16-10-2004 04:59									#151
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and these would be the ones we know that Yang has:

Progenitor Psych
Social Psych
PolySoft
Doc Loyalty
and
Optical Computers (in 3 years)

As Yang has the tech lead, it's unlikely that Zak has any others (as Zak now has 2 level 3 techs (GS and IA) and yang has none)

(And if Mead did see the earlier post, then your spin is that you removed the embargoed ones - no point in getting them needlessly salivating - and split off the ones that we are on the point of "acquiring" from other sources)

and maybe "tittilate" them with a comment along the lines of:

"there are also a couple of techs we have that are currently embargoed, so we removed them from the list as their presence there is pointless"

So if Mead did see the old list, he'll understand (and that, too, keeps Morgan paranoid about our possibly trading "advanced" techs with the Gaians and the Angels)

Last edited by Googlie on 17-10-2004 at 06:51

	17-10-2004 07:17									#152
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we should get something on the table for discussion with the morgan team. They'll be getting the turn in the next few hours and it'd be nice to give them some decisions to make

	17-10-2004 07:25									#153
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They've already opened talks on that - I'd like some analysis on the_arginine's three posts. Looks like they're interested in HEC.

	17-10-2004 07:26									#154
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Namely:

quote: The Spartans have earlier mentioned having a source of technology... We Morganites would like technology without paying all those expensive reserachers too. I would like to use probe teams on the University or PKs. Since your faction would be in the position to use probe teams on them, it would be nice to do a joint deal. In particular, Morgan would subsidize the creation of these probe teams in exchange for recieving the techs they bring in. Hmm, Sparta on Planned has a cost of 10 mins / row. If we used the cheap one move probe teams, they would require only 2 rows of mins. I am thinking of a 1 3/4 energy/min subsidy (the actual price would be determined by Morgan Negotiators). That extra energy would account for the fact that Sparta will have to divert their resources to actually deploy the probe teams. I should point out that as of now this is merely a suggestion.

And

quote: I know I'm not the official spokesman for Morgan Industries, but I have recieved aproval to officially ask for HE Chem. We are also interested in buying commlinks of the AIs (except for Yang's, but we didn't want that one to begin with) and the other humans. I should point out that while do not have the commlinks now, that could change at any time. It's easy money.

After all, I did put already OC and HEC on the table for them, plus Secrets and AppPhys.

	17-10-2004 07:30									#155
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Aha - I've flipped to these forums about ten times since lunch today and missed them

	17-10-2004 07:34									#156
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The probe subsidy idea is intriguing, but basically we'd be selling them technology for the price of a probe team. I'm not that fond of the idea, since setting up probe teams, as far as I know, is not a huge hurdle for us. Trading HEC is also tricky, since we don't even have it yet - and then, how about surrendering the commlinks? The going price is 25 ec, but the middleman role might end up way more profitable than 25 ec. And keeping them in their box for as long as possible will give us all the more weight as time goes by, since we're the only possibility for alliance and they're probably jonesing for a pact.

	17-10-2004 07:34									#157
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It's maybe time to sound them out fully on a pact 'till level-8 tech discoveries, shared leapfrog research, agreement as to SP's etc, followed by a "thereafter may the best team win"

(It's actually quite "heady" being in the position we're in right now. We are the suitor that everyone wants, due to our military, our navy and the techs we have accumulated from various sources)

	17-10-2004 07:37									#158
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I'm not sure about the pact proposition right now. That's a very longterm strategy so we'll have to have more opinions from the Junta for that (but I wasn't going to post it right now in any case). I liked the idea of bleeding them dry before they get too big - but was it at level eight that you thought would be a good time to start the bleeding?

I agree that pact negotiations would be nice to get underway though, considering our planned attack on the Uni and our need to have a cobelligerent.

	17-10-2004 07:52									#159
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Re the commlinks, I'd be inclined to give a variant of the speech we gave the Gaians

(When they get the turn, Morgan will find that we now have Ind Auto)

Something like:

We are reluctant to trade or sell commlinks for the time being. Our strategy called for technology researches and unit builds that left us seriously behind the other 3 human-controlled factions as regards deployment of crawlers, and we believe that we need some time to enjoy the rewards of the "middleman" role that our strategy provides.

Following an initiative by the "Mercantilist" wing of our faction, the Junta is currently in the process of evaluating the potential synergy between our two factions. Among the "blue sky" ideas being mooted is the idea of a deep Pact, say for the duration of joint exploration through level-9 technologies (Matter Compression, Industrial Nanorobotics, Sentient Resonance and The Will to Power) following which we would be, by far, the two strongest factions on Planet ..... and after that, may the better team win.

