17-11-2004 01:13									#151
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quote: Considering your last message, we have come to the following offer. This will allow us also to take from Morgan Industries possibility to build PEG by them. This needs still to be agreed upon with Spartans, but we will conduct talks with them trying to reach agreement as soon as possible. 1. Gaians transfer in year 2148 (the next Gaian turn) pre-accepted - Doctrine: Mobility - Doctrine: Loyality to Data Angels 2. Data Angels exchange with Spartan Federation: - Doctrine: Loyality for: - Doctrine: Flexibility - Ethical Calculus which would be effective in the year 2149 3. Data Angels transfer: - Doctrine: Flexibility - Ethical Calculus to Gaian Union in the year 2153 or earlier. Spartans will be given a condition, that this trade with them can go only if they will not embargo both techs beyond 2153, effectively Gaian Union will receive both techs in 2154 or earlier. Both Doctrine: Flexibility and Ethical Calculus are very valuable and Spartans realize it very well. We will try to do our best. 4. Very crucial point for us (Data Angels) also: If Spartan Federation agrees to trade both Doctrine: Flexibility and Ethical Calculus to Data Angels and forward it to other factions no later than 2153, then Gaian Union forfeits its right to build Command Nexus and allows Spartan Federation to complete this Secret Project. It is needed for Data Angels to protect our credibility and also good relations with Spartan Federation. We also think that guarantee to Spartan Federation of their completion of Command Nexus may be crucial in obtaining both Doctrine: Flexibility and Ethical Calculus and possibility to forward it to Gaian Union in or before 2153. If we guarantee Command Nexus to Spartans, we will not mention Gaian ability to build it, but we wish to have your guarantee in return. Data Angels honour is at stake here. Please understand this. 5. We would be interested in exchanging: - Social Psych for: - Technology of choice with the Gaian Union, as you have already proposed. We are open for further discussion regarding this. IT Mart

quote: Sorry for commenting on this only now, however, if you need guarantee, you can freely offer guarantee in our name (we decided not to build it, indeed we would be finished next turn it if we wanted to), and if you need more incentive, you can add guarantee we won't build CDF either (we also declined from attempting to build it). Also, if there is any possibility for Doctrine: Flexibility to be transmitted to us as early as possible, we would be grateful if you can explore it. Yang has gone on a quiet build up of impact units, and Flexibility is needed to help our defense/probing efforts, which have shown useful for both of our three factions. Regarding your fifth proposition, I will notify the council of this - we are quite stretched in our manpower resources this week, and we may not reply with our proposal for couple of days. We apologize for this.

My reply.

	17-11-2004 14:23									#152
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Good work Illuminatus!

I appreciate that you understood how good this deal is if only all sides sign it!

	18-11-2004 20:13									#153
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quote: To Gaian Union, We thank you for the response to our proposal and questions. Presently we are corresponding with Spartans regarding Doctrine Flexibility and Ethical Calculus. It appears that we will be able to forward Doctrine Flexibility to you much sooner than we expected, although Ethical Calculus may take a bit longer time. In this regard, if Gaian Union forwards yet in this mission year 2148 both Doctrine Mobility and Doctrine Loyality to us pre-accepted, we expect to be able to forward to you Doctrine Flexibility in MY 2149, which you will receive in MY 2150. This is even sooner than expected date from our research. Ethical Calculus may take some longer time, but at the present moment we cannot say about any specific date. Since you indicated the threat which Human Hive poses to other factions and urgent need of Doctrine Flexibility, I think that it may be beneficial to proceed in this way. Furthermore, since Gaian Union is in war with Human Hive, and would forward to us two technologies in advance, which we will greatly appreciate because of your trust towards Data Angels, we consider an additional aid to Gaian Union to help your war effort. We will inform you shortly about details. IT Mart

quote: We thank you for your generosity, and the turn is cuurently in Gaian hands, and the techs are being transferred as I speak.

quote: To Gaian Union, We have received the 2148 turn without the technologies Doctrine Loyality and Doctrine Mobility. In this case the possibility of forwarding Doctrine Flexibility to Gaian Union in 2149 will be delayed one more year or possibly more, if Spartan talks fail. What is current position of the Gaian Union towards the proposed exchange, Doctrine Loyality and Doctrine Mobility for Doctrine Flexibility and Ethical Calculus? IT Mart

I opened presend turn, and we sent them Doctine: Mobility, not preaccepted? Why did Ouro say we agree, if A) there was no talk here about it and B) CT didn't send them preaccepted techs? Just after they commended us for our trust this happened. What and why?

