25-03-2003 01:01									#211
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Received via email from Ghengis Farb:

quote: I am sending this via email as I can send it to all of you at once as opposed to the pm system at Apoly. Last night Jon Miller and Betahound approached me to work out a deal where they could found a city in old Luxia. They stressed that GS had control of all luxuries and resources on their continent and that were desperate to keep themselves "out of (GS'S) pocket". It was their opinion that GoW was pretty much in ND and Roleplay's pocket, which to some extent is true, and offered to form an alliance and declare war with us on ND. I pointed our that GoW would face the full brunt of that attack and we were not interested at this time. They also discussed an alliance of Vox/Gow against GS and Roleplay. I then agreed this might be more fair and suggested they move their galley and settler to the southern tip of our continent and form their colony their (I suspected they would not realize how far that was and just how long a 3 move galley would take to get there). Anyway, after much playing with them we ended up saying that these discussions are best left for the future as GoW is in no position to fight anyone on Bob right now. It is a possiblity that they carried on these discussions with another team also so you may want to be a bit wary. I am not convinced that GS is refusing to support them as I can see no logical reason why they would think they could take on ND, GoW, and Roleplay by themselves. Course, they could be using Lux strategy.

	25-03-2003 02:16									#212
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

PM from dissident

quote: RE: Trades... Greetings again. I'm sorry I didn't respond sooner. Perhaps we can discuss something today if you want to. As is publically known, we are in many dicussions with relations to our future. So things have been busy. quote: Hello Seńor Dissidente, we are very pleased by the trade purposal of your team, and we are indeed very interested. So we invite you to a meeting, please tell me the time and the date your teamgroups will be available, so that we can set ourselves. As for the crops, we are thankfull of your wishes for sucess for them,and we are happy to know your crops are groing strong and free from locust and such plagues. Our crops in Spăna are groing tall and strong, thank the spirits, as we have been blessed by the father god with fertille fields. Do you know the secrets of bread-making? My familly is very skilled in this and we would gladly teach you all how to produce it. Have a very nice and long crop! And may Luna El-Salvador bless you all! Nuclearis Winterius the II

	25-03-2003 05:14									#213
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

In chat with Vox. They offered:
165g for Monotheism ... 5gpt + 65g lump sum.
or
11gpt for Monotheism + Currency.

I have taken their offer under consideration. Discussions about this offer should be made in another thread.

--Togas

	25-03-2003 09:51									#214
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Sent to Darekill & Ghengis Farb

quote: We discovered this new Vox city when we opened up the save ... as I'm sure each of you did. It was my understanding from our chat with Vox yesterday that they were going to only "take a look" around and then leave. They founded this city despite our warnings and our pleas to vacate. This is a clear invocation of our Pact. Please let me know what Spain can do to help remove this city from our continent. --Togas

	25-03-2003 21:25									#215
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from Darekill

quote: Dear Togas, we were surprised just like you to see what Vox has done. It apears to us they are as treacherous as Lux was before and who knows what they made Lux belive when they gave them a city. I see it also as an invocation of our Pact. If you want to help us the best thing to do was to declare war on them and send some Troops. If you can not do that maybe yo ucan send some vessels just to cut and block their supply lines. Everything that you are willing to do will be o.k. we do not demand anything from you, because we trust in you as friends to do whatever you can to throw vox back out of Borconia (Bob Terra Nostra). With best wishes Darekill Governor of Neu Demogyptica

	27-03-2003 01:46									#216
	Inflate your Upload Space

from Betahound:

quote: Togas - esteemed leader of the people of the squid, Greetings, sir! First off I would like to advise you that Dissident has been inovolved in a mystical experience at the temple in The Voice - something called real life. We are not sure when he will re-emerge from the temple, so during this period of his transcendance, could you please direct correspondence to me. Jon will asssign a new foreign affairs advisor to you shortly. Thank-you. On the matters of trade, we await your response to our earlier trade discussion. We would like to finalize it from our end. In fact, we would like to offer an expansion of the deal to include the Republic, at a cost of 160 gold payable as 8 gpt over 20 turns. This would make the combined deal one of currency, monotheism, and republic in exchange for 19 gold per turn for 20 turns. We would also insist that this deal be kept strictly confidential. You are free of course, to trade further any of these techs, as long as the source is not identified. Please let me know as soon as possible regarding this deal, as we expect to have the techs shortly. I cannot recall if you have construction, or have made previous arrangements to receive it, but if not, we could also offer it to you at a highly discounted rate. I trust all is well with you and your fine nation. Regards .... Beta Voice of Foreign Affairs Vox Controli

NucWinter -- Contact Vox immediately. Tell them no Republic. Ask what price they're asking for Construction and let them know that we are very seriously considering a Legoland Proposal to give us Currency & Construction.

