21-07-2004 16:00									#301
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quote: Originally posted by Net Warrior When the former is done with the road, I'd like to move it N-N-E roading as it goes, in order to connect GL, FT, & base 3. This way, one unit can defend any of the 3 bases. With this plan, the former can move into a threatened base as needed while carrying it out. After roading the 3 tiles it can start foresting them, staying close by all the while. Otherwise, I agree with all above.

I would agree with this, except for one thing: We are going to want to send 2+ colony pods into the Uranium Flats. That's why I'm thinking: Former back to base and attempt East at 2/3's movement. road, and then the spore launcher will allow us to enter the fungus unimpeded. We can de-fungus and then road. Meanwhile, a new former can proceed as you outline, linking us in defense. But either plan is good.

Great thinking and planning team!

	21-07-2004 16:18									#302
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Map of possible routes and bases

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	21-07-2004 16:52									#303
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Those are great base sites smacsim. I'm just visiting the city from 2 weeks holiday, going away for a week tonight, so let me check If I understood correctly. Base #3 site has already been decided to be one square east of the CP featured in your pic. base #4 site is under debate, you suggest the site 2 suares north of the CP featured in the pic. I agree. This form the 4-base powerchain.

Then the later bases. I suggest we head to the flats next and build at least one base there asap, later 2 more bases to take full advantage of the flats. Also bases SW of GL and NW of FT require immediate attention. So something along the lines of base #5 uranium flats, base #6 and 7 to the coasts NW and SW of the cities, to have at least one port.

	21-07-2004 16:56									#304
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Yeah, that's the suggestion. I just use MS paint so don't put in text for those updates. I save Photoshop for other more important things.

The only problem I have with base 5 being in the Flats is that the CP for that will be from Gaia's Landing. Since we've already got a piece of road and a monolith, I suggest heading down the hill to our south coast. But you might be right. It might be worth the hike over the fungus to the Flats. It's very debatable.

-S

	21-07-2004 17:27									#305
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I say we drop the next CP from Gaia's Landing just two tiles southwest. We can put another base on the other side of the monolith later if we want, but a gap of four tiles from HQ to base #5 is just too much.

In the Uranium Flats, we can also pack in the bases a little. How about one two tiles northwest of the nutrient bonus? We can put another between the nutrient bonus and the mineral bonus, and eventually another at the end of the river. We can place other bases in the Flats as needed. I'll make a picture with my idea of good base sites when I get home.

As for the nut and min boni, the nut gets a condensor-farm and the min can get a borehole. Each can be forested before that's possible, of course.

	21-07-2004 17:33									#306
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I used to hate the whole idea of putting bases on special resources. But I recently tried it and of course, am now a big fan. A base on the Nut will be a CP machine, especially with the nearby Mineral. It's Nuts in the hand, not in the bush. (that's disgusting, but I didn't mean it that way, honest).

I've had thoughts along the same lines r/e base 5. The monolith is kinda in the way of the best non-fungus site. We can have a few base-space-base bases. It will only amplify our turn advantage until the very very late game when we wish we had more worker space. But we'll have won by then.

	21-07-2004 23:11									#307
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Turn's in!

Will do as smacksim proposed when I get to playing it, unless anyone brings up substantial objections.

	21-07-2004 23:42									#308
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I see no substantial objections.

	22-07-2004 03:39									#309
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I don’t understand the case for moving the former to the flats, roading while it goes, NE-E-E-NE. I calculate that it will take 17 or 18 turns to complete a road into that rocky river tile at 63,75. At the latest the CP at GL will be ready to move, the road will still only one tile long. So, this plan is not based on turn advantage for the next GL CP.

My alternate plan is to road N-N-E, connecting our 1st 3 bases in 7 turns. From there the former could move to the flats E-SE and remove the fungus and road that flat river square in another 9 or 10 turns. This gives us access to the flats in 16 to 17 turns, one turn sooner that the plan above. Additionally, the added benefits of connected bases speak for itself.

I’d be happy to learn, if I’ve overlooked anything.

	22-07-2004 03:56									#310
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I agree with you Net. The road wouldn't be ready in time and isn't as useful a position as I thought.

The other thing to do is to finish the road to base 5's possible site, then turn around and do as you suggest.

