08-02-2005 18:39									#271
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@Case: Thanks for the concern, but I've covered the essential units with a few frills and have space to kill.

@KASHANKA: I knew three of them were at Pearl, just couldn't remember (or find a good reference as to) which. Thanks!

	08-02-2005 18:43									#272
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Actually all 6 major Jap carriers were at Pearl.

	08-02-2005 18:59									#273
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I think I'll include three generic carriers (I do have that unit, as I don't have enough slots to make every carrier in the theater unique) to cover the other three; only the listed ones are unique units.

	09-02-2005 01:41									#274
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Wait... now I'm lost on how many slots you have.

If I understand correctly you have 3 slots for Japanese Carriers?
Than in my advice use one for the Akagi/Kaga, the second one for Soryu class and the 3rd for the Shokaku class.

That way you will have 3 major classes with which the Japanese started the war, plus it will be rather easy to simulate later classes (Taiho with Shokaku and Katsuragi with Soryu).
Just my 2 cents.

	09-02-2005 08:22									#275
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Well, actually, what I was using was a bit different, though your system may be worth consideration too. You see, I had a 'generic' carrier, which both the US and Japanese could build an unlimited number of. Then each of the above listed carriers was to be a unique unit (that is, the actual ship of that name, not the class), either starting on the map or brought in by event, that can't be built. However, the class system may work a lot better. I'd have to retool my units.bmp and rules.txt. Any advice, anyone?

	10-02-2005 20:34									#276
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Okay, here it is, the current units file I'm using (a bit of a distortion converting to .gif format, but my original's pristine). Please, tell me what you think.

Attachment: units4.gif
This has been downloaded 129 time(s).

	10-02-2005 22:15									#277
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I'm not an expert but... I like them!!!
Your scenario promises more and more, indeed...

	11-02-2005 00:02									#278
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Nice set of units. The differences in the construction of US and Japanese carriers are really well done.

I would suggest changing the Wildcat, Hellcat and Dauntless? paint schemes from pre-war to post Pearl Harbor. The extensive red paint disappeared very quickly to reduce detectability and lessen the chance of misidentifying US aircraft as Japanese. Do remove the what appear to be large red streamlined spinners in front of these aircrafts' radial engines. The B-24 and B-29 have the correct wartime markings. BTW, I can't figure out what national markings are on the B-25B, they don't look American.

	11-02-2005 00:58									#279
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Great looking units.

Just my humble opinion:

I think there are too many carriers (9).

There should be more ships for the USA: DDs, CAs, SSs as well as subs for Japan...

And I don't see any transports...

	11-02-2005 13:52									#280
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@AGRICOLA: Thanks for the comment! I suppose I could attempt to adjust those three units markings (though I'm not that good at graphic adjustments). As for the B-25B, I too thought those markings looked similar to Soviet markings, but the one who gave it too me (I'd have to check who) said it was American.

@Leonidas: Thanks as well! Their are a set of generic ships in the middle of the file (with anchor shields), including a transport, which fill most naval needs; the ones at the bottom are for specialty use.

@Gaugliaudo: Thanks in general!

	11-02-2005 20:41									#281
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quote: Originally posted by Patine @Leonidas: Thanks as well! Their are a set of generic ships in the middle of the file (with anchor shields), including a transport, which fill most naval needs; the ones at the bottom are for specialty use.

I was wondering what those ships (with the anchor) were for - heheh

Even though they look great, I'm still wondering if there are too many carriers.

All the USA and Japan need are two carriers each (a light and heavy one).

That would free up some unit slots that could be used for more infantry units.

There is a transport ship, but there is still no landing barge...

USA could have a flamethrower, MG, bazooka, etc...

Japan could have a bit more variety with the Japanese soldiers: instead of all rifles, maybe have a MG, a mortar unit, a unit with sword and pistol, etc.

Great job so far

	11-02-2005 21:03									#282
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off the kaga, replace with landing barge, the only difference between the akagi and kaga is the the positioning of the superstructure, i am still looking for a good b-24 unit, one that is comparable with the other air units,

	11-02-2005 21:22									#283
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Damnit Patine, send me a copy of the units.bmp now!

	11-02-2005 21:53									#284
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I could see merit in trimming the list of carriers for more units. Does anyone have the suggested unit graphics (US flamethrower, MG, bazooka, Japanese MG, mortar, sword and pistol, and landing barge).

@typhoon: Sure, here's the units.bmp, but please tell me what you're going to do to the poor thing as soon as you get it.

Attachment: units.zip
This has been downloaded 8 time(s).

	11-02-2005 22:44									#285
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quote: Originally posted by Patine I could see merit in trimming the list of carriers for more units. Does anyone have the suggested unit graphics (US flamethrower, MG, bazooka, Japanese MG, mortar, sword and pistol, and landing barge).

This might be a good time for some unit artists to do a good set of these units for Japan and the US.

I think Broken_Erika already did a US flamethrower infantry unit in the WW2 unit thread above.

	12-02-2005 09:15									#286
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quote: Originally posted by Patine I could see merit in trimming the list of carriers for more units. Does anyone have the suggested unit graphics (US flamethrower, MG, bazooka, Japanese MG, mortar, sword and pistol, and landing barge).

I'd strongly sugest that you include a few more transport types. Aside from the Japanese landing barges, the US player should have an LST unit. These versitle transports were absolutely critical.

I wouldn't bother with units representing tactical weapons such as flamethrowers, machine guns, etc - these were integral to all infantry units from the start of the war until the end, and have no place in a scenario modeling the war at the strategic level.