Such a long-term strategy would bind our two factions almost inextricably (at least until the parting of the ways around the 2200 or so year), so absolute openess and trust on both sides would need to be a given.

Can I report back to the Junta on how Morgan might react to this initiative if it moves from the "blue sky" status to the "trial balloon" status?

	17-10-2004 07:58									#160
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And I think we may need something like:

Regarding technology trading, the Junta has recently adopted a policy that, unless we are pacted with a faction, we will not trade military technologies.

If our two factions saw fit to enter into a pact relationship, then HEC, of course, would be made available

	18-10-2004 07:49									#161
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie We couild always wait till next turn, then add all Zak's techs (and Yang's) to the list Techs-R-us, get what you need from your friendly Spartan gunrunner

hey. That's funny!

	18-10-2004 07:55									#162
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quote: Originally posted by Kassiopeia .. Trading HEC is also tricky, since we don't even have it yet ...

Hey Guys...,

HEC is one of the potentially most devestating technologies from the early to late game.

Why are we even contemplating trading it (once we get it), unless it's for something that will also be as potentially most devestating ?

	18-10-2004 08:02									#163
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie And I think we may need something like: Regarding technology trading, the Junta has recently adopted a policy that, unless we are pacted with a faction, we will not trade military technologies. If our two factions saw fit to enter into a pact relationship, then HEC, of course, would be made available

Okay. I just came across this part.
Belay my previous post...

(Although, I'm not going to be easily convinced to trade HEC away too easily...)

	19-10-2004 05:16									#164
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Morgan is just approaching the 30 hour mark of their allotted 48 hours

Are we just going to let them twist in the wind, or actually reply to their Embassy comments and offer them anything in trade?

GGLIE

	19-10-2004 05:21									#165
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Yeah, we're going to reply, but I'm still a bit unsure of what we'll say to people. Are there problems with the drafts I've posted in the threads etc. that are going to be sent to the Gaians and the Angels? I feel like i'm missing some sort of confirmation here, I'm getting careful with thist stuff with the messes we've had before. ( /me goes back to sleep for a few more hours) And what are we saying to the Morganites? Etc.

	19-10-2004 05:50									#166
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Well, with Morgan, I feel we owe them a reply to their questions:

>> on HEC, (tell them we would only trade military techs to pactmates)

quote: Posted elsewhere by Googlie Regarding technology trading, the Junta has recently adopted a policy that, unless we are pacted with a faction, we will not trade military technologies

>> on the supported probes (a non-starter, as far as I'm concerned, unless we're in bed with them)

>> on their getting the commlinks (elsewhere I've penned the "middleman" speech - I'd use that in reply)

quote: Posted elsewhere by Googlie We are reluctant to trade or sell commlinks for the time being. Our strategy called for technology researches and unit builds that left us seriously behind the other 3 human-controlled factions as regards deployment of crawlers, and we believe that we need some time to enjoy the rewards of the "middleman" role that our strategy provides.

As regards the Ecol Eng debate, maybe we just bite the bullet and go it alone with that (ie move the sliders, run a -1 deficit for 7 years, and get it in 2149) Then we're nor playing leapfrog, nor giving away Ethical Calculus for "free" to get our hands on Env Econ goodness knows when

(But my judgment is colored by my CMN role in the last game where PEACE got burned for trying to hog techs too long, and in fact pissed people off by being too demanding - I'd hate for us to get in that position where we've oodles of level 2 and 3 techs but won't trade them and we see the world pass us by on trades (right Maniac?)

And as regards Ethical Calculus, maybe we just tell all 3 of the others we'll send it their way for the 10 year x 25 ec's licence payment after which it's theirs to do with as they please

(75 ec's per turn would go a long way to offsetting that -1 in our proposed budget!!!)

EDIT: Or are we being too greedy - after all, I doubt if the Gaians could generate 25 per turn (we certainly couldn't)

Maybe it's 10 per turn - gives us 300 overall - and remember, that's a tech we picked up for 50 ec's, and got Secrets thrown to us into the bargain

	19-10-2004 06:05									#167
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie (But my judgment is colored by my CMN role in the last game where PEACE got burned for trying to hog techs too long, and in fact pissed people off by being too demanding - I'd hate for us to get in that position where we've oodles of level 2 and 3 techs but won't trade them and we see the world pass us by on trades (right Maniac?)

That's been on mind as well. Do you feel we should sell everyone all the techs we've got, just so that we could get at least something out of it, instead of running the risk to get nothing?

