25-01-2002 09:25									#211
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Qilue I don't mean to be negative here, but there's a minor problem relating to realism. Iroquois will not be able to build their UU and will probably be able to build knights by the time they do get a source of horses.

Vonotar; Can I assume you consider this a non-issue?

	25-01-2002 13:39									#212
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Qilue Vonotar; Can I assume you consider this a non-issue?

Firaxis's own civilopedia entry for the mounted warrior says that horses were only introduced to america in the 17th century. The fact that they picked the mounted warrior as the iroquios UU again proves that they never intended us to play on maps that were accurate or that had correct starting positions.

This issue has been boiling along for a while now, so lets try to resolve it. Do we.....

A - Give the Iroquois a horse resource on the site of there capital city

B - Change the Iroquois UU to something that doesn't require horses

C - Change the Iroquois altogether into either the Inca's or the Tupi (both south american) relieving the pressure of three Civ's in N. America

Cast your votes and reasons now folks, I'll tally the results 00:00 GMT Tuesday 29th

	25-01-2002 19:28									#213
	Iroquois Issue Get a bigger avatar today!

The Iroquois were woodland indians so it does not make sense to involve them with horses, a plains or step browser, anyway. I would go for replacement with the Inca.

	25-01-2002 19:38									#214
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

america never had horses spanish people brought them there

GREAT MAP!!!

	25-01-2002 23:00									#215
	Increase Your PM Length

South America really needs a civ, and the obvious choice is the Inca. Tho it might be best for gameplay (with historical start positions) to edit a european civ for this purpose.

	26-01-2002 20:03									#216
	Got spare money?

Marla,

First of all, this is a great map. I love the concentration of resources, forcing people to trade military (iron) resources for cultural/happiness resources (silk etc).

A couple of minor quibbles/suggestions:

1. Sea resources:

From modern times through to now these are still things nations argue over. Australia/Far South American Nations/Africa first major national product was the product of whales, with many North American Whalers involved as well. I think instead of been so heavy with Aluminium in Aust-NZ you could make it more profitable to be down under with some strongly concentrated whale stocks.

Also one of the major points of contention between Europe and North American Nations in modern times has been fishing rights in the North Atlantic, with confrontations between some Scandavian Nations with Canada and Iceland over fishing. So I was thinking that by been as judicous with the sea resources as you have been with the land resources we could have as balanced a sea as we do a land map .

2. North Africa:

From what I've played so far, the Southern Shore of the Mediterranean has been depicted fairly accurately as in modern times. In historical times Northern Africa has been much richer than present day. Carthage was a MAJOR Meditaerranean power, rivalling Rome, this was based on extensive forests and fertile plains in the North of Africa. Only in the recent times has the coastal regions of North Africa become part of the Sahara desert.

	29-01-2002 06:06									#217
	Iroquois UU Full PM-box? Change here!

i guess.. for this map, you could make the Iroquois UU a swordsmen unit with increased movement?? i dont know if that would be too powerful as those increased movement units tend to run rampant. maybe you could make it a swordsmen unit that costs 50% less shields... all you need then would be a cool graphic.. lol

	29-01-2002 13:27									#218
	Remove this text

Genia: Yes... but America didn't have Americans until the English brought them.

I'm playing with an older version of the map, so I don't know if this has been changed, but a big problem I had was that all of the Saltpeter in North America is clustered around the Aztec's start.

I tried switching the Iroquois to Inca a while back, it made the game crash. I don't know what I did wrong, but I couldn't get it to work.

	01-02-2002 00:43									#219
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Vonotar,

Well, I'm past the deadline, but I'd definitely vote for the Incas over the Iroquois for this particular map.

-Arrian

	01-02-2002 04:02									#220
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Vonotar A - Give the Iroquois a horse resource on the site of there capital city B - Change the Iroquois UU to something that doesn't require horses C - Change the Iroquois altogether into either the Inca's or the Tupi (both south american) relieving the pressure of three Civ's in N. America

A

	04-02-2002 01:19									#221
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by HsFB doesn't the volga go through Moscow? i had to build an aqueduct there. and about SA, it's nearly horrible, i was making a few changes but the un-nice things civ3 does with the coasts depending on if its plains, grass or desert gives me the ceeps. Also, the lack of a mini-map in the editor is a major drawback...

Good news, i'm on the way to getting a new computer (i currently have a celeron 400 with 88 MB RAM and a built-in video card)

I'm getting a P3 500 with 128 MB of RAM (i live in argentina, so this is almost impossible to get for less than 250 local $, which are U$S 125 at the exchange rate in most banks.

