11-03-2005 03:40									#241
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'kay, I got dayjob this weekend, so it might be that I'm online when Mart is on the other end of the world.

And I wouldn't just give money to the Spartans... something for something I say. Either it is a comlink or a high-tech rover doesn't matter to me... Perhaps buying a cruiser class ship?

	11-03-2005 03:45									#242
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Ok No problem with that.

	13-03-2005 00:45									#243
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This is a lot the chew on...

quote: Dear IT Mart We thank you for your message in our Embassy, and gratefully acknowledge your stance of Neutrality in our conflict with Morgan (more on this later) In answer to your first question, yes, we are in a position to instabuild the CDF in 2164 Secondly, we are interested in further technology trading, perhaps assisting the Angels in acquiring Planetary Economics (and your building the Ascetic Virtues Project,which you will recall, we undertook not to build.) We, for our part, wouild like to acquire Fusion Power, and MMI, and build the Cyborg Factory. That would essentially complete the military phase of our development for some tens of years. After that, we would plan to focus more on infrastructure, as we would by then see ourselves able to defend ourselves against the Hive - and perhaps take the offensive at some point against Yang Now a word about our conflict with the Corporation: The intent of our elimination of the Planetary Transit System was twofold: a somewhat heavy handed response to their effrontery in mind contolling away our foil, the Hunter, (and while negotiating its possible return to us, hiding it in fungus just 2 tiles outside our main naval base, no doubt to surprise and destroy any transports or probe foils that exited that base) an attempt to "level the playing field" somewhat. Prior to us removing the PTS, Morgan was becoming the dominant faction on Planet, by far. We saw them engaged in an exponential population boom, using the Kody doctrine used so successfully in ACDG history (building nothing but colony pods in size 3 bases that themselves became size 3 bases, thus dramatically growing). Their mineral output in the year before we launched the raid (ie, ignoring the solar flare year) was 119 and their enrgy credit "production" was 94, contributing to lab points of 110 And the raid was not without cost to us, taken on behalf of all Chiron. Unfortunately they saw our transport with its invasion fleet where it was hiding in the fungus and were able to ring the shores with units to prevent easy landing of our forces. As a result, we spent 300 precious credits upgrading Impact Rovers to Amphibious Gatling Rovers - and lost 4 of them as well as the transport they sailed in (rather than let them fall into Morgan hands through mind control techniques) That represented a loss of 160 minerals' worth of investment for us. In addition, our foregone commerce income, due to sanctions, amounts to almost 300 in total over the ten years (assuming that Zak's modest 7 or 8 per turn indirectly funnels to us) But having achieved that limited objective, we then held out the olive branch of peace, as in the meantime Yang had declared Vendetta against us and we were reluctant to fight on two fronts. They have ignored our offers, so in the interim we have engaged in some light "pinprick" skirmishing - shelling of forests and mine on their northern shore, to remind them that we are a military faction. But we note that now, in 2162, Morgan has rebounded from their loss, and now their mineral output is 112 and their enrgy credit "production" is 191 (after getting Environmental Economics, and benefitting from +1 INDUSTRY), contributing to lab points of 61 (they have had to drastically increase Psyxh allocations to deal with resulting drone problems after the loss of the PTS). But at least they are now forced to grow conventially, as we all are, although they have been successful in rapidly closing the technology lead we had by their aggressively probing Yang and purchasing technologies from Lal and Zak But we cannot hide that we are suffering an economic penalty due to sanctions. Also, Morgan has reneged on around 150 ec's owing us in payment for prior technology sales. But early after we met them, we borrowed heavily from Yang and Lal (and we see that you, too, have gone that route - at least with Lal - very shrewd!!), and after defeating the University in battle, we have extorted a small amount of credits from Zak - but he, too is relatively poor, and we would like to see his infrastructure built up and his faction expand - hence our offer to you of his commlink. But we have been fortunate in having a largish navy, and have been able to rein in and open some Unity pods that have released energy credits to us. But we are looking forward to the end of the ten year sanction period, when our - and our Treaty and Pactmates - can resume profitable commerce trading. So while we wage a containment war against Yang, and show some "tough love" to Morgan, we would indeed welcome closer trade relations with the Angels. At this point we still see Morgan as the greatest threat to stability on Chiron, followed closely by the Hive - although the Gaian Union seems to have successfully contained their southern route at the chokepoint between their territories. With Morgan's still growing Industrial and Economic strength, we fear being dragged into an air war against them - any advantage we currently might have there will be short lived - so we are looking towards the future and our own internal population and infrastructure growth. Stronger ties with the Data Angels forms an integral part of that strategy As an aside, we note that Morgan has naval vessels in the ocean between your continent and that of the Peacekeepers. We have a cruiser task force in the vicinity, so do not be alarmed if you see it heading up your western coastline - we are just going to protect our investment in the University and Peacekeeper factions Sincerely, Colonel Googlie

