20-07-2005 08:50									#301
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Surreal is the only word I can come up with. So apparently - peace ius still an option. And man was he digging to figure out about counter-allainces.

	20-07-2005 08:52									#302
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"I think you need peace with us more than we need peace with you."

He's full of it. He really thinks he can fight a two-front war? Let him try. Unless Euphorica is weaker than I'm imagining, BOH diverting units toward us now will really hurt their war efforts on both sides.

	20-07-2005 09:05									#303
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Seriously, that is weird.

These demogames.... you wonder where the game stops and real life starts. People get emotionally invested in these things, don't they.

I do wonder if someone tipped off Paddy regarding our MPP discussions.... E_T and I brought that up to Krill in a chat, and didn't we all wonder if A-M was a BoH vassal?

	20-07-2005 09:10									#304
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And it was brought up by Lost Boy 1889, and the Bards.

They declare war publically because we took a day to reply after he told us the tech deal was no longer an act of war, then he told Beta AGAIN to think long and hard because he wants peace.

If confusion is a game plan they are masters at it.

Oh and I laid into BOH publically. Oops.

	20-07-2005 09:25									#305
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yeah, i saw that. The problem is that you actually make sense, and your points are valid, and there is logic. You must understand how incompatiable that is with BoH grunting and scratching.

	20-07-2005 09:26									#306
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BTW, Beta. I like how you stood up to Paddy. Regardless whether we survive or not, I'm glad you didn't bend to his ridiculous statements and obsfucation.

	20-07-2005 17:18									#307
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Thanks Shogun. To be honest - the next time Paddy catches me on MSN and wants to chat, I think I may tell him I'm not interested. I stayed up later than usual last night for that chat, missed playing some pbem's, and it was both frustrating and IMO a complete waste of time. It is now almost impossible to separate truth from fiction with them, or roleplay from straight-up talk.

And unless they have a pact with another civ to attack us - and DR are the ones who worry me - I'm sure we will survive.

	20-07-2005 21:19									#308
	Put an end to popups!

Beta - I don't know how you put up with that chat. It was like talking to the clinically insane - very disconncted, unrelated answers. It was hard to follow.

Then Paddy says things like "it's all good - just a little role play"; but when I called the Khan pathetic he takes it personally. I cleared that up with him in a chat this morning. But wow. If you are going to dish it out - take a little in game name calling back.

I wonder who told of plans to form alliances? AM? I didn't mention that to Lost Boys. Did I? I thought I told them we'd like peace with all. That we were willing to MPP. An MPP is much different than and alliance against the Horde.

Oh well, maybe when Babylon is done this team can play a Babylonian Losers PBEM.

	20-07-2005 22:07									#309
	Full PM-box? Change here!

As to the alliance thing - I suspect he was fishing - or intepreted that from what I sent to DR, which they may have shared. I am pretty sure that neith AM or LB are sharing anything with BOH.

In fact - BOH's obvious instability and irrational behaviour (which they are more than willing to share publicly ) is probably playing into our hands as others come to mistrust thema s well.

Either that, or they have some deep-deep strategic plan and this is all a cover. Hard to imagine.

A Babylonian team pbem sounds good. I was thinking one where we all played the same civ - Babylon, perhaps as the tribes of babylon or something like that.

	21-07-2005 12:20									#310
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It is very likely, though not certain, that DR has traded Mono to BoH. If not, someone else now has it.

E_T

	26-07-2005 04:42									#311
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What is up with Paddy? He's calling me out in public on my terrible insults and use of the word "Whored". I used moron and illiterate to describe a team that is playing it up as uncivilized barbarians. Thought that was what they were going for. Should have taken as a compliment not an insult.

He even sent me an email asking me not to use that language on a family site. WHAT, is he serious? With all his talk about drunkeness, and dancing girls in the bar/spam threads. I don't get him.

I'm not posting this to turn this into a ***** err b1tch about Paddy thread but what is going on with him. I actually like the Paddy that I know outside of this EoD game. I am just looking to vent and maybe get some insight in this very confusing man.

