08-10-2002 15:57									#331
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quote: Originally posted by Havak So you would accept (away from stand off) that healey is a 'freak magical player' too then? He shares the ability to turn games (either way).

Just as soon as Austin scores the number of tries Campo did in his career even a tenth as entertainingly.

quote: Okay maybe on the common sense part that warrants red - but even-handed? All he pointed out was it the score on the board that counts and that however much we whinge it stays the same.

Okay, I inserted the even-handed bit as a warning to him not to come back with something even-handed.

quote: It that way you could say he was admonishing both of us - you for the Luger 'try' and me for the Lions. Perfectly acceptable thread behaviour that then?

The try was fraudulent. And I've forgotten your point.

	08-10-2002 15:59									#332
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quote: Originally posted by Devil of Truth The marketing boys have pretty much screwed team names up for the average South African as well . It was so much easier following a Natal vs. Transvaal match – but such are the times. As for the Currie Cup teams, Bearcat was mostly right. Very impressive ! The teams playing, their home base, and relative strength (according to that great, omnipotent, SA-rugby guru, DoT ): - Investec Western Province; Cape Town; Strong - Vodacom Free State Cheetahs; Bloemfontein; Strong - Falcons; Kempton Park; Average - Nashua Griquas; Kimberly; Weak - Boland Kavaliers; Wellington; Weak - Spoornet Bulldogs; East London; Average - Griffons; Welkom; Weak - Natal Sharks; Durban; Strong - Lions; Johannesburg; Strong - Pumas; Witbank; Weak - Blue Bulls; Pretoria; Average - Mighty Elephants; Port Elizabeth; Average - Vodacom Eagles; George; Weak - Leopards; Potchefstroom; Weak The S12 absorbs the unions into 4-regional sides. As you can guess, very few players from the really small unions actually make it to these sides, and you usually find 13 men on the field come from the same union. Here they are, name, home base and the unions they represent: - Bulls; Pretoria; Mostly Blue Bulls - Cats; Johannesburg; Mostly Lions, Cheetahs & Pumas (Big surprise! ) - Investec Stormers; Cape Town; Mostly WP & Griffons - The Sharks; Durban; Mostly Sharks

Good stuff, DoT. Most useful. I think I'll cut and paste and print it out for future reference. So with which outfits do your allegiances lie?

Edit. Whoops! I just discovered the answer back at the top of the page. Sorry.

	08-10-2002 17:18									#333
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quote: Just as soon as Austin scores the number of tries Campo did in his career even a tenth as entertainingly.

Whenever Campo scored it meant Australia had and that simply wasn’t entertaining at all.

Personally I always found Rory Underwood’s record far more impressive as he never played in the quality of international side Campo did, plus Rory was amateur being full time in the RAF.

Then again Campo would never have been capable of the ‘dancing’ Healey try that finished off ACT (and so enraged Justin)– “horses for courses” and all that.

quote: Okay, I inserted the even-handed bit as a warning to him not to come back with something even-handed.

I’m sure you can rely on him.

quote: The try was fraudulent.

Not according the officials bless them.

quote: And I've forgotten your point

Just talking allegiances Finbar have you ever properly coughed as a Waratahs supporter?

A lot of the joking in the bars at the ground on Saturday was "things could be worse, Bob might come back".

	08-10-2002 17:45									#334
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Whenever Campo scored it meant Australia had and that simply wasn’t entertaining at all. Personally I always found Rory Underwood’s record far more impressive as he never played in the quality of international side Campo did, plus Rory was amateur being full time in the RAF.

Somebody stop me - please - but I believe I'm with Havak on this one.

	08-10-2002 17:48									#335
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Look out DoT - Finbar has made that a double red card offence.

	08-10-2002 18:10									#336
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NOOOOO! Please don’t make me watch ice-skating. My previous life ended aboard the Titanic, now I suffer from ice’ophobia – really ! Help me!

But Havak is still right.

	08-10-2002 18:28									#337
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Ok, Im giving myself a red card for common sense.

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	08-10-2002 18:36									#338
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quote: Originally posted by Havak I’m sure you can rely on him.

Ok, heres my attempt at redemption. Australia didnt deserve to win their home game against NZ because the ref should have ended the game earlier. Time was up! Time was up as soon as NZ scored their last 3 points! Also the bloody touch judges are blind! Burke missed that last kick! He should have been sent off for being a smartarse anyway!

quote: Originally posted by Havak Whenever Campo scored it meant Australia had and that simply wasn’t entertaining at all

Classic stuff. Thats sig material.

	08-10-2002 19:02									#339
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Consider yourself redeemed.

