11-04-2003 01:57									#271
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Can I offer them 100g + 7gpt for being the first civ to have Feudalism?

	11-04-2003 02:03									#272
	Get a bigger avatar today!

If GoW would go squarely for Feud (I don't think they have done it so far, but let's assume for a moment), how long would it take them to research the tech, if we do not research and trade it onwards first? is 10 turns from now a reasonable guess? We were at 4 turns from now (IIRC) at 60+ beakers per turn on average, they can have at most have what, 40 beakers?

I do see the possibility of GoW trading Feud onwards, if they are lying to us now, there is no reason to not lie to us in the near future. In which case, there also is no reason to keep gpt deals with us, that's another 100 gold saved. And they can sell the tech happily to RP too.

So, could we ask for some confirmation, in the form of a screenshot of Vox's invasion forces near Port isolation? They claim there are a couple of units there, and more galleys heading North. That's a lot of galleys for Vox (at least 4), I would rather think Vox has either 1 galley (the one we saw), or in case it is attacking GoW 3. So, if they can show a screenshot, we will show a screenshot of Vox's incoming immortals to them.

I know they can quite easily photopaint a picture together, and of course they should black out their force information, but at least it's a start, we can see their reaction to this question.

If we are asked why, we can say that RP's machinations are getting us paranoid, and we can't be 100% sure that they don't have a invasion force closeby to attack us, instead of Vox.

DeepO

	11-04-2003 02:04									#273
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

One sec, Shiber. Let's first make sure they are honest with us. If that is the case, I still don't think we can do that, as we have other teams to take care of.

DeepO

	11-04-2003 02:06									#274
	Remove this text

Feudalism as late as possible to the rest of the world is goign to be best. Getting it out 3 turns sooner for 40g isn't a good deal.

	11-04-2003 02:11									#275
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

So, we keep to a 6 turn ETA, then? We can negotiate from there onwards.

DeepO

	11-04-2003 02:14									#276
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

It gives us more time to get the deals in place, and it makes it less likely anyone will go for 'wait a few turns and get it from us for cheaper when the NDA expires'.

	11-04-2003 02:16									#277
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I'm sorry if I was wrong to speak positively for that deal. I got the impression that we were going to take it if the payment is largely in cash.

Hey, here's a nifty idea: let's tell them that we've acquired maps that allow us to see a path all the way to [insert name of GoW city that has the harbor], and that we will be able to trade soon. We ask that GoW throws a 20-turn supply of wines into this deal as well, starting from a few turns from now (we will let them know, when we complete a harbor on our side).
How long before we can have a working harbor? What if we switch Typhoon into building a harbor and finish the rest with cash-rushing - how much that would cost? Wines would compensate for that rush if we can reduce our lux slider by 10% as a result; with furs, incense being connected and wines we could keep at just 10% lux, right?

Edit: read DeepO's post. Yes, that seems fair, so add a screenshot to this deal as well. 100 gold, 5 gpt, wines for 20 turns and a screenshot.

	11-04-2003 02:24									#278
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Well, the thing I saw first was that we would get 20 gpt for giving it early, which was a lot better deal. Now... it doesn't appeal much, but we have to make sure GoW is not offended, they have been dificult enough.

As to the wines: a harbor is absolutely no priority right now, I don't think it will be easy to fit that into our plans. Further, I wouldn't tell that we have a map, let them come forward with this information first (Vox has seen the tile where Monsoon is, so if they traded their WM to GoW, GoW sees the same trade route as we see).
And lastly: wines is worth zip right now. It doesn't get us to reduce the luxury slider I think, so it's not worth the trouble. If they had two luxs to share, we would be talking, though

DeepO

	11-04-2003 02:26									#279
	Support Apolyton

Oh, BTW, there was nothing wrong with speaking positive for it, as long as you say it was your personal view, and the team needs to discuss it (which you did). I too find it extremely difficult to be objective as an ambassador, but that's the way it is supposed to be, an ambassador is a middle man between two teams. We just need to be careful we never rush things, and never give the impression that something we might agree on is also the teams view on this.

DeepO

	11-04-2003 02:29									#280
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

They have spices within their cultural boundaries. It's not connected yet, but if we can secure a deal for 100 gold and 5 gpt now and spices + wines later, should we take it?

	11-04-2003 02:30									#281
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

/join #GoW bored
(bored is the channel password)

	11-04-2003 02:36									#282
	Remove this text

We could switch Sufa to a Harbor.

