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chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Ted Striker
Who exactly was "saying" this? |
Moi.
I think Sandman's statement, "It's not an election year, and it's not a key state?" is part of it. We are also better prepared for hurricanes. When one is expected to strike, the whole state government goes into crisis mode, sets up a war room, and gets **** done. My grudging respect for Jeb increased last year. I think part of it has to do with the Bushes' father's fubar in Homestead, FL 13 years ago, and not wanting to be seen as similarly incompetent (too late George!). I have heard rumors, but have not seen substantion, that the LA gov waited to call for Federal assistance. That would similarly hamper FEMA's effectiveness, though they should have been prepared to move regardless.
Without a doubt, the government of LA and NO bear the preponderence of guilt for the catastrophe. The Feds, however, should have been ready to come in the moment they were called. As soon as the governor made the phone call, there should have been FEMA agents in the air with food and water on the way.
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chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Gatekeeper
Hmm. Everything I've read indicates that New Orleans was struck by a Category 4 hurricane that had previously been a Category 5 storm (it was weakened a bit by a puff of dry air coming in from the Upper Midwest). |
A storm is not one giant entity. The center of the storm is the strongest part, and the winds diminish the further out you go. When Katrina made landfall in LA, it was definately a Cat 4. The distance from the center, plus the fact that the winds there were moving in the opposite direction from the direction of the storm mean that NOLA only got 100mph winds while Biloxi and Gulfport got up to 130mph winds. That's Cat 2 on the Saffir-Simpson Scale in NOLA.
Wind and geography conspired against the Gulf Coast in terms of storm surge. With the winds blowing from the Southeast, water piled up in the Mississippi Sound and Lake Bourgone (which isn't a real lake) with no way out, so the water just kept piling up. Then with the low pressure center passed over, it sucked the water up even higher. This is what destroyed the Mississippi coast.
Now, some of that water probably flooded up from Lake Bourgone overland towards Lake Ponchetrain. That would put a lot of stress on the lake side levees. In addition, you have all that rainwater flowing south into the lake. More analysis will need to be done, but there is some thought that it may be the 17th St Canal levee wasn't topped. It just broke.
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Adam Smith
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Maryland, USA
Jan 1970
time: 00:33
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techumseh:
Nice job of quoting me out of context in your sig, since we were talking about the Corps of Engineers, not the entire situation.
Molly:
Ditto for you.
Ted:
Please see the link in my 23:42 post. There is not one mention in there of upgrading the levies to handle a Category IV or V, which was clearly the most pressing problem. edit: In addition, money wasted elsewhere is money not spent in New Orleans.
Last edited by Adam Smith on 05-09-2005 at 19:49
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DanS
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Kickball Capital of the World
Jan 1970
time: 00:33
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I'm trying hard not to blame the victims here. I've come to find that it's human nature to blame the victims. No different than thousands of years ago.
On the other hand, I don't think we should blame the feds just because we are disinclined to blame everybody else. I think that 99% of the damage and lives lost was not related to the federal response. It is true that the remaining 1% contained a lot of disgraceful headlines, however. Likewise, I think the locals shifting blame to the federal government is out of line. Some of them are (understandably) acting hysterical under the strain of it all.
Last edited by DanS on 05-09-2005 at 23:53
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Boris Godunov
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Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:33
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quote:
Washington, too, was slow to react to the crisis. The Pentagon, under Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, was reluctant for the military to take a lead role in disaster relief, a job traditionally performed by FEMA and by the National Guard, which is commanded by state governors. President Bush could have "federalized" the National Guard in an instant. That's what his father, President George H.W. Bush, did after the Los Angeles riots in 1992. Back then, the Justice Department sent Robert Mueller, a jut-jawed ex-Marine (who is now FBI director), to take charge, showing, in effect, that the cavalry had arrived. FEMA's current head, Michael Brown, has appeared over his head and even a little clueless in news interviews. He is far from the sort of take-charge presence New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani conveyed after 9/11.
Up to now, the Bush administration has not hesitated to sweep aside the opinions of lawyers on such matters as prisoners' rights. But after Katrina, a strange paralysis set in. For days, Bush's top advisers argued over legal niceties about who was in charge, according to three White House officials who declined to be identified because of the sensitivity of the negotiations. Beginning early in the week, Justice Department lawyers presented arguments for federalizing the Guard, but Defense Department lawyers fretted about untrained 19-year-olds trying to enforce local laws, according to a senior law-enforcement official who requested anonymity citing the delicate nature of the discussions.
While Washington debated, the situation in New Orleans and along the Gulf Coast deteriorated. Bush traveled to the region in part to work out a deal with local officials to establish a clearer chain of command. By the weekend, federal officials said there could be tens of thousands of troops in New Orleans in short order. Saturday, Bush pledged to return to the region on Monday—and to deploy 7,000 additional active-duty troops under the Pentagon's control. But for many, the help was arriving too late. Officials worked through the weekend trying to hammer out the jurisdictional issues.
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9179587/page/5/
Infuriating. Unbelievably infuriating.
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Jon Miller
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and where do you get this from?
even 100 lives (while small compared to the total that lived in New Orleans) is too many
and I could well beleive 1000s..
and that is as many as Al Queda killed in 9/11
Jon Miller
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DanS
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Kickball Capital of the World
Jan 1970
time: 00:33
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quote:
and where do you get this from? |
It's a SWAG. I'm guessing that 10,000 to 20,000 people died -- we can go through the backup for this guess. The vast majority of those who died, and an even greater portion of the property damage (i.e., the destruction of New Orleans, the topic of this thread), was caused by the (1) levee breaches; and (2) the inadequate pre-storm evacuation. A lot of ugly stuff happened afterward, don't get me wrong. But if everybody would have been Johnny on the Spot after the levee breeches, the general scope of the loss of life and property would be very similar. I'm keeping in mind the fact that search and rescue teams seem to have done well, considering the circumstances.
Last edited by DanS on 06-09-2005 at 05:06
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Jack_www
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If the death toll goes over 3,000 it will be the worst disaster in history. The worst right now is 1906 San San Francisco earthquake where 3,000 died, and of course the 9-11 attacks. I am not happy with both the state and federal response to this diaster. It seems like we have clueless idiots running DHS and FEMA. After seing the chaos of New Orleans I am going to always make sure I have 5 days worth of food and water and my own evcuation plan in case I have to. I just hope the government can change its ways before the next disaster or terror attack.
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Guynemer
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1900 Galveston hurricane killed 6000-12000.
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Jack_www
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Sorry It was my misstake.
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Jack_www
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I am just hoping the the estimated death toll of 10,000 will be lower in the end. We wont know untill they can search house to house because they said a lot of people who started got trapped in their houses. Anther thing I dont really understain is the people who still are staying in New Orleans that dont want to leave their houses. I can under stand the people with pets who dont want to leave them behind, but if I had a pet I would hike out of the city if I had to with my pet, not just sit there. But that is me.
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BlackCat
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quote:
Originally posted by Sikander
If only your capabilities and usefulness as a poster were a tenth of his. |
Quite agree, a MOBIOS posting doesn't reach the quality of a Ned posting. Ned at least made some kind of sense when he argued. He even bothered to find and supply links that could support him.
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05-09-2005 16:57
Which cave have you been living in?
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