Somehow I think all three of us might be in Finbar's sights now.

	08-10-2002 19:27									#340
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At least he cant accuse us of common sense or even-handedness.

	08-10-2002 19:32									#341
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Perish the thought!

	08-10-2002 19:36									#342
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Whenever Campo scored it meant Australia had and that simply wasn’t entertaining at all.

Quality usually isn't as far as the oppo's concerned.

quote: Personally I always found Rory Underwood’s record far more impressive as he never played in the quality of international side Campo did, plus Rory was amateur being full time in the RAF.

He couldn't get a real job?

quote: Just talking allegiances Finbar have you ever properly coughed as a Waratahs supporter?

I suppose I am. I just like quality rugby. I'd probably be a Brumbies supporter except for the attitude down there.

	08-10-2002 19:42									#343
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quote: Originally posted by finbar I suppose I am. I just like quality rugby. I'd probably be a Brumbies supporter except for the attitude down there.

Whats the attitude down there? Surly govt worker attitude? I dont remember them having an attitude, but I was only there for a couple of days.

	08-10-2002 19:43									#344
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quote: Originally posted by Devil of Truth Somebody stop me - please - but I believe I'm with Havak on this one.

No, no, that's fine. This is about our fifth rugby thread - that's roughly 2,500 posts - and someone had to agree with him on something sooner or later.

	08-10-2002 19:45									#345
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia Whats the attitude down there? Surly govt worker attitude? I dont remember them having an attitude, but I was only there for a couple of days.

It's not Canberra - the city - but the Brumbies. They thrive on their (as it were) isolation, building a "them and us" attitude, using it for motivation. It can manifest as pure arrogance.

	08-10-2002 19:47									#346
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia Ok, heres my attempt at redemption. Australia didnt deserve to win their home game against NZ because the ref should have ended the game earlier. Time was up! Time was up as soon as NZ scored their last 3 points! Also the bloody touch judges are blind! Burke missed that last kick! He should have been sent off for being a smartarse anyway!

Phew! Welcome back!

	08-10-2002 19:49									#347
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Consider yourself redeemed. Somehow I think all three of us might be in Finbar's sights now.

I reiterate - ducks in barrels are no challenge at all.

	08-10-2002 19:52									#348
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quote: Originally posted by finbar It's not Canberra - the city - but the Brumbies. They thrive on their (as it were) isolation, building a "them and us" attitude, using it for motivation. It can manifest as pure arrogance.

Arrogance being displayed by Australian rugby players? Quite frankly, I find that hard to believe.

What you say about the ACT team attitude is true though. Gregan is one of the most arrogant players Ive ever seen, and there are several in the ACT pack who are like that.

	08-10-2002 20:19									#349
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quote: Quality usually isn't as far as the oppo's concerned.

As we can see from your going into denial about that Luger try.

quote: He couldn't get a real job?

He is a Pilot.

Nice to see you solidly behind NSW.

I’m glad you like quality rugby. Before long we will have you admit you have seen England play some!

quote: I reiterate - ducks in barrels are no challenge at all.

I’m not sure we have seen you hit one yet even so.

	08-10-2002 20:44									#350
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quote: Personally I always found Rory Underwood?s record far more impressive as he never played in the quality of international side Campo did

Yes, the fact that Rory Underwood managed to score tries while playing outside Will Carling is a real feat. Carling is the kind of center who never made a pass... I also think I remember seeing Rory wear a striped jersey with letters in the back, not unlike those worn by a certain club Havak is familiar with. Am I mistaken? Or is it pure coincidence that Underwood was good and played in that club?

	09-10-2002 04:41									#351
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia What you say about the ACT team attitude is true though. Gregan is one of the most arrogant players Ive ever seen, and there are several in the ACT pack who are like that.

Gregan, Joe Roff, the list goes on. There was the incident of appalling behaviour on tour in South Africa two years ago. Several players - including Joe Roff, and, from memory, Rod Kafer now of Leicester - were out on the town and drunk. They hailed a cab, abused the driver, tore the Taxi sign from the roof of his cab. When the media reported it here, the Brumbies were outraged. They had already dealt with the matter in-house, they said, and it was no one else's business.

	09-10-2002 04:57									#352
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Apparently Romania has earned itself a berth in the 2003 Rugby World Cup, by defeating Spain 67-6. Apparently they'll be pooled with Australia, Ireland, Argentina, and either Namibia or Tunisia. What do you think the Oaks chances are at RWC 2003 in a pool like that?

	09-10-2002 05:06									#353
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quote: Originally posted by Havak As we can see from your going into denial about that Luger try.

Quality fraud? Yes, I acknowlege same.

quote: He is a Pilot.

