12-07-2005 14:42									#211
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Thank you very much for sorting this out, and especially for this analysis. Indeed BOH becomes more threatening from day to day. I wonder how long it will be before we´re getting into the focus of their attention.

Paddy´s harsh replies may have been a try to manufacture a casus belli on us. I think they´re worried about the DR war, as there´s not much ground to be won right now. Maybe they´re looking for an easier target... Fortunately you imply that they cannot research on their own, so they need us right now.

So we need to find a balance between upkeeping their need for our research and not letting them get invincible...

	12-07-2005 17:04									#212
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quote: Originally posted by Micha Paddy´s harsh replies may have been a try to manufacture a casus belli on us. I think they´re worried about the DR war, as there´s not much ground to be won right now. Maybe they´re looking for an easier target... Fortunately you imply that they cannot research on their own, so they need us right now. So we need to find a balance between upkeeping their need for our research and not letting them get invincible...

I had similar suspicians.

	12-07-2005 17:14									#213
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E_T - great note. And it does explain your frustration. Hang in there my friend. And I apologize for not communicating the information to BOH sooner. I had a busy weekend as well, As did Skrobism. But that's life.

skro - wonderful note! A masterpiece.

So, we have done all our sucking up, and they still want feudalism. Silly choice. E_T - your logic must be lost on them.

Then again - my thinking is we slowly ease out of this war, or make a token contribution, while saying all the right things. DR, Euphorica and BOH will continue to expend their energy on each other - which is great for us. If BOH makes the wrong choice regarding governments, then great for us.

And I am thinking we should really engage LB and AM in serious chats. You will see the request from Krill this weekend to chat.

	12-07-2005 19:16									#214
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quote: Originally posted by Beta So, we have done all our sucking up, and they still want feudalism. Silly choice. E_T - your logic must be lost on them. If BOH makes the wrong choice regarding governments, then great for us.

wrong Government for a builder style player, right gov for a concouring style player. And I would assome that they will very soon, start to take and keep cities, instead of raze them.

quote: And I am thinking we should really engage LB and AM in serious chats. You will see the request from Krill this weekend to chat.

Expect AM to be next, most likely when the DR war is winding down.

And also expect this game to be over, before We get to Industrial. BoH won't want us to get a chance for either Riflemen or RR.

E_T

	12-07-2005 20:13									#215
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re: a masterpiece
Thanks. But I can't tell, is your post laughing at me?

re: E_T's life
Hang in there. I know they can eat up all of your time, but it's good to have a family that you can help. Bills - well we've all got them. We have all been there. Problem is when it's your relationship gone bad, it seems like your the only one. Fleas - well that's too much information. Hang in there.

re: AM and Krill
That's odd. I emailed them and got no response in June. See the thread. Beta, if Krill wants to chat with you no problem you can take the lead with AM.

re: Lost Boys & 1889
I have been emailing with 1889. I will continue this and see what can be done about a chat.

re: BOH
As soon as we outlast our usefulness, we become the target. Maybe we start asking BOH to fund our future research.

	13-07-2005 01:33									#216
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No - not laughing at you skro. I really thought it was good. And the boys and fighting thing was a hoot. And then the 15 year old with the dishes collection. Still makes me laugh. Thank you. Need more of that.

If AM wants to chat with me - that is fine. Maybe I can take AM and you can take LB. I know 1889 pretty well - he is really decent PBEM player and a good guy to boot - so I would be happy to be involved, but you should have no probs dealing with him. He will likely be sparing in his use of words - ie pretty direct. But that is more a case of him essentially being a one-person team and the time contsraints related to that.

E_T - really hadn't thought much about feudalism and a conquering nation. But you make a ggod point. I never really had any use for feudalism. (Guess I'm a builder.) OTOH, if they don't have the towns to support that level of military - it will be costly. And that will be their weakness if a number of civs turn on them and they have a spread out empire of small towns to defend.

	13-07-2005 01:58									#217
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re: LB and 1889
I'll take that assignment. I seem to be getting on fine with 1889.

re: the 15 year old imposter
Imagine showing up to work with the local paper's write up on this kid on your chair. Then family and friends calling ALL WEEK about seeing ME in the paper. Haha real funny. Freak! "I feel in love with it not only sentimentally, but I loved the pattern." The newspaper has him going on about the Blue that he just LOVES!

I'll stop now. I guess everyone needs a hobby. He probably cringes when he sees some of my posts here.

	13-07-2005 07:14									#218
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Well so much for diplomacy.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...085#post3910085

I think I topped E_T.

