 |
| |
|
| |
|
|
AGRICOLA
|
|
Canadian bush & Florida
Feb 2003
time: 00:16
|
|
It looks like you have maxed out the number of units for TOT, but I'm not sure that you have used the slots to best advantage.
1. There are 2 freighters, both generic. That seems redundant unless one is meant to be a LST? If so, Nemo has a pretty good LST in his Second Front.
2. Why do the Japanese need 8 aircraft types in addition to the Okha? It seems to me that 2 types of fighters, medium bombers and single engine attack bombers would suffice for one model at the start of the war and one upgrade. I would not get into the unholy mess of duplication of types that the Japanese army and navy engaged in.
3. The Japanese have 6 types of infantry. Assuming that one is miscellaneous or for their allies, I would think that they would need only 3 more . . . . regular infantry, marines and a Kamikaze last-ditch home guard.
4. There are two Japanese light cruisers, Tenryu (old) and Sakawa (modern but not particularly good compared to American CL’s) but none of their powerful heavy cruisers with their unusual turret arrangements.
In view of the above, it seems to me that there are some unneeded units, and would suggest replacing two existing units with the following.
A. Mines
I was checking out Clay Blair's "Silent Victory" (History of US submarine ops in WWII), trying to set up a table of monthly Japanese shipping losses as means of estimating the increase in the efficiency of US sub operations as the war progressed, when I noticed that the Japanese have no mine unit in your proposed list of units, despite the fact that they used them extensively. The Sea of Japan was blocked off by mines to any Allied surface units until the end of the war. Only a few submarines managed to enter through La Perouse Strait between Hokkaido and Sakhalin. I think that there should be Japanese minefields blocking all but the northern entrances to the Sea of Japan and, even there, a few mines would not be historically incorrect. The type of unit that I’m thinking of is used in Red Front.
Floating Mines, nil, 2, 0.,0,12a,30d, 9h,9f, 1,0, 2, no, 000000000000000 (unit is visible, immobile and cannot be built)
I have no idea if mines were used to blockade Tokyo Bay or protect coastline cities.
B. Kamikaze naval units
The Japanese were manufacturing things such as the Kaiten manned torpedo, motor boats loaded with explosives (USS Cole type) and mines to repel an invasion. There is no Kamikaze naval unit to represent these defensive units. I would suggest adding an inexpensive Mv=1 naval unit with low to moderate attack strength. There should be a house rule that it must operate as a trireme and stay in coastal waters.
The units that I'm suggesting are defensive and of much greater potential use to a player than 6 types of infantry units or two light cruisers.
BTW, if anyone wants to know anything and everything about the IJN in WW2, check out the following website.
http://www.combinedfleet.com/kaigun.htm
The site does not have much in the way of photos but more than makes up for it with paintings of many ships, their war histories, naval aircraft, personnel, meaning of ship names, etc., etc., etc.
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
AGRICOLA
|
|
Canadian bush & Florida
Feb 2003
time: 00:16
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Patine
My six Japanese infntry units represent the following roles, in order of appearance:
Home Island defense (strong defense; can't move or be built or disbanded)
Basic Defense (mainland Asia mostly)
Offensive Infantry (more attack; again, mainland Asia mostly)
Marines
Manchukuo Troops
Bansai Troops
If you do think any of these are truly unnessecary, just let me know. |
I certainly can't argue with your choices from a historical perspective. My quibbling is from a player's point of view where I question whether a player would ever want to build more than one of the 5 buildable types, the one with the best A/D numbers. Without knowing what the actual A/D numbers will be, I really cannot comment further.
BTW, that is not a LST in Typhoon's units but most likely a much smaller LCVP. LST's (Large Slow Targets  ) were large ocean-going vessels with the following specs:
Displacement: 1490 tons (lite); 4,080 tons (full load of 2,100 tons)
Length: 327'
Beam: 50'
Draft: 8' fwd; 14'4" aft (full load)
Speed: 10.8 knots (max); 9 knots (econ)
Armament: 1 3"/50 DP; 1 40mm; 6 20mm
Complement: 7 officers, 204 enlisted
Diesel engines, twin screws
LST's carry smaller landing craft topside, a tunnel-like hold full of tanks, vehicles, guns or cargo.