	11-04-2003 02:37									#283
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Shiber, still not... it would be better, but let's just offer them Feud in less then 6 turns, and see what they think of this.

The problem with the lux deals is that we need to build that harbor, and they are not going to give us the tech to rush it. So, we will have to wait until the situation with Vox is getting resolved.

I'll try to join the chat, as support. Last time it took me half an hour to connect to 'poly, though.

DeepO

	11-04-2003 02:39									#284
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

But do we want to? That's one less galley to use, which could be very welcome in case we want to disturb Vox on their land soon.

DeepO

	11-04-2003 02:50									#285
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I can't say this is going well.

quote: [00:39] * Now talking in #GoW [00:39] Shiber: How could you guys possibly be bored? [00:39] Shiber: We're just getting to the exciting part [00:39] Shiber: Hello fellas [00:39] GhengisFarb: What' s up with the Feudalism trade? [00:40] Panzer32: GF knows more about the game than me [00:41] Shiber: We were wondering about the Voxian invasion force [00:41] Shiber: Just how big is it? [00:41] Shiber: Suggestion: set the channel to +p [00:41] GhengisFarb: They all got back on the Vox boats, to our knowledge there are no more Vox units on Bob, I think it was just a diversion to cover their real objective which was GS [00:42] Shiber: Previously Panzer32 told me that there are still Vox forces on Bob. [00:42] Shiber: What's going on? [00:42] GhengisFarb: Not now. [00:42] Panzer32: I was looking at the 750bc save [00:43] Panzer32: GF hadn't forwarded the 730bc [00:43] Shiber: You said earlier that you were getting the saves forwarded from GF. [00:43] Shiber: I asked you to look at the latest save and tell me. [00:44] Panzer32: I am, I got the 730bc after our chat [00:44] GhengisFarb: He does, we just got the 730 save a few hours ago so it probably depends on when you asked him. [00:44] Shiber: How long ago did he receive the save? [00:44] GhengisFarb: Course you should be aware of that as your held it hostage. [00:44] Panzer32: I got it almost exactly 2 hours ago [00:44] Panzer32: 3:43 compared to 5:39 now. [00:45] Shiber: Quite convenient. [00:46] Shiber: Are you cool with the 10 turns NDA? [00:46] GhengisFarb: This is utterly ridiculous. GS wants to fight a war against GOW because one GoW member didn't have the latest save loaded on his computer thats stupid [00:46] Panzer32: yup [00:46] Shiber: Ok, forget about that [00:46] Panzer32: (yes to 10 turn NDA) [00:46] GhengisFarb: We were until you called Panzer 32 a liar. [00:47] Shiber: GhengisFarb, GS is as paranoid as a nation in war should be. No more, no les. [00:47] Shiber: *less. [00:47] GhengisFarb: In fact the entire reason we are waiting to send the save was to get confirmation on that deal so we could send you the money this turn. [00:47] Shiber: Btw, you realize that it's 10 turns starting from when we give you Feudalism, not 10 turns from now. [00:47] Shiber: You still have 18 hours to go. [00:47] Panzer32: sure... just the same as 12 turns from now [00:48] GhengisFarb: You aren't getting any money from us this turn anymore. [00:48] Panzer32: never ming [00:48] Shiber: Very well. Research it yourselves. [00:48] Shiber: Or get it the turn that ND gets it. [00:48] Shiber: Feel free to kick me out of the channel any time now [00:49] GhengisFarb: YOu let your team know that THE ONLY reason this deal did not go through is because you came in here and immediately started calling Panzer a liar. [00:49] Shiber: Very well. [00:49] Shiber: So far, most of us on the private forum prefer to distribute Feudalism to all the teams at once [00:49] Shiber: There is no real incentive in GoW's offer [00:50] Panzer32: so what turn is that? [00:50] GhengisFarb: 100 gold now for upgrades? You are the