12-04-2005 19:28									#391
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I t is long and complicated but In the end it boils down to a yes on intermediating.

If we can do well the future with the S could look better.

	12-04-2005 20:49									#392
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I am not in favour of paying for Doc: Air especially when we are close to acquiring it ourselves. via our special ability.

However I can agree to a Pact, with Spartans. This would give us a third infiltrated faction (with Doc: Air research) so when Lal discovers it we will discover it also.

It also goes without saying that we would not accept tech trading restrictions if we discover it ourselves.

	12-04-2005 20:50									#393
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Perhaps asking for a price for DocInit then?

	12-04-2005 21:08									#394
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It seems we three say yes just specifics have to be done.

I had none and what Hercules says makes sence.

With the responce being so long and it tok a while to compose/(send to us) I would not push to hard.

	12-04-2005 21:21									#395
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But at this time it may be useful to initiate a discussion with Morgan and Gaian Ambassadors about this diplomatic approach from the Spartans, to learn of their views.

I think we can say to them that we see ourselves in the role of peace negotiators.

	13-04-2005 03:47									#396
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Dodging on the military pact request gives the Spartans a greater incentive to make the peace process work while also preventing hard feelings and also making the Gains and Morganites more willing to engage in and accept provisions from the peace. We don’t want the Spartans to feel too secure or the Gains/Morganites to feel backed into a corner.

By “diplomatic approach” I assume you mean the Spartans’ willingness to restore peace through negotiations, not their suggestion of military alignment? It might be best to just leave that out from communications with G/M and even play it down or be noncommittal in future with S. The less pressure on this supposedly forthcoming peace process, the better.

	13-04-2005 10:11									#397
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quote: Originally posted by Hercules I am not in favour of paying for Doc: Air especially when we are close to acquiring it ourselves. via our special ability.

I agree. Let us get Doc Initiative. We may explain, that at the moment we need it more. They will probably get the idea of the truth anyway... but at least not directly from us.

	13-04-2005 17:11									#398
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So what's the update with Gaians and Morgan.

	13-04-2005 17:13									#399
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Next turn the Gaians will know we acquired SFF and then may know/guess ? we have infiltrated Morgan. Can they tell from opening one of our bases. ?

	13-04-2005 23:12									#400
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We could always say it's due to them having received it from the Morgans. After all, Lal and Yang have it as well.

They have no idea how long we have info on both of them so...

	14-04-2005 02:46									#401
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I would not advertise our knowlege for the S seem skitish enough with us.

	14-04-2005 03:29									#402
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quote: Originally posted by GeoModder We could always say it's due to them having received it from the Morgans. After all, Lal and Yang have it as well. They have no idea how long we have info on both of them so...

I favour a version of this.

We can advise them saying Yang and Lal have this already so we must have got it when they acquired it (which is true). We don't suggest we know where they got it from.

Indeed they may actually have stolen it from Yang or Lal for all we know.

Or even more confusingly, we congratulate them on stealing SFF from Yang or Lal.

	14-04-2005 04:01									#403
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Meanwhile ForesterSoF has reminded me that we have agreed to transmit EE to the Gaians. I presume they have agreed to send a future tech in return.

I think we can and should do this if we and they have agreed already.

Does anyone think or know if the Spartans have infiltrated the Gaians? Any signs hints?.

The acquistion of Env Econ by Gaians is deniable as sent by us as we can say Lal has it and Gaian's could have easily probed it from them. This is more plausible if Spartans do not have infiltration on Gaians.

By the time Morgan, Gaian and we get Doc: Air the tech trade path is lost. Note the Spartans thoughts on delaying a Pact with us until 2169 at earliest would almost fit this timetable, (with the pact they will know exactly when we receive Doc: Air, with a year delay it will all be become rather confused).

	14-04-2005 10:07									#404
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No way to know if Spartans have infiltration on Gaians. Not likely without a transport/probe team combo on their part, for all northern bases are way inshore.

And there's a pact between Gaians and Morgans. Spartans will assume that every new tech Gaians receive comes from the Morgans.

	16-04-2005 11:17									#405
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Lots to catch up on, but hopefully I'm back now.

From the way I see it, things are progressing well but we're sitting on a fine line.

S wants a pact, M wants a pact, G wants a pact. Obviously, we are seen right now as the balance tilter. Whether that is well-deserved probably remains to be seen.

Neutrality certianly is the best course of action, as is getting Doc: Air through our special, as well as any (and all) techs possible that route now that there's an opening for it. We then become the information brokers we were meant to be.