1,152 ordered from Nov 41 to the end of the War
|
|
| |
|
|
|
typhoon
|
 |
of Bollocks
Jan 2003
time: 05:16
|
|
My recommendations for the names of the Japanese infantry-
Home Island defense- Giyugun Hohei (Volunteer Army troops)
Tasked with the defence of the Home Islands. Similar to the British Home Guard and the German Volksstrum, really a hastily erected last line of defence. Fanaticism and willingness to fight to the death however would give them a high defensive value.
Offensive Infantry- Hohei Butai (Infantry Force)
Garden variety Japanese Infantry.
Marines- Senpaku Hohei (Naval Infantry or the SNLF)
The Yokosuka Special Naval Landing Force, many good websites available on them.
Banzai troops- Imperial Guard
Elite troops. It just strikes me odd to have an entire unit devoted soley to running at the enemy screaming their heads off. This trait was not exclusive to one type of Japanese soldier; it was a common tatic throughout the IJA, albeit only later in the war.
Basic Defense- Kempeitai
Military/Secret Police. They were responsible for security in occupied areas.
Manchukuo troops- Kantogun Hohei (Kwantung Army)
The dear chaps who rigged the Marco Polo Bridge incident and later started the Nomohan war with the Soviets. 
Other suggestions:
Scrap one or two of the defensive infantry, replace with:
- Teishi Dan (Paratroopers)
Based on the German Fallschirmjaeger model, they were used mostly for the seizing and occupation of airfields (Dutch East Indies) or, less successfully, were randomly dropped onto Pacific islands to act as garrisons. Without hope of resupply many died from starvation, diesease, or were eaten by cannibals.
- Suicidal troops (cruise missile unit)
In the same vein as the banzai troops that were mentioned, basically these are units which represent the tatic of Japanese soldiers blowing themselves up with grenades when surrounded by allied troops, or attacking tanks with satchel explosives. Most of the time they waited in ditches until the tanks were over them before detonating their charges.
It could also be used to represent the willingness of Japanese civilians to sacrifice themselves should the US mount a successful invasion of the Home Islands. IIRC correctly they were preparing to strap explosives to women and children in order to kill Americans.
- Native troops
Yes, the Japs did raise willing contingents from the locals in the occupied countries. We have Korean and Taiwanese serving in the regular army. Famous examples include Park Chung-Hee (a former President of South Korea) and Lee Teng Hui, an ex-president of Taiwan.
(As a matter of fact, Lee Teng Hui's brother, who also fought for the Japanese, has his ashes buried in the controversial Yakasuni shrine.)
There was the Indian National Army, headed by Chandra Bose, which was committed to overthrowing the British in India with Japanese support. Raised several units from Indian soldiers captured in Malaya and local Indians.
We also have cases of Indonesian and Thai volunteers, Chinese collaborators, and, most strange of the lot, several German members of the French Foreign Legion in Indochina.
- Kihei (Cavalry)
Quite an anachronism, but remember that the IJA was less mechanised than its western counterparts. Also could include Mongolian Bargur scouts working for the Japs.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Leonidas
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Patine
@Leonidas: I will try to get a big Yamato if I can. |
Harlan's WWII Pacific War has a BIG Yamato.
It's the scenario you wanted to download from Civfanatics.
Not sure if it fits with the overall look of the units you want.
But maybe if you post the pic here, one of the brilliant artists here might like to tinker with it and make it look better.
Cheers!
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Leonidas
|
|
I must say that the Pacific War has been a badly neglected theatre, especially in terms of units and graphics...
With all the contributors in this thread, I can see that this short coming will be rectified very soon...
Cheers!
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Patine
|
 |
Edmonton, Canada
Mar 2002
time: 22:16
|
|
Well, I have made a few changes to typhoon's units file that he made for me (assuming, at least, Curt lets me use it; Curt, if you'll please clear that up). First, I turned the Ki-84 has gone back to being a J2M Raiden, jimmywax's to be exact, (sorry typhoon, but I like the idea of planes that didn't historically make it like the Raiden or the Nikkojima Kikka being hypothetically available). Second, I moved the P-51 Mustang to the secondary British infantry slot, as I think one British infantry, plus their Gurkhas, Malay Infantry, and Chindit Rebels should cover that player's foot soldier needs; as well, I wanted to keep the B-24 for its role in the early war in the theater. Third, I will replace the Aichi D3A Val with the mine AGRICOLA suggested. Fourth, a bigger Yamato-Class BB will be used. Fifth, I replaced the current Australian P-40 and US M3 Stuart with jimmy's latest versions (above). And finally, the Shintono Chi-Ha will be replaced with Japanese cavalry, leaving the Type 97 as Japan's principal medium tank. What I really need is a good sea mine (the kind dotting the territorial waters of Japan), a B-24, a big Yamato, and a Japanese cavalry, all in the format used in typhoon's update to my units file. If someone could create or modify these for me, I'd be most appreciative. Thanks!