So... will we propose to buy a cruiser type vessel from them then? Zaks comlink is about ours anyway, unless we buy it from them to put sand in their eyes regarding our infiltrating attempt next turn.

It seems their fleet has missed our transport. Otherwise we would have had 'contact' with the Spartans.

There's for sure someone sailing south from the Morgans land, for a pod just south of it is missing...

I think we need to keep from now on 2 probes at all times in Heavens Gate. The Morgans have 2 of their probe foils on sea.

	13-03-2005 01:22									#244
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It's PM'ing time, people... The Morgans have their say as well!

quote: Geo We have recently come into possession of the Spartan map. It is scary. In addition to thier own continent they have, with the exception of three cities, taken Uni. They have taken the Borehole cluster, Unity wreckage, Manifold Nexus, and a phenomenal amount of territory. They are now just north of you. One of their large bases, Fort Superioity is a size 6 base north of you. I hope to share the map with you in order to convince you of the dangerousness of the situation. If you accept the Pact we will again give you a copy of our map in return for your map. Please note that our map has been sustantially updated since our last trade. Mead PS I'll see if I can get screenshots of it made and sent over to you before you post your turn. PPS Do you have infiltration of Sparta yet? If so, you should be able to see what they are doing.

	13-03-2005 01:45									#245
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Bloody hell!!!! Mart, I just tried demanding a redrawal of Yangs' units from our territory and he accepted it!!

	13-03-2005 02:06									#246
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I responded this to Mead, he seemed to wait for a response of some sort.

quote: I posted it in the appropriate thread. 't Will be talked about (again), but no-one of the team seems online atm. Our pact with Lal showed us already a lot more mapinfo, but if you think you can see something about the Spartans we can't with his mapinfo, a screenshot would be welcome. May I ask if one of the Corporate ships popped a pod during your turn?

	13-03-2005 03:18									#247
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A low-res map received from AndiD. I highlighted the relevant part that worries me around Mendelev base, where our probe is supposed to land. Anyone notices the native life bar just off the screenie?

Attachment: mendelev.png
This has been downloaded 8 time(s).

	13-03-2005 08:21									#248
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Goe, do you mean then, we just get rid of Yang by the demand of withdrawal? It would be better, we do not need neither his synth unit nor the impact one.

	13-03-2005 08:23									#249
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quote: Originally posted by GeoModder Anyone notices the native life bar just off the screenie?

It is definitaly rgb color 255. Though with palette switch I am not sure it is native, could be morganic?
----
Anyway, Hercules played to the tile he moved and we have to follow this. The screenie came a bit too late to change that. What we can do is to decide if we disembark the probe team or not. I would let it go ashore.

	13-03-2005 08:34									#250
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And regarding Morgans and Spartans. I would stay neutral still, and do not accept the Pact. Morgans are still very strong. They either exagerate their fear of Spartans or play to get our support in crashing Spartan power with them growing here. I think our neutrality may be good for the time being.

Notice we started to get techs due to our ability.

	13-03-2005 12:48									#251
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Yes, in my diplomatic 'parallel' Yang redrawed his troops at once. Lal is still politely declining to speak with us.

I agree on staying neutral. It is (again) no coincidence that Morgan members keep bombarding me with their view of the Spartan thread. These guys should do advertizing in RL, so persistant are they!