--Togas

	27-03-2003 03:13									#217
	Tired of ads?

Have heard back from Panzer on the two deals I was instructed to find out about.

quote: Originally posted by Togas adaMada -- Find out if GoW wants to split the cost of investigating Arneblanca, the ND coastal city, with us. Cost to them is 10g.

Sounds like they'll accept it -- From Panzer's PM: (Mainly posting because I've never done one of these deals before, and though the proceedure he listed below is my understanding, I wanted to check it).

quote: 1. I have proposed this and it looks like we will supply you with the 10 gold to investigate Arneblanca. I guess it will work like: we give and accept 10 gold to you; then we send save to you; you accept 10 gold, and then investigate Arneblanca, then send the screenshot to us via email.

quote: Originally posted by Togas AdaMada -- Contact GoW and inform them that we will have Monarchy soon, and that we'd like to start discussing possible trades/sales of the tech. Tell them that we'd like to aquire Construction + 150 gold for it ... we are presently negotiating with ND for Currency. --Togas

I offered this to them as instructed, and it sounds like they aren't going to take it.

quote: 2. It does not look like our side is supportive of this deal at this current time. Please either change the deal or wait awhile before offering it again.

I'm guessing that they dislike the amount of gold (though I guess it's possible they don't want Monarchy that much, it'd seem crucial for a warfaring nation). If anyone has any suggestions as to other deals we could do with them, please let me know. Togas -- is there any room for negotation, or if we can't come up with another deal will they just be without Monarchy ?

-- adaMada

	27-03-2003 03:47									#218
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Pm to Betahound,

quote: Hello, I am Nuclearis Winterius the II, as you may recall, ambassdor of RP to Vox Controli. I bring a message concerning the recent trade purposals between our teams. We have no present interest in Republic, as the Depsot declared such a knowledge high treason, and we Spaniards are no traitors, but we do have interest in construction, and we would like to know what price would your team request for it, and also the price for Currency, but we are not sure we will do this deal with your team ,as Legoland has also made some offers in that area. Anyway I personally will try my best to reach an agreement between our teams. As for Diplomatic Issues related to RP, please contact me, as Ambassdor at The Voice. Even though Togas greatly appreciates talking to your team members, he cannot afford to answer to your team always, as he is very involved with the planing of our nation and with RL issues. Until then, Nuclearis Winterius the II

As you can notice, I took the liberty to ask teh price of Currency, hope it soesn´t goes agains any of our team´s interests,
Nuclear

	27-03-2003 07:05									#219
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sent the following message to Vox when I emailed the save:

quote: We noticed that GoW now owns your city. It wasn't razed. You guys agree to peace with them? Btw, what happened to your iron??? Also, please contact Nuclear Winter about diplomatic issues. I'm happy to hear them personally, but he was getting downhearted today about how he isn't being included in diplomatic PMs, and I told him I'd remind Vox to be sure to PM him. I received your PM about the tech trade. I have posted it and given Nuc Winter instructions to reply to you. If you don't receive something from him by tomorrow, let me know and I'll deal with it.

Nuc Winter -- Get in touch with them soon about these questions and issues, try to get to the bottom of their sudden gift of a city to GoW.

--Togas

	27-03-2003 08:15									#220
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Just got hte following message from Panzer. Looks like Cash is an issue for them (unless they're lying, which is possible) -- perhaps we can exploit that by offering them less cash than they'd normally take for something? They might be lying, but I'm not sure why they'd bother...