	26-07-2005 07:51									#312
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Yes - he can be somewhat confusing. I posted something awhile back that I thought was innocent enough - and he got upset with - again quoting family.

On the the other hand - he posts his "running of the bulls" pic, which I find particularly offensive, ( some terrified animal crashing to the pavement after being run through the streets for 'entertainment') and yet he can't understand it. Maybe its an Australian thing.

And yes - I don't know where Paddy is coming from in this game. he is erratic and emotional - well he has always been emotional - but at times he seems right off the wall.

Stick to your guns and repeat that you meant no offense.

I read your posts and thought they weer OK. How do others feel?

	26-07-2005 09:06									#313
	Increase the size of your Attachments

The "whored" thing was perhaps a little much, but about on par with some of the things BOH was tossing in return.

* Kloreep shrugs

Personally, I just wish it would all die down. This is reminding me of the PTWDG, in a bad way.

And I agree that Paddy's "family-friendly" thing is strange. Perhaps he should think about "family" seeing him enjoying the role of a rampaging warmonger before he worries about them learning a few new words.

	26-07-2005 10:05									#314
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I have spent some time with Aussies, they have some words that are grave insults when bandied around. If a friend calls a friend a bastard then fine, if someone else calls the same person a bastard then I have seen the most peaceful people suddenly erupt and start fighting. Just a thought.

	26-07-2005 17:00									#315
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Paddy insisted that his title be changed from deity to prince because "of the appearance that was giving to my family". Apparently, his son frequents the board and this fact caused a lot of consternation

So, our top Poly poster is a Prince.

Paddy curses and talks about drinking himself to a stupor in threads -- that is okay.... not so family friendly if ask me (like I care about family friendly on a civ game site). So I'm not sure what pushes his buttons and what doesn't -- apparently anything can.

He's a good dude, it just takes a really soft touch...very soft.

	26-07-2005 19:03									#316
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Well, all of the time that he spends on 'poly, that's much less that he spends with his family.

A remember, some time ago, that he was saying things (IIRC, in the PTWISDG) that he didn't want to spend so much time away from his family, or something like that. It looks like he got sucked into this.

E_T

	26-07-2005 19:10									#317
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Thanks guys. Maybe it is a cultural thing, maybe it is a tired erratic Paddy thing.

Like I said, in other games, he seems fine, maybe he is having a problem with the direction that his role play is being responded to.

I'll just let it go and tone down my posts.

	26-07-2005 20:40									#318
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I got an email back from Paddy. He had a problem with the word "whored". Here is his response to me. I only post it because this might give insight to Paddy.

quote: Hi there only issue I have is the word "whored" party on booze it up, play it up, have fun with the Horde. quote us, miss quote us enjoy sorry to have caused offense you play well, and your posts are great have fun, please Paddy

"Diety" and "Whored" - bad. Boozing - family oriented. It's all very simple.

He did this just a few weeks ago when I called the Kahn "pathetic" and said that he came crying to us for peace.

I'll just have to err on the side of caution for now on.

	27-07-2005 08:17									#319
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As Paddy would say .. "It is all good." ...sort of...

	10-08-2005 12:33									#320
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With the latest save.

quote: Babylon, Ambassador Plato awaits your communication. At this time, as a sign of good faith, we have held our troops in place, as in not advancing further towards your lands. Paddy

	10-08-2005 20:15									#321
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I just replied. The Horde has a problem with waiting.

quote: Members of the Mighty Horde, Babylon is grateful for your show of mercy. We are strongly considering your offer. You will have you answer soon enough. Thank you for your time and mercy, Skrobism Vox Inannum

What exactly was that offer and who is taking the lead? I can if that is desired.

	11-08-2005 08:44									#322
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I think that they are bluffing. We don't know that they are there, but I'm very certain that they aren't even close to attacking us. They don't want us around, but they also don;t have anything remotely able to attack us.

As a matter of fact, they may be having problems with Euph or getting ready to attack AM.

If it's AM, they might want to use our situation to their advantage.

So, I won't trust them that much.

E_T

	11-08-2005 19:14									#323
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I don't trust them at all. I have not chatted with anyone at BOH.