RyanAir?

quote: Nice to see you solidly behind NSW.

I'm glad to see them finally overcoming decades of administrative incompetence. The Brumbies fed off NSW's inability to spot developing talent for their first couple of years. The crap that went on at Waratah HQ was criminal - in fact, in one case, literally, and the guy ended up in gaol. There were pockets of personal fifedom left over from the shamateur days that took too long to be eradicated. The ARU stepped in in the end.

Frankly, I suspect my allegiance is to Australian rugby.

quote: I’m glad you like quality rugby. Before long we will have you admit you have seen England play some!

Yes, I've added seeing England playing quality rugby to my very long-term wish list along with celebrating my hundred and twenty seventh birthday.

quote: I’m not sure we have seen you hit one yet even so.

I have the sautee pan warming ready for your left breast as we speak.

	09-10-2002 05:10									#354
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quote: Originally posted by Bearcat Apparently Romania has earned itself a berth in the 2003 Rugby World Cup, by defeating Spain 67-6. Apparently they'll be pooled with Australia, Ireland, Argentina, and either Namibia or Tunisia. What do you think the Oaks chances are at RWC 2003 in a pool like that?

Not great. I suspect Ireland is the (as it were) unknown quantity. If they get it right, they'll go through with Australia. With no disrespect to the others, I hope they do.

	09-10-2002 12:47									#355
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quote: Am I mistaken? Or is it pure coincidence that Underwood was good and played in that club?

No you are absolutely right that he played for Tigers for well over a decade. I am capable, Finbar banter aside, of being slightly objective though and the guy was pure class outside the terms of my club preference. One of my favourite flankers of all time was Mike Teague for example, and he played for Gloucester.

Underwood also finished his career with Bedford for three seasons and played against us and I still cheered him on as he was a class act. As you say to play for years with Carling and Guscott (ball hogs) inside him and yet still get his 49 tries – pure quality.

quote: Apparently Romania has earned itself a berth in the 2003 Rugby World Cup

You have to feel sorry for them. Last November an England second XV beat them 134-0. It’s not beyond the realms Australia might put 50 points on them therefore.

quote: Quality fraud? Yes, I acknowlege same.

The only fraud I saw was the Aussies fullback claiming it hadn’t been grounded.

I think Rory may still be active RAF – his brother Tony is definitely a commercial pilot though – it might be Ryanair.

quote: Frankly, I suspect my allegiance is to Australian rugby.

Surely not!!!

We’ve discussed before but few Englishmen would understand that – our culture is very much club AND country – you need the former first.

I had no idea the NSW history had been quite so troubled. I do have time for Bob but sometimes he makes awful calls – like defending the little assassin last year for example. Ones things for sure if things go pear shaped Bob won’t compromise – NSW will have to sack him first?

quote: Yes, I've added seeing England playing quality rugby to my very long-term wish list along with celebrating my hundred and twenty seventh birthday.

Are you perchance 127 on November 15th this year?

Your love of cooking shows through – it took me a few moments to connect the sauté and the ducks in the barrel.

quote: I suspect Ireland is the (as it were) unknown quantity. If they get it right, they'll go through with Australia. With no disrespect to the others, I hope they do.

It’s not entirely certain you will beat them yourselves. On their day they can beat any team in the world. They normally do so at home but if they get their heads right it could be interesting indeed. You will at least get the chance to see the lad I rate as the best hooker in the world – Woods. Make sure your lads don’t kick off – the Irish forwards can hold their own trust me – even with Galway and Clohessy retired.

	09-10-2002 13:49									#356
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Underwood also finished his career with Bedford for three seasons and played against us and I still cheered him on as he was a class act. As you say to play for years with Carling and Guscott (ball hogs) inside him and yet still get his 49 tries – pure quality.

Wasn't one of those blokes meant to have doofed Princess Fruit Loop? Before that ginger-haired Army chap - who patently obviously fathered Charles' youngest son - climbed into the, um, saddle?

quote: The only fraud I saw was the Aussies fullback claiming it hadn’t been grounded.

Not to mention the question of whether he was inside the field of play. The fraud was monumental in its magnitude.

quote: I think Rory may still be active RAF –

Good grief. Hope he doesn't end up over that oil-rich country that the Yanks are currently seeking to call their own personal petrol bowser.

quote: We’ve discussed before but few Englishmen would understand that – our culture is very much club AND country – you need the former first.

