05-07-2002 20:07									#241
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quote: Originally posted by Sixchan My system wouldn't force you to be happy either. You would be happy because you don't think that any other way of doing things would make you happier. If you don't know different, you don't want different.

Doh, that's exactly the meaning of forcing someone to be happy.

Your society deprive people of their free will, which is at least as bad as killing them, and probably much worse.
Your society is a paradox, because it destroy the only thing that justify its existence (people).

	05-07-2002 20:08									#242
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It's not surprising you don't know what's worse. It's like asking, what's worse... winning a billion dollars or finding true love?

Take off your blinders Akka le Vil, and open your narrow mind.

	05-07-2002 20:13									#243
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quote: Originally posted by Sava It's not surprising you don't know what's worse. It's like asking, what's worse... winning a billion dollars or finding true love? Take off your blinders Akka le Vil, and open your narrow mind.

Sixchan talk to reduce people to small gears of a society, without free will, being formatted since birth to do what they are told to do.

You talk about a purely elitist society with second-rank people and constant judgement about how you live.

And I'm the one with narrow mind ?

	05-07-2002 20:14									#244
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"Reproduction would be IV in my society. A couple applies to have a child, and they are approved or disapproved according to the way they live their lives."

"My system would have more freedom than the US "democracy". "

May I laugh ?

	05-07-2002 20:18									#245
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People in my society are free to do whatever they want! Absolutely anything. It's just that they don't want to.

	05-07-2002 20:22									#246
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quote: Originally posted by Sixchan People in my society are free to do whatever they want! Absolutely anything. It's just that they don't want to.

Now... Seriously...
You don't even SEE why it's thousand times WORSE than a plain dictatorship ???

Oh my... This sicko talk about destroying the very essence of people and then consider that its society is "free"...

Go to see a psy and get a treatment.

	05-07-2002 20:22									#247
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You can laugh all you want. There are people in mental hospitals yucking it up with you. My system would have more freedom in regards to choosing the path of your life and living out your dreams. When society gets to a certain size, having children ceases to become a right and becomes a privilage. Overpopulation is a problem. Irresponsible parenting is a problem. For some reason you think that I have some huge screening process dedicated to only letting certain people have children. Yes and no... good, moral, responsible people can have children. If you are evil, immoral, and irresponsible, you cannot have children. But I guess you think that those things aren't important. In a perfect world, you wouldn't need a government to tell you who's evil, immoral, and irresponsible, and who's not. But this world isn't perfect. Neither is my world... but it's a step in the right direction. And yes, because you have no imagination and vision when it comes to solving problems, you are narrow minded. Instead of offering suggestions and constructive criticism, you insult. For that, you are narrow minded.

	05-07-2002 20:30									#248
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quote: Yes and no... good, moral, responsible people can have children. If you are evil, immoral, and irresponsible, you cannot have children.

And who is about to judge what is "good, moral and responsible" ? And how ? I do believe in absolute Good and Bad, but I highly doubt that you have the same definition of it than I do.

quote: And yes, because you have no imagination and vision when it comes to solving problems, you are narrow minded. Instead of offering suggestions and constructive criticism, you insult. For that, you are narrow minded.

Blowing hot air.

I suggest to improve the actual society and at the same time to respect the essence of humanity, and never to fall in an authoritarian society.

	05-07-2002 20:37									#249
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I would expect this reaction from you, Akka, since you haven't lived in it. To quote my avatar, 'Those who join us, need only give up half of their humanity. The illogical, ill-tempered, and disordered half commonly thought of as right-brain functioning. In exchange, the left-brain capacities are increased to undreamed potential. The tendancy of biologicals to cling instead to their individual personality, can only be attributed to archaic evolutionary tendancies.'

	05-07-2002 20:38									#250
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All societies have an authoritarian essence, that's what society is all about.

Society determines what is good and bad all the time, who's to say it can't do so in relation to people having children? We do so for other, less-critical things.

	05-07-2002 20:39									#251
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quote: Originally posted by Sixchan I would expect this reaction from you, Akka, since you haven't lived in it. To quote my avatar, 'Those who join us, need only give up half of their humanity. The illogical, ill-tempered, and disordered half commonly thought of as right-brain functioning. In exchange, the left-brain capacities are increased to undreamed potential. The tendancy of biologicals to cling instead to their individual personality, can only be attributed to archaic evolutionary tendancies.'

This can be summed up with : "become a machine and be happy because you have been programmed to be".

	05-07-2002 20:41									#252
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo No, you were supposed to show why: 1. (A & B) -> C 2. ~(A -> C) 3. ~(B -> C) That was the argument you were making earlier. I was wondering why each assertion is true.

which would be done by proving that (A&B) = C

Jon Miller

	05-07-2002 20:47									#253
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quote: Originally posted by Sava I'd rather have a robot society than the one we have now... at least robots are logical and are smart.

Robots may be logical, but not necessarily smart.

	05-07-2002 20:48									#254
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quote: "become a machine and be happy because you have been programmed to be"

Sounds accurate. It won't be long before machines surpass humans, and I don't want to be left behind. If we could download conciousness into self-sustaining robots, which could not be hacked into (but I don't think it will be so long before we can infiltrate the mind), I take it.

	05-07-2002 20:48									#255
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quote: Originally posted by Sixchan I've always been one for mass sterilization, and artificial reproduction of humans, thus eliminating the abortion problem.

Once you finish with the mass sterilization, where are you going to get the sex cells for reproduction?

	05-07-2002 20:50									#256
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quote: Once you finish with the mass sterilization, where are you going to get the sex cells for reproduction?