	18-11-2004 23:23									#154
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Hell, didn't remember. I wonder if it's too late to correct the turn.

	19-11-2004 14:02									#155
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quote: Hi, This is a private message, outside the official channels. One of the key issues in the deal we are discussing is not allowing Yang to complete the Command Nexus. In your recent post on eventis you wrote that Hive will complete it in 6 turns. My question is important in this that we will trade Loyality with Spartans and need to decide on some details about it. Do you have impression or maybe know if Yang used a crawler to speed up Command Nexus completion in the last two turns? What is his mineral production in that base? I will appreciate answer to these questions or one of them, if you cannot reveal some infiltration data. Thanks, Marcin

I believe I can answer him this question, if no one opposes to do so. I replied him that I will make the reply in 12 hours. What do you say? I would answer him all his questions - it won't divulge anything important to them and will build trust with them. Although I wonder about what details are they deciding about.

	19-11-2004 14:31									#156
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Go ahead and divulge the information. IIRC, Yang has not speeded his SP production with a crawler recently, and the base's mineral output we can of course determine.

	19-11-2004 22:48									#157
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quote: Hi. I looked at data and here is what we know. Hive has not yet hurried CN. The Leader's Horde is name of the base producing it. It currently produces 11 minerals per turn. It has accumulated 38/120 minerals. However, Hive will this turn (actually, because of turn order, it alread has produced it) produce a simple supply crawler (21/18 minerals, Hive was also producing CN but AI redirected production some turns ago and this are carry over minerals from it). Suffice it to say that Leader's Horde is two tiles apart and roaded - so you should take in account that supply crawler is very likely added to accumulated minerals. Glad to help. -Illu

Sent.

	22-11-2004 15:52									#158
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What is going on tech trade then?

Has it only been delayed, I mean - Is agreement stated above still in force (just with +1 MY to each date) ?

	26-11-2004 20:39									#159
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quote: To Gaian Union, We have received Doctrine Flexibility from Spartan Federation, as we agreed previously with them without any embargo. Thus the Gaian Union will receive Doctrine Flexibility during your next turn. We will post it pre-accepted yet this MY 2149. We hope this will significantly improve your war efforts against the Human Hive. We wish you the best. We further attempt to negotiate the best deal on Ethical Calculus, however Spartans are very tough negotiators. I cannot presently say anything more specific, as we have not yet reached any mutually acceptable terms. I can say however, that we continue to have good relations, and as they appear also improving, with the Spartan Federation, which is a good sign. I will post soon more information on development of events which interests Gaian Union. IT Mart

	26-11-2004 21:10									#160
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quote: We do have to agree that the biggest threat presented to each faction on planet is Morgan Industries. Regardless of our current/future relations with them, they are the biggest and most immediate threat to our survival. This is why I simultanuously suggest this pact to you and High Council. Although no direct actions against Morgan is required from any of our respective factions, we should share our intelligence data on him between us, as well as our hypothesis about their future actions. We would establish a databank regarding Morgan activities. We can both contribute by adding data about technologies that are in ther possesion (like their recent aquisitions of Mobility and Flexibility) and other possible data. Gaian Union can also provide you with data on their relations with Yang, since we have infiltrated his networks (the fact that these two faction have good relations is concerning). We would provide each other with new info as soon as we discover it. Terms are open for proposal and negotiations. What do you say?

Proposed to Angels. I think this is a good idea since a) Morgans are obviously our enemy b) we improve relations by cooperation with Angels -> this opens new opportunities to do so c) we increase trust between each other and get them used to work with us an believe us d) we will get their perspective and knowledge about Morgan. What do you think?

	26-11-2004 21:13									#161
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Well, you should have made a poll first!

But I'm for it regardless of your undemocratical decision!

	26-11-2004 21:19									#162
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simultanuously suggest this pact to you and High Council. - I said I suggested it to them and Council. I did not imply that we already agreed. However sentiment on both their and our side indicated to me that something like this does not need to be discussed - indeed I expect they will be interested in it. BTW, why don't you participate in diplomacy more? Volunteer as ambassador.

	26-11-2004 21:21									#163
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Come into ICQ:
339-500-616

quote: BTW, why don't you participate in diplomacy more? Volunteer as ambassador.

time, time..

