03-10-2003 01:29									#91
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Hmm. I don't remember, but there's something in the help file about it (The exsact text is "At the moment we are not sure what the meaning of the Last Block is. It appears to have something to do with the Tile-graphics used for large areas of the same terrain type.") , so someone must have told me.

I'll have to look at it, but you are probably right.

	03-10-2003 02:41									#92
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Just spent som time playing with the last block. At first it seemd prommising. I saved a full ocean map, with one large patch of plains, exited CTP2 changed the last block and reloaded the map, this resulted in different placements of the different plains tiles.

Then just to se what would happen I loaded the map, without altering the .til file, and got a different combination of plains tiles. I then did a couple of maploads without exiting CTP2 and got the same result.

I then deleted all the last blocks from the tile-file, and repeated the multiple mapload, and again I got different combinations of plains tiles.

Finaly I painted large swaths of all the different terrains, and they all used a number of different tiles.

My conclusion is: The last-block might or might not have something to do with the distribution of the different versions of the same terrain.

I also did a quick check of the last blocks in the tile-file there are 13 of them and they all follow the same pattern:

(Number of sets : patern)
5 : 02 ## 01 ##
5 : 03 ## 02 ##
5 : 03 ## 02 ##
4 : 03 ## 02 ##
3 : 04 ## 02 ##
3 : 04 ## 02 ##
5 : 04 ## 02 ##
5 : 04 ## 02 ##
4 : 05 ## 03 ##
5 : 07 ## 04 ##
3 : 07 ## 04 ##
5 : 08 ## 05 ##
3 : 08 ## 05 ##

Where ## is a hex number

The first ## within a given last block is a sequence ie. A8, A9, AA, AB, AC, while the second is not. The second ## within the same block is within a few numbers of each other, ie. 80, 82, 83, 82, 83.

	03-10-2003 20:09									#93
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Do you remember the image I did as I replaced the green hills with my purple hills? I got also a set of green hill tiles on my purple hills. There are also other set of terrain tiles that can't be explained by the tile rhules. So here is my suggestion use a terrain.txt in that every terrain uses the TilesetIndex. In my therory you will see other terrains on the map then, too. Then you can play around with the tile file. Well when I have time I will test it myself, so in the meantime here is a preprepared terrain.txt.

-Martin

http://apolyton.net/forums/attachment.php?postid=448614

Attachment: terrain.zip
This has been downloaded 2 time(s).

	03-10-2003 21:06									#94
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I just updatetd TileEdit. So now the current version is 1.0.0.26

Changes from V.1.0.0.25

• Added automatic cutout of borders for tiles.
  
• Added register .til-file with TileEdit.
  
• Added a scrollable list of the apropriate resource to the Add/Edit Dialog.
  
• Added Reset .ini-file. (and optimized the .ini-file usage).
  
• ZoomFactor is now saved to the ini-file.
  
• Background and Shadow colors are now saved to the ini-file.
  
• Fixed a few bugs on the options page.
  
• Fixed iport of Tiles in InGame-Color-Mode, so the colors displayd are now correct.
  
• Fixed a size bug for the Add/Edit and Options Dialogs, I saved and loaded the sizes and not only the possitions to/from the ini-file.
  

	03-10-2003 21:15									#95
	Increase Your PM Length

As for the Last Block I do not have the time at the pressent to pusue that, so if somone do, please try to make some sense out of it. Or try locating some of the former CTP-staff and se if they can help.

	04-10-2003 00:42									#96
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i did some research and it is promising i have found out loads

what i did was to replace some elements of the last block what i did was to leave the first section of each last block column but on one line a coped and pasted the last hen number form one up the column the result was that i got mountings sprouting up randomly in the deep water as for the meaning of the hex number i am stuck

	04-10-2003 02:28									#97
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What was that hex number? the one you pasted in? Well I guess it would also be interresting to know the one you replaced as well.

Reading your post made me think about the numbers. I have been thinking of them as either DWords (4 byte) or Bytes, not as pairs of words or as a word and two bytes.

The first LastBlock is:
02A8 0180
02A9 0182
02AA 0183
02AB 0182
02AC 0183

Or in plain numbers (two Word)
680 384
681 386
682 387
683 386
684 387

And as Word, Byte, Byte
680 1 128
681 1 130
682 1 131
683 1 130
684 1 131

Does this have something to do with swamps as 680-684 are TileSetID for swamp or ?????

If the first Word is a TileSetIndex they all have somthing in comon: The tiles they refer to does not fit any TileRule.
The only other tiles that does not have a matching TileRule are the ##99 tiles (the one used where there are no matchin borders) four ##04 and the one with TileSetID 2205

I have attached a text document with the last blocks of the original Activision TileFile. (makes it easier to match them with the TileSetID's) I have made three sets of colums the first is in Hex the the last two in Decimal. The first deimal colum is Word Word, the second is Word Byte Byte.

