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E_T
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Orlando, Florida
Mar 2001
time: 00:33
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BoH has been planning this Phoney War for a while, I would guess.
Reasons:
Euph is their only real competition, with both having Fast Mover UU's at Chivalry. Take them out and they are fairly sure of winning, if they can keep everyone else at each other's throats.
DR was an excuse, to lure Euph main army out for destruction. I wouldn't be surprised if they have been planning this with DR for a while. BoH suckered Euph with talk of Honor and such. Because of Paddy's PBEM reputation, they trusted him, even though he wasn't BoH, just their leader.
And remember, they are playing this up, and they are a concuring Civ, no doubt. If it requires them to Backstab their allies, then that is what they will do, to get to the position that they are close to right now.
But they made a fatal Mistake. They should have waited 1 more turn. It's likely, that they were working with DR and wanting our Free Tech to trade with DR for their own (if different), but they screwed themselveswith this move.
What we need is an All Civ Alliance, to wipe them from the face of the Planet.
Euph is doomed, as they lost their Iron and Have no Horses. Then it will be 4 against 1, of is it 3 against 2?
We can only hope that DR isn't working with them, but I really doubt it.
E_T
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Beta
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Prowling in a PBEM near you!
Nov 2002
time: 00:33
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Shogun and I are in a chat with Paddy and Plato. 1st part of the chat - and sofar it all lloks like BS.
plato_civ@bellsouth.net says:
Greetings Great Lord!
Beta says:
Greeting Plato.
PLATO says:
Thanks for joining me. I am sure you have many questions
Beta says:
Indeed.
Beta says:
I trust all is well with Blood Oath horde.
PLATO says:
May I ask the Khan to join us so that we can fully answer all?
Beta says:
please do
PLATO says:
Yes, The Horde is very well. Thank You and Babylon?
Paddy has been added to the conversation.
Beta says:
Just fine, thank you.
Beta says:
Greetings Greta Khan.
Beta says:
Great
PLATO says:
We honour the sacrifices that your great people have made this few years past. The Horde offers its thanks and condolences to the families of the fallen
Beta says:
Beta nods.
Paddy says:
Hello Beta
Beta says:
Greetings Khan Paddy.
Beta says:
So, an intersting day.
Paddy says:
Indeed
PLATO says:
Yes, a very interesting, sad and necessary day.
Paddy says:
Beta, Shogun Gunner would like to join, can you do that?
Beta says:
Why necessary?
Beta says:
Yes - indeed
Paddy says:
he asked too
Beta says:
brb
Beta says:
back
Beta says:
everyone still here?
PLATO says:
We welcome your return.
PLATO says:
Lord Beta, May we have this as an official chat?
Beta says:
It is late here - I only have 10 minutes or so.
Beta says:
But yes - it can be offical.
Paddy says:
really?
Paddy says:
hahaha
Paddy says:
you getting old on us suddenly
PLATO says:
Lord Beta It is a sad turn of events that we have uncovered. It appears that there was treachery in the works
Michael Gunner Nelson has been added to the conversation.
Beta says:
I'm listening.
Paddy says:
what do you want to know about Beta
Beta says:
Greetings Shogun.
PLATO says:
We have many people in our Auditor General's staff that keep track of these things...
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
Hi Beta...Thank you
PLATO says:
It is clear that there was subterfuge against the Horde in the works.
PLATO says:
It appears that this TNA was really a 2NA.
PLATO says:
The Brave Babylonians coming to battle as the Euphoricans ran to prepare their treachery will be long remembered by the Horde
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
Can you tell us what treachery that was....?
Paddy says:
Beta, we discovered a plot, a situation that the Bards were given ample opportunioty to explain
Beta says:
????
Paddy says:
all of the intimate details will be clearly and openly tabled in the war in the east thread
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Shogun Gunner
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Potomac Falls, Virginia
Oct 2000
time: 00:33
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quote:
Beta says:
I'm listening.
Paddy says:
what do you want to know about Beta
Beta says:
Greetings Shogun.
PLATO says:
We have many people in our Auditor General's staff that keep track of these things...
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
Hi Beta...Thank you
PLATO says:
It is clear that there was subterfuge against the Horde in the works.
PLATO says:
It appears that this TNA was really a 2NA.
PLATO says:
The Brave Babylonians coming to battle as the Euphoricans ran to prepare their treachery will be long remembered by the Horde
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
Can you tell us what treachery that was....?
