15-10-2004 07:08									#301
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Hokie. Catchya tommaraw.

	15-10-2004 08:02									#302
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Well, personally, I'm content that you two decided to come (kinda) clean.

We need to have our word as rock solid dependable. Even if we screw them over in other areas of the game, they have to trust us in negotiations, and depend on our honor.

We are of the elite officer class, after all.

	15-10-2004 08:20									#303
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Well said, my friend

(But would their denial of the opportunity be grounds for us to start plotting a vendetta?)

	15-10-2004 08:28									#304
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(no)

	15-10-2004 11:07									#305
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Moot point anyway, as we have their approval



So we are now treatied with Lal, and have borrowed 89 ec's from him, and have Ethical Calculus.

None of Morgan, Gaia, nor the Angels have Ethical Calculus

Regardless of my prior comments re holding back the "accept" on the 25 ec's for the Anmgels' commlink, i have put the 25 and the 50 together and pre-accepted them for the Gaians.

I don't think we can ask them to wait until 2144 for the proceeds from ind Auto, and I can't see a way to not pay upfront for the Angels commlink at the same time

G.

	15-10-2004 11:15									#306
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie (The beauty of it is ... we'll use Lal's money to pay the Gaians for the right to trade their Ind Auto tech to Lal in exchange for Ethical Calculus, which we'll then sell to Morgan for oodles of ec's (and if they thought Gene Splicing was expensive ...........) as well as to the Gaians and Angels, which means as well that the tech we first steal from Zak won't be Eth Calc but something else .........) G GLIE (We are the evilist faction

Pure genious - pure evil!

Let us rejoice in evil!

MUAHAHAHA!

	15-10-2004 17:33									#307
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Good to know they accepted. Now it's time to start thinking who we'll sell EthCalc to and at what price. The Gaians ought to be most interested in it. I wonder what their reaction would be - the Spartans have access to Demo but they don't

	15-10-2004 21:58									#308
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They're already asking (see Gaian embassy). And they want to know who we're dealing with...

	15-10-2004 22:15									#309
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Re their request to buy the Peacekeeper frequency, shall we honestly reply that we hope they understand we want to keep our advantage as in-between tech trader as long as possible, as reward for our early investment towards Doctrine: Flexibility?

	15-10-2004 22:29									#310
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I'd say yes (after some time it will become moot as everyone gets Flex and sends theit navies exploring - but it's only 25 ec's we are giving up anyway. No biggie

	15-10-2004 22:33									#311
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Don't forget; if they're cahooting with the Angels, they'll also get their commlink.

	15-10-2004 22:36									#312
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To clarify:

My "yes" was in response to Maniac's question.

I believe that we should not trade the commlinks of the AI for as long as possible.

Eventyally the human factions will be close to meeting both the Uni and the PK's when their navies get exploring (but by then, maybe, there'll ne no Zak or lal for them to meet (or they might be our slaves)

	15-10-2004 22:39									#313
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Ah. Okay then...

	15-10-2004 22:41									#314
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and as regards the Embassy query from Illuminatus - it looks like some sharp eyed Gaian spotted the deleted post (it was only up for a max of five minutes yesterday) when Kassi - in response to my "come clean" suggestion - said that we were getting offered Ethical Calc for Ind Auto

I'm comfortable telling them it was the PK's, and that we did acquire EthCalc, but we are reluctant to trade it as it is one of the essential building blocks in our executing our medium term strategy (going for the CDF, but we needn't tell them that)

And while we don't have Social Psych (that's prolly one that we'll filch from Zak next turn) we can perhaps offer them Secrets (which for them leads them to Green economics - a biggie) in lieu of paying them the 50 ec's

Junta thoughts?

	15-10-2004 22:49									#315
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Who are we going to deal with in a semi - long term relationship?
If it is the Gaians, then I would propose that we let them know we would consider helping them out. If it is Morgan, then I wouldn't help the Gaians, too much at all. Everything we help Gaia with, we are also indirectly strengthening the Angels with their current relationship.