	13-07-2005 07:55									#219
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Heh. Just a game, Skro, just a game.

Much as I agree with your sentiment, I'd suggest we not post in public for the time being. Let's try to keep cool. Revenge is a dish best served cold.

	13-07-2005 07:57									#220
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just a game just a game just a game

	13-07-2005 08:22									#221
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I agree with Klo. Lets go silent and deep.

I have a chat scheduled with Euphorica for tomorrow evening. Snoopy contacted me.

I have PM'd Krill of AM saying we want to talk.

I will contact DR - and we may as well trade our new tech for what we can get for it.

And that leaves LB and 1889, who looks like he was a bit of a peace broker here. Ditto on the tech with LB - and we should do it sooner than later.

	13-07-2005 08:24									#222
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Chatting with Euphorica now. See the Euphorica thread and get on-line if you can.

As for DR, I wouldn't contact them for the moment. I feel we still have obligations to Euphorica.

	13-07-2005 13:43									#223
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Hm, I had written this in the ceasefire thread. It was there for about fifteen minutes, though I doubt anyone got to look at it. I have now edited it out after reading the "silence" rule.

quote: Wow, this treachery is indeed disgusting, though it did not come unexpected. Khan Paddy has been working towards it for many weeks now. It´s a pity the Bards will have to carry most weight of this cowardly display of weakness. Note that I´m not speaking officially for Babylon, these are my own opinions. OOC: Paddy, please come out of character soon, for many here start wondering whether those hatred-filled eMails were your personal feelings or roleplay by the Khan...

	13-07-2005 18:47									#224
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I'm not sure where this silence rule is, but I imagine that it states that secret talks stay secret. I don't see how what you posted would have broken a rule like that.

	13-07-2005 19:51									#225
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Not a hard and fast rule - and to a certain extent - posts like your s Micha honestlt reflect how we feel, and support the formal correspondence that has gone to LB for instance.

	13-07-2005 19:54									#226
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quote: Originally posted by skrobism I'm not sure where this silence rule is, but I imagine that it states that secret talks stay secret. I don't see how what you posted would have broken a rule like that.

No - the silence suggestion was not about that. That would be expected under any circumstances I think. It is more along the lines of not getting caught up in mud slinging in public - unless we have valaid and agreed-upon reasons for doing so. Some of the other demo games have had serious public flare ups, and given that we have been played by BOH on this one, Klo and I are suggesting we taking a high (and quiet) road on thos. Although posts like Micha's won't be a problem at all.

	13-07-2005 21:20									#227
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Mudslinging?!?!!? I dare say BOH started this with listing their dubious reasons for calling a cease fire.

Oh well. High road it is. I updated my FU statement in the cease fire thread earlier today.

	14-07-2005 00:37									#228
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Impromptu chat with paddy. He has been drinking.

hello
Beta says:
hi - my conf call is done. Thank god
Paddy says:
hello mate
Beta says:
How are you doing after the kerfuffle of the last few days?
Paddy says:
I am ion from a long party
Paddy says:
too many beers, too many short black coffees
Beta says:
oh joy.
Paddy says:
indeed
Paddy says:
ahh the kerfufflr
Beta says:
how are you doing at BOH?
Paddy says:
not sure any more
Paddy says:
having a few issues
Beta says:
is this roleplay - or serious team issues, or can you tell me?
Paddy says:
I have upset many
Paddy says:
the team is all setup on rleplay
Paddy says:
eachj have their postions etc
Beta says:
But these issues between you and the team - they are for real.
Paddy says:
my not being able to bring home the deals thus sets me up as a weak leader
Paddy says:
I say - Look Horde - we have this deal
Beta says:
ahh... we probably did not help in that matter.
Paddy says:
then nothing etc
Paddy says:
hehe
Paddy says:
so when on this last deal many said no way to trading cirrency to you
Paddy says:
they said that after monarchy that NO WAY etc
Paddy says:
I pushed and said - YES. me being Khan
Paddy says:
then I was asked to send your team email asking if tech sent
and I got a reply back that did not answer the quetion
Paddy says:
set off some Hawks shall we say
Paddy says:
thus as the hours went be I kept tryiong to get some straight answers
Beta says:
Were you drinking the other day. It sure seemed out of character for you, my friend. Or were you just under extreme pressure from the team. Or a bit of both.
Paddy says:
was trying to defend my position in horde
Paddy says:
I was under pressure
Beta says:
Ok - but if the hawks were out for you - why in God's name make peace with DR after your allies had sustained losses as part of a joint plan.
Beta says:
This part is very baffling - and somewhat upsetting.
Paddy says:
peace with DR
Paddy says:
I have read Chris's posts many times since coming home
Paddy says:
I have the save
Paddy says:
there be NO peace at this time
Paddy says:
he is open to it being discussed
Paddy says:
and I believe he has discussed it, awaiting talking with him on that
Paddy says:
thus why I still awake
Paddy says:
yeah yeah - I a gamer junkie
Beta says:
But he has called for a cease-fire. Is this NOT going to happen. Was his post 'un-sanctioned."
Beta says:
What time is it there???
Paddy says:
ahh that "Ceasefire" he called for was called indeed
Paddy says:
at this time we are in a truce from way thread reads
Paddy says:
I need to talk to him
Paddy says:
I have the save
Beta says:
Cease fire vs peace??? I don't understand.
Paddy says:
I have battle plans
Beta says:
IF the target is still DR, why give them a breather.
Paddy says:
indeed, that is why I need to talk to him
Beta says:
ah - I see.
Paddy says:
I need to know where I as Khan stand... ok
Beta says:
ok
Beta says:
Let me ask...
Paddy says:
please
Beta says:
Do we in babylon need to be worried that a stack of anciaent cavalry is coming our way?
Paddy says:
hahaha
Paddy says:
oh Beta, no mate
Paddy says:
can I tell you a state secret
Beta says:
by all means.
Paddy says:
I have 21 units in a stack outside Antioch
and am forming 3 more stacks of 16 units total to rush to help 1st stack
I thought that would hurt DR and all that