Should I?
What is on the table?

	12-08-2005 06:52									#324
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Intelligence on AM's Plan. But we don't devulge it until we have a deal for that Intel.

For instance, we tell BoH that we have very good and vital Intel as to Immedient Plans and Plans for their GA (just started 2 turns ago). We ask them what they are willing to pay for it, depending on what they figure it;s worth. After they make whatever agreements, we tell them and then they decide if it was worth the agreed cost (maybe with a variance factor, to be agreed on before devulging the intel).

That is what is currently on the table.

After that, we can discuss things further.

E_T

	13-08-2005 07:24									#325
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I'll see what I can do.

	13-08-2005 09:21									#326
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A chat with PLATO and Paddy. The intros and good byes were removed. All diplo is as follows:

quote: .. Skrobism says: so it's a game, and I'm losing at the moment. shall we play? PLATO says: haha...Sure. What's on your mind Great Lord Skrobism? Skrobism says: The Lords of Babylon have intel that might save the Horde from destruction. PLATO says: We would be most happy to hear that information...and its source Skrobism says: Babylon does not care how 'happy' it makes the Horde. What is it worth to you? PLATO says: Lord Skrobism, I hear sincerity in your words, but our armies approach your boarders and your position is grave. We would need a token of what knowledge you posses to open negotiations at this point. PLATO says: A sincere token from which our warring nations can build trust Skrobism says: I thought Paddy opened discussions via an email. Skrobism says: trust. funny PLATO says: Discussions are not negotiations Great Lord. Skrobism says: true PLATO says: The Horde wished to speak with you on possibilities due to past friendship and current misunderstandings. PLATO says: Yet you open negotiations with asking us to offer up something for unknown knowledege Skrobism says: Trust me I never wanted that friendship to end. PLATO says: We will be happy to talk with you about this, but need more than a dubious statement as to our destruction PLATO says: Well, I believe you that you didn't PLATO says: I have reviewed all the communiques from your nation and have found yours to be most honourable Skrobism says: thank you I am honored that you say that. PLATO says: It is truth Skrobism says: I hope that you understand that I can not reveal the intel until I know that you, the Horde will at least declare a cease fire. PLATO says: If the information is as critical as you say and proves to be reliable, I can assure you that the Horde would take a fresh look at our relationship Skrobism says: I hope that you understand that I have seen the Horde take a fresh look at our relationship before. It didn't work out so good for us. Skrobism says: OK Skrobism says: I have intel that a nation is ready to turn its full attention your way. Skrobism says: I can get troop mov'ts, and much more. PLATO says: Haha...indeed. I must say that weather or not the "misunderstandings" we have had are just that or were truly something sinister, that your nation did not come across well within the Horde. If that is to change then we would need a different type of commitment to communication for starters Skrobism says: * hold on must check on the boys* Skrobism says: *I'm back must read* Skrobism says: re: Communication & action - I think that will be changing very soon. Skrobism says: I can improve it greatly. PLATO says: That would be a good start. I would like to work with you Skrobism says: and I you. Skrobism says: *it's so sweet* PLATO says: haha Skrobism says: Send communication to me. Skrobism says: ok? Skrobism says: cc anyone else but send it to me. makes thins less confusing. PLATO says: The information that you have already revealed suggests much to The Horde already. As I am sure you are aware we have a large force moving in that part of the world. We also have a large force elswhere. Our military people tell us that we are ready for any betrayal. PLATO says: I will...communicate with you that is Skrobism says: I can get more info. Skrobism says: what is it worth? PLATO says: It appears to me though that you have a bigger problem than us at the moment. I have read the battle reports and it seems that your nation is losing its other war badly Skrobism says: so why bother with us? PLATO says: Well, I hate to say it, but yes...why make peace now. Your location is a good one for us to position our southern army anyway. PLATO says: other than this information, what is Babylon willing to offer? Skrobism says: Your lives! Skrobism says: PLATO says: Haha...I am not convinced they are in danger! Convince me. Give me an idea of what kind of troop numbers. You don't have to name countries. If the number is of concern to my Generals, then you can have your cease fire and we will begin formal negotiations. Fair enough? Skrobism says: It is not just troop numbers. You don't get it at all do you? Skrobism says: I know of other mov'ts. PLATO says: I suppose not. Help me out? Skrobism says: first will you spare our lives and what are you will to pay? PLATO says: Skrobism, I want to trust you. And I want you to trust me. The problem is that we are at war in a world where truth and