18-02-2005 02:10									#241
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Is the ending that bad?

	18-02-2005 02:50									#242
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The ending is a bit of a let down, for sure. But it's not "awful." There's just a lot of seemingly carefully-planned build up but sloppy resolution with lots of plot threads left dangling.

I'm playing through again as darkside, and man do I kick ass. I've achieved darkside mastery (which is +50 FP) and am now a Sith Lord. I converted Atton to be a dark jedi, Hanharr is my ***** and I'm working my mojo on the Handmaiden. HK adores me, too. I'm still having a tough time cracking GOTO and getting all of his story, however.

I'm on Dantooine right now and haven't yet decided on how I will let the mercenary/settler conflict pan out. We shall see...

	18-02-2005 02:50									#243
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have you finished it? I don't want to spoil it, not even in spoiler tags.

Actually I couldn't explain it even if I tried. . It's tought to explain. It all happens so fast. The final boss does explain a few things, but doesn't explain others.

It's very rushed. You can notice a difference. The first 7/8 of the game is very detailed, but the last part isn't. It seems like it was put toegether quickly.

It's obvious they ran out of time and had to get the game out by christmas.

it's still worth playing. A game such as this it's not the destination, but the journey that matters. So hopefully you like the gameplay.

	18-02-2005 03:08									#244
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I finished it last night. The ending was kinda awesome in its own way. I felt like an angry avenging goddess of death by the time I got to Malachor V. Wow I was kicking butt for goodness.

I'm really impressed by what the Obsidian team can make. The characters are believable, the plot have momentum, the locations and challenges are varied. My one small problem is that 3 classes are basically worthless, and they were the ones with the most potential (Consular, Jedi Master, Sith Lord) due to the way that even a Guardian/Weaponmaster with moderate WIS can kick adequate butt with Force Powers, while also having the option of kicking massive butt in melee.

Oh, and why is the Light Side power Force Wave a better attack power than Lightning Storm? That's just broken. The Dark Side should have the best direct attack options. I think doing 40-50 damage and throwing everyone back and stunning them for 12 seconds is WAY better than doing 70-80 damage or so. That stun period means you have time to kill one in melee before Force Pushing again, and you never have to worry at all about defence, as your enemies can't get close to you (hah blasters! DEFLECTION ,LOSERS)

-Jam

	18-02-2005 04:03									#245
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Imagine KotOReque plots and characters with the unrestricted version of the engine.

	18-02-2005 04:40									#246
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:drool:

I can imagine it better than you Go learn the engine and then you will :überdrool:

-jam

	18-02-2005 23:03									#247
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Don't need to.

	19-02-2005 00:36									#248
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Jamski--

I don't think Force wave is a lightside power, it's a universal one. I've been using it as darkside to great effect. Darkside already has some kick-arse powers, so making the lightning overpowering wouldn't do much.

	19-02-2005 00:50									#249
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Crap, Boris is right.

-Jam

	19-02-2005 01:46									#250
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yep it's universal. I took it as a dark sider, but I still don't feel right using it .

I usually use insanity and force storm.

Does anyone use plague? As soon as I saw that it cannot be saved against (DC 100) I took it. Though sometimes it doesn't seem to work despite having a DC of 100. I used it with Carth during the fight against those 2 bounty hunters in the bar. Sometimes it wouldn't work. Even as a jedi, that was a hard fight. I have no choice but to go in the back of the bar, squeeze behind a table and fight one at a time.

I like to use plague against tough enemies that won't go down in one hit. I"m not sure how much of a difference it makes. I figured if it lowered their attributes, it would make it harder for them to hit me. I still got hit alot though.

	19-02-2005 02:49									#251
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You had trouble with Atton (not Carth, but I understand why you confused the two ) fighting the bounty hunters? I never did. Both times, he made mincemeat out of them. Just put him in the best armor and equip him with a vibroblade. Hack hack hack.

I don't use plague. My favorite is to use Kill followed by Force Wave, so you levitate an enemy while choking him, and then fling him away.

My general rule with fighting is to hit enemies with force wave a few times to weaken/stun them, and then run in with Master Flurry while using Knight Speed. That gives 4 attacks per round, which takes out most baddies with one flourish. I annihlated Vrook very quickly with the Flurry/Speed combo.

	19-02-2005 03:00									#252
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That fight is TEH EASY.

Run behind the bar, stand there and shoot them. The AI pathfinding makes them run up to the bar and stop there waving their swords about. Easiness.

-Jam

	19-02-2005 05:31									#253
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I think that's considered abusing the game mechanics.

	19-02-2005 06:27									#254
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Look, in every movie, in every game, the hero ducks behind the bar if there is a "fight in a bar scene" FACT.

-Jam

	19-02-2005 06:34									#255
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That's true. But also in every such scene, there's a moment when the hero gets to slide someone down the bar head-first. We should get to do that, too!

	19-02-2005 06:57									#256
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski Look, in every movie, in every game, the hero ducks behind the bar if there is a "fight in a bar scene" FACT. -Jam

But in the movies, the enemies can actually jump over the bar.

	19-02-2005 13:34									#257
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quote: Originally posted by Lord Nuclear I think that's considered abusing the game mechanics.

Yeah, but when it is for a stupid out of the blue fight, it's worth it . Better than getting killed a few more times (after 3 times, I decided to make a run for cover).

	19-02-2005 13:57									#258
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I think the old woman is evil. She reminds me of Voldemort or something.

	19-02-2005 14:42									#259
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski That fight is TEH EASY. Run behind the bar, stand there and shoot them. The AI pathfinding makes them run up to the bar and stop there waving their swords about. Easiness. -Jam

yeah talk about abuse.