	26-11-2004 21:22									#164
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The Angels do not seem to have time either . You would perfectly serve as a new, seemingly neutral face in diplomacy.

	26-11-2004 21:24									#165
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quote: You would perfectly serve as a new, seemingly neutral face in diplomacy.

To keep my neutrality I will continue to appear as Lord of Progress and speak in the name of Gaian scientists and other talented people..

	03-12-2004 20:31									#166
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quote: To Gaian Union, Explaining our technology trade with Spartan Federation we have to inform the Gaian Union that our negotiation did not go very well. Spartans agreed to trade both Doctrine Flexibility and Ethical Calculus without embargos for the price which was not acceptable. Trading Flexibility and Ethical Calculus was not possible for only Doctrine Loyalty, and it became apparent that this trade will fail if we would not go for compromise. Also we knew that Doctrine Loyality was not that valuable for Spartans that they might even refuse to release one of these technologies for it. Considering urgency of obtaining Doctrine Flexibility by both our factions we went ahead and traded this technology with Spartans. Presently we consider renegotiated offer for Ethical Calculus to Spartan Union and we intend to continue until we reach mutual acceptable agreement, although we do not exclude other means of acquiring this technology. According to our agreement we will transfer Ethical Calculus to the Gaian Union as soon as we have it. It is presently one of our top priorities to acquire this technology in the fastest possible way. We do realize that Gaian Union is in need of it. We also feel, that failure to acquire both Flexibility and Ethical Calculus from Spartans is for both our factions unfortunate, though present partial trade have its benefits. These benefits will be also shared by the Gaian Union. IT Mart

	04-12-2004 02:26									#167
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And you posted it before me... just as a possible notification... the School District is playing with their filters, and this site is on the hotlist to be excluded... So, if I go quiet suddenly, they probably cut it off...

	13-12-2004 13:08									#168
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quote: Originally posted by Mart7x5 To Gaian Union, We would like to ask what is the status of your response to recently submitted by us technology trade proposal. On another issue, we have had recently quite succesful talks with the Spartan Federation regarding Ethical Calculus. Spartans agree to release it under the condition for us and the Gaian Union not to undertake to build the Citizen's Defence Force. Since you have already mentioned that in one of our correspondence, I presume you would be able to agree on it. There is also an additional benefit to us, Spartans are willing to not to undertake building the Ascetic Virtues SP. Thus if we succeed to acquire the technology allowing Ascetic Virtues SP before all other factions, we can decide which faction Gaian Union or Data Angels completes this SP. In return we, Angels, would attempt to research Intellectual Integrity and forward this technology to Spartan Federation as soon as we research it. We still need to agree on few details pertaining to this trade, but overall it seems very beneficial to both of us and possible to happen very soon. Thus both our factions would be able to pop boom quite soon, which will definitely counterbalance Morganic advantages. It appears that closer cooperation between three our factions, Gaians, Spartans and Angels is possible. We await your reply. IT Mart

	22-12-2004 23:56									#169
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quote: RPS Base, MY 2153 To Gaian Union, We would like to inquire you what is the technology presently researched by the Gaian Union. In one of previous correspondence we were informed it was Ecological Engineering. Is this true? Would the Gaian Union be interested in trading it at the time it will be researched? IT Mart

Also.

quote: Thank you for this information, it is then fact that Ethical Calculus will soon loose some of its value and it is traded at the time when it still has some higher price. I cannot know what are Gaian possibilities regarding probing the Human Hive, however the benefit of obtaining the technology from other friendly faction will spare you a base for possible easier acquiring yet another useful technology. You should receive Ethical Calculus very shortly, I hope this is not the only tech Gaian agent might obtain from Yang?

My replies:

quote: Answer to both questions is yes. However, can we get data on technology you are researching? If we are correct, you mentioned something about researching IntInt for Spartans? Is this correct and are you willing to trade it when finished? Ill

quote: Yang indeed has many technologies we (you and we) do not have, but most of them are military oriented like impact and gatling weapons, optical computers etc. Current plans predict we may probe another technology within next five to seven years, but I cannot give you exact information as most of our probe resources have been allocated to other tasks. Illuminatus ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Might I also ask Angels to again review our counterproposal in the matter of Social Psych trade? We haven't got any response for quite some time.