most dishonest and two faced negotiator I have ever dealt with. [00:51] Shiber: I don't see when I was dishonest. [00:51] Shiber: Yesterday, I was speaking for myself. [00:51] Panzer32: calm down GF [00:51] Shiber: I like the deal, but almost all the rest of my teammates don't, apparently. [00:51] GhengisFarb: YOU offered this deal. Now YOU say its a useless deal when you ORIGINALY said it was the best deal for your team. Were lying the first time, or are you lying now? [00:52] Shiber: I already explained, I thought this was a good deal. Obviously though, I can't pass it if my teammates object. [00:52] * Aeson has joined #gow [00:52] Aeson: Hello [00:52] Shiber: GS isn't a dictatorship; in any case, if it was, I'm not the one sitting in the throne [00:52] Shiber: Hi Aeson [00:53] Aeson: We have a throne? [00:53] Shiber: Yes, I just built one in my garage. [00:53] Shiber: It's nothing fancy, but it's a start. [00:53] GhengisFarb: YOu just walked in hear and called Panxer a dirty liar and said GS doesn't want this deal because it is taking advantage of your team and and not in any way beneficial to your team. [00:54] -: *Aeson* how many luxuries do we need (other than incense, which should be connected soon, right?) before we can reduce the lux slider to 10%? [00:54] *Aeson* Like...5 I think... marketplaces does it with 3-4? [00:54] Shiber: It would be helpful if you could add quotes to your accusations, as I don't recall saying that. [00:54] *Aeson* we don't have a harbor soon enough to really matter though [00:54] Shiber: First of all, I explained that we are just being paranoid. [00:55] Shiber: Second of all, I was invited here by Panzer 32. [00:55] Shiber: Third, I did not say that you are taking advantage of us, just that it does not seem favorable to my teammates. [00:55] -: *Aeson* Oh. Bummer. [00:55] GhengisFarb: He didn't know you coming in here to start calling us names and proclaiming us as dishonest liars. [00:56] Shiber: I called you names [00:56] Shiber: *names? [00:56] Shiber: And I don't remember being invited to be shouted at. GhengisFarb, where is this leading? [00:56] GhengisFarb: Apparently, it is GS's philosophy that anyone not on your team is by default automatically liars. [00:56] Shiber: GhengisFarb, now you're just showing grudge. [00:57] Shiber: We have received information from several sources that we'd like to verify. You would probably have done the same. [00:57] Shiber: *If you were in our position [00:57] *Aeson* Can you post a transcript of what GF is misinterpreting? [00:57] Shiber: Again, we are at war - so naturally, we are paranoid. [00:58] GhengisFarb: We just got through moving all of our Horsemen to the coast to repel a Vox invasion that appears to have been nothing but a ruse and we have three galleys we can haul them across the strait to dicuss this situation in more detail with your team. [00:58] Shiber: There's no need to overreact, or take matters personally. [00:58] -: *Aeson* okay [00:58] Aeson: So you say there was no landing by Vox? [00:58] *Panzer32* I don't think this is going anywhere... could you PM me an alternate deal that your team would accept? [00:58] *Panzer32* (later is fine) [00:59] Shiber: Now now, you know that Horsemen are no real threat. [00:59] GhengisFarb: You called Panzer a liar three times in row when all he was doing was trying to answer your questions honestly. [00:59] -: *Panzer32* Yes, of course [00:59] -: *Panzer32* I'm really sorry that this happened [00:59] -: *Panzer32* Please, accept my apologies. I was just probing around, I didn't mean for anyone to take this personally [00:59] GhengisFarb: Fine, then you won't mind if we attack you with them. [00:59] *Panzer32* GF tends to overreact on things like this [00:59] *Panzer32* I know what you were trying to do [01:01] -: *Aeson* logs posted [01:01] Aeson: We both are at war with Vox right now. Surely we can find someway better than to go to war with each other.