then last turn 2 stacks of 17 barbarian horse appeared on our northern borders
they already plundered one town... and hurt us
Paddy says:
soem of these new 3 stacks are in Bards lands ready once formed to race to help
Beta says:
ouch
Paddy says:
dilemma
Paddy says:
era change stacks
Paddy says:
of barbarians etc
Beta says:
Yes - we are preparing on our western border. Stacks of bowmen are ready.
Paddy says:
good
Paddy says:
we can not allow Barbarians to take us out
Paddy says:
not after all the fine work done so far
Beta says:
So - if i read you correctly - you are still pushing to execute the Dr campaign - and in fact - execute DR.
Beta says:
I understand about the barbs.
Paddy says:
that is my goal, my agenda, my mission
Beta says:

Beta says:
Thumbs up doesn't work here.
Paddy says:
I stood with you at the summit
Paddy says:
sorry old msn
Paddy says:
Hassle I face, seems to be some of horde upset
Paddy says:
Beta, the other night, were my emails that bad?
Beta says:
Please keep me posted. My team is none too impressed as of late. And if I were you, I would be more worried about the impact on Bards.
Beta says:
Yep - you did seem out of character. And you sure bit E_T's head off in a hurry. Maybe I know him well enough to guage his moods and what he says.
Paddy says:
I was just getting frustrated that my question "did the tech get sent accepted?" was never getting answered
Beta says:
Poor Skro felt bad as it was his job to contact you and he had a baptism to attend on the weekend.
Paddy says:
Skro is a good lad
Beta says:
He is a great guy!
Paddy says:
Can you explain to me why noone would answer my question?
Beta says:
Good writer too.
Beta says:
His last letter was priceless.
Paddy says:
indeed
Paddy says:
Beta?
Beta says:
yep
Paddy says:
Can you explain to me why noone would answer my question?

Beta says:
Because the simple answer was no - which was clearly freaking you out. And neither E_T nor I had time to explain the long answer regarding the tech research costs. Which was a really sound idea that E_T came up with.
Beta says:
and
Beta says:
You have to know there was not one thought on the team to screwing you in this deal. The sole intent was to try and hurt DR.
Paddy says:
Why not just say - No

then give me explainations
Paddy says:
all the explainations just sounded like wind after a while when the simple question could not be answered
Beta says:
That is what I said - and then you went ballistic on me - and then ballistic on E_T.
Paddy says:
thus my frustrations
Paddy says:
sorry - you said that in the email
Paddy says:
my error then
Paddy says:
that was the point the Horde members came back at me askimg to get cleared
Beta says:
Well - we all have bad nights - and balancing the pressures you doi here on Poly would drive anyone bonkers.
Paddy says:
None of us saw your answer
Paddy says:
ahhh

but> > there are valid and strategic reasons for > delaying > > the transfer.