	31-12-2004 18:28									#170
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quote: RPS Base, MY 2154 To Gaian Union, A short note to you. You will find Ethical Calculus pre-accepted when you open your next turn. We are glad this technology finally is transmitted to you. We are presently researching Intelectual Integrity. The estimated time of completion is though in 28 years, but please be advised that we soon are going to significantly boost our research output. We also exchanged a few technologies with Spartan Federation and the update of our research situation will soon follow. IT Mart

	13-01-2005 22:10									#171
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quote: Illuminatus, No apologies are needed. Spartans scare me a bit too. And this is all knowing that playing Spartans is not actually easy and they can prosper that good. Though Gaians and Data Angels are difficult to play too. Morganities do have advantage. We never directly told Spartans what you research, but they are connecting all loose facts with skill. Regarding this issue, I think they probably pulled out some info from one of our conversations with them pertaining to our research state during switch to Intelectual Integrity, what gave them a helpful clue. Combining this with their databanks state, they made conclusions. If this is what they did, it was nothing deliberate from our side and I regret that it slipped my attention when formulating diplo messages to them. As long as they have technological advantage we probably have to accept being to some extent "transparent" to them as for the researched technologies. Actually, if Spartans approached you with the offer of technologies trade it means that they in fact may need help with their war effort, though they may say differently. That is however not a direct support, but that on peaceful cooperation part. As for their problem with Morganities, I have impression that Spartans made the first move destroying a Morganic vessel, probably on the waters close to Spartan territory, as Jtsisyoda pointed, then they replied with probe team action and conflict escalated. Spartans having bad relations with Zakharov, Yang and Morganities probably will not want yet another war. Did they signed truce with Zakharov? I am not surprised they are dissapointed with our research speed. We have it quite supressed due to drone problems. Our current labs output is actually ridiculous, but not for long and maybe Spartans will be later surprised, if it's possible to surprise them.

quote: RPS Base, MY 2156 To Gaian Union, We have the following proposal to Gaian Union. Data Angels currently posses the following technologies which are not in Gaian databanks: - Progenitor Psych - Optical Computers - Adaptive Economics Since we know that you are going to probe Human Hive bases to extract any technologies Yang may have, we would propose to transfer any or all of these technologies, whichever Human Hive presently posses to Gaian Union before you perform the probing action. This way you do not risk to extract a technology which we currently have, what would be a waste of resources and opportunities. We would agree on transfer of another technology or technologies in exchange for these three or some of them transferred to you. We are open to any suggestion you may have regarding this matter. IT Mart

	13-01-2005 22:47									#172
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I propose a reply to let them know that we had this in mind but currently we have problems with probes - this is why we asked them for credits before, to fund new probes (we really need more probes and sea units). We should tell them we don't plan any probe insertions yet, and that this is why we haven't asked them to trade for any of technologies yet- we are trying to keep our tech cost low.

	13-01-2005 23:21									#173
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good proposal!

	16-01-2005 13:53									#174
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quote: RPS Base, MY 2156 Currently we would prefer not to enter vendetta with Yang. This is what we concluded after the discussion within our forum. We are not completely prepared for war at this moment, and really do have quite energy constraints. Is there any other way we might support you about this problem? About the issue of Yang's coastal bases. Yes, if you could provide us with information regarding their location and possible probe teams presence we would be grateful. IT Mart

	18-01-2005 07:49									#175
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And in return, they might probe for us?

	18-01-2005 14:18									#176
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quote: And in return, they might probe for us?

Yeah.
They will do it anyway, but with less success (without infiltration iformation)

But they can have infiltration in a few turns..

	18-01-2005 15:33									#177
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We asked them for a little map info, and we might as well reciprocate. We don't directly lose anything, and the information they gain isn't groundshaking, and would become available to them soon enough anyway.

	18-01-2005 16:00									#178
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So we can give it as a sign of goodwill and friendship.

	19-01-2005 07:11									#179
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Good. Get them on our good side. Better us than the Spartans.

	26-01-2005 13:02									#180
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quote: ACDG3 RPS Base, MY 2157 The Spore Launcher unit has been transferred this turn to Gaian Union. Since we were discussing it for longer time, I assume you were prepared to receive it. Regarding the technology exchange, please be advised, that in order to be able to switch to Cyberethics we need to increase our technology possesion by 2 new technologies, thus after receiving Intelectual Integrity we will need another technology also. Ecological Engineering is an option, since we can select it and when receiving it from you we could switch to Cyberethics without any lab points lost. IT Mart