06-09-2004 03:07									#241
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Get a rope!!!!

Nah, get a shotgun.

	06-09-2004 03:20									#242
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Why is it arrogant on the part of the Christians?

You've completely misunderstood me. It was about the arguementation of that cleric that I found arrogant

quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker No. They ALREADY gave them independence but that did absolutley nothing and made things worse. There were incursions into neighboring countries. There were terrorist attacks that occured inside Russia.

1) it was not an independance
2) it was a short time
3) it wasn't the state that made this excursion, and it condemned it anyway
4) There were no proofs that the attacks were caused by Chechenians

quote: The Taliban were independent yet Afghanistan became a terrorist haven. So much so that Bin Laden was the equivalent of the Secretary of Defense for Afghanistan at the time. Did the Taliban really want to get rid of terrorism?

I may agree that, since Dudajew's death, Chechenia was too weak to control its territory, and the excursions You've mentioned are example of it. But with a proper help...
And helping little Chechenia in this matter is much easier than big Afghanistan. Anyway, there was still a civil war in Afghanistan, and Talibs were openly fundamental regime, which constitutes a great difference between them and Chechenia.

quote: Being Polish I can understand your feelings toward Russia, but they did not deserve what happened.

Did I say they did?

	06-09-2004 03:22									#243
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Gentlemen,gentlmen...neither a rope nor a shotgun is appropriate in this circumstance.

Stoke the fire, and bring the irons.

	06-09-2004 03:27									#244
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quote: You've completely misunderstood me. It was about the arguementation of that cleric that I found arrogant

Yeah, I was puzzled why you of all people would make that argument.

	06-09-2004 03:28									#245
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Even IF you believe all terrorism would stop against Russia by giving Chechyna independence it gives the impression that blowing schools up and killing kids is an effective tactic for terrorists to get what they desire.

	06-09-2004 03:39									#246
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Yes, and that's kind of moral problem to me.

	06-09-2004 03:45									#247
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk Gentlemen,gentlmen...neither a rope nor a shotgun is appropriate in this circumstance. Stoke the fire, and bring the irons.

While I give the benefit of the doubt that this man is fully guilty and should receive a harsh punishment, he still hasn't yet been proven to be a part of this, just that he's been arrested.

	06-09-2004 03:51									#248
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For a man with a dancing cow, you sure know how to put a damper on things.

	06-09-2004 03:56									#249
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I'm in one of those moods...

EDIT: Err...pun not intended...

Last edited by The Emperor Fabulous on 06-09-2004 at 04:26

	06-09-2004 04:24									#250
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I THINK I saw dancing cows in some movie recently

	06-09-2004 04:26									#251
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That may have been the kung-fu cow in "Kung-Pow: Enter the Fist"

	06-09-2004 04:54									#252
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No.. it was something different.

	06-09-2004 05:06									#253
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My condolences to our Russian friends for this attrocity. It seems as though it was purposefully designed to incite genocide.

	06-09-2004 05:10									#254
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk Gentlemen,gentlmen...neither a rope nor a shotgun is appropriate in this circumstance. Stoke the fire, and bring the irons.

	06-09-2004 05:15									#255
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Barbarians

	06-09-2004 06:01									#256
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We need information from him first. We need to root out the organization that planned and financed this.

	06-09-2004 06:31									#257
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Alright, well let's get some info and then some Texas Justice.

	06-09-2004 06:45									#258
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I don't have much to say but

But I ask this. I have asked this before, but I'll ask it again.

Has terrorism ever worked?

	06-09-2004 07:05									#259
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Yes, Israel state was created. Also, by terrorism, Armenians managed to kill people responsible for conducting the holocaust of Armenians.

	06-09-2004 07:13									#260
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quote: Originally posted by Heresson Yes, Israel state was created.

	06-09-2004 07:21									#261
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker

	06-09-2004 07:29									#262
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker

It's a statement of fact. I don't see anything deserving of a rolleyes attack.

	06-09-2004 07:32									#263
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No it's not, the situation is more complex than that. You can open another thread if you want about it.

	06-09-2004 07:36									#264
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quote: Without the intense pressure exerted by America, it is questionable whether the U.N. would have followed through and created a Jewish state at all. Abandonment of the Palestinian Mandate to the U.N. by the British, although accelerated by terrorism, ultimately resulted in the creation of a state that was much smaller than it otherwise might have been. The result of the terrorist actions of Israel's Irgun and Lehi was a weakened Israel, a half-century of war and insecurity, and thousands of additional Israeli deaths. Had America not backed the cause of Israel in the U.N., terrorism by Jewish extremists could have cost the Israelis their country entirely. Pre-1948 Jewish terrorism can therefore be seen as a classic example of the futility of terrorism as a military strategy.

http://brneurosci.org/israel-terrorism.html

The reason there is an Israel is because the USA told the United Nations to make one.

	06-09-2004 07:36									#265
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Oh, c-mon. Don't argue.Surely it was more complex.
Terrorism wasn't the only thing that created Israel.
Jewish conspiracy was important too!

	06-09-2004 09:09									#266
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker To be fair, they tried giving them independence once. Bascially what they did with their independence was the equivalent of setting up a Taliban run Afghanistan in Montana. A nice base for them to rain terror down on the Russians. The government in Chechnya could not control all of these terrorist elements so the Russians had to protect themselves. Remember, this is AFTER they gave them independence to do whatever they wanted to.

And taking back control helped them so well in the fight against terrorism

	06-09-2004 09:14									#267
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They were doing way better until recently.

	06-09-2004 09:16									#268
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker They were doing way better until recently.

http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/europe/9911/18/osce.summit.03/

	06-09-2004 11:53									#269
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quote: Originally posted by Serb I don't think Russia will turn Chechnya into glass. It would be pretty stupid, just a punishing raid. And punishing raids do not solve the problem, they create new problems. What we need is to increase our security inside the country, perhaps by price of some freedoms, anyhow. I don't care how, but this shouldn't happen again. Also we had to find all those f*ckers and kill them, all terrorists, all their camps, no matter where, if will find some camps in Quatar or anywhere else we should press their government to bomb their camps to the ground or Russian forces under UN banner would do it. I guess we should go to UN with new kind of global anti-terrorist threaty. All countries should destroy terrorist camps on their territory, otherwise terrorism will never die. Those vahhabites would migrate from one country to another and still attack over and over again.

A lot of good ideas here. I would also think that you should also be a lot more cooperative with the United States and not so adverse to Israel. We are, after all, on the same side here in the war on terror. If we win, you win.

	06-09-2004 12:33									#270
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quote: Originally posted by Ned A lot of good ideas here. I would also think that you should also be a lot more cooperative with the United States and not so adverse to Israel. We are, after all, on the same side here in the war on terror. If we win, you win.

Ned i think it would be hard to argue that the antagonism between the US and Russia has been one sided. The US has snubbed and confronted Russia on more than one issue since Russia gained independance. Russia's lack of cooperation with the US seems to have been largely limited to it's opposition to the timing of the invasion of Iraq.