiction.

Anyways, since you can obviously here comm chatter as part of it (there's nothing wrong with that, it's just that they want to have a view from OUTSIDE a ship and sounds from INSIDE), then the other noises are OK too.

quote: Ah, so you do get it-then why on earth refer to ubernerd sites full of writings by people wasting their times becuase they have not realized this simplest of truths?

The point is that it ISN'T criticised as "unrealistic" - it's assumed to be real for purposes of debate, DUH.

	01-06-2004 04:46									#396
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It makes more sense not to deal with boom, woosh, zap sounds in space rather than come up with stupid tactical computer rationalizations for them.

	01-06-2004 04:48									#397
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What's your point?

	01-06-2004 04:53									#398
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there is no point

	01-06-2004 05:06									#399
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc They say it is.

So? A mongoose doesn't look, act, or feel like a goose. Is it a Goose? No!

quote: comparing the Empire with the Federation makes no sense. Empire = bad guys, Federation = good guys. The good guys always win in the end, in ST and SW.

Trust the Dutchy to take the cop-out option.

	01-06-2004 05:06									#400
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What got me turned off of star trek during the TNG regime was the constant preaching that Picard and his fellow moralist kept spewing each episode. A lot of the episodes seemed to prop up humanity as this evolved race of happy go lucky people and the alien of the week possesed a quality or tradition that humanity had long since evolved out of. the best episodes of TNG were those where they were forced to do very distastful things in order to save the nice evolved folks back home. DS9 started out this way but as the dominion war dragged on and killed more and more people, Sisko proved that he was willing to do a great many bad things in order to defeat the dominion. I never watched much of voyager so I can't compare it. I have watched a little of Enterprise and it seems to be less preachy and more do what needs to be done.

As far as Star Wars goes, it's a different type of show. As a rule, I don't like a completely polished version of the future.

	01-06-2004 05:12									#401
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quote: Originally posted by Sprayber I don't like a completely polished version of the future.

So glad we agree on something.

	01-06-2004 05:19									#402
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The B5 Human government is more "real" too...it's a democracy, capitalist ( with a heavy leavening of "liberal" ideals, such as no death penalty), and where else can you see spacestation CO's *****ing about budget cuts?

	01-06-2004 05:40									#403
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B5 actually shows things like election politics occuring, and a slow slide into authoritarian rule, and the people joining this rule (the night watche members) are njot showns as goose steping fools either. bAlso, B5 actually has a press, and has 2 episodes centered on the press.

I like the fact the B5 had such unity in story that in one episode of Season 1 they are able to have a headline in a newspaper (yes, that press again) that you can barely see but has a line about the psi corp endorsing clarck.

	01-06-2004 12:11									#404
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quote: A single turbolaser salvo from an ISD is stronger than a Cube's shields. ISD wins.

Yes. The first time around. The second time around, the Borg will have adapted, and ISD turbolaser will be utterly useless. The Borg will disable the ISD, board it, and turn all your little clone soldiers into Drones. They'll make a fine addition to the collective.

Now on the other hand, the Vorlons may have a better chance of beating the Borg. The Borg were rather ineffective against Species 8472, which uses advanced organic technology for their ships and weapons. It is unclear however, how Species 8472's technology compares to Vorlon technology.

quote: Trust the Dutchy to take the cop-out option.

Ey!! We're dieing in Iraq too you know!

	01-06-2004 12:14									#405
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quote: The B5 Human government is more "real" too...it's a democracy, capitalist ( with a heavy leavening of "liberal" ideals, such as no death penalty)

More real? More 1990s real! It's set 200 years into the future, and nothing seems to have changed!?!

	01-06-2004 17:19									#406
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus Now on the other hand, the Vorlons may have a better chance of beating the Borg. The Borg were rather ineffective against Species 8472, which uses advanced organic technology for their ships and weapons.

They use nanite bombs to kill them now thanks to Janeway.

	01-06-2004 18:08									#407
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Yes, but 1. the shadows have nanotechnology as well-2. the vorlons are not even really organic anymore-they can't be assimilated.

as fr St Leo:

How much has governance changed in the last 200 years? Not that much.

	01-06-2004 18:19									#408
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How much has governance changed in the 200 years before that

a lot

Jon Miller

	01-06-2004 18:24									#409
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller How much has governance changed in the 200 years before that a lot Jon Miller

in 1604 we already had parliments and courts. We still have monarchs even today.