But on the other side, since this isn't a co-op game, one could argue that our rivals and us both getting nothing, is better than our rivals getting everything, and we only a little in return. Difficult question...

	19-10-2004 06:06									#168
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie [i]EDIT: Or are we being too greedy - after all, I doubt if the Gaians could generate 25 per turn (we certainly couldn't)

I'd consider 150c a decent price if we could get it. Still too high, or does that sound reasonable? Haven't got that many experience with PBEM diplomacy, so I can't really tell.

	19-10-2004 06:30									#169
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac I'd consider 150c a decent price if we could get it. Still too high, or does that sound reasonable? Haven't got that many experience with PBEM diplomacy, so I can't really tell.

I think it'd depend when the particilar faction thought they could get it on their own

It's only prereq is Social Psych, which they all have, so it's just a detour

(But I'm willing to bet that the Angels right now have started on HEC and the Gaians on Doc Flex, so it'd be at least 15 or 16 years before either got that tech, then started on - and got - EthCalc)

And with Morgan - who knows? They mightr even as we write be researching EthCalc. They aren't (yet) interested in Gene Splicing, so Ecol Eng isn't on their radar ......... they haven't yet got Applied Physics, so neither Nonlinear Math nor HEC are on their path ........... they've just completed Flex a couple of turns ago, one of the 2 prereqs for Doc Initiative, whose other prereq is Industrial Automation !!! .......... or they might be heading down the 2 economics path (Adaptive and Planetary)

	19-10-2004 06:53									#170
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac That's been on mind as well. Do you feel we should sell everyone all the techs we've got, just so that we could get at least something out of it, instead of running the risk to get nothing? But on the other side, since this isn't a co-op game, one could argue that our rivals and us both getting nothing, is better than our rivals getting everything, and we only a little in return. Difficult question...

Tough call. That's a tough call indeed...


As things stand now (which is effectively = everything up in the air), an isolationist approach, while keeping the door open to an alliance with either Gaia or Morgan.

Meaning: Hold onto what we got, unless we can deal with a pactmate to further our goals.

	20-10-2004 06:38									#171
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I've posted the SCC Hunter's Captains Log for 2143 in the Embassy

	20-10-2004 17:51									#172
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Hmm - how about my putting out unofficial feelers to the Morganites re their thoughts on a Pact with deep significance

(As leader of the Pro-Morgan wing of the Junta)

Maybe Morgan doesn't want to climb into bed with the first of the 3 women he meets. (maybe he prefers Zak, or Yang or Lal!!) - especially as he hasn't seen what the other 2 could offer.

And it might require a leap of faith on their part to trust us if I said "We are by far the most technologically advanced Human team, and have the biggest population and army of the human teams", but without actually specifying to which tech level we might Pact, sound them out in principle to see if there might be interest on their side.

Their first contact comment re the supposedly cosy relationship between the Angels and the Gaians suggests that they will at the very least give weighty consideration to any "feeler" I could put out.

(In fact, maybe we should try something similar to all 3 factions, from a different "champion's" point of view. - and maybe Maniac, as you've already had some off-the-record talks with GM, perhaps Zeiter floats the trial balloon with the Gaians and you do so with the Angels?)

Last edited by Googlie on 20-10-2004 at 18:27

	21-10-2004 05:19									#173
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I endorse the idea of throwing "feelers" by different people to all three factions.

I took the liberty of bringing up the idea in the Morganite embassy, but I said that LtCol Googlie would elaborate on the issue. Please do.

quote: Note, though, unless we are pacted to the faction wanting to trade. The other Lieutenant Colonel of the Junta, Googlie, will elaborate on this, but I am willing to state that the Junta has been seriously considering the possibility of allying itself with Morgan Industries, recognizing the way our two factions would complement each other. I recommend your faction starts a discourse on this possibility of extended co-operation as well. More to the matter of the current topic, would you be interested in Ethical Calculus? We are willing to part ways with it for 10 years of 15 credits per year. You must agree to not build the Citizen's Defence force, however, and you must not trade the technology to a third party (or gift a unit with an ability allowed by the traded tech to a third party) for 15 mission years. For the Junta and the Federation,