Paddy says:
Beta, we discovered a plot, a situation that the Bards were given ample opportunioty to explain
Beta says:
????
Paddy says:
all of the intimate details will be clearly and openly tabled in the war in the east thread
Paddy says:
at this time, I tell you that the Bards have led an interesting trail to the war that you and I are in with DR
PLATO says:
It was certainly a dark and sad day when this was revealed to all the Horde.
Paddy says:
The Horde is open about the fact we have been betrayed
yet at this time the Bards have chosen to remain silent
They have been contacted by us directly through email and msn
as well as all of the posts in the public foirum
Paddy says:
I understand that you would be quite concerned over this change of situation
Beta says:
indeed
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
yes
Paddy says:
and I understand that details would be so so required
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
yes
Paddy says:
in this I ask your patience
Beta says:
Until the bards are destroyed???
Paddy says:
We have chosen to not allow the Bards to continue in their betrayal.
Paddy says:
We have hit ONE town
Beta says:
But you no doubt have caught them by surprsie.
Paddy says:
I have more than enough troops available to have hit far more in an intial atatck
PLATO says:
Beta, we certainly had the capacity to take more than one city last turn
Beta says:
And I do believe that town contained a certain resource.
Paddy says:
There treachery caught us by surprise as well.
Paddy says:
yes it did, iron and furs.
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
very lucrative for you all
Paddy says:
that is easy to see on the posts on the public thread
Paddy says:
thank you.
Beta says:
So - in a nutshell- what was the treachery?
Paddy says:
that will be revealed in Open Thread when the Bards come out.
Paddy says:
We are not attacking you, nor are we threatening you.
Beta says:
Thank you.
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
are still carrying the fight to DR?
Paddy says:
We have a major issue with a Notion that claimed loudly to be our allies.
Paddy says:
The war with the Desolation Row is still current.
PLATO says:
Your alliance with us has been fairly done and we are not turning against the alliance. The truth is...the Bards were secretly going to turn on us.
Beta says:
oh???
Paddy says:
A sad circumstance
Beta says:
How so, and with whom?
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
and should we be concerned...since you can't share details... can you tell us that?
Paddy says:
Please, you ask what we have explained will be revealed in Open Thread
Beta says:
soon?
Paddy says:
You are save from their treachery
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
okay
Paddy says:
they have to come through us to get to you now, if that was ever their mission
Beta says:
Yes - euphorica was quite a threat to us.
PLATO says:
Lord Shogun Gunner, Please understand the need for timing in this. We would most certainly notify our faithful allies of an imminent treachery against you
Paddy says:
I do not beleive that they were Beta
Beta says:
Nor do I.
Paddy says:
Yet we believe we were / are
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
It seems that are both implying that Euphoria is acting on their own, they have not brought others into this "treachery"
Beta says:
But you believe that they were a a threat to you.
Paddy says:
We have "no" evidence of others involved
Beta says:
Or is it merely a pretext for your surprise attack.
PLATO says:
We have no evidence that any other nation is involved
Paddy says:
Beta, why say we have evidence, then not have it.
PLATO says:
Lord Beta, The Horde is honourable
PLATO says:
We have trusted each other for centuries
PLATO says:
We would not betray an allie
Beta says:
sorry that should have been pretense. (gammar is the first to go)
PLATO says:
This is treachery most foul
Beta says:
So - when do we hear what the treachery is - how soon will you be posting?
Paddy says:
We will post as the time becomes correct
Paddy says:
do you have a massive need
PLATO says:
We would not have broken this alliance of three nations when it was on the verge of victory if not for the cold feel of steel in our own back
Paddy says:
Beta, may I ask the reason you need the evidence this day?
Beta says:
yes - we do have a need. This was an alliance of three nations.
Beta says:
And now two are at war.
Paddy says:
and we are have Honoured you in that.
Paddy says:
do you not trust our word?
Beta says:
The third nation should be given the courtesy of the rationale, IMHO.
PLATO says:
Lord beta, do you trust the word of the Horde?
Beta says:
To be honest - not sure at this point of time.
Paddy says:
can you show where we have lied to you
or not met an agreement?
Beta says:
Actions speak louder than words - and your actions of this turn - well they leave many a wondering.
Paddy says:
hahaha
PLATO says:
We have been faithful in all our dealings with you. Fear not...we will be faithful in providing this explanation
Beta says:
Then we will wait for the explanantion.