Yes, there has been huge changed, but not as much as ST's governance has-more importantly, the biggest change was the increasing power of the masses-whether through democracy or demagogic regimes. What has changed is mass politics and no longer rule by an oligarchy. BUt much of the same politicking remains, as well as alliences between the economic and political powers.

	01-06-2004 18:45									#410
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quote: Yes, but 1. the shadows have nanotechnology as well-2. the vorlons are not even really organic anymore-they can't be assimilated.

Humans have nanotechnology as well. So what? Shadow nanotech isn't nearly as advanced as Borg nanotech. And the Vorlons themselves might not be assimilated (though the Shadows certainly can be), but they can certainly be killed, and their organic ships might be assimilated (depends on how vorlon organic tech and species 8472 organic tech match up).

	01-06-2004 18:47									#411
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quote: Yes, there has been huge changed, but not as much as ST's governance has

The Federation's governement is a democracy, just like we have today. And there are senators as well. Little has changed in the governement. It's the society that has changed considerably (mainly thanks to replicators...communism thanks to technology), but not the governement in itself.

	01-06-2004 18:54									#412
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus Humans have nanotechnology as well. So what? Shadow nanotech isn't nearly as advanced as Borg nanotech. And the Vorlons themselves might not be assimilated (though the Shadows certainly can be), but they can certainly be killed, and their organic ships might be assimilated (depends on how vorlon organic tech and species 8472 organic tech match up).

How on earth do you figure Shadow nanotech is less advanced? They use it at least in their planet-killer, while the borg seem to use it only for assimilation.

I don't think the Vorlons ships are as organic as species 8472.

	01-06-2004 19:10									#413
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quote: Originally posted by GePap How on earth do you figure Shadow nanotech is less advanced? They use it at least in their planet-killer, while the borg seem to use it only for assimilation. I don't think the Vorlons ships are as organic as species 8472.

Shadows are clearly less advanced than the Vorlon -- as evidenced by the the apparent Vorlon supporiority of Vorlon ships over shadowvessels in the one real engagement shown in the series, and by the amount of effort required to kill an individual Vorlon (Kosh, both times), as opposed to killing an individual Shadow (the final confrontation between Mr. Morden and Londo).

They do make up for it in numbers.

	01-06-2004 19:19									#414
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quote: How on earth do you figure Shadow nanotech is less advanced? They use it at least in their planet-killer, while the borg seem to use it only for assimilation.

Because assimilation brings much greater rewards than destruction. With every species the Borg assimilate, they get stronger. Using planet-killers to destroy whole planets doesn't make one stronger.

Species 8472 however, does destroy entire planets.

	01-06-2004 20:54									#415
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus Yes. The first time around. The second time around, the Borg will have adapted, and ISD turbolaser will be utterly useless. The Borg will disable the ISD, board it, and turn all your little clone soldiers into Drones. They'll make a fine addition to the collective.

The borg obviously can't adapt to infinite amounts firepower - otherwise, 8472 wouldn't be such a threat. Since en masse even the comparatively low firepower of Federation starships can overwhelm the Borg, an Imperial fleet would have no problem. Not to mention the fact that if the annihilate the ship in their first encounter, the rest of the Borg won't be adapted.

Plus, an ISD has a crew of over 40,000 - including 9,000 stormtroopers. Given the how absolutely pathetic the Borg ground tactics are, I'd say they have no chance of assimilating an ISD, at least not in a reasonable period of time.

	01-06-2004 20:56									#416
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus Because assimilation brings much greater rewards than destruction. With every species the Borg assimilate, they get stronger. Using planet-killers to destroy whole planets doesn't make one stronger. Species 8472 however, does destroy entire planets.

Being more useful doesn't make it more "advanced". Moreover, planet-killing, while it doesn't make you stronger, it makes your enemies a LOT weaker.

	01-06-2004 21:25									#417
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quote: Originally posted by Kucinich Given the how absolutely pathetic the Borg ground tactics are

But they'd be up against storm troopers.

	01-06-2004 22:09									#418
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quote: Given the how absolutely pathetic the Borg ground tactics are

compared to Storm Troopers, even the Borg look good!

	01-06-2004 22:19									#419
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How did humans get so far out in space where no man has gone before?

Star Trek writers sucs

	02-06-2004 01:19									#420
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God, we're back on the Star Trek vs Star Wars crap again... Give it a rest, will ya's?