26-06-2003 12:56									#151
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I would say we should just blockade them and prevent their progress. They are pushing us. They want to see if we are now their b!tches due to recent events and what they want us to perceive as our negative image.

As DeepO would say, Bah!

End the game. These are our waters. They can and should be made to feel welcome to sod off.

	26-06-2003 13:04									#152
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I had only a short look at the screenshot before I went to work, but as far as I remember, we don't have enough ships in range to block them.

	26-06-2003 13:17									#153
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We should be able to intercept them around Typhoon, from both sides.

Am I looking at that shot correctly? Did we not move any ground forces to keep up with the RP galley? Is that the beginning or the end of the turn?

	26-06-2003 13:40									#154
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Sadly, we can't block them anymore... I doubt RP doesn't know what they just sent us, they know we can't seriously keep them from exploring our coast without building additional boats (and we said in public enough times that we want to build, instead of train).

I agree on the extortion message from Nathan, let's push back, and see how they respond. Further, I'd politely ask for a WM+10 gold (the 10 being purely a matter of principle: they learn about 100 new tiles, we learn none), and say we don't care if they want to keep on scouting or not.

Oh, and bah indeed

DeepO

	26-06-2003 13:41									#155
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Oh, Re: groundtroops: can we move all units to block the most annoying blocking sites? We used the gap Vox left us, please don't let us be caught with our pants down.

DeepO

	26-06-2003 13:44									#156
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We have three galleys on the east coast that I started down south to set up an option to blockade. Since RP's galleys only have a movement rate of three, that should be sufficient to force them out to sea if they want to go around if we position our ships correctly. The intercept will take place at the southern tip of our land mass.

I really doubt that BigFree intended for his message to sound as arrogant as it did. Suppose he had said, "We aren't interested in buying a map when we can find out most of what we want to know with our galley, but if you would feel more comfortable giving us your map so we can avoid the need to have a galley in your waters, we would appreciate it." I'm sure we wouldn't have been happy with that response, but considering that Lego has allowed scouting in their waters, it would be hard to view RP's taking that view as particularly unreasonable. The real problem is that instead of taking a polite approach, BigFree chose words that ended up sounding an awful lot like extortion. But if that was a mistake, I'd rather give RP a chance to back off. I'd hate to see a misunderstanding due to a poor choice of words turn into something nasty.

	26-06-2003 13:49									#157
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither We should be able to intercept them around Typhoon, from both sides. Am I looking at that shot correctly? Did we not move any ground forces to keep up with the RP galley? Is that the beginning or the end of the turn?

I forgot to. Sorry; I hope that doesn't come back to bite us. If nothing else, we have more than half a dozen horsemen and WCs in Arashi that should be able to catch up quickly just so long as RP doesn't try something this turn.

	26-06-2003 13:54									#158
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well, I'd rather block a couple of important mountains permanently (like the iron ones, which we already have blocked). We should have about enough troops to block all coasts, at least on the West side... if they can't land, they can't attack us either. And by doing that once, we don't have to bother each turn to see if our defenses are up to snuff.

DeepO

	26-06-2003 21:14									#159
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Bah... invite them to land! It would giive us the perfect excuse (they won't do it, they can't be that dumb given how GoW's landing worked even with a screen of several Immortals). We just need to block the Hill by Bolderberg, and probably the coastal forests. Even that might be too much though. We don't want to give them ideas to start blocking landing sites on their own territory...

The Iron Mountains we should definitely have a Pike on at all times though.

	26-06-2003 23:40									#160
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I said ths in the Office thread, I will clarify here...

let them scout It will mean nothing because we will sell our map around however we decide.

let RP know that we will sell them our map for their WM + 10-30 gold. They may go on exploring our coast in either case. The choice is theirs scout or not. Any landing will be an act of aggression.

DeepO had it right, they pay for the information now and free up a galley or do not accept he deal and go on exploring. It will take more time, so the gold is worth it.

Also do you think we can get a 5-10 turn morititorum on map trades with the map deals? What would it take to do so?

Mss

	26-06-2003 23:44									#161
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Ok will probably drop by on BF sometime today. When ever he's around I guess.

#PTWTalks (sandwich) on apolyton irc

	26-06-2003 23:44									#162
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Also we do not want to inflame the issue by letting them know we feel exthorted or bullied or things like that. We do not want to threaten (even nicely). Cordial is how we want to be even though we are really cautious towards them.

Mss

	26-06-2003 23:47									#163
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quote: Originally posted by nbarclay I really doubt that BigFree intended for his message to sound as arrogant as it did. ....... I'd rather give RP a chance to back off. I'd hate to see a misunderstanding due to a poor choice of words turn into something nasty.

That is key, how do we get them to back off with out sounding like aggressive, defensive sharks?