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
I hope this evidence is clear cut in what it shows
PLATO says:
We simply ask patience...as you have asked it of us before
Paddy says:
are we on trial by Babylon?
Beta says:
Not in the least.
Paddy says:
really?
Beta says:
We are neither jufge nor jury.
Paddy says:
certainly comes acricross that way
Beta says:
Just tryiong to make our way in a turbulent world.
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
its just a difficult set of circumstances
Beta says:
exactly
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
my apologies if my questions are too direct
Paddy says:
they are welcome
Beta says:
and mine too
Beta says:
So - we await your explanation.
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
yes, no immediate harm I suppose
Beta says:
And this ambassador is heading to bed.
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
lol
Paddy says:
well we would like you to know that there be peace between our peoples
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
thank you. that is good news
PLATO says:
The Horde revels in your trust and patience and the friendship of our people
Paddy says:
Please know that the Horde stands as one.
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
Shogun Gunner bows deeply in respect
Beta says:
Good night my lords.
Michael Gunner Nelson says:
l8r
Beta says:
Honour to all.
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E_T
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Orlando, Florida
Mar 2001
time: 00:33
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And if you beleave that, I've got some land not too far south of me (called the Everglades, catchy name, you agree??) that I would like to sell you.
I think that their trumped up charges are going to be posted AFTER we have sent them Feudalism.
So, can we trust them??? About as far as I can thow that Temple over there.....
Let's do this, we say that we sent them the tech, accepted. As Kloreep isn't going to be here to play the save, we get someone else (not me) to play the save. I'll be too busy with ISDG things to take the time. When they only get it back, but still not accepted, we make the excuse that the turnplayer reported in our turnthread that they did, but they had also said that they had a power glictch (or something, maybe child/pet somehow screwed up their computer, they had to reboot, reload and rush through it, so they must have screwed it up.
Or we say, if they haven't posted their evidence, that we decided to wait until we have seen the full evidence and our Democratic team had time to consider that evidence. We can say, that we still have it on the table (and we will, just not accepted) awaiting that evidence. We can also say, that we also didn't send Feudalism to Euph, again, to see what the evedence was. If there has been 'such a betrayal' by Euph, why shuld we help them? But we would need to see that evidence, before we made any move at all.
We need to ask Euph if they can wait one turn, I really don't think they will be going into Anarchy and they don't have any way to upgrade anything, so they really don't need it now.
E_T
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Kloreep
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of the pillow
Jun 2002
time: 00:33
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quote:
Originally posted by E_T
Or we say, if they haven't posted their evidence, that we decided to wait until we have seen the full evidence and our Democratic team had time to consider that evidence. We can say, that we still have it on the table (and we will, just not accepted) awaiting that evidence. We can also say, that we also didn't send Feudalism to Euph, again, to see what the evedence was. If there has been 'such a betrayal' by Euph, why shuld we help them? But we would need to see that evidence, before we made any move at all. |
quote:
We need to ask Euph if they can wait one turn, I really don't think they will be going into Anarchy and they don't have any way to upgrade anything, so they really don't need it now.
E_T |
Indeed, Euphorica can wait if they've lost their iron.
Or, worse comes to worse, we get their agreement not to accept Feud until they have iron back under their control.
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skrobism
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instead of sending unaccepted why not delay the turn a bit. wait... request details again... if we get none send unaccepted.
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skrobism
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BTW - I think I told you what you spent time digging for in that official chat.
here
I am sure that BOH will come up some trumped up charges that Eu had a secret army or something. They already hinted at that in your chat last night. Might have already posted that in public. I have not checked. Before we go burning this bridge (which would be fair) I want those AM screenies.
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Shogun Gunner
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Potomac Falls, Virginia
Oct 2000
time: 00:33
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Paddy's explanation via email, yes it's BS, but it's the official record from our "friends"
quote:
Greetings Babylon
I understand that your Nation holds myself and the Horde in contempt, that much certainly is evident.
I also understand that you require an explanation of the reasons we have attacked the Bards.
I am sorry that the other night I frustrated the chats with Beta and Shogun, we had hoped that we were to be able to give our points that night to the Bards, as we felt we owed them first explanation, and thus between Plato and I let you know as well. My fault, as Bards chat kept failing due to their being a tad upset at me. I am sure you know that feeling, I have received enough dirty emails and posts from certain people this week.