Last edited by smacksim on 22-07-2004 at 04:03

	22-07-2004 04:04									#311
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Mid-turn emergency!

The spore launcher found 2 mind worms (had to happen sooner or later)

This puts our CP at some risk if it moves to its proscribed destination. Do we still want to move it there?

By the way, the unity foil popped a rover, but wasn't in a position to bring it to land safely.

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	22-07-2004 04:10									#312
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Playing the Believers with a -1 planet rating I had a MW move 2 squares thru the fungus to kill my unity rover so I know they are capable. How probably it would be, I just have no idea. We could always just play it safe and move the CP NE

Great news about the foil pop!

	22-07-2004 04:15									#313
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From my limited observations, mind worms don't seem particularly aggressive towards factions with non-negative planet ratings, but it's still an awful risk to move the CP closer to a mind worm (which would have 3:1 combat odds against the CP)

If we want to be really cautious, we can redirect this CP to the site for base #4, and then when we get the 4th CP (3 more turns) we can send that to the site for base #3, which shouldn't be so dangerous by then.

	22-07-2004 04:16									#314
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Hmmmm...Even NE would be vulnerable

	22-07-2004 04:21									#315
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Maybe you should hold the turn for a while and wait for others to weigh in. The only totally safe course is away from that fungus square it's now adjecent to. I just have no idea of how risky it is to stay connected to it.

	22-07-2004 04:27									#316
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Aiii. I'd risk it, if we had a scout on the way, but the base will be vulnerable even if the CP isn't attacked next turn. How about swapping destinations with the CP coming from Fallow Time? Extra 2 turn or so. Maybe we should pop in teams near our bases from now on, considering we are garrison-light.

It is possible the threatening MW will move away down the river, which would allow our Slauncher to get in a blocking position. If you want to try that, I say go for it. Risky, but it would preserve advantage.

	22-07-2004 04:34									#317
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I like the swappping plan. Move the CP N-N and plant in on the 3rd turn. That only costs 1 turn and it plants the base on a preferred river tile. Go for it!

	22-07-2004 04:42									#318
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We'd even get a rolling rainy river tile for the worker. Maybe this turns out to be a blessing in disguise

	22-07-2004 04:49									#319
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3-0 for swapping locations, and we only have about 5 voting members. Proceeding with that plan.

	22-07-2004 05:09									#320
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Move CP to base site #4, found base next turn.

Try to capture a mindworm with the spore launcher, assuming it survives.

Move scout patrol east, in case mindworms cause trouble.

Try to rush CP at base #2

Try to drop off unity rover on land, so it can trawl fungus/pop pods.

Once northern scout is free, move east if mindworms are still threatening, otherwise scout west.


Decisions:

What next for our former? If we had more formers, I'd say sensor base site #5, but we just have the one. I've seen suggestions for connecting existing bases with roads.

What to build in base #3?

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	22-07-2004 05:25									#321
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Marked are near-future base sites (numbered), and later base sites, marked with green dots. The orange dots are an alternative placement of bases within the Uranium Flats.

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	22-07-2004 06:03									#322
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Move CP to base site #4, found base next turn. - agree

Try to capture a MW with the spore launcher, assuming it survives. - agree

Move scout patrol east, in case MW’s cause trouble. - agree

Try to rush CP at base #2 - disagree: we get Planned SE choice next turn; let’s save our EC’s for the switch.

Try to drop off unity rover on land, so it can trawl fungus/pop pods - agree: continue moving foil N to map the coast, and drop rover as opportunity presents itself, maybe at the mouth of our newest river.

What next for our former? - Follow N-N-E roading plan since base 4 will be there and connected by the time the former finishes in 7 turns.

What to build in base #3?- too soon to tell How about a probe team which we load into our foil for some covert ops?

Last edited by Net Warrior on 22-07-2004 at 06:08

	22-07-2004 06:11									#323
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quote: Originally posted by Net Warrior Try to rush CP at base #2 - disagree: we get Planned SE choice next turn; let’s save our EC’s for the switch.

How about we re-evaluate our energy distribution? It is currently set to 80-20, which is the best way to emphasize labs. It could probably be set to 20-80 to emphasize econ just as strongly, but even that would only generate ~5 energy per turn. We won't have enough to switch to planned anytime soon unless we kill mindworms or pop pods (which we will hopefully do with a captured, real mindworm).