-- adaMada

quote: adaMada, The Glory of War is strapped for cash lately, and we might not be able to help you investigate Arneblanca for 10 gold. However, we might be interested in doing this in 15 turns. Thank You Panzer32 Foreign Affairs Consul for the Glory of War

	27-03-2003 09:13									#221
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

AdaMada -- We are the only ones with Monarchy. If they want it, they're going to have to pay us for it. However, I am curious what they can offer us for Monarchy. Find out. We certainly don't have to take it.

Also find out what happened with Vox and how they ended up with that city and if the war is still going on.

--Togas

	27-03-2003 16:30									#222
	Tired of ads?

PM from Darekill: re my informing him of GoW's taking of "Port of Isolation".

quote: quote: Togas has just played our turn on the save and he noticed something... the Vox city that they established in defiance of our requests that they respect our nations' borders now belongs to Glory of War, and has been retitled "Port of Isolation". In light of this news, what does you team think? Did you guys know or suspect this was going to happen? If this changes the state of affairs between you and GoW, then let us know so we can plan our responses together. The power balance is difficult to determine, and we need to be ready for anything. Regards MWIA. No, we had no reason so far to be suspicious. Maybe it was a lucky strike? We don't know now what might have happened. We'll check it. since our Swordsman are only a few turns away from the Battlesite. I thank you for sharing this info with me. If i find out whats going on there i'll let you know. Greetings Darekill governor of Neu Demogyptica.

It appears Darekill believes the capture was due to military action, whereas we believe at this time that GoW was gifted the city as part of some settlement scheme with Vox. This in itself is interesting.

NOTE: I'm not sure how many know this but in the ND diplomacy thread (main forum) Darekill has officially stated they are at war with Vox. His lack of knowledge of GoW's state of affairs with Vox is indication they are not allied against Vox, or Darekill is simply trying to confuse. But you gotta trust someone some of the time, and I believe that Darekill is in the dark here.

	27-03-2003 18:42									#223
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Togas,

Maybe I'm missing something, but I would have the World Map from Lego & Vox & GS.....

	27-03-2003 21:49									#224
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quote: Originally posted by astrologix Togas, Maybe I'm missing something, but I would have the World Map from Lego & Vox & GS.....

What on earth are you talking about?

--Togas

	27-03-2003 22:04									#225
	Put an end to popups!

We got a World Map from GoW...

Why couldn't we trade our for their from Lego ? Or am I completely ?

	27-03-2003 22:34									#226
	Put an end to popups!

It should be noted that Vox posted in the public forum that they "sold" their city to GoW, removed the troops, and effectively ended this very short war.

More discussion on this and other topics will be in the resurrected Diplomacy Analysis thread.

--Togas

	28-03-2003 23:44									#227
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Deal with Vox for COnstruction and Currency for 20 gold and 2gpt.
Deal agreed for when tehy get monotheísm (in 3 to 6 turns) for and 40 gold and 6 gpt.

	29-03-2003 03:27									#228
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Pm received from Betahound:

quote: Re: Re: Trade I confirm acceptance of this deal for Vox Controli, on the condition that the terms stay strictly confidential between RolePlay and Vox C. Please confirm the same. Many thanks. BetaHound quote: Nuclear Winter wrote on 28-03-2003 13:08: Hello friend, that message was old, what we discussed in the chat preceeds that. so for this turn it is 20 gold and 2gpt for currency and construction, and as soon as you get it we will pay 40 gold and 6gpt for monotheism. Thanks and sorry for the confusion (that message was sent before the chat, not after ) Nuclearis Winterius the II

	29-03-2003 17:29									#229
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Interesting little update from Darekill of ND...

quote: GoW has played foul. We don't like what we see. There are tensions and i want to know what Spain thinks about it.

IMO we must be prepared to unite with ND to deal with GoW's idiocy.

	29-03-2003 23:19									#230
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt IMO we must be prepared to unite with ND to deal with GoW's idiocy.

Agreed.

Mr.WIA -- feel free to contact Darekill to inform him that Spain was stunned and confused by GoW's opportunistic aquisition of this city. We hope that ND and GoW can work something out to compensate ND for the city.

--Togas

note: We want to carefully poison relations between the two while seeming to be peaceful and friendly and neutral.

	30-03-2003 00:51									#231
	Put an end to popups!