They are trying to pry info as well. I'll see if I can compile the PM exchange last night, but for now I suppose it's fair we tell them we have the same map info they have (couldn't spot anything new on theirs save for the Fungal Tower near Mendelev) in return for the map they gave us.

	14-03-2005 22:57									#252
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So, it's ok I write a 'regret to inform you' PM to the Morgans regarding our neutral stance in their conflict with the Spartans?

And for the Spartans, should I ask for the price of a cruiser type vessel? And if they're sticking to that price for the Uni comlink? Just a matter of putting sand in their eyes so in case they discover our probe they might think we still don't know the map that much.

	14-03-2005 23:05									#253
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If you could make the Morganic info - that would be great.

Cruiser from Spartans? - am I right that according to rules we could do a cruiser probe with it?

	14-03-2005 23:09									#254
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If we can reconfigure a cruiser hull, yes. IIRC there's no restriction against that, but it would be wise to ask of course. Not that I expect the Spartans to be willing tho. Their naval superiority is something they might want to keep.

	14-03-2005 23:11									#255
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We do not have to tell them anything. The rules are stated clearly. If they omit to take it into account - their matter.

Let me check the rules.

quote: Total freedom in Design Workshop, including crawler upgrade (upgrades anytime, during turn or on-field) Retro-engineering allowed, except for using the probe rover chassis before researhing Doc. Mobility.

	15-03-2005 05:09									#256
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No, I meant asking the moderators, not the Spartans.

	15-03-2005 08:37									#257
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I've just sent this to Mead:

quote: Members of the Corporation, The Foreign Ops Centre has reached a decision regarding your proposal for a Pact between our factions. It is the DataJacks' wish in general to stay neutral in the conflict between the Corporation and the Junta. However, we continue to be willing to trade commodities and technologies if agreements can be reached between our factions. But we'll continue to do this as well with the Spartans in case we can reach agreements with them. We can imagine that on possible technology exchanges a trade ban with other factions will be included, and we're willing to comply in this. Sincerely, IT GeoModder

	15-03-2005 08:38									#258
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And I received this from him:

quote: The Spartans have fielded needlejets!! The title says it all. We'll try to send you screenshots. More info to follow. Mead

	15-03-2005 10:06									#259
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Next thing, I am going to do about the game is update the Tech Intelligence. It is now like for 10 turns left.
We then going to see what chances do we have for needles.

	15-03-2005 21:58									#260
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I received this from Mead:

quote: Dear Data Angels and Gaians: As we informed you earlier, we are troubled to inform you that the Spartans have now fielded an air force. We can provide screenshoots of a B-6 Hardened Spartan Needlejet in flight. The Corporation has been presented with couple of choices. One, immediate capitualtion to the Spartans. We can either become the Spartan Pet, or allow the Spartan forces to enter and occupy our bases on by one. Or, two, death within 4 turns. Most, if not all of our members can join the victorious Spartan empire. That can happen. Instead of the above, we could continue to carry on the fight if we have the complete and total cooperation of the Gaians and DA. As I have been saying over the past few turns, perhaps, if we all enter into a three way Pact and coordinate our defensive and tech research we might be able to hold off the Spartan advance. Without complete and total cooperation we might as well go over to the Spartans. The game won't turn out any differently, but at least it will end a little sooner and we'll have a little more fun (maybe they'll let us drive/fly a few of the planes). Please let us know soon so we can make our decision. PS Even with all of us cooperating together it is questionable whether any of us will live, but at least we can try.

If this is meant as an ultimatum, it is the weirdest one I ever readed.

I see no reason to change our position. If the Morgans want to quit, then so be it.