I love the power of RAD

Attachment: lastblock.txt
This has been downloaded 1 time(s).

	04-10-2003 02:42									#98
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yes if you change them you should get the other tile in the place

	04-10-2003 02:48									#99
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You meen if I change 02A8 in the first LastBlock to say 0772 I'd get desert mountains in stead of swamps in some places?

	04-10-2003 02:56									#100
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Yes I know sound funny doesn’t it

But this is also a clue it means that some were in the code or the other section of number (or numbers) there is some kind of marker that says were it belongs but if activsion were going to put it in the source code it would be stupid to include a last block at all

Here is the last block with the representative terrain types at the side may be help full

5 02A80180 02A90182 02AA0183 02AB0182 02AC0183 // marsh
5 03290200 032A0201 032B0204 032C0201 032D0202 //mountain
4 03250200 03260202 03270202 03280202 //mountain
4 03870240 03880242 03890241 038A0242 //hill
3 04380280 04390282 043A0282 //shalow ocean
3 043B0280 043C0283 043D0283 //shallow ocean
5 04A102C0 04A202C2 04A302C3 04A402C2 04A502C2 //deep ocean
5 049C02C0 049D02C1 049E02C2 049F02C3 04A002C2 //deep ocean pit
4 05C80380 05C90382 05CA0382 05CB0382 //continental shelf
5 077204C0 077304C2 077404C3 077504C2 077604C1 //desert mountings
3 077704C0 077804C1 077904C1 //desert mountings
5 083A0540 083B0542 083C0543 083D0542 083E0541 //white mountings
3 083F0540 08400541 08410541 //white mountings

	04-10-2003 03:05									#101
	Support Apolyton

quote: but if activsion were going to put it in the source code it would be stupid to include a last block at all

Well dosn't mean they didn't do it. The sprites has loads of stuff that is required for the makespr program to work, but was never actually used by the game engine.

Now I'll have to look into it But it'l have to wait till I get that Sprite Editor up and running.

	04-10-2003 14:38									#102
	Inflate your Upload Space

Just found out why I couldn't replicate your findings befor. It appears that the LastBlock is only used when the map generator crates a map, not when you do it by hand in the editor or load a saved map. Actualy the tiles placed using the last block are removed when loading a saved map within the editor.

This will complicate matters a bit, but now that I know it I have a chance of finding out what's going on.

	04-10-2003 15:09									#103
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I also found something interesting the unknown section also appears to be directional i got to do more testing but if I am right I could be on to something

	06-10-2003 00:10									#104
	Increase Your PM Length

scrap that

this however is realy cool if you chang the number 3 to a 5 in the deep sea pit you get the tile apering on hills

it also works if you copy the last block to make 14 lastblocks

	06-10-2003 04:16									#105
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Thanks Mc.

You pointed me in the right direction with that deep-sea-pit, first I played around with the end values and noticed that they were indeed directional values. I then noticed that shallow water, TileSetIndex 10, was 028x while deep sea, TileSetIndex 11, was 02Ax. I then checked the other values an found out that if I treated the second Word as 4 octets (4bit) and not two bytes (8 bit) for all values the first 3 octets of were in deed 4 times the TileSetIndex.

The format is as follows:
bit value
( 0..15) First is the TileGraphicsID (as we have known for some time now)
(16..25) Then comes the TileSetIndex, as a 10 bit value!!!!! nope it's neither a word nor a byte value.
(26..31) And finally a 6 bit directional value

Who on earth thought that one up??????????? I mean why not use a byte for each of TileSetIndex (as in the TileID) and DirValue?

OK the positive side of it is that now I can create an interface for the LastBlock, and tile-artists can now create better looking terrain. And nobody else need to bother with the odd way of splitting a 16 bit Word, I'll let the interface handle that.

The change to "understanding the tile file.txt" is:
The sixth block: Variation rules
This is meant to create variations within large swaths of the same terrain types, most noticeable is the deep-sea pits scattered over the ocean floor.
Each Rule can have up to 5 elements, each consisting of a TileGraphicsID, a TileSetIndex and a directional value.
The Directional Value can be from 0 to 4, and is relative to the previous tile in the list.
0 = First
1 = North-West
2 = North-East
3 = South-East

Graphically it can be displayed as follows:

   1   2

     0 

   4   3

Graphics      TileSetIndex DirValue

 hex/deci

049C/1180     11                 0

049D/1181     11                 1

049E/1182     11                 2

049F/1183     11                 3

04A0/1184     11                 2

    2       2

1      3

    0

Last edited by Martin the Dane on 06-10-2003 at 11:51

	06-10-2003 11:52									#106
	Remove this text

The deppe-sea-pit image

Attachment: combined_deep_sea_pit.jpg
This has been downloaded 73 time(s).