	11-04-2003 02:55									#286
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

The chat continues. GhengisFarb is being an ass (although it was my fault, I should have known that he has such a short fuse), and Panzer32 is trying to get around him, asking me to send any offer than we could come up with to him directly, by PM.

	11-04-2003 02:58									#287
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Damn... And I can't get in. I constantly get brotheled or something, in which I have to wait another 5 minutes before connecting again

DeepO

	11-04-2003 03:04									#288
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Shiber, just tell them directly you were not calling them a liar, and want to aoplogise if that's what it sounded like, because it was not your intention. These guys need to be smeared a lot of syrip on their asses before accepting a friendly tone, it seems, so go smear syrip

DeepO

	11-04-2003 03:12									#289
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I'm all out of Syrup, if that's what you mean.
Gladly though, we found a common enemy - RP. GoW told us that RP told them pretty much what they told us about Lego a few turns ago. Maybe they're lying, but still, this suits RP very well.
So now that RP is our scapegoat, GF has calmed down.

That rascal, Togas...

Log:

quote: [01:01] Aeson: We both are at war with Vox right now. Surely we can find someway better than to go to war with each other. [01:02] *Aeson* ok... don't push GF any further... please [01:02] GhengisFarb: Talk to Shiber, he's the one that has tried to declare war on GOW two days in a row now. [01:02] -: *Aeson* my lips are sealed [01:03] Aeson: I include Shiber in 'we'. [01:03] GhengisFarb: Shiber is at war with Vox and GoW. The question is whether or not GS is at war with GoW. [01:05] Aeson: GS has not, and does not plan to, declare war on GoW. We see the mutual benefit of a friendship between us. [01:05] -: *Aeson* Panzer32 is privately messaging me, trying to get around GF and apologizing for him. That's good [01:06] *Aeson* [01:06] *Aeson* I read the logs, nothing there, GF is being a bit defensive. [01:06] Aeson: Can we discuss the trade now? [01:07] Panzer32: I'm going to have to go in maybe ~15 minutes [01:07] GhengisFarb: So then Shiber was not speaking for your team. In answer to your question, Vox landed troops on Bob, GoW and ND moved our Horsemen to repel them as called for in the Treaty of Bob, Roleplay never showed up. As of this turn all Vox units (that we are aware of) are no longer on Bob, they apparently reloaded their boats and left. [01:08] Aeson: If anything Shiber said was offensive to you, then I am sure he didn't mean it that way. Certainly GS doesn't mean to be offensive to our friends. [01:08] Shiber: GhengisFarb, I apologize; I think RP is trying to play us two against each other. [01:08] Aeson: We were concerned about that, they seem to want to focus entirely on us. [01:09] Panzer32: RP tries to play everybody against each other... [01:09] Aeson: How many Galleys were there? 2? [01:10] GhengisFarb: Togas has stated to me that he sees GS as the number one threat right now and that he wants Vox to either eliminate you or weaken you considerably. [01:10] Shiber: lol, he said the same thing to us about legoland [01:10] Shiber: That Togas... [01:10] Shiber: [01:10] GhengisFarb: I have only seen one Vox galley at a time, but their may be more than one and all but one remain out of our vision on a turn by turn basis [01:11] Aeson: Thanks for the information. [01:11] Aeson: We thought they would have 2 Galleys that could land near our territory this next turn, but if they delayed up north to withdraw troops it gives us more time to prepare. [01:11] Shiber: Can you please tell us how many Vox units actually landed on Bob? (if any) [01:11] GhengisFarb: Four [01:12] Shiber: That probably means that they used one galley [01:12] GhengisFarb: Immortals and one Spearman [01:12] Aeson: And they landed 2 Immortals on our E coast, about 5 tiles north of our Borders [01:14] Shiber: one galley is enough to transfer 4 units from Vox to Bob [01:14] Aeson: The pressing issue is the trade though. I posted the proposal on the GS message boards, and there hasn't been much comment on it. [01:15] GhengisFarb: Not on one turn [01:15] GhengisFarb: Maybe on one turn, its a very narrow gap between our continents. [01:16] Aeson: They can load 2, move into Wittlich (sp?), unload all, move back out, and stick 2 more in. Of course it depends on exactly where they were landed [01:16] Aeson: As they have a Galley on our East coast, we find that most likely. [01:16] Aeson: Vox doesn't have the production capacity for much of a navy at this point. [01:16] GhengisFarb: They weren't in a position to do that, I dont think [01:18] Aeson: It would have required them to be on the Hill closest to the channel. [01:18] GhengisFarb: They may have disbanded the Spearman nad Regular Immortal though. [01:18] Aeson: That could be. [01:19] Aeson: We will prepare for 2 Galleys, and hope for 1 [01:19] GhengisFarb: IT could be another ruse to make it seem like they have more forces than they actually do. [01:20] * Aeson nods. [01:20] Aeson: We are reasonably certain as to their numbers. [01:21] GhengisFarb: How large a force do you think they have, if its not a team secret? [01:21] Aeson: The exact ratio of Immortals to Spearmen to Galleys is a bit up in the air though [01:21] -: *Aeson* Watch it, maybe he's eyeing Vox's territory. [01:21] Aeson: We know they had 9-10 warriors to upgrade before hooking up their Iron [01:22] Aeson: 2 of those are still accounted for, and will be upgraded in 2 and 3 turns respectively. [01:22] GhengisFarb: All Regular? [01:22] Aeson: Most

DeepO, have you tried the Java chat applet?

	11-04-2003 03:22									#290
	Tired of ads?

No, Java doesn't work on my pc. And yes, Syrup it was what I meant, but seems it is better now. Keep me informed, I just had a 15 minute throttle imposed on me, I give up trying to connect.

