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Havak
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Swing Low, Sweet Chariots.
Aug 1999
time: 05:22
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I think economical considerations will force Great Britain to join the Euro zone and enforce a deeper european cooperation policy. |
Caligastia may well red card me but can you name a country with a higher level of compliance with European directives than the UK. 
We are already European as much as we want to be – we just don’t want the mickey mouse money part of it.
I preferred things the way they were – trying to handle the different currency and communicate with my kindergarten level French. 
I didn’t have time to comment on your ideas yesterday Caligastia, I just wanted to throw the upset Kiwi link in before close of business (it was so funny). Your ideas were solid although personally I am not totally sold on losing the existing six nations, although I do recognise there is a limit to how helpful it can be to England (and France) now. Were I Kiwi I would ditch the S12 immediately – why expend effort to help the Aussies improve? You know full well whenever they win it you will hear endlessly how they have always been better than you…
*Finbar warms up his pen for a stinging riposte to Havak*
I think crucially for the game to develop it needs regular clashes between the top teams so I think some expansion of the autumn program here is inevitable, but I would want all the top teams involved so I think for once we are all in agreement. I would expect we even agree that England should the to have more away fixtures (the current plan is it would be staged in Twickenham every November).
I know very little about those pace lads by the way Finbar – but I do of course wish them every success.
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it must be disspiriting to lead the world in so many crashingly boring sports like rowing and that bizarre Winter Olympics event where they slide something down an ice lane and chase it with brooms |
Indeed. In fact I would be quite happy to have Scotland compete in that as Scotland to avoid associating it with us.
Of course beating the ABs on 9th Nov takes us to Number 1 in the rankings. Follow it be beating the Wallabies and Boks, then a clean sweep in the six nations (France visit Twickers this time) and it will be hard for any other country to regain the spot before the RWC.
Nurse – where is my medication?
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Not to mention those who are too arrogant or stupid (or both) to learn from past mistakes. |
Too many of both types in this world sadly. For example your PM playing the racist immigration card, ours slavishly devoted to right wing ideals totally discredited in the 80s and 90s.
Oh bugger – her comes my red card!
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It's on the cards. |
See my (not entirely serious) point to Cal above.
And as for the money men – let them try, it will avail them nought in the final analysis.
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I suspect its only chance of success will hang on the potential for fiscal reward. |
The only reason the concept is even running at all is that the RFU will have researched how much they can increase revenue from the idea.
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angry illiterates are vastly more literate than most Australians anyway. |
Though perhaps not so eloquent?
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And about time. I was wearying of your hopes that the ABs would cream England in November |
Well I had been hoping for a tight exciting game but after those opinion pieces from Caligastia’s countrymen who lack his respect for opponents I could happily settle for putting a half century on them. A man has to have dreams you know.
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Apart from that, just don't take any notice of Havak. He knows nothing about rugby. He's from a soccer heritage. Just humour him as we do. |
Finbar made a small error in his quote to you. It should have read “He knows nothing about SH rugby, he’s from an NH rugby heritage where the law book is actually used by referees and offside really does exist”.
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That’s what I’m saying! You need to keep the S12, but expand the Tri-nations. Definitely include France and England.. |
Sorry to be the pedantic Brit but this isn’t what is suggested at all. The tri-nations would be ditched and RSA and Australia invited to take part in a new tri-nations tournment hosted by the RFU. It would be created by us rather than joined by us.
What we lads are arguing is that it should go the whole hog and be an inclusive top six tourney pulling in the Abs and France and A.N. Other.
Personally I suspect it is all hot air to help O’Neil secure a better re-negotiation for Aus in the tri-series – what say you Finbar?
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Caligastia
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Originally posted by finbar
1. I would keep the S12 but in a different, probably abbreviated format (for all the reasons I've paraded endlessly before, and I think South Africa should agree on the basis that the S12 has been a huge factor in their recent revival) and scrap the Tri-Nations in favour of your 6 Nations concept. |
What is your idea of an "abbreviated format"? Personally I would like to see a super 12 that is less taxing on the top players. If we are to keep it at all I think there should be an international tournament going at the same time in order to keep the top players occupied. That way when the super 12 is over there could be a break for all players.
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finbar
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Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:22
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Originally posted by Caligastia
What is your idea of an "abbreviated format"? Personally I would like to see a super 12 that is less taxing on the top players. If we are to keep it at all I think there should be an international tournament going at the same time in order to keep the top players occupied. That way when the super 12 is over there could be a break for all players. |
I've since given some thought to what could constitute an "abbreviated format". Result - I don't know. There probably isn't any way of abbreviating it, per se. Because of the RWC, next year's S12 seems to have been condensed. Same number of games, fewer weeks. The only alternative that occurs to me is to drop the return match, thus radically abbreviating it. But then one would have to wonder whether there's any point to it at all.
The latter part of your paragraph is interesting. Running the S12 at the same time (so to speak) as an international tournament would, in fact, give greater opportunities for players at S12 level with the Test players away. (It might even do away with the need for the extra Australian S12 team) The potential downside, of course, is that without the top players, the S12 comp might not attract the same crowds, and, as we all know, its cash cow status is pretty important.