	15-03-2005 22:06									#261
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I took the liberty of sending this to the Gaians:

quote: I suppose your faction has received it as well, since the header was directed to both of us. May I ask how the Gaian Council perceives this 'ultimatum'? To me it sounds that the Morgans want us to choose between them as allies in a forced 3-way pact, or as adversaries on the side of the Spartans. Regards, IT GeoModder

	15-03-2005 23:19									#262
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And the response is:

quote: We're evaluating their claims and trustworthiness. So far, their claims are suspicious, though not necessarily false. I've also seen no evidence of any sort of damage since they lost their capital, so there hasn't been any sustained war on Morganite soil. Thus, all their predictions are, at best, based on guesses regarding Spartan actions. I would be extremely annoyed (at the Morganites) if a seemlingly-healthy Morgan Industries capitulates to the Spartans without a fight.

	15-03-2005 23:27									#263
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quote: Your faction is pacted with the Morgans at present, so you have more information to base your assumption on. We received from the Spartans some energy -and mineral income numbers of the Morgans, which where between 150-200 in both cases. To me this sounds like they (the Morgans) have still the ability to recover from the loss of their capital.

I know, it's almost a white lie.

	16-03-2005 02:07									#264
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Not necessary a lie. Imagine, they have like almost 200 EC per turn. They can build a lot of infrastructure fast. They now are making crawlers. Soon they will have more than us.

I had some thoughts regarding our defences. Soon an update in the Security Nexus.

	16-03-2005 02:09									#265
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No, not that, it's just that I'm more or less implying we don't have the same info the Gaians have about the Morgans.

	16-03-2005 04:30									#266
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It is ok I understand the logic.

The net result is: The Gaians also believe the Morgans are crying wolf a bit. Yes the Morgans can build fast but when we look it is still very threadbare.

	16-03-2005 04:32									#267
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Oh a by product of this I hope is that no-one knows who we have or who we have not infiltrated.

	16-03-2005 05:40									#268
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We have to get also infiltration on Peacekeepers. I tried that in a singleplayer game. In Smac that might be different, but in smax everytime one tries to enter a base of a Pacted faction, a question is if
- move
- perform action
If you take a closer look when taking to AI, there is separate info:
Status: Pact
Infiltration: Active (or inactive)
We can then get infiltration on Lal, this is for the case when PK try to break the Pact. We now know their probe teams positioning in bases. Someone could for example ask Lal to break it, and for good for them reason of removing from us possibility of using our special ability.

I can't wait for the next turn and result of our attempt to infiltrate Zakharov.

	16-03-2005 05:46									#269
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And about infiltrating Gaians. It would be good to get Gaian territory map. Unless we get into Pact with them. I think we might do it soon. We should try to move it forward. Meanwhile I have prepared a list of technologies, which we can trade to Gaians. We have active Trade agreement with them, so we should inform them.

Superconductor
Environmental Economics
Optical Computers
Progenitor Psych
Field Modulation
Adaptive Economics

PK commlink

So quite an offer for Gaians. Could be also used for getting them into Pact.

And here comes some observation. We may be in Pact with Gaians, but as far as I found till now, we do not get their map automatically. I think for human players, each one has to specifically give that map to the other. Once we get the Pact, we can infiltrate them, just in case too.

So returning to technologies, I will prepare the message.
We also seem to loose Eventis forum...

	16-03-2005 05:57									#270
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quote: To Gaian Union, The update of our research situation is in order. Recently we have acquired some new technologies, and as the analysis of our databanks indicates we may offer you the following technologies for trade: Superconductor Environmental Economics Optical Computers Progenitor Psych Field Modulation Adaptive Economics PK commlink Would you have anything to trade in exchange? Sincerely, IT Mart

So this goes regarding tech status. And just a message inquiring them about possible Pact.

quote: To Gaian Union, We would like to ask you about possibility of entering the Pact agreement with your faction. Some time ago we received a letter from you indicating that you seriously consider such possibility. We feel, that Pact between Gaian Union and Data Angels will be soon possible. Would you be willing to enter such agreement? IT Mart

And we can tell Spartans in this regard, that we are in Pact with Gaians for economic reasons. After all, they are not in war with Gaians. We can also explain to Morganities, that the difference between them and Gaians is that they (Gaians) are not in war with Spartans. If Morganities would agree on truce with Spartans, we would have the same situation as with Gaians, and we could enter Pact. Spartans would have to accept this. This would no longer be preferential.
How about also Pact with Spartans?