commitment mean little to many. I am asking for a token of what you offer. I am offering a cease fire while we discuss whatever you reveal. How can I do more? Skrobism says: Sounds fair enough. For now. When are you scheduled to play next? PLATO says: haha...who knows? I believe DR has the save now. So we will have it after a couple of more teams play. Hopefully this weekend, but is hard to prdict these days Skrobism says: OK. So, I have time to gather this intel into a nice neat package for you before you play. I'll send a tidbit or two. You decide if it is worth your while and I'll send some more. All before you play next. OK? PLATO says: Fair enough. When should I expect the first package? Skrobism says: tomorrow by Noon US CT. ok? PLATO says: That sounds perfect. Skrobism says: So, we have a cease fire, in exchange for some info tidbits. Then we can discuss other details - peace, gold, tech? PLATO says: And Skrobism, You do know what we have moving your way right? I would not like this very much if it were a trick. Just want to be clear on that part...Trust will take some time to build Skrobism says: I've heard that troops are coming. PLATO says: I am looking forward to it, but I want it to be a real trust between ambassadors Skrobism says: Look. I want to get the info to you before your turn. PLATO says: BTW, has the source of this info been one of the causes of the delays? Skrobism says: There are many plates spinning right now. So much distrust. So much confusion. Of course that is some of the delay. PLATO says: ahh...interesting Skrobism says: really. emails between teams takes time, discussion, and more time. Let's be real. Then throw in real life mid summer trips, etc. Skrobism says: *beer's gone* PLATO says: Well, in the spirit of trust I will tell you what you face from us should this not work out. The Horde has been preparing well. General Rubychaser has been given command of Three Heavy Brigades...The Grey Wolves. They number 19 units with more in support coming. This is the token of my good faith I offer you. Now I want to know if the source of this info is the cause of these delays. Can you Skrobism says: yes. There is no need to threaten! Is that all the Horde knows? PLATO says: Not a threat Great Lord Skrobism says: a promise PLATO says: Just information PLATO says: I have revealed our troop strength to you and asked nothing in return PLATO says: except a straight answer Skrobism says: I'll get right on that stack of 20 then. Skrobism says: my answer Skrobism says: yes PLATO says: Haha...If that is your wish Skrobism says: stop PLATO says: Thank You Paddy says: hello Skrobism says: but I already said that above ..."yes. There is no need to threaten! Is that all the Horde knows? " Paddy says: I am confused Skrobism says: ok stop Skrobism says: I want a cease fire Skrobism says: I have info Paddy says: PLATO says: BTW, has the source of this info been one of the causes of the delays? Could you answer that for me please Skrobism says: for the third time Skrobism says: YES PLATO says: haha...don't get over my head. I am from Tennessee! Paddy says: thank you. Paddy says: The chat was moving fast, I appreciate your clarifying that. PLATO says: Yes, Lord Skrobism. Thank You Skrobism says: can we continue? Paddy says: by all means PLATO says: Of course Skrobism says: We have a cease fire. I offered tidbits by noon tomorrow US CT. You have astack of doom coming our way. More info could get Babylon peace, gold, or techs. PLATO says: Depending on the information. Given the strategic situation as we know it, it seems peace is already a big step for us to give. At this point (remembering that we do not have the secret info) I should be asking for techs and gold from you PLATO says: I do offer honest negotiation based upon what we develop together in the next couple of days Skrobism says: funny. I'm going to save your skin and you want gold from me. Skrobism says: honesty is good. PLATO says: Skrobism, as i said I want to trust you, but the only skin that I can be sure is trying to be saved at this point is yours Skrobism says: The delay until tomorrow is cuz I want to pour through my forum and get the most accurate info for you. Skrobism says: re: skin maybe PLATO says: hehe Skrobism says: Whatever happens - war peace or nothing. I want to keep honest lines of communication open. PLATO says: As do I. I look forward to you package arriving. You may consider a cease fire in effect while the Horde reviews it. We will take no offensive action against you this coming turn. Upon review of what you offer that may be extended for formal negotiations. I am sticking my neck out here. I hope this is what you say it is. Skrobism says: It is. And if things play out. Babylon could continue to get you intel as things progress. But we might need to be tricksy. PLATO says: We will determine the next step together after we see what you offer. It would be good if we can heal some rifts here. It is in your hands for now. Skrobism says: It is in both of our hands. Babylon just wants peace. We want to study science and culture in our little corner of the world. I hope that we can get past these rifts. PLATO says: Until tommorow then. When will you be available for chat in the afternoon or evening tommorow. I am also US CST. Skrobism says: I will check in a few times, but if the weather is nice there are a lot of weeds to pull outside.

