07-07-2004 00:17									#151
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So now we're not waiting to complete our 1st research before pod popping? That sounds like a reasonable gamble to me. I'm surprised that popping a monolith or a special didn't occur more frequently. It seems to me that those are ususally among the 1st things I get during both SP and PBEM.

BTW, how about putting the Weather Paradigm in the build window before popping that pod. I've never seen it happen but wouldn't it be a hoot if we got it completed by the pod.

	07-07-2004 00:31									#152
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SP's don't get completed by pods. It was a question, but I think it's been answered. Too bad!

Also, testing pod-popping in an MP game is really time consuming. As Obs pointed out, the results DO get locked down a bit, meaning 1-4 or so of the same results out of what, 8 possibles? It's hard to break that lockdown in testing. Much like testing Ironman.

Anyways, yeah, I think the feeling is to take the gamble of the pod. But what to put in the build queue? A former I think. We don't have many choices.

-S

	07-07-2004 03:05									#153
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Agreed.

For that matter, if we chose to, we could avoid a rush build by placing the SP in the build window. That way we increase our chances of something more favorable than a mere former.

Last edited by Net Warrior on 07-07-2004 at 03:24

	07-07-2004 03:57									#154
	Remove this text

2104 is in our hands. What to do? The other teams are fast. Let's try to keep up.

-S

	07-07-2004 04:14									#155
	Inflate your Upload Space

We are 5 hours into the turn, actually. The last turns were:
9 minutes (Enigma)
13 hours (Chaunk)
8 hours (Maniac)

It would be nice to tie 8 hours, but that leaves only 3 hours to decide:

Where to move the former?

As I take it, everything else is planned, well almost:

Build new base: Set queue to Former (debated)
Move scout onto Unity Pod (agreed)
Move new former SW (my opinion now, agreeing to base SW)
Set Gaia's Landing to build CP
Check sliders for tech in-probably 5 more turns, depending on the outcome of the podpopping. Tech is priority absolutely.

So respond Gaians!

	07-07-2004 04:24									#156
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I Think we're all agreed on the following:

Plant the base. Slider stays 20/80 and we complete research in 2107. Put a former in the build window of both bases for now. Try to pop the pod, then do a mid-turn save to see where we're at.

	07-07-2004 04:36									#157
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I think I'll make a half-turn and save at 20:00 Apolyton time. I don't see any opposition to:

build the new base
set the queue to formers
move the scout to the pod (hopefully)

except for the formers in the queue. I really think that's for the best. The odd-improvement is true, with an SP in both queues, but it also improves the odds of getting a tech (blech).

I'm doing it unless I get a PM, email, or post here by 20:00 hours. We need people to start pre-planning our moves a bit more thoroughly, rather than just making an opinion on a single issue at a time. The turns will get complex soon.

-Smack

	07-07-2004 04:38									#158
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Agreed and agreed.

	07-07-2004 04:41									#159
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Ah, we cross-posted. I'll take that as approval, since we seem alone here. It's that or wait for tomorrow. I'd like to not have any excuse for people saying 'Yeah the game isn't fun because the Gaians are needlessly slow'. We are a great team, but in some turmoil at the moment. Let's keep gameface for the other factions

I'm opening the turn

	07-07-2004 04:43									#160
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Do it

	07-07-2004 04:46									#161
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Food for thought: Both of our bases are adjacent to at least 1 fungus square, and I really, really dislike having them unmanned. I'd like to build scout patrols in both now. We can set base 2, Fallow Times, to build a CP next turn. The timing will be perfect for base growth and build completion in 10 turns. As for the former, I'm torn between connecting our 2 bases, building a solar collector, and roading 3 tiles for our base to gain turn advantage. Help! Maybe after (if) we pop the pod our course will be clearer.

	07-07-2004 04:56									#162
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The pod had: An earthquake! bad bad. But, at least it wasn't in the jungle, or connecting us to enemies. Maybe now our luck will start improving:

Attachment: fallowtime2.jpg
This has been downloaded 23 time(s).

	07-07-2004 04:58									#163
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Were set for tech soon, thank goodness:

Attachment: techin3a.jpg
This has been downloaded 23 time(s).

	07-07-2004 05:03									#164
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Net Warrior, you want to set scouts to build, or CPs? You said both, kinda .

My opinion is for GL:CP, FT:Scout

This would allow our FTime scout to head back to GL and get the other pod, re-homing to 3rd base after GL's CP is planted. while our independent continues north or explores a little bit more, or trolls the fungus.