Tell the Gaians to breack pact with the Angels if they want serious partnership with the Junta.

	15-10-2004 23:32									#316
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie And while we don't have Social Psych (that's prolly one that we'll filch from Zak next turn) we can perhaps offer them Secrets (which for them leads them to Green economics - a biggie) in lieu of paying them the 50 ec's Junta thoughts?

Do you think they wouldn't be willing to pay more than 50c for that tech?

	16-10-2004 00:08									#317
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Prolly, but I'm thinking we'll piss them off if we ask them for more ec's than we were prepared to give them for the right to get SoTHB (and Eth Calc) in the first place

Essentially for them it's an Ind Auto for Secrets trade, with us as the middlemen getting Secrets too, with (to us only) EthCalc thrown in as a bonus

We don't want to be seen as being too greedy, now, do we?

	16-10-2004 00:16									#318
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They spotted it while it was up for nary five minutes? Colour me suspicious. Could they possible be trying to bluff?

	16-10-2004 00:26									#319
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Unless they think that we got Gene Splicing from the AI after getting from them Soc Psych (a prereq for ethical calculus) and EthCalc itself (in turn, a prereq for GS)

	16-10-2004 01:06									#320
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OK - how about this as a reply (by Kassi) to Illuminatus' recent post in the Embassy:

quote: Posted by Illuminatus in the Embassy May we have the confirmation that is was Lal who asked the commlink?

Yes, it was Lal we were holding open yesterday pending the decison by your goodselves

quote: Also, would you part for his frequency for 25 credits?

While we will be pleased to do so eventually, at this time we are seeking the return on our investment to concentrate on Doctrine Flexibility at the expense of Industrial Automation. We are (presumably) behind yourselves, the Angels and Morgan in the building and deployment of crawlers, so the lucrative "middleman" role between yourselves - and the Angels - with the AI regarding tech trades is one that we would like to maintain at least for the next few turns

quote: One another thing - it is likely you got Ethical Calculus or Social Psych from Lal. If this is the case, we would be interested in negotiating a trade with you for data on any or both of these technologies

We are indeed in the possession of Ethical Calculus, but as it represents a key component of our strategy execution we are reluctant to trade it at this time.

We are not yet in possession of Social Psych (although our agents about to call again on the good professor might return next year with the blueprints !!), but we do possess Secrets of the Human Brain which we would be willing to trade to you for an equivalent technology

	16-10-2004 01:11									#321
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Looks OK to me.

	16-10-2004 01:22									#322
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back to the 50 ec's versus gifting a tech

I suppose we could ask for a tech (prolly biogenetics) in exchange for Secrets

That would have the same effect as buying Biogen for 50 ec's, which isn't a bad deal considering Zak is asking 100 ec's

(Or we could offer Social Psych if that indeed is what we steal from the Uni next turn) - and if we hold to our "Junta professed tenet" then we wouodn't trade a level 2 (Secrets) straight up for a level 1 (Biogenetics), so it would be a Soc Psych for Biogenetics trade.

Not that we need buiogen, but every early tech we eliminate from the tech choices we get offered makes it more likely that we'll see the 2 we want appear - Doc Init, for the MCC and Int Int, for the CDF (but we need Doc Loyalty, which Yang won't trade, so maybe after this round of podpopping a trannie needs to swing by and drop off a couple of probes - or maybe we can get it from the Gaians, if they've researched it or if they can steal it from Yang)

	16-10-2004 01:24									#323
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quote: Originally posted by Kassiopeia Looks OK to me.

I'd go ahead and post it then

	16-10-2004 01:34									#324
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Yeh, done.

	16-10-2004 01:45									#325
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Saw that

(And I'm ok with leaving out the "part of our strategy execution" bit - you're right, no need to tell them everything, is there?)