DeepO

	11-04-2003 03:28									#291
	Got spare money?

AMT there asking to get RoP to 'scout' our coasts in search for islands.

	11-04-2003 03:31									#292
	Got spare money?

Hmmm... would they be willing to share what they learn?

DeepO

	11-04-2003 03:31									#293
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

More logz.

quote: [01:22] Aeson: Most [01:22] Aeson: We only saw the outposts, so it's not certain [01:23] Aeson: The military advisor is decent for giving a handle on number of units. He just doesn't realize that 40g + Warrior = Sword...and completely ignores mobility [01:23] *alva* chat stil going on? [01:23] -: *alva* yes, /join #gow bored [01:23] Shiber: Alva wants to join, if noone minds. [01:24] GhengisFarb: Is the advisor strictly total unit number or does it take attack values into consideration? [01:24] Aeson: At the time they hooked up their Iron, this gave us a snapshot of how many Warriors they could have had at that point [01:24] GhengisFarb: Sure [01:24] * alva has joined #gow [01:24] alva: hi all [01:24] Aeson: It takes a/d values into consideration [01:24] GhengisFarb: Hi [01:24] Aeson: if it checks mobility, it is little to nothing of the rating [01:24] -: *alva* we're discussing the military advisor and our prediction of Vox's forces [01:24] Aeson: Have you seen the map of Vox's territory? [01:25] -: *alva* GF seems very interested. Maybe he's considering invading Vox himself? [01:25] -: *aeson* GF seems very interested. Maybe he's considering invading Vox himself? [01:25] Aeson: (not asking for it btw, they gave it to us before the war started) [01:25] GhengisFarb: Do want to trade us maps so we can see it? [01:25] GhengisFarb: [01:25] *alva* everyone is invading everyone [01:25] -: *alva* lol, i like the way that sounds [01:26] Shiber: We should discuss this in the forum. I'd be in favor though. [01:26] -: *Aeson* Not... [01:26] Aeson: It wasn't the most strategic of decisions. They are now fighting in the dark while we can see. [01:26] Aeson: We coudl possibly discuss a trade of that information. [01:26] Aeson: I would be in favor of trading screenshots at least. [01:26] Aeson: In game maps may be harder to swing. [01:27] GhengisFarb: We have ND/GoW/RP maps, the island between Legolas and us and a large chunk of Lego's coast. [01:27] Panzer32: in game maps = trading... but if you don't want to then whatever... [01:27] Panzer32: yeah, we have a large map [01:27] GhengisFarb: It would also open sea trade routes for your team to ND, GoW and Roleplay. [01:27] Shiber: Well, there's a problem with trading in-game maps. [01:28] Shiber: If we trade you our in-game map, we'd have to ask you not to distribute it for at least 10 turns, because of the situation with Vox., [01:28] GhengisFarb: That would be reasonable. [01:28] Shiber: That would mean that you won't be able to sell your world map to anyone at all, under these conditions [01:28] GhengisFarb: That just makes it more valuable in ten turns. [01:28] alva: I doubt we will get that approved though (in-game maps) [01:29] Shiber: I agree with alva. We are a paranoid bunch. [01:29] Shiber: But screenshots of Vox's territory would be fine, at least by me. [01:29] alva: we need to be for now [01:30] GhengisFarb: We have several galleys hugging coast (so they don't sink) looking for islands. [01:30] alva: hmm, yes, that could be done, maybe [01:30] Shiber: You wanted a sea RoP, right? [01:30] Panzer32: yeah [01:30] GhengisFarb: Yes [01:30] alva: whats rop again? [01:30] Shiber: I believe that you offered wines in exchange [01:31] Shiber: Rights of Passage [01:31] alva: [01:31] Aeson: I would be more inclined to support a map trade than a sea ROP. [01:31] GhengisFarb: We have one with Lego, they don't want to trade us their map but this allows us to go along the coast and look for islands. [01:31] Shiber: Technically, if you did your best possible to stay out of our cultural borders, I would be fine with it, and so would most of my teammates, I think; however, the payment doesn't seem suitable. [01:31] GhengisFarb: Absolutely no landing on home continents. [01:32] Aeson: Perhaps a trade of a screenshot of our coasts with all the land blacked out? [01:32] Shiber: Our economists tell me that wines are not of any worth to us, unfortunately. [01:32] Aeson: We have nothing of interest offshore I'm afraid. If we did it would be settled within a few turns. [01:32] GhengisFarb: That could be doctored, we are very leary of non game maps as several teams have grossly misrepresented their land positions. [01:32] Aeson: By offshore I mean that a galley could safely cross. We don't know anything beyond that [01:33] Aeson: That's fair. The Sea ROP and in game maps would be hard from our standpoint at this time. [01:34] GhengisFarb: But my mapping the outline of the continents we can tell where large unoccupied areas are and risk suicide galleys into those areas looking for subcontinents. [01:34] Shiber: GhengisFarb, what if we did the exploration around our continent, searching for islands that are reachable by galley, and reported to you if we found anything? [01:34] Shiber: That's just an idea, but it might work [01:35] GhengisFarb: We'd rather do it ourselves so our galleys can shoot off to any distant coastal glimpses they find. [01:35] Aeson: Where is your closest Galley? [01:35] Shiber: Thinking of building the Great Lighthouse? [01:35] GhengisFarb: Between our contient and Vox, fairly close to Grog Mountain. [01:36] GhengisFarb: No the Lighthouse expires .