Artificial sustainment of sexual organs.

	05-07-2002 20:53									#257
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quote: Originally posted by Sixchan Sounds accurate. It won't be long before machines surpass humans, and I don't want to be left behind. If we could download conciousness into self-sustaining robots, which could not be hacked into (but I don't think it will be so long before we can infiltrate the mind), I take it.

One day you'll perhaps stop a moment and think about free will and understand that life without at least some measure of choice is worse than death.

For now, I'm too sickened by reading abominations to bother.
Have not a nice day.

	05-07-2002 20:54									#258
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My reproductive program is a little easier... vasectomies for guys, tube tying for girls... then when approved to have a child, IV fertilization...

	05-07-2002 20:54									#259
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quote: Originally posted by Tingkai Given your previous posts, it is hard to tell if you are joking. Do you actually think that there were no unwanted pregnancies before abortion was legalized? Do you think that people were not promiscuous before 1973?

And just compare how many unwanted preganancies there were back then to how many there are today. I'm not saying it would stop people from being irresponsible completely; some will still do stupid things. But it can reduce the number of these unwanted pregnancies.

Besides, the government here in the United States has passed liquor laws to encourage responsible drinking. Why shouldn't governments be allowed to pass laws that encourage responsible sex?

	05-07-2002 20:57									#260
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quote: Originally posted by Sixchan To quote my avatar, 'Those who join us, need only give up half of their humanity. The illogical, ill-tempered, and disordered half commonly thought of as right-brain functioning. In exchange, the left-brain capacities are increased to undreamed potential. The tendancy of biologicals to cling instead to their individual personality, can only be attributed to archaic evolutionary tendancies.'

You're quoting the saying of a fictional character in a game that's designed without any scientists and treat that as gospel.

You're sad.

	05-07-2002 20:58									#261
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quote: Originally posted by Sixchan Artificial sustainment of sexual organs.

How are you going to do that?

	05-07-2002 20:59									#262
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Know anything about contraceptives?

Contraceptives don't always work. For one thing, people don't always use them. Number two, they don't prevent the spread of STD's. And number three, even if people do use them, condoms can tear, accidentally releasing sperm into the woman's body.

And about the use of birth control pills, how many people do you think actually contract STD's from relationships such as one-night stands? Lots.

	05-07-2002 21:01									#263
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quote: Originally posted by Sixchan It won't be long before machines surpass humans

In what sense? Machines have already surpassed humans in many aspects. Does that mean you want to be a backhoe?

	05-07-2002 21:02									#264
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quote: You're quoting the saying of a fictional character in a game that's designed without any scientists and treat that as gospel. You're sad.

Nah. I just thought it sounded quite good. And it also fits in somewhat with what I'm saying. There's hardly enough in SMAX to create a philsophy, and besides, I had my beliefs long before I ever played SMAX, or had any desire to.

quote: How are you going to do that?

Hmm, I dunno. Sava's way is probably better.

	05-07-2002 21:03									#265
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quote: Originally posted by Cloud9 Contraceptives don't always work. For one thing, people don't always use them. Number two, they don't prevent the spread of STD's. And number three, even if people do use them, condoms can tear, accidentally releasing sperm into the woman's body.

So if they don't always work, why are you denying people an insurance against accidents?

quote: Originally posted by Cloud9 And about the use of birth control pills, how many people do you think actually contract STD's from relationships such as one-night stands? Lots.

Source?

	05-07-2002 21:06									#266
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quote: Originally posted by Sixchan Nah. I just thought it sounded quite good. And it also fits in somewhat with what I'm saying. There's hardly enough in SMAX to create a philsophy, and besides, I had my beliefs long before I ever played SMAX, or had any desire to.

Do you know that human designs won't match the products of evolution? Not for a long, long time? That's why there are genetic and evolutionary algorithms in Computer Science.

Do you know that we got lots of ideas from other creatures in nature?

	05-07-2002 21:08									#267
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger So if they don't always work, why are you denying people an insurance against accidents?

There is no such thing as accidents. If you choose to have irresponsible sex that is your choice and you must live with the consequences. Governments should encourage people to really know their partners before engaging in sexual relationships.

quote: Source?

It's logical. Think about it. When you don't know your partner well enough to know that they don't have any diseases then you are at risk for contracting an STD.

	05-07-2002 21:09									#268
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Akka, it's important you separate me from sixchan...

Having said that...

The guidelines for the screening process would be set up by a commitee of psychologists, sociologists, medical doctors, theologins, therapists, and various legal experts.

Don't think that I would begin to outline this process. I know and respect my own ignorance. Others are better equipped to decide this matter. But I believe such a process is necessary.

Maybe if I become qualified to partake in that process, I will.

"One who claims to know, but does not, is unwise... one who does not know, and knows he does not know is wise..." to paraphrase Socrates...

	05-07-2002 21:19									#269
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Sava: Why theologians? Keep them out of it.

Condoms, despite the lies of the right-wing religious nuts, are very effective in preventing the spread of STDs. Are they 100%? No, but certainly effective enough to be vital for safe sex.

Given that, it seems to me that the only responsible sex for preventing unwanted pregnancies is gay sex.

	05-07-2002 21:23									#270
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Boris... believe it or not, theologians are some of the smartest people. I'm not talking about religious zealots, but rather people who study religion objectively and as a phenomenom of the human existence. Theologians generally keep their own beliefs out of their work and are very objective. Because people's faith is an integral part of raising a child, you need someone who is an expert in religion to guage the strength of their faith, and whether or not if could be harmful to the child (i.e. religious fundies)...