Pm from Betahound:

quote: Hi NW, my friend. Togas sent this with the save tonight: "We have offered 20g and 2gpt. Please offer Constr + Currency and hit "accept"" I would love to, but as explained in our chat, we will have the techs in a couple of turns and then monotheism the turn after. Please be patient. The deal is finalized and will go through as agreed. Cheers ... BetaHound

Explains lots of things, eh?

	30-03-2003 22:06									#232
	Full PM-box? Change here!

GRRR! That Betahound!

quote: trade deal and timing Greetings Togas and Nuclearis Winterius. Your recent e-mail accompanying the save read: "we offered again. Please give us an idea of when you will have the technology as we were under the impression that you had it now." My apologies. I thought it was clear when we were doing the deal - I mentioned the 4th and 5th turn arrangement - I believe. But I have better news than that. It will be this turn or the next. So please offer again, and the deal will be finalized shortly. Thank-you. Once again my aplogies for the misunderstanding. It was not in any way an attempt to deceive on our part. I assure you of that. And once again - it was a pleasure doing business with you. Regards .... BetaHound.

NO commments
And now I am Pming him to see if they will have mono this next turn already or not .

	31-03-2003 02:03									#233
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Thud -- You are still the Legoland ambassador. Aidun took over to complete this treaty during a Spain-Legoland meeting were were having a few days ago. However, Aidun was very successful with the negotiations and should be able to assist on this next project.

We need a map of Legoland.

We need this to be able to carry out our defense of Legoland and to understand what their claimed territory is. We can offer our WM in exchange.

Rumor has it that Legoland bought a map of our continent from ND. Find out if this is true, if it is, STILL push for their WM for ours, and try to get the price as low as possible.

--Togas

Last edited by Togas on 31-03-2003 at 02:37

	31-03-2003 02:08									#234
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

It is a fine plan, I am sure, Senor Where-Its-At...but I would be wary. If the Warmongers are destroyed, it can only be by the Arabs, for they stand between them and us. We cannot benefit, only they can grow.