In this way we try to get enough energy to buy up some defensive and offensive units, say a combo of highest defense rovers possible and highest offense planes to attempt a spearhead invasion of Yang. We have infiltration on him, after all, we should start making the most of it and trying to take him on on our own. This would be the ultimate act of neutrality as far as the human factions are concerned, and perhaps even attempt to encourage each of them to join with us through a pact to all take on Yang until he is defeated, using our bases as the Y-Day attack front for S and G's domain for M.

After Y is defeated, the teamwork that was shown through the Y-War might just be enough to show that Planet can work peacefully toward its goals. What we need to do is just have the most defensive rovers in place ready to zip in and at least secure the closest Y bases. This way any 'foothold' M or S get near us is buffered by former Y bases.

Just some thoughts after reading through to catch up.

	16-04-2005 11:58									#406
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FlameFlash, maybe you could start a new thread in our forum pertaining to future Yang invasion, where we could discuss plans and other issues. Security Nexus was meant for defensive purposes, so that new thread might be good. The sooner we draw good strategic and tactical plans the better.

Also, pm to me your email, so I can send to you our Yang territory map, which we did from base infiltration data. It is old now, but may help

	20-04-2005 09:05									#407
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From the Morgans:

quote: Long time no speak. Are you interested in a 3 way Pact with Gaia and Morgan? We could all share all our tech and leap frog past Sparta. Without the Pact none of us will survive. We have no intell to pass onto you. As you know, Sparta with MCC and its many bases rules the waves. Let me know if you are interested in a three way Pact. Mead PS Because of RL and the low prosepcts of any of us actually winning this game my interest in the game has greatly diminished. Perhaps with the a 3 way Pact the interest on all the teams might be revived.

	20-04-2005 09:56									#408
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They are still trying; but like some I still go for treaty only.

	20-04-2005 10:28									#409
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Actually, when Spartans are going to be Pacted with us we might go for Pact with Morganities too. Having the same rule of not interfering into their conflict. After all, there is also another point Mead is maybe not aware - Spartans wish to negotiate peace. We might get into peace time again. And being in the position of Pacted with almost everyone. Not bad, provided they all will not attack us at some point.

	20-04-2005 11:37									#410
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After pact with S is done then go for pact with M and then negotiate would be my preference.

Because of player order we may have to pact with M with diplo aggrement with S on the why.

The middleman thing has been talked about; I just dont want to get in a yelling contest with S.

	20-04-2005 12:41									#411
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yes, I have a feeling Spartans will not bear very well too much neutrality on our part. They already want us to be very much on their side.

	20-04-2005 20:05									#412
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have any of the combatants actually begun at all with peace negotiations?

	20-04-2005 20:37									#413
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I have only read that the S want peace and use to intermediaries.

I dont want to put the cart before the horse on this one.

	21-04-2005 00:35									#414
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I guess we want to decide how much effort we should put into facilitating the reaching of a peace treaty. Unless they are exactly evenly matched, the sooner they reach peace, the better, lest the victor grow too strong (and pressure grows for us to become militarily involved). Maybe the process needs a little nudge...find out if they are negotiating yet, if not set up a public thread for that purpose?

	21-04-2005 03:04									#415
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How about we canvass the idea of a public discussion thread on this.

I would imagine that whatever their private views, we can always claim (unless they compare notes) that there was a majority for setting up a peace forum. And I would guess there probably is at this time.

	21-04-2005 03:09									#416
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The differences I am see are how cautous to be.

	21-04-2005 03:21									#417
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As far as I can see this is heading towards a crucial decision making time for us DJs.

Get your thinking hats on and post a proposal.

	21-04-2005 06:09									#418
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Both Zakharov and Lal are willing to communicate this turn. But both are getting anxious to have our support against the Morgans as well. Lal brings in an updated map, including Hive territory. Yang refuses to speak.

2 turns before Gaians research EnvEcon, 2 turns before Lal finishes DAP, Yang started DInit.

	21-04-2005 08:50									#419
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Now and first turn
1. Tell S why we need to pact with M.
2. Pact with S by pre approved diplo.

Next turn
Accept Pact from M (Do in first turn if S. can live with it).

Setup talks.

1. Non agression by either S or M.
2. Territory will stay the way it is unless M can buy/trade city/land with S.
3 Pact S and M so they can have mutal trade and improvment. (This is not needed but prefered).

	21-04-2005 17:04									#420
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quote: Originally posted by GeoModder Both Zakharov and Lal are willing to communicate this turn. But both are getting anxious to have our support against the Morgans as well. Lal brings in an updated map, including Hive territory. Yang refuses to speak. 2 turns before Gaians research EnvEcon, 2 turns before Lal finishes DAP, Yang started DInit.

Should we send on Env Econ this turn to the Gaians as a gesture of goodwill ? and also so that they can switch to Doc: Air.

Oh do we need to send Doc Flex as well?

Maybe we should run the Gaians techs thru the spreadsheet forecaster to see what they will discover next ?