So what has been happening... in our recent history, in the last turns...
The Horde Army Group East was moving towards Antioch, consisting:
"Army Group East"
Cavalry
Bongolian Royal Red Guards (horseman 4/4)
13th Horse Guards (horseman 4/4)
Red Roughrider (horseman 4/4)
Fire Hoof (horseman 4/4)
Infantry
Col. Iron Jackson's Long Blades (swords 4/4)
Col. Earthworm's Devourer of Light (swords 4/4)
Col. Rubychaser's Wanderers (swords 3/3)
Cardial Crusher (swords 4/4)
Hammerhead (swords 3/3)
Scarface (swords 4/4)
Col. Gramps Far Striker (archer 4/4)
Bloodshaft (archer 4/4)
Miss Watcher (spearwoman 3/3)
Redwench (spearwoman 4/4)
Hot Lips (spearwoman 4/4)
Horde Long Eyes (scout)
"The Black Watch Brigade"
Khan's Own Faithfuls (horseman 4/4)
Col. Dialectic's Black Lightning (horseman 5/5)
Col. Plato's Soothsayer's Savages (horseman 5/5)
Col. Makahlua's Eingana Princesses (horsewoman 4/4)
Storm Hoof (horseman 5/5)
We knew we were to face loosing many of these in the taking of Antioch, which was on a hill and we were regularly informed by DR, and later backed up by intell, that there were walls. So in this we knew reinforcements would be needed. We put together three groups, the first being:
"The Flying Column" -
First Horse of the Apocalypse (ancient cavalry 5/5)
Second Horse of the Apocalypse (ancient cavalry 5/5)
Col. Rcoutme's Royal Racers (horseman 4/4)
Shadow of Doubt (horseman 4/4)
Stormbringer (horsewoman 3/4)
We also had several Infantry Regiments that were heading out, and through production more fast movers (horsemen) as well. These reinforcements would have brought us to 35 units in theatre, all but stripping our Homelands. Yet keeping Army Group East well fuelled for any back lash from DR.
The goal was to march these units down the common road, into Bardlands, then down through the ruins of Sidon into Antioch. The only thing that could slow them down were 2 tiles that were not roaded.
Understanding that our nation is highly geared to unit production - thus 35 units. So we did not have a lot of "workers", net alone any near the Bard lands etc. So in one of my many chats with my allies the Bards, I provided them with an update of what was going on, including the information of above. I then asked for an update of their situation, i.e. how many units did they have, and when they would be committing another force, and then I asked if they could please provide workers to road the 2 tiles to complete the war road into DR. Thus allowing our troops to get their so so much faster, as I am sure you would understand.
Please I digress here for a moment. It must be explained that Army Group East was never formed as an attack force. It was put together to defend the Bardlands, as they had marched their Stack of Doom off to fight the Desolators. In this telling us 1st that they did not need our help, then 2nd asking us to move troops in as defence. Then once sitting in defence they then needed us to counter their attack. This whole operation never started as a coordinated war plan. If that was the case we would have had several cats produced, and a crew of workers along. Just had to mention that.
So here I am requesting workers to road 2 tiles, and a situation report I got comments as:
(These are pieces from the chat)
it seems we're done (EU)
I don't think we have any workers available at the moment
Dear ally, I think we've been sticking out our necks more than enough
When BOH takes out Antioch and Babs take out Aquarius, the main battles have been fought
You know what we've lost... and there was a specific reason for you to first move into our homelands,.... as we went with all we had
You want us to attack with 3 wounded swordsmen?
We have been foccussing war 100% and need some time to retreat, heal and grow
we're not able to commit too many forces. LEaving home with the units we still have doesn't seem to feel all that good
summary:
BOH moves units through our lands and request some more roading to facilitate.
BOH is fighting war
EU is retreating and thinking of changing the focus from war to growth
I came away bewildered. I asked for 2 tiles to be roaded, and a situation report, yet I had all of this other information. Something's here just did not add up at all. Maybe I worked in pubs too many years, maybe I was just shocked that they were finished after all their statements... and we were committing 35 units to a war that they had rushed into.... something started to twitch.
Here the Horde invested some gold and investigated their allies. An act Snoop feels is a gross act against such a strong allie. An act that found us looking at 5 veteran swords, 1 veteran spearman, and 3 catapults, in a city where they had almost completed a granary.