Paddy says:
sorry I did not understand that to then mean - No.
Paddy says:
my apologises
Beta says:
Here is my post:
Paddy says:
I thought you were telling me reasons,
Beta says:
Greetings Lords of the Horde.

skrobism should respond soon. E_T has raised a good point regarding the tech trade which we wish to discuss. We are not reneging on the deal - but there are valid and strategic reasons for delaying the transfer.

Regards .... Beta.

Paddy says:
yes indeed
Beta says:
And CM and Plato were CC'd. As was Euphorica.
Paddy says:
sorry I did not understand that to then mean - No.

	14-07-2005 00:46									#229
	Full PM-box? Change here!

well! This is another twist!

Either Paddy is lying about continuing to attack DR or his team is close to mutiny.

Interesting.

	14-07-2005 00:48									#230
	Full PM-box? Change here!

oh, and how about a big Babylonian cheer for Skrobism, E_T, Kloreep, and Beta for handling these difficult days of diplomacy!

	14-07-2005 01:16									#231
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Definately! Great job guys!

	14-07-2005 01:30									#232
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You are all welcome and it is nice to hear such kind things said.

regarding diplomacy

I have all but burned down the Temple to TNA.

	14-07-2005 07:50									#233
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I'm not much of a diplomat, because I just don't have the time nor inclanation to want to be. I've been able to participate in diplomatic chats, but always with the diplomat being present.

I have dine side channel lealings, with conterparts, dealing specifics of cash transfers, etc. But all hard core numbers.

And I really don't do much Rolyplay, just too time consuming, dealing with a character persona that isn't really my own.

I did (LONGGGG.. Ago) play D&D, but was more into the thinking aspect than playing the character. I've also (breifly) played some heavy roleplaying games, but they grew tiresome, quickly.

But thanks, anyways

E_T

	14-07-2005 21:52									#234
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I believe that we are safe with BOH. We are not the current or even next targets. I do believe that TNA is falling down around us.

I want to request of BOH some screenies of our neighbors the Morporkians. The have a ROP. It would be nice to see where those units are. Not that we have any plans for an AM war, but because I want to see where their troops are on our North border with AM.

Ideas on this?

	15-07-2005 00:51									#235
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from Paddy with the save

quote: Greetings Lords of Babylon We look forward to receiving Feudalism accepted as agreed to Hope all is well against the barbarian uprisings. Please let us know if we can be of any assistance in this matter. Paddy, Khan of the Blood Oath Horde.

	15-07-2005 00:51									#236
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Paddy can be pretty funny sometimes.

	15-07-2005 01:05									#237
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skorbism's "This is NOT me" link is funnier.

Intel on foreign troops is never a bad idea. Is now the right time to ask?

Perhaps once they get their precious tech and are in a better mood we should ask. If we appear to be connecting the request for intel to the trading of tech we will end up in the same argument all over again (changing the terms of our agreement, we can't be trusted, blah blah blah blah)

Just a thought -- and I'm still laughing at images of skrobism collecting pretty flower print china pieces

	15-07-2005 01:16									#238
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THAT"S NOT ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I collect spoons. :P

	15-07-2005 01:18									#239
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We should send the tech. BOH feels they were crossed somehow by Eu. We don't want to cross them.

In the same email we make a request for AM intel d/t possible border disputes. I'm sure there will be a request for something by BOH.

	15-07-2005 02:59									#240
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THIS WAS NOT SENT. THIS IS A DRAFT.
--------------------------------
Kahn Paddy of the Mighty Horde,

Oh for shame! Your brothers the Bards?!?! And which ally is next?

We are sure that you had your reasons. Some percieved betrayal by the Bards, I suppose. For shame.

Babylon will be sending Fuedalism as discussed. We keep our word - not because of the caustic way you threaten and rant in your previous letters, nor because of that smile as sharp as a scimitar in your latest, but because Babylon is true to it's allies. And how do you treat yours? Sharply, at the end of a sword! What of the Music? For shame!

Kahn Paddy our nations have been friends, nay family for many years now. Please send us assurance that this is still true. Our nation continues to build and study. The Morporkians and Babylonians share a border. The Horde has a ROP and thus an eagle's eye view of the Morporkian Lands. Be a good brother and send us maps (nice screenies) of their lands. We do not wish them ill, but are unsure of their feelings towards us. We would feel better knowing of troop and city placements.

We await an explanation of your behavior towards your ally the Bards. Be assured Horde, Babylon wishes to continue to grow together in peace.

For Honor! For Love!
-Skrobism
Vox Inannum
Babylonian Minister of Horde Affairs
-------------------------------------------

Please read, discuss, edit and send. I will be unable to send it tonight. Won't be back online 'til tomorrow.