Mss

	27-06-2003 01:32									#164
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You mention that BFs was an interesting message. They ask why. You tell them that we do not look well on what might be threats by a guest to interfere with our economy, but we are assuming that he spoke awkwardly.

Give them a chance to eat crow, and then block their further progress ASAP.

	27-06-2003 14:42									#165
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I doubt we'll be able to get NDAs on map deals, since it essentially blocks them from selling their WM to anyone. GoW, in particular, might be looking to make some money from their Lego maps soon, and might not welcome trading maps with us if this is going to limit their ability to get any money from their knowledge (although they only have RP to sell to, and RP probably aren't in a hurry to see a map of the Lego coast yet.

	28-06-2003 01:44									#166
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contact with RP posted in the log

Suggested they give us there map. He asked about the specifics, but rather than mention the galley I talked about not selling on.

IMO their galley is going to keep on along our coast unless they explicitly know that it is part of the map deal.

	09-07-2003 04:14									#167
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Would Togas still be keeping a short leash on all RPers when it comes to disclosing things to the public? If so, I wonder how the last post from civman in SPIN got approved, unless they wanted to provoke us...

DeepO

	09-07-2003 09:35									#168
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I think he was just using license, DeepO. He stated specifically that the events depicted were at odds with our government's policy, sorta.

	09-07-2003 13:46									#169
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I know... but even if you start by saying "This is completely fictional, and untrue", it has been said, and will be read. It leaves an imprint of sorts.

I don't feel compelled to answer, but I wonder what would happen if one of us would write a story, completely fictional, in which we accuse RP to try to manipulate the world. I don't think they'll take it kindly, even if it may just be a story.

DeepO

	10-07-2003 06:19									#170
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RP wants a 10 turn NAP? How many turns do we need to get our forces ready and in position?

	10-07-2003 06:30									#171
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I don't see the brouhaha starting too soon. When it does, we may well want to wait a few turns to see actual evidence of war, and not just reports. Also, if we wait, we may get several turns advantage as RP may thin out their Eastern garrisons and may deploy any reserves they have closer to the action (which would be away from us).

A 10 turn NAP would not hinder us seriously, I think. If it is concluded quickly. I would like to get a sense of who GoW has such agreements with though.

	10-07-2003 07:36									#172
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The 10 turn NAP would be alright, but might be a mistake. I doubt we'd want to go for a second (or third, or whatever) one, and it might raise flags if things aren't quite progressed to where we'd want to invade when we decline the next one. I'd rather not put us on a turn clock where we have to land on the 11th turn or give RP too much time to plan for what's coming.

We are at 0% lux rate right now. Do we already have any luxuries from RP? If we don't need the RP luxuries, maybe it would be best to just extensively haggle with them over the luxury trade, and try to string it out as long as possible. The NAP clause should allow us plenty of discussion points, and we could just be slow on diplomacy too.

	10-07-2003 17:01									#173
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Yeah, a turn 10 NAP would mean that whenever we break it, it looks fishy. Better to keep to our line of 'no NAPs with Bob'.

Also: what does revolving mean in this context? does it mean that it is essentially endless, but takes 10 turns to stop? That would be totally unacceptable...

DeepO

	16-07-2003 08:09									#174
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Chatting with BigFree. The jist of it is that RP want to sell Luxes to us for 5gpt. Will post edited log later (there is ISDG stuff mixed up in it).

	16-07-2003 08:13									#175
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Chatting with BigFree. The jist of it is that RP want to sell Luxes to us for 5gpt. Will post edited log later (there is ISDG stuff mixed up in it).

War was just declared on them and they want 5gpt for luxuries? are those the luxuries we are currently getting from them? They must not be too concerned about this right now, wouldn't they be trying to get an alliance with us instead?

	16-07-2003 08:18									#176
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Gotta love Togas' little poem...

	16-07-2003 08:34									#177
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It is 5gpt for ivory (3rd lux). He has moved on to enquire about alliance. I told him we could discuss it.

	16-07-2003 08:37									#178
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ah an ongoing discussion then. good luck, looking forward to the log.

	16-07-2003 08:45									#179
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Catching up, and about to check out the public forum... this is gonna be good.

	16-07-2003 18:49									#180
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Interesting...

I'd kinda like to hear GoW's side of the MPP allegation. That's pretty serious.

Further, if I'm GoW, and RP offered to mash up ND with me and split the continent, I'd do it!

Our position is somewhat difficult. The NAP we agreed to with GoW ties our hands (30 turns!) such that we can't really help RP (not that I'm inclined to, but strategically it would make a certain amount of sense).

So I think we stick with the plan to hit RP and grab what we can... and then try to get GoW to fight ND with us.

-Arrian