A great attack force, would have been fantastic in the DR war, just being there, anywhere, just threatening a road tile would have been great, anything... But no, these lads are all tucked up all nice and well - hidden.
Here the Horde went quiet. We met in discussions.... WHY? and how do we handle this?
It was decided, whether right or wrong, that we would give the Bards further opportunities to tell us of these troops. We would not openly confront them, but allow them to come forth with the information. They did not share any such information at any time when we placed opportunities there.
Another issue that was arising in Hordeland then was if they are not telling us of these "hidden" troops, when we have given all details of ours, as listed above, then what were they planning.... We did not like what we came up with. Paranoia ruled the day  sadly.
If we were committing our 35 units in a far off war, that we really had to get to through another nation, then what of our homelands. What was going on? Our final conclusion, whether right or wrong, was that they would strike us when we had been weakened and our forces to far away to get home. We know only to well that the lands to the east of our capital are open for a horse charge, and the SoZ is a tempting target.
And again we allowed our allies chances, and nothing on the "hidden" troops.
Thus we took their iron source from them.
I have here provided you with a great deal of the information. There certainly is more, but here you have the crux of the matter.
We believed we were being conned, an ancient of cons but a great one. You tell enough truths and give enough courage, add in some sacrifice, then the target never sees the great lie, the sting, the Con. We feel that the Bards worked closely with us through the 1st age, all nations have come to the new era together very conveniently. Thus a lot of truths were told. They committed to the TNA - courage. They even were already on their way to fight DR alone when the initial TNA Summit took place - great courage. They lost those troops - sacrifice. More years passed and cooperation between Horde and Bards very close - many truths. Then they marched there Stack of Doom of to fight DR - more courage, yet again no coordination - confusing. They then called for us to muster in their lands as a defence shield - courage to allow that when there were empty cities all around my troops - great trust given. Then they called my mustered troops to come fight DR. Next the Stack of Doom attacked DR, getting mauled - Great Sacrifice. Here the Horde were enraged, and thus started stripping our Homelands to get reinforcements to the war, and our Army Group East manoeuvred and coordinated with you for some telling blows against DR.
Thus the sting would have been when we were smashing our forces against the Desolators behind their walls, and the Bards could take into our Homelands.
Their statements and their hidden force and granary build sure spoke volumes to us.
Thus why we are now at WAR with our former allie.
Please know that the Horde is saddened by the losses of your Mighty and Noble Horse Regiments. Regiments that I personally pleaded for, and often wrote to you asking for, well you got the emails from me on that. I had thought at the time the common goal, was the removal of the Desolators, and yes that was the goal of the TNA. Yet behind the TNA we found the above.
I would like to find a way to assist the families of those departed, and to make some gesture to your Nation and people for the costs and sacrifices for the loss of these troops. I have spent some considerable amount of time trying to work out a way to help, and I stumble with it. So I look to your wise people to guide me in this.
I again state that I know your nation is un happy with me and the Horde. I am not here to change your opinions of me. You may choose to continue with this, that be your decision. I would hope that we could start to mend the many wounds I personally have caused between our peoples. I am willing to try.
Yet in all this my nation is at war with the Bards at the moment, and just may have a peace with the Desolators. (I say may, as the turn is along way from coming back to us to see to that matter). So as I now have a strange situation of wars all over the shop. I need to make two statements to your leadership. These are not said with malice, just simple fact, as I am at war.
- Your trade of the technology, please understand that if you again do not complete this trade deal, that we will consider that as an act of WAR. Simple and clear.
- Your unit, Cain (warrior 3/3), please understand that if he moves onto the road between Bloodview and Fort Napster (yes the tile next to him) that we will consider that as an act of WAR. Simple and clear.
In so many ways I apologise for those statements, yet so to either of those actions will cost my nation dearly. So please consider them
It is my hope that we can get through all of this and grow and be happy.
Paddy, Khan of the Blood Oath Horde
On a more personal matter, I do ask that if any of your nation who do not like me, suck it up, move on, you have no need to send filth emails to my home where my children can access them. You may not like my actions in this game, but this is a game.
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Is someone really sending personal insults to Paddy over email?
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scaeva
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I agree that most of that letter was a load of BS. However, I believe we ought to complete our scientific deal, and appease the Horde. If only as a stop gap to delay any hostile action on their part. I'd type more, however, I have to get off right now.
Praise Inanna,
Scaeva
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15-07-2005 03:55
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