	31-03-2003 02:53									#235
	Chat with BetaHound Inflate your Upload Space

I am posting the chat log of the talk I had with beta,

quote: Hello * NuclearisWinterius takes off his helmet and bows BetaHound> hello - sorry about that - BetaHound> I misintepreted completely your letter BetaHound> I assume the deal is still on. NuclearisWinterius> It is NuclearisWinterius> When will we have those techs, can I know? BetaHound> OK. Well then - ignore my postruing and ranting please - even if it was poorly done. BetaHound> Yes - it should be this turn. NuclearisWinterius> Anyway It was quite unpleasant to have the deal denyed for 2 times eh? NuclearisWinterius> All ´em three? BetaHound> If the game allows us to send you all three at the same time - we will do that. NuclearisWinterius> Well, you could do some discount for the delay eh? BetaHound> NuclearisWinterius> After all that was considering we´d get em that turn BetaHound> No - I was clear in the negotiations that we would have them shortly. BetaHound> Man - you guys are tough negotiators. NuclearisWinterius> I tought that you would have monotheism later BetaHound> You are getting currency and constr for a song NuclearisWinterius> that is why i wanted to know it separatedly BetaHound> and mono cheaper than anyone else. BetaHound> And that is a fact. So please - I am getting enough grief over this deal at home - many thought I sold it too cheap - as we are the only source. NuclearisWinterius> I got a lot of grief thanks to this delay NuclearisWinterius> Tögas was angry BetaHound> So please - let us just stick to the deal - get it done. In future we will need to be more precise about the trems so such misunderstandings don't occur. BetaHound> Understood. As was jon with me. BetaHound> NuclearisWinterius> OK NuclearisWinterius> NP BetaHound> OK. NuclearisWinterius> why was jon angry? BetaHound> The low price - no one else got it for less than 200 BetaHound> And all upfront. BetaHound> So please - be quiet. NuclearisWinterius> bah BetaHound> True. NuclearisWinterius> tell him that we are the team wich had the most chances of being deal aprtners to your team BetaHound> Yes - that is the way we see it too - and is the argument I used. BetaHound> Anyways - I should be going. NuclearisWinterius> PErsonally, TOgas told me many times that I had gone ´´native´´ to Vox, and he questioned many things, as when we offered you the prefered trade nation deal BetaHound> hmm NuclearisWinterius> he told me´´We don´t have all that trade going on with them, and you want to give ´em a prefered status?´´ NuclearisWinterius> Arnelos was the worst, thouhg BetaHound> But it makes sense - we are not a local threat. We are the last place team. This will work. BetaHound> Eventually peace will crack on the continent - and well - friends will be usefull. NuclearisWinterius> We hope to avoid teh cracking of peace BetaHound> Anyways - I have to be going. Again - my apologies. Peace. NuclearisWinterius> Peace! BetaHound> see ya later NuclearisWinterius> see ya ! Session Close: Sun Mar 30 16:48:34 2003 Session Start: Sun Mar 30 16:52:05 2003 Session Ident: BetaHound NuclearisWinterius> Hey NuclearisWinterius> BTw, answer me a question BetaHound> yup BetaHound> sure BetaHound> I'm here NuclearisWinterius> Oh, sorry NuclearisWinterius> I was reading something at CFC NuclearisWinterius> Well, I´d like to know what was this deal of a intercontinental war NuclearisWinterius> GoW would keep whining about it, but we didn´t really understand BetaHound> done? NuclearisWinterius> with what? BetaHound> your question NuclearisWinterius> yes BetaHound> Was it the last dust-up he was talking about? NuclearisWinterius> I hope this can be answered without causing any constraintment NuclearisWinterius> I guess so BetaHound> yes - np. BetaHound> Ok - sorry - had to go to the boys room. NuclearisWinterius> boys room? NuclearisWinterius> Ah the team room NuclearisWinterius> I hope I am not delving too much into Vox´s affairs NuclearisWinterius> Above all my objective is to be a friend of your team, and to develop friendship among our teams BetaHound> If he was talking intercontinental war - it was probably one of two things. Him gloating about how we left the continent with our tails between our legs - whicj we did - and left a city behind - well - handed it over to keep the peace. BetaHound> yes - understtod. BetaHound> Or - it could be related to all the other rumors going around. Including teh ones where we 'invade' the islands. Which I preseume means taking out Leg, GS a, nad vox, but I am not sure of the order. BetaHound> We being NeuD and GoW - and GoW trying to recruit our help. BetaHound> We listened, and discussed, but as it was part and parcel of a conversation (NeuD was not there BTW) where we wre getting the boot from Bob, I don't put much stock in anyof it. NuclearisWinterius> PLease, I didn´t get the part ´´Which I preseume means taking out Leg, GS a, nad vox, but I am not sure of the order.´´ BetaHound> If there was a plan to invade the islands - which as far as I know - there is not - or at least we are not involved - it would mean an invasion of Estonia and Legos - and by definition - the targetting of the three civs on those islands. BetaHound> Have you had conversations with Ghengis? NuclearisWinterius> not me personally NuclearisWinterius> You mean he is planning on invading Gs or Vox? BetaHound> well - he is a bit non-linear BetaHound> No - I don't think he is. BetaHound> But when you talk to him - every option imaginable gets put on the table. See? BetaHound> Then it becomes difficult to try and figure out what is for real, and what is dreaming. NuclearisWinterius> ah BetaHound> So - have I been in a chat where Ghengis talked about invading every other civ in the world - yes. NuclearisWinterius> No, in fact he was talking about the city incident before you gave that city back NuclearisWinterius> Even RP? BetaHound> Do I think he is really planning on doing any of this in the short term. no BetaHound> Yes - well that was in the works to allow us to get our troops out. BetaHound> We really didn't expect to get found out so quickly. That surprised us. We thought we had 10 turns or so to consolidate and reinforce. BetaHound> NuclearisWinterius> Your team is in high need of land, ain´t it? BetaHound> big time NuclearisWinterius> hmm, any idea on where to go? BetaHound> nope- we are hoping that galleys will show us some serious sized islands around. BetaHound> We are consolidating the land that we do have - and making the most of it. We still have some grwoth poetential. BetaHound> So- question from me? BetaHound> Will RP ever be supportive of Vox settling on the far corner of Bob? NuclearisWinterius> What does VOx means by ´´Far Corner´´ BetaHound> Up where we are. the far north-east. Old Luxia. NuclearisWinterius> I personally am pro it, though the team is a bit uncertain on it BetaHound> because of the NeuD and GoW implication? Right? BetaHound> It makes great sense from Vox's perspective, let me tell you. BetaHound> Time will tell. BetaHound> Listen I gotta go. NuclearisWinterius> ok, I will try to PM you as soon as possible BetaHound> K- as soon as we get the save - I will let you know what's up. NuclearisWinterius> And I will try to convince the despot to consider supporting vox, though I promise nothing BetaHound> OK - thanks,Take care my friend. NuclearisWinterius> Also, I´d like that, if possible, BetaHound> yes NuclearisWinterius> your team could keep me a lil more in the light of international events NuclearisWinterius> you see, we may be of aid, even if not explicit one NuclearisWinterius> Take care pal, see ya, BetaHound> OK - understood. Thanks see ya Session Close: Sun Mar 30 17:20:43 2003