What I did, was run to the back of the bar by one of the tables. You squeeze in behind a guy sitting down in a chair, and fight right behind his head. Kind of funny watching the guy just sit there doing nothing, while there's an intense battle with blades flying everywhere right behind his head. This way I only have to fight one at a time. Much easier to deal with.

	19-02-2005 15:32									#260
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quote: Originally posted by Lord Nuclear I think that's considered abusing the game mechanics.

That's Jam's favourite game.

	19-02-2005 15:50									#261
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Wow, just finished it, dark side...I think. Can anyone explain what just happened?

spoiler(highlight to read): Just a final shot of the planet, and that's it? I mean....no, right? I'm beginning to think that it's the same ending to matter what I am, please say it isn't so!!

spoiler(highlight to read): And what about everyone else? Treya's going on about their "future" while I'm like, "yeah lady, except for the fact that the friggin' ship just seems to have fallen into an abysm about two cutscenes back, good point!"

The ability to warp your party members into your way of thinking kicked ass. However I didn't think the whole "influence" thing was explained very well. Also a lot of things just don't make sense. For example, I turned Handmaiden into a sexy ice queen Dark Jedi Guardian, but I couldn't take her on quests because I'd always lose influence: She would still get upset when I killed innocents. And so on. The Darth-Maul dude looks like such a badass, and they go and decide to make him a total coward.

	19-02-2005 23:41									#262
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quote: Originally posted by Jaguar I think the old woman is evil. She reminds me of Voldemort or something.

Comparing a Jedi to a fantasy character

	20-02-2005 02:40									#263
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quote: Originally posted by Jagdtiger Wow, just finished it, dark side...I think. Can anyone explain what just happened? spoiler(highlight to read): Just a final shot of the planet, and that's it? I mean....no, right? I'm beginning to think that it's the same ending to matter what I am, please say it isn't so!! spoiler(highlight to read): And what about everyone else? Treya's going on about their "future" while I'm like, "yeah lady, except for the fact that the friggin' ship just seems to have fallen into an abysm about two cutscenes back, good point!" The ability to warp your party members into your way of thinking kicked ass. However I didn't think the whole "influence" thing was explained very well. Also a lot of things just don't make sense. For example, I turned Handmaiden into a sexy ice queen Dark Jedi Guardian, but I couldn't take her on quests because I'd always lose influence: She would still get upset when I killed innocents. And so on. The Darth-Maul dude looks like such a badass, and they go and decide to make him a total coward.

spoiler(highlight to read): if you have Kreia in your party then you GAIN influence with the other member from senseless violence

	20-02-2005 15:21									#264
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finished the game as the dark side. Much, much easier than my light side character. Let's just say force crush (I think that's the name) kicks all ass. I didn't need anything besides that. Sure Traya made all its saves, but it still knocks them back and on the ground unable to do anything, and knocks a good chunk of life off.

I had no problem beating Traya on difficult level this time. Caster characters are just much stronger than melee ones it seems (I hardly ever get hit). That wisdom really seems to help (I put all my points into wisdom).

It's a pretty good game. I think I like it a little better now. Though I think the first one still holds a slight edge. It's tough to say.

I'll probably put it down for a couple of months, and may be come back to it. I've played a guardian/weapon master, and a consular/sith lord. so the next obvious choice is sentinal.

	20-02-2005 21:17									#265
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I asked this in another thread, but no one answered me.


I never completely finished KOTOR, will that make KOTOR2 less enjoyable - are there some spoilers I should know before playing it? (go ahead and tell me, as long as they only relate to the first) or is there alot of more subtle things that I'll be missing out on?

	20-02-2005 22:10									#266
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Can't answer on the plot yet, though from reviews it looks better but not essential to have finished the first.

More fundamentally why didn't you finish? The sequel by all accounts is very similar, which is great if you liked the game, but not if you didn't.

	21-02-2005 01:27									#267
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if you didn't like the first game, you probably won't like the second .

It helps to have finished the first, or at least know about the backstory. It can explain why Carth is or is not there in KOTOR2. And it really helps to figure out what really happened to Revan if you haven't gotten that far in KOTOR1.

The only reason KOTOR2 is not considered as good as KOTOR1 is because the ending feels rushed. It looks like they had to meet some christmas deadline, and it looked like they would have a great ending with all your NPC's similar to Planescape:Torment. But instead all your NPC's are "dismissed" and you do the final sequences alone. And there's a movie at the end which is really short and doesn't explain what happened to the robots (not getting too specific- I won't spoil it). or what happened to the ship.

But it is better in some ways. My latest game I had an intelligence of 16. So I had many skill points. You can break down equipment and build new equipment. I didn't realize this at first. There some great scopes and such for blaster rifles and pistols. Finally making them as powerful as they should be. They did higher end damage than my light saber.

The influence system is novel. Though it's kind of flawed in some ways. Even if you convert a party member to the dark side, doing evil acts may still create negative influence. and you really have to get good influence to understand all the plot points.

	21-02-2005 01:33									#268
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I've been playing too much KOTOR2 and SMAC recently.

Last night I dreamt I was playing a game that was a combination of both of these games. Which I think is a great idea. I'm going to call up Brian Reynolds and Chris Avellone. Sure Brian isn't doing those types of games anymore, but I'm sure I can convince him.

They could create the ultimate sci-fi strategy rpg game. Wouldn't that be cool?

	21-02-2005 01:34									#269
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What happens if you Carth isn't there? Does anyone replace him?

	21-02-2005 01:36									#270
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quote: Originally posted by Lord Nuclear What happens if you Carth isn't there? Does anyone replace him?

yeah some generic admiral replaces him. The lines are a little different.

spoiler(highlight to read): there's not interaction with Bastila for instance

but they get the same message across.