	22-07-2004 06:30									#324
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We just don't have a whole lot of raw energy....yet. I'm fine with balancing the sliders. If we do get to planned, the efficiency hit for non-50-50 sliders is considerable, even for Gaians. Like I said before, we're in no position to do any meaningful research after PlanNets. Let's try to build infrastructure and perhaps trade for techs, then focus on research. We have all the knowledge we need to expand like mad and terraform. We even have a foil to make contact.

I like the Probe Team in the queue idea. Maybe we can make that our standard Under-10 minerals build, in case of a free rush.

Agree with movement plans. Oh I so want a Mindworm capture!

As to switching to planned vs. a rush build. We're aiming for the same objective: Fast growth. Since we don't have the EC's for Planned, and are not likely to have them in the next 5 or so turns, I suggest rushing the CP. Our new rover could find some ECs, so maybe wait one more turn?

	22-07-2004 06:42									#325
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Hey, I just realized. If we put base 4 on our new river SW, that would enclose the monolith, and we'd get 2 energy for the base and 2 for the monolith $ ca-ching

Also, balancing the slider now only goes from 1-9 to 2-11, probably better staying at 1-9

	22-07-2004 06:57									#326
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The CP will be done in 2118 if we don't rush it, so if we rush, it's next turn or never. The rush cost will be 7 ECs (we should have 8 at the start of next turn). In so doing, we:

Gain 3 minerals directly
Lose 2 nutrients and 1 mineral from losing a worker a turn early
Gain 2 nutrients, 1 mineral, and 1 energy (put in labs) from having a base 1 turn sooner
Gain 2 nutrients and 1 mineral from having a worker at a new base 1 turn sooner
Free up our scout patrol

Totals:
+2 nutrients
+4 minerals
-7 energy
+1 lab point
+1 turn of scouting/hunting worms

Looks pretty favorable to me


Putting base #4 on the river end is certainly a viable option.

	22-07-2004 07:08									#327
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quote: Originally posted by Net Warrior Hey, I just realized. If we put base 4 on our new river SW, that would enclose the monolith, and we'd get 2 energy for the base and 2 for the monolith $ ca-ching Also, balancing the slider now only goes from 1-9 to 2-11, probably better staying at 1-9

Edit: Oh I see. You do mean base 4 I think. Not too bad really.

Base 4, or base 5? Seems like 4 should be towards the Flats, if not in the flats. Lets see, how many turns would it take to park base 4 on or next to that nut bonus....yuck, 6 or seven turns to move from FT to the middle of the flats. No, I think we should go with our 'power block' of 4 bases originally planned, and now swapped in order of build.

So we rush the CP, yes?

Looks like our former might want to continue to the coast b/c the mindworms could attack it if it makes a move North

	22-07-2004 07:22									#328
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Wow, and I thought the SW river site was a no brainer...ok show me the math The SW river will produce 4 nut, 3 min, and 4 energy, and do so on the CP's 4th turn. Total 11

The Nut bonus site will produce 5 nut, 3 min, and 3 energy, and do so in either 7 or 8 turns. Total 11 with 33 or 44 production lost vs the SW river site.

	22-07-2004 07:42									#329
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We'll have the southern scout patrol hunting wayward mindworms anyway, so the former should be protected if it heads north.

	22-07-2004 07:52									#330
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quote: Originally posted by Net Warrior Wow, and I thought the SW river site was a no brainer...ok show me the math The SW river will produce 4 nut, 3 min, and 4 energy, and do so on the CP's 4th turn. Total 11 The Nut bonus site will produce 5 nut, 3 min, and 3 energy, and do so in either 7 or 8 turns. Total 11 with 33 or 44 production lost vs the SW river site.

Maybe you missed my edit. I think that site is good. I was just calculating the distance/value to the nut bonus outloud in a casual way.

The real value of our original base-3 site is it's on the way to the flats, saving at least a turn for any CPs it produces that head that way. It also saves turns on formers it produces, should we want to clear a path through the fungus.

There is no question that your river base site is superior for production. It's just a question of when and how.

----------------

Former: So you both think it should head north or northeast and not finish a road to the coast? That's fine with me too.

----------------

Southern Scout: It won't be in position to protect the initial former move NE. Not for 2+ turns. This is why I was suggesting finishing the road to the coast.