12-11-2002 14:09									#1
	Would I like this game? Remove this text

I am considering purchasing CTPII. But I want to learn more about it...

From what I've gathered so far CTPII has a lot more modding options than Civ3, which is the main thing I'm looking for. Tell me more about the editor please.

Are there a lot of units made for the game? Civ3 had too few but there are a lot of fan-made ones. If there are enough units and the editor is good enough, I'm sold.

What are the graphics like? (in case I need to make my own.) Are the units animated? What about the leaders in diplomacy?

Does the game run better than Civ3? I feel like civ3 is inefficient and slow.

Just ramble about the game.

	12-11-2002 15:35									#2
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: From what I've gathered so far CTPII has a lot more modding options than Civ3, which is the main thing I'm looking for. Tell me more about the editor please.

The CTP2 programmers even used the help of modder to help them how to make this game more easible modded. I another word CTP2 was made to be improved by modding. The power of the modding is almost infinite.

quote: Are there a lot of units made for the game? Civ3 had too few but there are a lot of fan-made ones. If there are enough units and the editor is good enough, I'm sold.

You cans have as many unis as you want in the game.
Ex. The games has 70 units in the original game. A mod called Craddle has about 130 units. He just added new units (to add is as easy as a cut and paste) using fan created graphics.
There is no limit for the number of units.

quote: Are the units animated? What about the leaders in diplomacy?

The units are animated and have specific sounds.
As for the leaders. There are no leader graphics in the game. They probably didnt want to make a game so one leader-only through all ages (kind of unreal isnt).
Since there are the graphics of the leaders in the picture folder. They just did not implemented. Could be because they hadnt time (CTP2 was rushed out just like Civ3) but they already had the pictures which is the most difficult to have. So i dont believe time is the problem.
Some of the mod-packs added a 2D not animated picture of the leaders. If you like them.

As for the graphics Check this.

quote: I feel like civ3 is inefficient and slow.

Never played Civ3 3 but i have read that CTP2 is faster than civ3 (wich has a famous of being slow indeed). i would wait other who played bothe games comments.

As for gameplay. Check this thread

	12-11-2002 17:31									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Indeed CtP2 is faster than Civ3, thats if speed matters to you, which is doesnt for alot of tbs game players, but i understand your gripe.

As for graphics, im working on some alternative tiles for CtP2 based on different photographs, which could take a while yet, as well as importing the CtP1 graphics into the CtP2 tileset, so the options are very open for tile graphics. As for unit graphics its more complicated to make animated units, as you can imagine. I know Caranorn was continuing work on converting the Civ3 units, which turn out perfect when theyre finished. I had to stop on that because i had to adjust each frame in PSP, but you can use macros (or some such thing lol) in Photoshop which is much faster.

	12-11-2002 21:02									#4
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I think there is a limit of 200 units in a game, although there may be a way to work around this...Never tried it though.

CTP2 can use CTP1 units/sprites, and with fan created units, there is about 175-200 good units currently available. The nice thing is that you can use an existing tank unit sprite, change the tga file (the image that shows up in the GL and army manager) and have a whole series of tanks - the only downside is that you may not be able to determine exactly what kind of tank the AI is throwing against you if it is in a stack (actually, this is one of the nice things about CTP2 - you never know exactly what you are up against until you commit to battle) You will know what type of tank you have though.

Cradle has approx 120 units.

Modding is the true strength of CTP2...the Mods are a totally different breed than the default game.

This is required reading for prospective players...

	12-11-2002 23:10									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I like to play big huge games with lots of civs and huge maps, lots of units, more turns than the regular game, etc. so a faster engine could be the difference between 4 minute and 6 minute waits between turns.

How many animated graphics (user made and come with the game) for units are there total?

	12-11-2002 23:40									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Fully animated, probably up to about 150 maybe. Not sure, we lost count I think. All directional non-animated or part animated, another 40 at least. Some are highly specific though (dragon, X-wing etc) But we're in the process of bringing some of the Civ3 units in, so there may be a slow trickle of more units.

	13-11-2002 03:54									#7
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Jaguar Warrior im sure you will like this game

I have both CtP2 and Civ3 and modded CtP2 is 100 times better than Civ3 its just so more enjoyable realistic etc etc


Civ3 does have SOME things that CtP2 lacks (as it should for a game made 2 yrs afterwards) but the thing is ALL of them that i am relating to are/have been made

This game could also almost be considered as in the making as its potential is enourmous and the modding/scenarios etc that have and are taking place are amazing.



This thread comes up quite alot, i think maybe a sticky "About this game" or "Why get this game" or "Info about CtP2" or something like that should be made containing info about its rushed release its prequal, modding, modding potential etc etc should be made (although it would take a long time and im not offering ALTHOUGH I WOULD LOVE TO HELP LOADS)

anyway Jaguar Warrior try CtP2

-James

	13-11-2002 03:58									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Blah blah, more threads: here, here, here, here, here,
here,
here,
here, and here.