Anyway, as soon as i get it, i'll DL the newest version and work on SA.

	04-02-2002 07:08									#222
	Ok, I post a message... Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I sweared to myself I will stop to send messages in here because it took me too much time to make changes to the map, but the temptation was too strong and I had to answer.

NOOOO ! The volga doesn't go through Moscow !!!
Moscow is between the oka river in the south and the volga river on the north. Nijni Novgorod (former Gorki) is at the junction of the oka with the volga.

SA looks awful ? I used the same technic as for the rest of the map to make south America, I've drawn the whole thing in a gigantic squared paper enough transparent to let me see continent borders of the map I've put under it (a map that I've printed)... You can still change it if you're not satisfied, but I advise you to not change it too much if you want to keep respectful proportions.

About Vonotar's question. I'm for the inca solution. But I won't be the one who'll draw the inca leaders animations. And by the way, if we change the iroquois to the inca, it means that we need to change the special unit (cause it would still require horse)... or maybe we can say that lamas are mounted instead of horses. (I don't have no clue about the actual possibility to ride a lama). Well, it's hard... If someone who knows how to use PhotoShop wants to do all that, It would be really great !

Bye everyone

	04-02-2002 19:44									#223
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Gawd, no, a llama-mounted warrior!? For an old-world comparison, this is akin to the fear instilled by the donkey cavalry. ee-aw ee-aw

The Inca were masterful warriors, they conquered the whole of the Andes and nearby lowlands. They did it on foot, tho, so a UU should be a modified warrior. How about one with move=1 but treats all squares as road? or just a stronger unit?

I think south america is done very well in this map. The only changes I've made on my pc are to the extents of desert on the west coast, and changing grassland to plains on the easternmost tip. Inland from Recife in Brazil is very dry, not the wet vegetation on this map. I've also changed the hills to mountains toward tierra del fuego. The Chilean coast has huge mountains right up to the sea, no room to towns.

	05-02-2002 00:31									#224
	Support Apolyton

When I try to download this why does winzip say it is not a valid archive?

	05-02-2002 02:04									#225
	Apolyton Download Problems Full PM-box? Change here!

Since they went on the new server files, do not download properly. The only time I have been able to have any success has been on a system using I.E. 6.0. Since I do not use I. E. 6.0 on my machines, I wait until a kind soul posts these files at CivFanatics.

	05-02-2002 02:16									#226
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

How big is this fule supposed to be, the one I get is only 246k.

	07-02-2002 01:53									#227
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Try downloading it from Civfanatics, http://forums.civfanatics.com/showt...=&threadid=9829

	08-02-2002 00:05									#228
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Really really nice!

	09-02-2002 00:45									#229
	Main problem Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

When I see all the time we all take to make better maps, I think we should contact Firaxis so that they could put all maps in an extend version of the game.
The main issue still remains the same: The A.I settles everywhere, and at the end it slows down a lot the game. I wish I could send a mail to the firaxis team to ask them if it's possible to make it impossible to settle in desert and tundra tiles (but still in flood plains).
The only way I've found to contact them on the civ3 website is the "ask the civteam" stuff. They didn't answer. If someone knows how to contact them, well send me an email at marla_singer_13@yahoo.com so that we could talk about it .

I really want to end that issue, I'm sick about it. Well, I hope someone can help me.

	10-02-2002 23:01									#230
	Absence Increase the size of your Attachments

Apologies for disappearing for so long - Computer HDD crashed! Arrgh!

Anyhow, I'm working on the Inca's issue, hope to get back here proper when I have a working solutions...

Vonotar

	11-02-2002 23:00									#231
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Just used the map for the first time and I have to say that it is really very well done. I have a few questions:

Do you have a comprehensive downloadable list of the tweaks you've done to the rules? Is it possible to play with just the map and none of the tweaks?

I'm playing on Regent and I started up the game without following the "Correct Starting Locations" instructions. Will gameplay be unbalanced if I do that? I am the Persians with a starting location of Toronto and the only other civs on the Americas are Babylon starting at New York and Chinese starting at Mexico City. Even with the 3 pop Settler, I am multiplying rapidly and overwhelmed Babylon (somehow they escaped to South America ). China is floundering badly as well.
I've never had it this easy before on Regent, but maybe that's because I never had this much space to work with playing a 14 civ game...

One last question, a lot of times rivers appear to run through a square yet there is no trade bonus. Is that intended?

	12-02-2002 16:03									#232
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Feephi Do you have a comprehensive downloadable list of the tweaks you've done to the rules? Is it possible to play with just the map and none of the tweaks?