	11-04-2003 03:32									#294
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Yep, troop info on vox, still it's sounds very risky to me.

	11-04-2003 03:33									#295
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

If their only goal is settling, they will take settlers with them, or they can't reasonably assume that we wouldn't be able to settle islands before them. Which is good, as they are scouts, but can't hold many military units for us to be afraid of.

Just 1 galley the next 10 turns though, at the very least. I don't want to deal with 4 'island scouts' soon

DeepO

	11-04-2003 03:36									#296
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: [00:33] No the Lighthouse expires . [00:35] Would GoW be interested in sending unit reports to GS about Vox movement along the roads nearby? Perhaps as part of a deal to allow your Galley to then move S through our borders (just about the whole coast is claimed). [00:35] At this time a Sea ROP with GoW is one sided, as we don't have any Galleys remotely near your shores. This could possibly be a way to make up the difference [00:35] If you will allow us to explore the coasts then we could give you troops reports on the Vox columns along the road. [00:37] It would require your Galley staying put for at least 5 turns. moving back and forth N and S. [00:37] we would be interested in a trade like that [00:37] I apologize, but I must go. RL is calling - emergency, I'm afraid. [00:37] Have you already moved the galley this turn? [00:37] The first one would continue on with the second one hanging out around Eliopolis. [00:37] Until Vox sinks it of course. [00:38] Isn't an island, that is (rather) close to us or vox more or less worthless to you? [00:38] I have to go too [00:38] No, not if it has Iron. [00:38] bye Shiber; all [00:38] bi [00:38] * Shiber holds hands with Panzer32 and walks out the door [00:38] lol [00:38] The area I was thinking of was on the coast NW of Grog mountain, down 3 tiles, and back up next turn. [00:38] [00:39] Bye Panzer [00:39] Or if its a big enough one worth building a Forbidden Palace on. [00:39] Cya everyone, I'll be back tomorrow. [00:39] Bye Panxer [00:39] Panzer [00:39] * Shiber has quit IRC (Quit: Shiber has no reason) [00:39] * Panzer32 has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) [00:39] Bye Shiber [00:39] There is a gap there that you would see any troops moving S along the road. [00:39] We see one column right now. [00:40] I can't give the final go ahead, but take a screenshot of that column for if/when the deal goes through ok? [00:41] Ok, I can tell you that your estimate to their force strenght is way off though. [00:41] We know that they have built Immortals/Spears regularly, I only commented on the Warriors they had to upgrade. [00:41] Sorry if I was misleading. [00:42] The rest of the analysis is based on Vox's cities and terrain, which was why I asked if you had seen it. [00:42] Understood. [00:42] They have several closely packed cities from what we can observe. [00:43] You have seen most everything of note of their terrain I'm thinking. Their land is very narrow.

	11-04-2003 03:37									#297
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Raise your hand if you think that GoW is just scouting to find islands.


Not so fast there Alva :P

	11-04-2003 03:40									#298
	Got spare money?

Just read the rest (this is strange, commenting on a delayed chat )

Good idea to ask about the lighthouse, but don't bring it up again.

Galleys: actually, I don't see how we could stop them, so I'm not against it. However, try to ask for a proposal on 1 galley only, for the time being. And make it in some way revokable by us, in which they have to head back the way they came, in exchange for us compensating 'breaking' the deal.

DeepO

	11-04-2003 03:40									#299
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Why do names not show up in my log?

	11-04-2003 03:41									#300
	Got spare money?

GoW is looking for iron