The summery can be found here:

quote: Skrobism says: We have a cease fire. I offered tidbits by noon tomorrow US CT. You have astack of doom coming our way. More info could get Babylon peace, gold, or techs. PLATO says: Depending on the information. Given the strategic situation as we know it, it seems peace is already a big step for us to give. At this point (remembering that we do not have the secret info) I should be asking for techs and gold from you

So. What do I send them from AM as Tidbits? What else do I offer?

Also look at how these guys don't wait for an answer. They are so busy threatening. They wanted an answer. I gave it 3 times but they continue with threats. Very odd.
Maybe it's in-character. Both were very easy going before and after the diplo talks - not so jumpy.

	13-08-2005 19:32									#327
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Wow! we've got nothing to offer. Here is what I am sending...

quote: Thank you for the discussions last night. Babylon wishes to continue it existance. We are small, and getting smaller. Babylon wishes to study science and culture in a quiet corner of the world. We never wanted war - not with the Desolators, not with the Morporkians, and not with our former friend and ally the Blood Oath Horde. Do what you want with Babylon, we have no way to force you to change your mind or actions. I offer the following as a sign that we wish to begin anew i friendship. There is a nation that is positioning for a major strike against BOH. It will take time, but you don't mind. You are giving them that time. You are moving your troops out of the way for them. Like I said this will take time. This nation has already completed its first steps towards your demise. quote: We have a couple of prebuilds going at the moment. Depending on what happens with the tech race, the FP can go into any of them. As to where they are, AAAAA is my preference, but BBBBB and CCCCC are also building large improvements atm, and so we don't have to make our minds up just yet. We know that when the the Palace jumps it will be to the side of that nation away from BOH and that they plan to have many troops there to assure that the palace jumps to the right place. Babylon needs time to sort that out for you, but we know that this is to position for an attack against BOH. I have probably already revealed enough for you to figure out who and where. But, Babylon will make this clear for you if you grant us peace. More info will continue to flow from this nation through Babylon to you. We can discuss the price on more details after we have peace. We will need to be very careful about this. There are many nations that are upset with the Horde. Babylon has insight into these many nations, but our open peace could restrict our access. I am sure that we can work something out. -Skrobism Vox Inannum

	13-08-2005 20:38									#328
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quote: Originally posted by skrobism Also look at how these guys don't wait for an answer. They are so busy threatening. They wanted an answer. I gave it 3 times but they continue with threats. Very odd. Maybe it's in-character. Both were very easy going before and after the diplo talks - not so jumpy.

Ah, the Ribbentop School of Dipmomatic Negotiations seems to have been their Educators.

Skorb, only thing you can do, with types like that, is to either start shouting at them, across the table, or not even meet with them, in the first place.

Keep up the good work.

E_T

	16-08-2005 03:34									#329
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Fine dancing skro.

I'm back - but you have had much better luck with BOH than I ever did - please continue with them.

	17-08-2005 01:35									#330
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Rubychaser of BOH contacted us looking for a chat. I asked to speak with Rubychaser at 10pm US CT. No reply email yet.