As much as I agree that we need garrisons, remember, things are going very slowly here compared to a usual game. We are only 4 turns in! Only an AI would have built another scout at this point, in my experience. I think we can wait till 2115 to have garrisons. But scouts for trolling fungus, that's another matter entirely.

Suggested Turnplay time: 23:00 Apolyton time.

Suggested Moves: Former SW to build road, sliders are fine.
Suggested Queues: GL:CP, FT:S

-Smack

	07-07-2004 05:15									#165
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Possible future moves for former and a Scout I'm suggesting we build at FT. Of course there are many other possibilities as well. Again, looking for turn-play at 23:00 Apolyton time, for a good impression on this easy turn.

Attachment: fallowtime2a.jpg
This has been downloaded 28 time(s).

	07-07-2004 05:18									#166
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

If it wasn't for bad luck, we'd have no luck at all. We really have one heck of a miserable starting position.

At this point I'd like to move the former north and road the rocky square and then north again and road that rainy rolling square, with possibly a solar to follow, depending on the circumstances. That will explore 1 square, connect our bases, and give us a bit of a start on roading for the CP. Maybe we'll get lucky in the south and pop something good so we won't need our former there right away.

I still want to build 2 scout patrols now and then a CP in Fallow Time. I hate to sound like a broken record but I want some scouts.

Last edited by Net Warrior on 07-07-2004 at 16:00

	07-07-2004 05:34									#167
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Not at all. Thanks for clarifying. Your previous suggestion was quantum-entangled building.

Anyways, Obstructor convinced me in the Chat room yesterday that we should be putting the next CP in the Southwest. Even so, that's not a reason, of necessity to build a road in that direction. It would save two turns though, which is pretty significant.

Typically I don't connect my bases for some time, if other things are pressing, such as turn-advantage in another direction, or getting a 2-nut square going for a weak base site. I would never road that rocky square first unless I was positive that all future CPs should be going north. In that case, definately. It would explore 2-squares, btw.

So we disagree. This is good. But we need a third to break the deadlock. I'll PM a few Gaians right now.

-S

	07-07-2004 07:55									#168
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Just got smacksim's PM. My theory on terraforming priorities:

1) increase nutrients to 2/sector (no problem here since everywhere is rainy)
2) built roads to speed expansion
3) build forests in flat or arid tiles, or moist tiles if have enough +2 tiles (at least 2/base)
4) optimize specials (nut/energy/mins) by removing fungus or rocky, then build improvement
5) selectively build special improvements, such as solar collectors (may be further down the list early)
6) build sensors to defend existing bases
7) build sensors in tile of new bases

So, I’m in the road camp. Early connectiveness = turn advantage.

As to building, I typically do:
former (rush)
scout
CP

But, I'll defer to others if a decision has already been made.

Hydro

	07-07-2004 08:06									#169
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I've had my say and I've got to sign off. I'll defer to the acting Lord Of Development.

	07-07-2004 08:30									#170
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It's 23:00, so I'm going to play the turn. and post the pre-end save to our forums and the post-end-turn save to the ACDG forums.

I'll work out a probably schedule for our upcoming turns so we don't have to feel rushed.

-Smack

	07-07-2004 14:08									#171
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quote: Originally posted by smacksim The pod had: An earthquake! bad bad. But, at least it wasn't in the jungle, or connecting us to enemies. Maybe now our luck will start improving:

Earthquakes aren't all bad. They raise the terrain for better solars, and being on the western side of the earthquake, it makes your terrain more rainy. Not a great pop, but not as bad as some think, IMHO.

	07-07-2004 15:51									#172
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Good idea about setting a schedule for upcomming turns. Next turn doesn't seem too complicated. We'll have to decide where to move our 2 scouts, what to do with the former, and what to build at Fallow Times. Also, be sure to remember to move the worker to the rainy rolling square in Fallow Times next turn.

I suggest, while moving through as much fungus as possible, exploring with the Independent Scout Patrol (ISP) and popping that southern pod with the Fallow Times Scout Patrol (FTSP). Build a CP at Fallow times.

I guess the plan is to road with the former, although solar-road would be ok by me. We are energy starved. At 15 turns to build a CP, we need to get to Planned SE ASAP to shave some time off our builds (another form of turn advantage).

Last edited by Net Warrior on 07-07-2004 at 16:15

	07-07-2004 16:47									#173
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I wonder if other factions will be notified that "rainfall patterns have been altered near Fallow Times"? Maybe a CMN can enlighten us?