Many things on this one, though the most importants are that we will ,pay all the deal on the next turn and get all three techs.
Besides, there is a lot of talk on the world´s current status. Jsut to clarify most f what I said here is to mislead him into thinking I´ve gone native and aid our plans.
About supporting them in the colonization of old Luxia is to be discussed on another thread,
nuclearis Winterius the II

	31-03-2003 03:02									#236
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To all ambassadors -- Let's see if we can try to sell a few of these new techs to our neighbors to recoup our costs.

Monarchy = 200g
Construction = 150g
Currency = 100g
Monotheism = 200g

These are merely opening bids, we will take less $$ for the techs. If a nation says they can't afford it, ask them to bid lower with one exception ... GoW. We are the ONLY nation with Monarchy, and they either have to buy it from us or go without.

GoW -- Try to sell Monotheism.
ND -- Needs all of the above but working on Currency and doesn't want Monarchy
GS -- may want Monotheism, but probably not.
Vox -- no trades.
Legoland -- Needs Monotheism. Don't underbid too much, these guys are in the tech lead.

Please get to work on this NOW. Get tech deals for these techs going ASAP as Vox and Legoland are going to also be trying to sell them.

--Togas

Last edited by Togas on 31-03-2003 at 22:05

	31-03-2003 22:14									#237
	Support Apolyton

Mr.WIA -- Contact ND and talk to them about why they're trading Iron to GoW. We're concerned. GoW is such a force of chaos, if we had simply kept them from iron they would be no threat to any of us in the middle ages.

Get their thoughts on this topic.

--Togas

	01-04-2003 03:46									#238
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By Beta:

quote: Re: Trade confusion We should have all three this turn. At the latest next turn. But we can only provide you with currency and construction on the first trade - and then monotheism on the second as discussed. You need the first two to enter the middle ages - and then we can pass monotheism - as was our agreement. I trust this agreement still holds. Both sides committed to it.

Ah, the pain!

Togas, we send the currency+construction payment this turn, and send teh monotheism payment next turn,a s soon as we are middle ages.
Sorry for this mistake, please have it clear that it is all BEtaHound´s fault, not mine.

Have a nice day,
Nuclearis Winterius II

	01-04-2003 04:00									#239
	Remove this text

quote: Greetings Nuclearis Winterius II. Thank-you gain for our engaging discussion this afternoon. And now I have good news. Construction and Currency have both been sent to you as accepted. I could not send Monotheism as you are not yet in the middle ages. We will on our next turn. To simplify the deal - you can either send us the payment as agreed for the first part - as accepted, or payment on both parts of the deal as accepted. Either way will work for us. We will send Monotheism next turn. Again - we have enjoyed doing business with you, and look forward to productive dealings for both our civilizations in the future. My best regards to you, and Togas, and the other citizens of your civilization ..... Beta.

This explains, we can send all teh money this turn hitting accept, and next turn be gifted mono.
Have a nice day,
Nuc

	01-04-2003 09:42									#240
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quote: Originally posted by Togas Mr.WIA -- Contact ND and talk to them about why they're trading Iron to GoW. We're concerned. GoW is such a force of chaos, if we had simply kept them from iron they would be no threat to any of us in the middle ages. Get their thoughts on this topic. --Togas

Will do...