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Caligastia
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Originally posted by finbar
The latter part of your paragraph is interesting. Running the S12 at the same time (so to speak) as an international tournament would, in fact, give greater opportunities for players at S12 level with the Test players away. (It might even do away with the need for the extra Australian S12 team) The potential downside, of course, is that without the top players, the S12 comp might not attract the same crowds, and, as we all know, its cash cow status is pretty important. |
I think it could still be just as popular, because as I see it, its main appeal is the fact that it is essentially a provincial and international competition mixed into one. Its a great concept, and I would hate to do away with the whole thing altogether. Even though it helps Australian rugby...he grudgingly admits ...because after all, its no fun when one team wins all the time, even if its the All Blacks...he even more grudgingly admits
oooohhhh...I think Im gonna be sick....
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finbar
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Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:22
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Originally posted by Caligastia
I think it could still be just as popular, because as I see it, its main appeal is the fact that it is essentially a provincial and international competition mixed into one. Its a great concept, and I would hate to do away with the whole thing altogether. |
You could well be right. I hope so. In that case, running a Test-level comp in and around it could be workable.
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Even though it helps Australian rugby...he grudgingly admits ...because after all, its no fun when one team wins all the time, even if its the All Blacks...he even more grudgingly admits |
The real bottom line is that S12 helps everyone's rugby because it is, by definition, a stronger comp than the respective domestic club comps (one or two of the easy-beat S12 teams aside, maybe). Exposing players to a higher standard of rugby will lift players' standards (providing the players are equipped to lift their standards).
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finbar
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Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:22
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Originally posted by Tamerlin
DoT : there are a few things you have to know. |
 This is a great post, Tamerlin! Good stuff!
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1 - In spite of its heretic opinions about Rugby (as most of the SH representatives around here) Finbar deserves a massive respect because he has seen AC/DC live when the band was playing in clubs (it means he saw the band at the beginning of its carreer with Bon Scott, respect...). |
You can add INXS - subject to your taste! - and a few others to the list. The loudest band I've ever heard was Rose Tattoo who, from memory, had some success in Europe. I couldn't hear for a week after the performance.
Poor old Bon Scott. Very interesting character. He'd spent his entire musical life battling along in various bands - in the mid-late 1960s he was often decked out in flared pants, polka dots, and with permed hair, believe me - and he finally hit the big time with AC/DC. It wasn't so much a case of him not being able to cope with the fame, but more that he actually - somehow - preferred the battling days to the successful days. He was always a massive, massive drinker and (soft-ish) drug taker whose only real ambition was to have a good time doing what he loved doing. Somehow, fame and glory and money took the fun out of it for him. Ultimately, ironically, I think he would have been perfectly happy with the way he died.
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2 - The thread is mostly animated by Havak and Finbar which are displaying a delightful Anti-British / Anti-Australian bias mainly for the fun of it (they won't admit it but they like each other) which gives us the opportunity to read a spirited exchange of kind words in which we can from time to time "ajouter notre grain de sel" ("add our grain of salt") as we say in France. |
I would make only one small addition. Havak has soccer in his genes and anything Havak posts must be read with that immensely disturbing proviso.
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There are also a few things you can bet your shirt on :
1 - Each time the SH is concerned the chances Havak and I agree against all the others are pretty high. United we stand. |
Funny how the equator, along with marking 0 latitutde, also marks the boundary between sense and nonsense (with the former the exclusive property of those south of 0 latitude).
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2 - Each time the NH is concerned the chances all the others (to the exception of LDiCesare who is french) agree against Havak and I are seemingly high. Heretics are stubborn. |
Only proving the point of my preceding paragraph.
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3 - Each time Australia is concerned there is an exception to the above rules, Havak and Caligastia have great chances to agree against Finbar while I'am adopting a rather distant and neutral attitude (this has something to do with internal affairs within the Commonwealth). |
Very funny stuff! I can't add to it.
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4 - As far as traditions and Rugby are concerned, everybody here agree (at least most of the time) they should not be sacrificed on the altar of money and should be kept alive. Caligastia is, I can be wrong, the individual which seems the more prone to sacrifice tradition but he is living in the United States and might have been somehow spoiled. |
Couldn't agree more. Along with the soccer genes lurking within Havak's body, Caligastia's worshiping at the altar of the Almighty Greenback is the greatest threat to the purity of these threads. I'm just waiting for him to have George Witless Bush add this thread to the Axis of Evil.
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I think your survival kit to the Apolyton Rugby Thread is now ready, good luck ! |
I'm going to cut and paste this thread and save it. Add the Red and Yellow Card rules, and keep it for presentation to any others who wander in here and wonder what they've struck.
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03-10-2002 13:16
no… wait a minute… rather make me watch League. 
but I do have to wonder whether the Brits reaction to the Kiwi outrage in this situation would be quite so "objective" were the roles reversed and, by analogy, certain high-profile English teams were to be excluded from the Champions league, er, for example. 
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