	21-10-2004 06:48									#174
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I've e-mailed the following Private message to CEO Chaunk:

quote: Googlie e-mail to CEO Chaunk of Morgan Corporation CONFIDENTIAL MEMORANDUM To: Mr. Chaunk, CEO - Morgan Corporation (the "Corporation") From: Lieutenant-Colonel Googlie, Joint Chair of the Junta, The Spartan Federation (the "Federation") Subject: Testing the conditions for a "Deep Pact" between our factions Date: Mission Year- 2143 ************************************************* This is a personal initiative and does not reflect the official position of the Federation By way of background, I lead a "wing" of the Junta informally known as "the pro-Morgan wing". I have recently been arguing in Junta sessions that we consider establishing much closer relations between our two factions, creating, if you will, on Chiron, a "Military-Industrial" complex intertwining of our officers and your economists and scientists. By focussing our efforts on certain key technologies such as Doctrine Flexibility and Planetary Networks - to the exclusion of more traditional research paths that lead to Industrial Automation - we have succeeded in exploring much of Chiron, have infiltrated several factions, and have met - and signed Treaties with - all 6 other factions that survived Planetfall. And while our military build-up has been proceeding as planned, our covert operations and diplomatic efforts have yielded impressive results. (As an example, we now possess the useful technologies of Ethical Calculus, Gene Splicng and Ecological Engineering, to name but 3. I was instrumental in persuading the Junta to offer the Corporation the opportunity of licensing the Ethical Calculus technology) But clearly, as a faction that likes its "expensive toys", we cannot over the long haul hope to compete economically and scientifically with a faction such as the Corporation, and this leads me to approach you with the following suggestion for consideration by your Board: Let us pact together, for a period to that poiint in time where we - together - discover the Mind Machine Interface technology. At that juncture we then have the option of going our separate ways, or perhaps extending our co-operation to the attainment of some future milestone technology, such as Super Tensile Solids, again agreeing to part company at that point. While it is inevitable that upon that parting we will compete for the victory of our own Philosophies, in suggesting this latter pact duration we are pretty much conceding that we are unlikely to want to wage vendetta against you, as strong as you will be by that point in time. We would see this pact as being non-exclusive (in that we realize that to maximize your economic potential you will want to pact with all 6 factions, if possible) but will be all-inclusive. If we have researched or probed a tech that you lack, you need only ask and it will be sent forthwith, and vice versa. Our two factions will run an integrated economy where we will provide navy and airforce services, provide exploration information and, to the extent that our meager research efforts allow, leapfrog with you in researching technologies on both our critical paths. We would be integrated to the extent that we will agree in advance which Special Projects we will each pursue (and I would broadly see the Federation concentrating on those that provided free base facilities - to offset our lack of energy production and ease the economic burden we would be to the Corporation - and the Corporation focussing on those that provided research, economic and population boosts) Thus the role of the Corporation would be as a research and economic engine, while that of the Federation would be defense, threat suppression and global projection of power. The Corporation would likely grow through internal expansion, the Federation through external acquisition. And when that time comes where we part ways and endeavour to impose our unique ideology on Chiron, the Corporation will likely have the option of dominating economically, or scientifically (by transcendence), while the Federation's choices will likely be diplomatically (by persuading a 3/4 majority of Chiron's citizens that Spartan rule is beneficial, or militarily - by forcing them to accept that rule) It should promise to be an interesting time in Chiron politics. So, my dear CEO. I have given you much food for thought. Your answer needn't be this year, as the year end is almost upon us, but I would appreciate your intitial reaction which, if favourable, will embolden me to continue to vigorously prosecute a Morgan alliance within the Junta discussions Sincerely, Lt. Col Googlie

Let's see what this will dredge up

	21-10-2004 09:46									#175
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Hasn't Chaunk gone missing in the last couple of weeks or so?
Thought I saw something about that at CGN somewhere... (?)


Edit: Chaunk hasn't been at CGN since May. My computer can't load the players list here right now, so I can't verify his activity here.

Last edited by KrysiasKrusader on 21-10-2004 at 09:55

	21-10-2004 10:06									#176
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Hmm - good point

His last post data says August 8th.

I'll forward it to Impaler then (I want to avoid Mead as he is their accredited diplo)

	21-10-2004 10:10									#177
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LOL -I don't have Imp's email - I'll post it in the embassy

	21-10-2004 10:59									#178
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So then; Chaunk split with the payroll, eh?

Too bad. He's a really funny guy to deal with.

	21-10-2004 11:05									#179
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie LOL -I don't have Imp's email - I'll post it in the embassy

Don't seem to be able to (maybe too long)

I've e-mailed it to jtsisyoda with the comment:

I sent the attached to Chaunk by e-mail (recognizing his Apolyton profile statement "CEO of Morgan Industries, ACDG3"

I see that he hasn't posted publicly since August 4th, so let's roleplay that his Exec Assistant found it and has passed it to you.

	21-10-2004 18:55									#180
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see here for further thoughts