Check out the Readme for a full history of what has been tweaked, you have to properly install the map for it to work, simply copying the .bic file from another computer wont work as the .bic file expects to find certain information (mostly relating to the Pirogue) in the civilopedia.txt and pediaicons.txt, also it expects to find graphics for the Pirogue.

quote: I'm playing on Regent and I started up the game without following the "Correct Starting Locations" instructions. Will gameplay be unbalanced if I do that?

Well it wont play exactly like usual since the Civ's wont be in the normal locations, however you don't need to correct the start positions in order for the game to work (it might become unbalanced since England, Rome and Japan have the Pirogue unit to offset there poor start locations,)

quote: One last question, a lot of times rivers appear to run through a square yet there is no trade bonus. Is that intended?

It's a known bug with the graphics... they appear to suggest that the river flows down the side of a square, when actually it doesn't, this has been mentioned in other forums and is not caused by this map.

Vonotar

	13-02-2002 13:48									#233
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Vonotar Check out the Readme for a full history of what has been tweaked, you have to properly install the map for it to work, simply copying the .bic file from another computer wont work as the .bic file expects to find certain information (mostly relating to the Pirogue) in the civilopedia.txt and pediaicons.txt, also it expects to find graphics for the Pirogue.

Any chance you can post just the readme.txt file? I recall being able to look at it at the end of the installation process before closing the installation process window. It is nowhere to be found on my hard drive, however. Thanks.

	13-02-2002 23:48									#234
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Feephi Any chance you can post just the readme.txt file? I recall being able to look at it at the end of the installation process before closing the installation process window. It is nowhere to be found on my hard drive, however. Thanks.

There's a shortcut to it in your start menu! *grin*

Other than that look on your harddisk......

Civ3DIR \Modpacks\scenarios\marlaworldmap\documentation\in
dex.html

or check it out online.....

http://www.lastlands.org/civ3/marla...p117/index.html

Vonotar

	14-02-2002 02:54									#235
	Got spare money?

This is a GREAT map! I had alot of fun playing it! So thank you for the hard work marla.

Unfortuently though you are correct that the game slows down considerably after a while. I mean I have a very fast computer and it almost becomes unplayable. But it is still a great map.

I haven't really moded any but in the above post you asked if you could make desert tiles so you can't create cities on them....I wonder if you can make mountains that look like desert by just changing the icon?...it would also slow down the ai and humans from traveling through that area. Just an idea.

Anyway, thanks for the map.

	16-02-2002 18:41									#236
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

New version of CPT is out. Go get it Or wait for Vonotar to update the installer.

This is to be abler to use it with v1.17f

	18-02-2002 21:38									#237
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Gramphos New version of CPT is out. Go get it Or wait for Vonotar to update the installer. This is to be abler to use it with v1.17f

Version 1.18 (Compatible with 1.17f of the patch) is available in Full and Upgrade versions from CivFanatics Here. I'll ask Marla to update the first post here when I next see her. I won't post the files here myself because this site is soooo slow i'll be here all day! (plus all I get is complaints that all you get is a corrupted file called "attachment", sorry i've lost faith in Apolyton)

Vonotar

	19-02-2002 02:04									#238
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Hi,
I tried this map out and followed the instructions exactly several times but when i get to the last step of loading the fixed.sav file, I get an error "DataIO Operation System Error : TILE" Then the main map goes black and I can't see my settler or worker. I can still see the mini map and and the interface. I opened the map up in Civ3Editor and I have to admit it looks really good. I just wish I could play on it! Can anyone helpe me?!


Nevermind, I saw after I posted the above that you have a new version 1.18 that is compatible with the 1.17f patch. After I downloaded and installed it, it worked perfectly. Thanks.

Last edited by Immortal Khan on 19-02-2002 at 02:20

	19-02-2002 02:28									#239
	"DataIO Operation System Error : TILE" Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

You probably attempted to save the fixed.sav file in the saved directory. Just let the program save it where it wants to and then look in the CPT directory for the fixed.sav file when you reload the game.

If you just copied the revised version of CPT.exe over the old one (like I did), the pointer seems to be mis-directed to the CPT directory and it does not like being forced to point elsewhere.

	19-02-2002 02:45									#240
	DataIO Operation System Error : TILE Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

yes, i did save the fixed.sav file in the Saves directory because i remember seeing all my other saved games there as well. But after I downloaded the 1.18, i still saved fixed.sav in the Saves directory but it worked fine. I think it had to do with 1.17b is incompatible with the 1.17f patch.