	13-11-2002 06:08									#9
	Full PM-box? Change here!

All those comparison threads...

Best quote goes to Venger.

quote: I have to admit savage disappointment in Civ3, and this overwhelming desparation made me go looking for something else, kinda like finding out your girlfriend is really a man or something and hitting the bar to troll up anything with three holes..okay, I shouldn't have said that...

and insanely inaccurate quote goes to genghisvick,

quote: CTP2 is pure crap. It doesn't have the longevity that Civ III will have.

figure that one out.

	13-11-2002 06:36									#10
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Originally posted by Maquiladora

quote: and insanely inaccurate quote goes to genghisvick, Originally posted by GhengisVick CTP2 is pure crap. It doesn't have the longevity that Civ III will have. figure that one out.

as in the longevity it took for Civ3 to be released .............. as in the longevity it took for multiplay capabilities were released?????? oh i give up, someone solve this well thought out riddle


lol i just seen the *will* lol well that adds a hole new dimention to this ingenius puzzle (must be some sort of fortune tellar *hope its not his profession*)

	13-11-2002 15:34									#11
	Re: Would I like this game? Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Jaguar Warrior From what I've gathered so far CTPII has a lot more modding options than Civ3, which is the main thing I'm looking for. Tell me more about the editor please.

If you're referring only to the editor, it's not better and not worse than the current Civ3 one. But the main tools of the modders are an event system (which Civ3 completely lacks) and a scripting language (dito).

quote: Are there a lot of units made for the game? Civ3 had too few but there are a lot of fan-made ones. If there are enough units and the editor is good enough, I'm sold.

Guess you're sold then. A big amount of fan made units here too.

quote: What are the graphics like? (in case I need to make my own.) Are the units animated? What about the leaders in diplomacy?

Graphics are a matter of taste, I personally don't like them, others do. Let's say, the original Civ3 one is worse, Sn00py's 1000% better. Just my taste. They aren't that important in a TBS though. Look at chess. Light and dark squares and moving towers (rooks), but an awesome game overall. Units are animated and have an own sound (well... which sucks after a while, I don't remember if it can be switched off). Civ leaders are non existant.

quote: Does the game run better than Civ3? I feel like civ3 is inefficient and slow.

Yes, it's faster, although my and other's experience says, that some mods (like Cradle) have stability issues. May be this has been fixed, I've not touched the game for a couple of months. Some of the mods are hard to install over localized versions of the game (not an issue for you).

quote: Just ramble about the game.

You as modder will love it, I'm pretty sure. But you have to learn a lot of "unusual" things, like playing through a futuristic world in the end (nothing for my taste, others like it) and having your priest and attorney invisible (also none of my favorites). The feeling to rule an "empire" is there, better than in other TBS games.

	14-11-2002 01:54									#12
	Re: Would I like this game? Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Jaguar Warrior From what I've gathered so far CTPII has a lot more modding options than Civ3, which is the main thing I'm looking for. Tell me more about the editor please.

Indeed there are a lot more modding options in CTP2. But there is actual no editor for CTP2 you find most stuff in the text files, it might be unconfortable to start if you are used to the Civ3 sytem. But the big advantage of this system is, that the programmers didn't need as much time as for a GUI to program it, and you have also access to parts that aren't actual finished but you can do some stuff with it. With a GUI for it you would have only the options that are officially finished.

quote: Originally posted by Jaguar Warrior Are there a lot of units made for the game? Civ3 had too few but there are a lot of fan-made ones. If there are enough units and the editor is good enough, I'm sold.

Well if you mean you want to modify the values of a unit no problem just modify the unit.txt, but if you want to modify unit graphics I must say sorry so far we don't have a sprite extractor, but you can create unit graphics with PSP or Photoshop.

quote: Originally posted by Jaguar Warrior What are the graphics like? (in case I need to make my own.) Are the units animated? What about the leaders in diplomacy?

As mentioned the units are animated. Unfortunatly there aren't leader pictures in the game. You find these pictures in the graphic ressources but the game doesn't use them, because I think of a last minute bug or something like this.

quote: Originally posted by Jaguar Warrior Does the game run better than Civ3? I feel like civ3 is inefficient and slow.

Well I can't tell you anything about this, but if you have to use workers instaed of PW then you have to deal with workers and move them from a to b. Time wasting in my mind but it creates some atmosphere. From the other stuff, there is also a differnce between the default game and modded game. As the is weak is not able to do much stuff that makes sense. In the modded game you have much more AI activity and therefore longer AI turns, but I can't remember that I had to wait more then five minutes so that it is my turn again, even in CTP1 that was more CTP intensive, because cities didn't grow and therefore you settled closer.

-Martin