15-09-2004 00:28									#91
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by smacksim Good work Illuminatus. I can't quite make complete sense of the deliberations, but it looks like you are thinking we will get a commlink out of them anyways? And no foil? That would be more than fair.

I doubt it. No foil, but we may get IA for two units +Bio. Their refusal to clarify which comlink it is puzzling. Either they a) met Hive b) met Lal/Zak - and they wanted foil to transport their probes for sharing information

	15-09-2004 00:41									#92
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

If they are willing to use their probes, I think we should consider giving them a lift, which means loaning the foil. We could both benefit from their probe operations. But yeah, no sense in giving them the foil if we didn't have to!

	15-09-2004 07:42									#93
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

At Eventis, the Angels have accepted IA for spore launcher + unity rover + Biogenetics. I answered for them some straightforward questions. In particular, we do not know for certain if we can research Biogenetics next turn.

We should review what this trade means:
We receive Biogenetics (effectively)
They receive Biogenetics
We give a mostly-worthless spore launcher to them
We give an encumbered, but still useful unity rover to them

	15-09-2004 10:39									#94
	Get a bigger avatar today!

The sorry thing is that the SL and rover will be re-homed to Rock-Paper-Sci, making the SL even less useful to them, while the rover will eat some support value. Too bad they couldn't be kept independent.

	15-09-2004 12:44									#95
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Ok, then let's do it and basta, I'm getting tired of talks of giving foil to them..

	09-10-2004 21:25									#96
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

The value we give to our respective offers is appearantly a bit to disparitive. I therefore call of this request for negotiations for the time being.

As for Progenitor Psych, I am sure I told already that the Data Angels are in the possession of this technology. Perhaps some miscommunications with Lord Ouro (again!)?

Also, may we ask after next turn the year at which the Gaians present research is finished? In case the Union probes the Hive successfully this year will probably change, so we wish for an update.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, story behind this is short - Angels proposed AP for commlink with Spartans and our charts! I told them that deal is far too poor, that we do not consider Applied Physics of much value, and that they will need to increase their offer, and I also mentioned that our maps are extensive and too valuable to be traded for such a low offer. I also inquiered if PP is available for trade, and that we may trade the commlink for PP or ecs. This is how he responded.

	09-10-2004 23:20									#97
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Why are we trying to obtain Progenitor Psych? I value it quite a bit less than Applied Physics.

	09-10-2004 23:26									#98
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Well, I thought we could use sth else. I guess we should for AP then?

	10-10-2004 22:28									#99
	Got spare money?

I proposed commlink and 15 credits + screenshot of their continent for AP. Apparently they are discussing if to accept the offer. If they accept we will get AP and 10 credits from both Spartans and Angels MY 2143.

	11-10-2004 16:18									#100
	Get a bigger avatar today!

This is map info I will send Angels.

Attachment: to angelsmapinformation.jpg
This has been downloaded 31 time(s).

	11-10-2004 19:50									#101
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: If they accept we will get AP and 10 credits from both Spartans and Angels MY 2143

Youre damn smart my dear Illuminatus!

	11-10-2004 20:25									#102
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Perhaps I phrased it badly - what I meant was that in total we will get AP and 10 credits from them. I still do not believe that we will succed in timing - it is crucial that Spartans accept their part of the deal as Angels will have to.

	11-10-2004 21:32									#103
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Is AP the only tech that the Spartans will trade us? We should get a different tech from each...

	12-10-2004 12:53									#104
	Tired of ads?

So can anyone get a list of the techs they're willing to trade?

	12-10-2004 20:20									#105
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Spartans will not trade us AP - they will give us 25 credits. Iritant Angels will trade us AP for commlink and 15 credits. 25-15=10 credits + AP.

	12-10-2004 21:19									#106
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

OK.... now I understand. Good job!

	12-10-2004 22:10									#107
	Full PM-box? Change here!

job. We should be prepared for their reaction when they realise we traded commlinks to both factions. (Spartans will be well surprised when they are saluted by Angels, and Angels will be also surprised when they learn we traded their freq to Spartans too).

	13-10-2004 00:10									#108
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I know it can be a tad confusing... but still! What ought they expect from us? I just wonder how close those two will become?

	13-10-2004 13:34									#109
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Hehe, we're damn close to Morgan in our nature..