	06-10-2003 12:08									#107
	Remove this text

And here is the same image with explanations:
The large number is the sequence in the LastBlock/VariationRule, the arrows and the little number beside it shows the DirectionalValue.

By the way, is VariationRule a logical new name for the LastBlock?

Attachment: combined_deep_sea_pit_i.jpg
This has been downloaded 73 time(s).

	06-10-2003 16:52									#108
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

yes martin I had just figured the directional rule out and was about to post it

I noticed that every first column started with a 0 and the deep continental shelf went 0 2 2 2 which was directional.

the VariationRule is solved so when can we see this integrated into tile edit

The randomisation of these tiles must be generated by the code based on how much terrain is the same around the selected tile this means we find the deep sea pit being rare because of all the volcanoes and continental shelf which get in the way as well as the other deep sea VariationRule

	06-10-2003 20:08									#109
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by The Big Mc the VariationRule is solved so when can we see this integrated into tile edit

Well, I don't know, but I'll be rather bussy the next couple of weeks, so unless I have to spend some time on a train, I doubt I'll have much time looking at it over the next two weeks.

But after that I'll have some evenings free again.

Martin

	08-10-2003 12:41									#110
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

what i still dont get is why actoscrap timesed the tile set index by 4

	08-10-2003 18:52									#111
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Well, the aswer to that is that they did not! they multiplied it by 64. (2^6)

The result is that they used 6 bit and not 8 for the directional value.

As to why, beats me, I see absolutely no sane reason for it, programingvise it's a pain in the lower backside of the bodey.

Last edited by Martin the Dane on 08-10-2003 at 19:14

	18-10-2003 22:23									#112
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OK here comes the new version of TileEdit, with full support for the VariationRules (formerly LastBlock) including a new and updated help file.

V.1.1.0.27 Date 18-10-2003

• LastBlock renamed to VariationRule, with a lot of help from Mc, I finally figured out what it was.
  
• Changed the TextEdit format of the Variation Rule property page.
  
• Added Graphical display for the Variation Rule.
  
• Updated the Help-file to reflect our new understanding of the Variation Rule.
  

Hopefully I have not introduced any major bugs

By the way if anyone wants to make a howto for the whole or a part of TileEdit please feel free to do so. I'll be happy to post them on my site.

Martin the Dane

	19-10-2003 01:07									#113
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

martin are the mounting variation rule suppose to look like that

	19-10-2003 12:31									#114
	Increase the size of your Attachments

As far as I can se: yes.

My reaction was the same as yours.

If you look at the sprites used, they all have a cutout-value of 9 (SE+SW) and are placed in a sequence of 0-1-4-1-2 witch is 0-NW-SW-NW-NE

This might explain why the the mountains look so ugly.

Attachment: var-rule1-game.jpg
This has been downloaded 47 time(s).

	19-10-2003 12:33									#115
	Tired of ads?

And here comes the same tiles as displayed in TileEdit

Attachment: var-rule1.jpg
This has been downloaded 47 time(s).

	19-10-2003 16:38									#116
	Remove this text

i was on about the tile edit view the top mounting seams to be over lapping the over lot

	19-10-2003 23:30									#117
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I think what happend is that they meant to let the lower tiles overlap as much on the NW and NE as the Northern-most tile, but since their tool is probably a non-graphical script-tool, no-one noticed.

And with the xx99 border system they use in CTP2 it's hard to notice on the map, even when you know what to look for. (The Civ:CTP tileset does not have this behavior in the variation-rules - they would have shown up as read and purple patches )

	29-10-2003 22:34									#118
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I'm not spamming your threads but I hoping if you get into the code on these tiles, that besides alot of the stuff your looking for like last block etc I hope there is someway to:

fix/explain the lower triangle overlap problem for the graphics.

why only one hill type shows up (atleast as I've seen)

and then all of big mc's questions.

thanks!

	30-10-2003 01:23									#119
	Increase the size of your Attachments

E martin solved the last block a few days ago

its called the variation rule

	30-10-2003 02:06									#120
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Don't be so moddest Mc

As for the triangle overlap problem. It is a random thing that apears with the original tile-files as well as the Tile-edit modified ones, and moving the affected part off-screen and then back sometimes fixes it, so it must be a glitcg in the graphical routeen not the tile-files.

I was trying to reproduce it just now, but it didn't appear with either the original or your tile-file.