	07-07-2004 17:28									#174
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I'll have a look at the turns when I get home and see.

	07-07-2004 22:04									#175
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I'm in favor of a solar panel, maybe with a road before or after. CPs as fast as possible are good, but a scout is probably best in base #2 now. I hope we get some energy, from worms or pods, by the time we get Planned.

	07-07-2004 22:07									#176
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Well, we shouldn't be informed if they get the message or not. Often you can 'see' that worldwide rainfall has changed as the game engine updates every tile to the new pattern, even far away.

Agree that we are desparately energy starved.

In some ways I like being 'behind' in tech for awhile. It keeps our opportunities open for stealing/trading to various plateaus. We have formers. That is the big thing. Just think. Some factions don't have formers yet. Another thing(s) about building a solar:
population speed is more important than tech speed, this early in the game, in general. Planned will help, so:

Tech in 3 infonets. That's pretty much that.
PlaNets in ?. We could finish a solar on the first turn of this, doubling our energy output, but, we lack the EC's to switch to Planned, and we give up a 1 or 2 turn advantage with the new CP, possibly, depending on how far we need to road.

What really needs to be calculated then is

• How long to CP build currently (I've forgotten)
  
• How many former turns, including moving will it take to road to a proper base site
  
• Do we therefore have enough time to solar and road
  

	07-07-2004 23:28									#177
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One more thing to consider: Gaia's Landing will be size 2 in 8 turns but a CP there will not be completed for 14 turns. That's not a probelm because we have a rainy rolling square to work. OTOH, Fallow Times becomes size 2 in 11 turns and the CP we start next turn will also take 14 turns to complete. Here we don't have a good square to work, a 2-0-0 or a 1-1-0 IIRC. So that's 5 turns with an underutilized worker. We need a forest!

I'm toying with the heretic idea of building another former instead of 2 CP's. That allows 1 base to grow to size 2 and if we forest there we can build a CP at that base next, twice as fast.

	08-07-2004 00:18									#178
	Put an end to popups!

In SP I often build lots of formers like that, ie, instead of CPs or scouts. But consider the Gaians mindworm capturing. This is a faction that should always keep that in mind. I'm starting to lean towards trying to rush the upcoming CP so we can afford a new scout somewhere.

-S

	08-07-2004 03:55									#179
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I've been advocating for scouts all along. I'm glad to get some more support. What I'd really like is to build a scout at Gaia's landing immediately which should take 4 more turns and then a CP. During the CP build the base will grow to size 2 and with a forest in place the build should be relatively quick. During this time we would solar immediately and then move the former NW to forest (no time for roads). I'd also like to build a former at Fallow Times immediately (10 turns) and then have our formers work together to road for the CP we'll be building. In the mean time we'll be exploring with our scouts and hoping for a good pod pop south.

I don't expect complete agreement but if you do disagree then please outline your plan in at least as much detail.

	08-07-2004 04:11									#180
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Well, let's debate the issues before trying to outline our
Plan of Action for 2105

I'm for CP at Gaia's. Population turn advantage is the most important. Secondly, building a scout first will mean the CP, when it's born, will cause 1 support for Gaias. Not much, but a 'waste'. If we build the scout second, it'll be born after the CP has established a new base, so no support issues there. The new scout can go re-home if Gaia's builds yet another CP. Keep the support issues = 0 if possible.

I did hear ya the two other times you brought up building scouts. Like I said before, we are early into the game yet, security wise. The main thrust of scouts is to find a worm or pop pods this early. After 2115, that's another story.

Former: solar then road. We have a bit of a cushion on getting any road to a new base site done, hence the solar first, but it is a bit of turn-unadvantage to leave a square un-roaded with a former. The forest idea seems good, but is NW fungus? I'll have to look at the pic again. On the other hand, as Obs pointed out, the forest can wait. The turn advantage of roading into the new base site seems much more important to me now.
Fallow Time: I think we have time to make a former there and then a CP and not 'waste' too many turns at size 2.

What we really need are some ECs for rushing the GL colony pod and the FT former. Hopefully our new FT-scout will find one.

Our independent scout. Agree that NE is a good direction? Into the fungus we go.

After we debate a little I'll post 2 alternate 'Plans of Action' for voting. Not that anyone else is here Net I really appreciate you posting. It's getting awefully lonely here in Gaia without Obstructor.

-Smack