|
|
| |
|
|
|
typhoon
|
|
of Bollocks
Jan 2003
time: 05:16
|
|
@ Agricola
I should have cleared this up, sorry. The US Navy planes are all the work of Mr. Curtsibling, the only exception being the F-4U Corsair, which is still technically his work (I just modified his Hellcat a little.)
Work of this standard is only acheivable by a select few, and Curt is one of them.
@ Patine
quote:
First, I turned the Ki-84 has gone back to being a J2M Raiden, jimmywax's to be exact, (sorry typhoon, but I like the idea of planes that didn't historically make it like the Raiden or the Nikkojima Kikka being hypothetically available). |
Fair enough. We do have already have a late war IJAAF plane- the Ki-61 Hien.
You could remove the Ki-21 Sally bomber- but that would leave the Japanese without a tatical bomber. Then there's still the Kikka and the J8M... Tough choice...
quote:
Second, I moved the P-51 Mustang to the secondary British infantry slot, as I think one British infantry, plus their Gurkhas, Malay Infantry, and Chindit Rebels should cover that player's foot soldier needs; as well, I wanted to keep the B-24 for its role in the early war in the theater. |
I won't argue about the Brit infantry or the B-24 (which unit are you using for the Chindit anyway?) but here's a suggestion from Case: use one generic Spitfire for the Aussies and the RAF and use the extra slot for something else.
quote:
Third, I will replace the Aichi D3A Val with the mine AGRICOLA suggested. |
That's like not giving the Germans the Ju-87 Stuka.  Divebombing was a pivotal part of Japanese Naval strategy early in the war- Pearl Harbour was such an example. You'll have to keep that for historical accuracy I'm afraid. If not, you'll have to take away the US Avenger in order not to give the US an unfair advantage.
quote:
Fourth, a bigger Yamato-Class BB will be used. Fifth, I replaced the current Australian P-40 and US M3 Stuart with jimmy's latest versions (above). |
Can't argue with these either.
quote:
And finally, the Shintono Chi-Ha will be replaced with Japanese cavalry, leaving the Type 97 as Japan's principal medium tank. |
I'd argue for the Shinhoto Chi-Ha to be kept. Japanese tanks already are at a distinct disadvantage vis-a-vis US tanks.
Here are the changes I would advise:
- Home Island Garrison and Occupied Area Garrison to be combined into one unit. If not possible, then remove Manchukuo troops/Kwantung Army. This will free up one slot, which can be filled with the cavalry.
- Remove Royal Dutch Marine, leaving a generic Dutch infantry for defence of the East Indies.
- Remove the French Infantry. Your scenario begins in 1941; by now French Indochina is firmly in the hold of the Japanese.
- Remove one of the two Chinese infantry- they're basically the same person in summer/winter uniforms.
-The Pack 75 artillery I'm not so sure. They were used by the USMC on Guadacanal and elsewhere. In the end it boils down to personal choice. If it were me I'd have two artillery units- one for the Japanese and one for the Americans.
- Remove one Spitfire.
- Remove one Merchant ship. Replace with minefield.
This leaves you with 3-4 unit slots. What could you use them for?
- Japanese Bicycle troops or Parachutists?
- Nakajima Kikka and J8M Shishui? The Ki-84 Hayate (regarded as one of the best Japanese fighters of the war, and also a Johnny-come-lately)? Suicide boats or civilians?
- F8 Bearcat, A1 Skyraider, maybe a P80 Shooting Star and other US jets?
- Torpedo bombers like the B5N Kate and the Dauntless?
Last edited by typhoon on 22-02-2005 at 16:06
|
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:16.
Apolyton Time is 00:16. |
top of page
|
|
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
20-02-2005 07:03
Attachment: 
, but they are going to make me a foreman in the next couple of weeks and I can't say no to the money.
Attachment: 
yeah. I don't have anything better to do tonight.
|