Interesting, isn't it? I have no statistical proof, obviously, but I suspect most Australian rugby people follow my line. Of course, many of them are passionate about their respective state team - a whole lot more than I am - but the Wallabies would rank higher for them. I suppose it's the fact that it's the pinnacle.

quote: I had no idea the NSW history had been quite so troubled. I do have time for Bob but sometimes he makes awful calls – like defending the little assassin last year for example. Ones things for sure if things go pear shaped Bob won’t compromise – NSW will have to sack him first?

Troubled? As I said, the ARU had to step in. It's the reason why the Waratahs were non-existent in S12 until last year. They were (literally) bankrupt, spending vast amounts on a white elephant of a stadium miles from the game's fan base. Promising talent was neglected, the team (in fact, the whole organisation) was factionalised.

Bob Dwyer has his faults - mainly oral - but he's a top coach. Last year's S12 squad was little different to that of the year before and he took them a long way before the shallowness of the talent pool caught up. He instills confidence. And, as you say, he doesn't take s*it.

quote: Are you perchance 127 on November 15th this year?

Dream on.

quote: Your love of cooking shows through – it took me a few moments to connect the sauté and the ducks in the barrel.

I thought it time you did a bit of work. And if I sense the breast is on the tough side - tight-head, et al - I have a fine marinade.

quote: It’s not entirely certain you will beat them yourselves. On their day they can beat any team in the world.

If we don't, we're in trouble. But who knows?

	09-10-2002 14:51									#357
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quote: Originally posted by Havak We’ve discussed before but few Englishmen would understand that – our culture is very much club AND country – you need the former first.

It goes the same way here in France, the club first then the national team.

	09-10-2002 15:08									#358
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quote: Wasn't one of those blokes meant to have doofed Princess Fruit Loop?

The man in question was the one raised by LDiCesare. Mr Carling. Prize chump.

quote: The fraud was monumental in its magnitude

Having trouble letting go of this are we?

quote: Good grief. Hope he doesn't end up over that oil-rich country that the Yanks are currently seeking to call their own personal petrol bowser.

They will still be talking about this in ten years the way it’s going.

quote: but the Wallabies would rank higher for them. I suppose it's the fact that it's the pinnacle.

Ah, tricky this. You have to get inside our minds. We ALL rank England higher in terms of importance – it’s the semi-pinnacle followed by the Lions right at the top. But the club foundation has to be there before you may take that national stake. The concept of an England supporter with no grass roots club they support devotedly is quite alien. Almost as bad as corporate junket types who take all the best boxes at twickers then ask why the ball is “that shape”.

quote: He instills confidence. And, as you say, he doesn't take s*it.

Nicely put. Also to his credit he detests Malcolm Pierce (the Bristol owner) which makes him all right in my book. He also hates Lippy “Oz” which should further endear him to you?

quote: Dream on

Early morning on the 16th?

quote: I have a fine marinade.

Yes but have you got the time it would need???

quote: If we don't, we're in trouble. But who knows?

Banter aside you are very clear favourites in the fixture. But they are a weird, weird team at times. They have the skill and firepower to do it – strong forwards, mercurial centres, speedy wings. It is not beyond the realms.

After all the Wallabies know all about “In B.O.D we trust” – Brian O’Driscoll is a super player and central to how they perform.

	09-10-2002 16:37									#359
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quote: Originally posted by Havak The man in question was the one raised by LDiCesare. Mr Carling. Prize chump.

Anyone dipping the wick in that puddle of psychosis needs their head read.

quote: Having trouble letting go of this are we?

It's keeping me amused until something better comes along.

quote: Ah, tricky this. You have to get inside our minds.

Um ... pass. Though I take the point you made. Tradition. And we've been down that motorway before.

quote: Nicely put. Also to his credit he detests Malcolm Pierce (the Bristol owner) which makes him all right in my book. He also hates Lippy “Oz” which should further endear him to you?

He hates a few people. Man after my own heart.

	09-10-2002 17:17									#360
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The gentleman needed his head read from an early age as it happens. But he did provoke the very necessary change of English rugby from old boys network to professional sport so I have to say on that one point I respect him.

quote: It's keeping me amused until something better comes along.

Four or Five ‘fraudulent’ English tries next month should do that.

quote: Tradition. And we've been down that motorway before.

Indeed. To summarise – you have either got it or you haven’t.

quote: He hates a few people. Man after my own heart.

And without fear or favour – he had the barny with Laurie Mains last season didn’t he?
Bless the chap – even I could tell him trying to force Dean Richards out of my club would result in Bob going rather than Dean – but I doubt Bob asked anyone else’s opinion – he just went for it.
Stephen Jones latest column on PR is worth a read – it will be enormously interesting to Tamerlin and LdiCesare I think. It’s also truly remarkable in that, at one point, he almost says something nice about Leicester.

Check it out


here