	13-10-2004 21:09									#110
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

indeed. Why sell it to best competitor? Sell it to both competitors

	13-10-2004 21:18									#111
	Tired of ads?

Morgan would be licking boots. And not running through the trees naked while making the deal!

	14-10-2004 01:13									#112
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Gentlemen,

Selling any comm link to the AI or especially a human player is a terrible idea. You instantly lose the ability to trade tech from one faction to the other since then the monopoly is gone. Information is power, my friends, as is the power to keep your opponents in the dark.

But, since I’m all alone on this I’ll slink back into my corner.

Hydro

	14-10-2004 01:27									#113
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

It isn't so much that we don't agree Hydro, but did you notice the clause that the Spartans wanted for their tech trades? Dunno how often you are here, but they wanted a TWENTY year ban on tech trading after they traded it to us. Plus, it helps our friendships along....

	14-10-2004 02:24									#114
	Suffering from ads?

The Hive has met everyone anyway, so everyone can buy everyone else's commlink if Yang will speak with them. It's too late to try to keep everyone isolated.

Furthermore, we can't act like we haven't met others, thanks to the ability to pull up a trade window with human factions we haven't yet met.

	14-10-2004 19:48									#115
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Hydro Gentlemen, Selling any comm link to the AI or especially a human player is a terrible idea. You instantly lose the ability to trade tech from one faction to the other since then the monopoly is gone. Information is power, my friends, as is the power to keep your opponents in the dark. But, since I’m all alone on this I’ll slink back into my corner. Hydro

We know, Hydro, but it is nice to see you. However, Spartans have good relations with Hive, and they can purchase it from thme. Furthermore, they both knew - Angels know we had commlink of Spartans, and Spartans knew we had contact with Angels. If we have refused to do so, we would worsen relations with both. I really don't see what else we could do. "I am sorry, but we don't want to trade you the commlink." - to both of them?

	14-10-2004 22:05									#116
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

The Gaian response to an inquiry for a comm channel could be: I am not authorized to divulge that data at this time, or some other brush off. Keep in mind that they have no reason within the game to know we have these channels. Moreover, if they want it they can pay – dearly, and not some measly tens of credits. The same with the Angels.

It is possible they could get the channels from Yang. But, you are assuming the Spartans aren’t lying when about their treaties to gain advantage. If Yang is ambivalent to hostile he’ll tell them to bug off. Ditto for the Angels.

If it said-and-done then there is no point discussing the matter further.

Hydro

	14-10-2004 23:54									#117
	Get a bigger avatar today!

There is a game mechanism which allows to tell whenever we meet someone. Moreover, Hive probably does have treaty with Sparta, and Sparta is trolling around in it's rover - they can buy it from him for 25 credits.
Also, why did you not make your point earlier? I don't know if should we cancel the deal now. If you wish, we can have a poll about it.

Last edited by Illuminatus on 15-10-2004 at 00:05

	21-10-2004 21:44									#118
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Seems Eventis is down, for a longer time. Anyway, there are several important issues. Spartans can provide us with Doctrine: Flexibility - so we can get you both techs, Flex and Mobility, if you agree. You would be able to assist us in our new research beeline by using your accumulated points then (details will follow later). However, to cut deal with Spartans for Doctrine: Flexiblity, we will need two informations from you: 1) What is your best estimation of MY of completion of your current research? (in order to know how long trade embargo we can accept and be able to trade it to you before you finish your research) 2) How many energy credits do you have available currently (rounded estimation is enough) for trade (to assist us in barter for Flexiblity and other techs we can later give to you)?
We would appreciate fast response, if possible. Also send your reply to both me, Ouro and CT, in order for message to be received as fast as possible.
-----------------------------------
Sent to GeoModder. Note: Eventis is down, and it seems to be serious this time.

	21-10-2004 23:56									#119
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

In short: Spartans are negotiating with us as well about trading Doc:Flex,
but they ask a ridiculous embargo time.

Just recieved from Geo! He asked you Illum to check your PMs, and he seemed irritated with the Spartans....

	22-10-2004 00:02									#120
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Yes, that is a pretty good summary, Spartans are trying to sell us both the same technologies ( I wonder if they are copying us ). I suggested Geo that we pool our resources in future negotiations with Spartans for Flexibility, and mentioned as well that they offered us Flex without embargo for a ridiculously large sum. Perhaps we should suggest a full temporary pact in future diplomatic negotiatons with Spartans, in order to avoid this?