	16-10-2004 03:20									#326
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quote: Prolly, but I'm thinking we'll piss them off if we ask them for more ec's than we were prepared to give them for the right to get SoTHB (and Eth Calc) in the first place Essentially for them it's an Ind Auto for Secrets trade, with us as the middlemen getting Secrets too, with (to us only) EthCalc thrown in as a bonus We don't want to be seen as being too greedy, now, do we?

You have a point. As a true Spartan in heart and mind, I tend to think of diplomacy in terms of 'power politics' and 'law of the strongest' instead of 'building confidence' etcetera, being inexperienced in diplomacy not always keeping in mind that might piss off our future minions.

quote: Originally posted by Googlie back to the 50 ec's versus gifting a tech (prolly biogenetics)

AFAIK we could steal Biogenetics from Zakharov next year. So I guess the question is: what's worth most to us: 50 credits, or the ensurance that our probe team won't get caught? So I guess the decisive factor to answer this question would be: what's the chance our probe would be caught after stealing a tech?

	16-10-2004 03:32									#327
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In the sim I ran (didn't keep it, unfortunately) I infiltrated with the first probe - and he returned safely, and stoole with the second (was actually ethical calculus) and he too returned safely

And all Zak did was the "naughty naughty" speech

And he's friendlier now that we've executed a trade with him (plus we owe him money - I don't know if the game engine counts that as a factor whether an AI declares vendetta or not - the lost income, I mean)

So I think we're prolly safe to infiltrate and safe to steal, at least this first time (but maybe, since we are a few turns away from launching an invasion, we should infiltrate, then reassess. if, eg, he's 2 turns away from ecol Eng, then we should wait and steal it the turn he gets it, rather than be fobbed off with a level-1 tech the first chance we get

	17-10-2004 04:39									#328
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quote: Posted in the Embassy by Illuminatus Ethical Calculus is one of our priorities, and if you are willing to trade it, we can provide you with Doctrine Flexibility and Social Psych before this decade ends, allowing you to pursue other goals

So they are somewhat peeved to be denied Ethical Calculus, and are even prepared to offer us Social Psych and Doctrine Flexibility in exchange

So my "covert ops nose" tells me that they are currently researching Doc Flex and will have it before 2149

quote: Ethical Calculus is one of our priorities

If it is to enable them to build creches, run Dem and pop-boom, then I wouldn't object to trading it to them only for Doc Loyalty (which would mean their trying to extract it from Yang thru probe efforts - they can as they are in vendetta ..... we can't as it would lead to vendetta which we don't want right now. They can't yet have Doc Loyalty as we only traded Doc Mobility to them last turn - they'd be researching that and switched to Doc Flex, I bet)

But if we do ever get to the stage of trading it to them, it must be on the condition that they don't build the CDF

quote: May we remind you that it was Gaian Union which provided Industrial Automation, a very important technology, to Spartan Federation, without reluctance?

Of course - who'd be reluctant to get Gene Splicing in exchange for ind Auto

quote: We do not pressure you to do it immediately, but we would appreciate if you are willing to do it in near future

(If we don't go with the Doc Loyalty suggestion, then how about :

As soon as we have completed the Citizens' Defense Force, the embargo on trading Ethical Calculus will be removed

	17-10-2004 04:56									#329
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie So they are somewhat peeved to be denied Ethical Calculus, and are even prepared to offer us Social Psych and Doctrine Flexibility in exchange

Shall we (now or perhaps in a few years) offer them Doctrine: Flexibility in exchange for say 150 credits? Of course it would bring them more rapidly towards D:AP, but we could very well use those credits for our war effort or general economic progress.

	17-10-2004 05:08									#330
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I was tempted to say in the embassy -Military Affairs category, regarding the logjam with the Hive units, their mindworm and R-112, something along the lines of:

......... move east to the Hive coast and be picked up by one of our Cruiser Transports ..........

just to sew some more disinformation