I'd also argue that there are way too many Japanese tank units. I'd halve the number to just 2 (one representing the early war medium tanks and one for a late war medium tank).

BTW, which book(s) did you end up reading for background?

	12-02-2005 09:29									#287
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I ultimately agree with you on heavy infantry weapons; at the scope of play in this scen, they're not relavent as separate functions. I also do plan to add landing craft to the mix (any suggestions on how to differentiate them from standard transports?). I don't know about armor; as the scen focuses on Japan, beefing up their options in several areas can be advantageous. And, on your question of books, I found a twelve-volume set in my local library called the 'Marshal Cavendish Encyclopedia of World War II,' which has full color pictures and lots of tactical maps; I also read a book on the Battle of Iwo Jima and one on the Battle of Midway, giving in depth information on amphibious and naval warfare in the theatre (there was also a lot of Internet research).

	12-02-2005 10:18									#288
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Mabe give the landing craft faster with a capacity around 4 and the transport 1 to 3 slower with a much higher capacity,

	12-02-2005 19:01									#289
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When you're done tweaking the bloody thing, send me the updated units.bmp

And here is a suggestion for the tanks: give four types each to the Allied (US) and to the Japanese. One light, two medium, one heavy:

Allied:

Light ->M3 Stuart

Medium ->M4 Sherman/
Mathilda

Heavy -> M26 Pershing


Japanese:

Light ->Type 95 Ha-Go

Medium -> Type 97 Chi-Ha/Shinhoto Chi-Ha

Heavy -> Type 4 Chi-To

And of course the Russians get the T-34.

	12-02-2005 19:14									#290
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Sounds like an idea worth considering. Any idea where I could find an M26 Pershing and a Shinhoto Chi-Ha, as well as a good landing barge and LST?

	12-02-2005 19:20									#291
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From left to right: Chi-Ha, Shinhoto Chi-Ha, M26 Pershing

By fairline and catfish

Attachment: tanks for patine.png
This has been downloaded 77 time(s).

	12-02-2005 19:52									#292
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Thanks a lot, typhoon!

	12-02-2005 20:07									#293
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here is nemo's lvt-2 that i revamped,

	12-02-2005 20:08									#294
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i need more coffee

the troops in the vehicle are taken from steph's m2a1 half track,

Attachment: lvt-2.gif
This has been downloaded 72 time(s).

Last edited by Broken_Erika on 12-02-2005 at 20:30

	12-02-2005 20:22									#295
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Thanks a lot, Erika!

	12-02-2005 20:50									#296
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@Patine

Here are some Japanese infantry you could use, updated to fully exploit the TOT palette.

And I expect to see the units.bmp when you're done with it.

Attachment: typhoon ww2japaneseinfantry.png
This has been downloaded 67 time(s).

	12-02-2005 20:56									#297
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Well, I think the whole issue about having flamethrowers, MGs, etc is about having variety in a scenario. It would look pretty boring having just one standard infantry unit for all nations in the game.

As to the strategic nature of the scenario:

If that is the case, then why have single and individual carriers? or battleships? or destroyers?

If the scenario was truly "strategic" then we would have naval Task Forces and carrier battlegroups, and not individual ships...

If the scenario is strategic then why have a single unit for the "Atomic B29" or Yamato?

The US flamethrowers could be the bunker-busters on Japanese held islands...

No Civ2 scenario is truly strategic or tactical - it's often a little bit of both...

I think new and different units is all about having variety in a scenario, and giving the player more choices and fun...

Cheers!

Last edited by Leonidas on 12-02-2005 at 21:07

	12-02-2005 21:35									#298
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it's about fun, otherwise we wouldn't be here, every scenario needs its own touch, my ww1 scenario that is developing at a crippled snails pace has it's own touch, even though it is too bug-ridden to even launch,

	12-02-2005 22:25									#299
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That's a good point. However, currently, even in the ToT format, I'm hurting for unit space, even with the removal of about 4 carrier slots. I'm only having two unique carrier classes for each of the US and Japan (as well as the generic one), then two more tanks and two landing craft. Any ideas what else could go?

	13-02-2005 04:04									#300
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quote: Originally posted by Patine That's a good point. However, currently, even in the ToT format, I'm hurting for unit space, even with the removal of about 4 carrier slots. I'm only having two unique carrier classes for each of the US and Japan (as well as the generic one), then two more tanks and two landing craft. Any ideas what else could go?

I know how you feel about wanting to place every unit you can into a scenario (this can be done with batch files - but let's not go there - heheh).

And all my suggestions are just that - suggestions. Don't be worried if you can't make too many changes. This is your scenario - so you have the units you want in it.

One suggestion is to download some of the WWII Pacific scenarios from the Fanatics site and look at what units were used in those scenarios. This might spark a few ideas.

My suggestions for some areas that could be trimmed:

As I understand it, the player will be playing the Japanese while the AI will play the USA. If that is the case give the USA only ONE carrier (any more are wasted on the AI).

Also, use only ONE generic landing craft for both the USA and Japan.

The Japanese have 9 aircraft. Could this be reduced?

The real workhorses for the Japanese were: the Nell, Betty, Val, and Zero. Maybe add a couple more. This would free up some unit slots.

The Japanese have 4 tanks - instead maybe have 3 (a light, medium and heavy).

Also, the Japanese have several infantry with rifles - maybe one of these could be a MG unit (this would be defensive in nature).

The USA could get an infanry and/or tank flamethrower unit (high attack, low defense that ignores city walls, and can attack bunkers, etc)...

BTW, I have a great "Banzai" sound for one of the Japanese infantry units if you want to use it