13-03-2003 03:07									#151
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I've sent Uno a message- nothing concrete said, except for us not wanting their relations with Lego to be hurt, and that we are discussing a proper compensation. Now all that we have to do is, well..., discuss a proper compensation!

	13-03-2003 03:14									#152
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I think we should inquire as to more specifics as to the deal they got from Lego (from Lego and/or GoW) to assertain just how much value CoL had.

This also could be a chance to make closer ties to GoW by not pressing for too much though.

	13-03-2003 03:28									#153
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Shouldn't we see, what they are offering to us to smooth things out ?

(Could give us a change to see;
1. how strong they think we are
2. How much they want to be friends with us)

	13-03-2003 03:34									#154
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One thought: it wouldn't be legoland, who broke the news to GoW, would it? They were already contacted by GoW, and GoW already knows that they want the initial deal to go through. Quite possibly, they let it slip that we told them that we had a deal with GoW. After all, it's also Lego's reputation at the line here. Maybe they just ackonweldge after GoW told them, maybe GoW was not aware of it until lego told them or maybe GoW discovered it simultanous with us... who knows

DeepO

	13-03-2003 04:08									#155
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Maybe i made a mistake when i told UnO were discussing a proper compensation, but it does seem he asked us to tell them if and what comensation is appropriate.

So, i guess i'll have to tell him something now- i could tell him we want them to offer the compensation, since we wouldn't want to put a strain on them, since we trust them to give us adequate compensation. We might win their respect, but lose material gain.

We should ask ourselves, first though, what do we want to gain? i don't see it as an option for strengthening the relations that much, since GoW will feel they owe us if they don't give something, or that we still resent them, and so forth, so i suggest we solve this in a most honest and quickest way possible, to leave as little hard feeling as possible.

As for material gain- i see Legoland contact as a symbolic "token", since the incident involves these newcomers and the lure of trade that comes with their arrival.

I just think the direct and honest way will work best this time.

	13-03-2003 04:17									#156
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What about starting from the value we asked for CoL to them, and deminish from there? They got it from us for the equivalent of 100 gold, let say we ask for something of value 75 gold, with lego's contact worth 40... so contact to lego and 35 gold.

Maybe even ask for the full price, although I doubt they would be going for that. I think that we should give them some slack, so half our initial price(=50), including 30 gold in the form of contact would make sense.

DeepO

	13-03-2003 06:08									#157
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If we were the only ones Lego could buy Code of Laws from, I'd want to push for more, but as it is, contact plus 30 gold seems like it would be reasonable to me. After all, Lego could potentially leverage the fact that RP and ND didn't sign non-disclosure agreements to drive down the price, or could even buy from one of them instead of from us. Contact plus thirty gold gives us the equivalent of a reasonable price for Code of Laws less a reasonable fee for receiving contact from GoW.

	13-03-2003 17:52									#158
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I don't care too much about the exact sum, but the reasoning behind the request matter alot.
Let's see if i got this right:

The deal was CoL for 100 gold, than MM fo 130. So, the CoL was worth 100 gold for the GoW when they got it. Since the value of CoL on the market is lower, as other teams can offer the tech, let's say it's value is 70 gold. A proper compensation in this case would be contact with Legoland- since it was this precious item, which GoW had a monopoly on, which they realized would be only temporary, that motivated the GoW to make such a deal, and violate the NWA. We value the contact with Lego as worth 40 gold. So, in conclusion, a proper compensation would be Contact with Lego, plus 30 gold.

	13-03-2003 18:11									#159
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Gow got Lego to trade with them, because they sold CoL, let's not forget that.

I still say we leave it up to GoW to determine what is a right compensation.

	13-03-2003 18:30									#160
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Perhaps- but what if they offer something pitiful in return- that leaves us with hard feeling, and they also might feel we think they still owe us, especially if they deliberately compensate us with mostly nothing.

Check HotE last message- he is looking for a way to repair the damage of this "second fiasco" as he puts it. Perhaps the best way to do that is to tell them what we expect them to give us.

	13-03-2003 19:28									#161
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quote: Perhaps- but what if they offer something pitiful in return

It will show how much they value our friendship, they should realize by now, they are starting to get in a rought spot on Bob.

They don't wan't anymore trouble with anyone else, even the contrary is true, I'm pretty sure they will want us for some (passive) protection (pretty soon).

	14-03-2003 00:27									#162
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I guess you were right alva- check GF's note to Sir Ralph.
They're willing to offer half the gold from Lego plus contact...

If only i've been here earlier, so i could have chat with GF, but well, there will be other times, and we do not hurry.

What do you say about this offer?- we don't know how much gold they got, but it does sound good. I say we take it- no point in bargaining over compensation, if they were the first to send an offer, and we find it acceptable, no reason not to go for it.

	14-03-2003 00:54									#163
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Their offer looks very appealing, but they may change their minds quicker than we expect, since there's some opposition to giving us compensation inside their team.
I suggest that we tell them that we want to "resolve this uncomfortable situation and move on as quickly and painlessly as possible" and close this deal before they go back on their offer.

	14-03-2003 00:54									#164
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Actually, GhengisFarb's wording was ambiguous. Did he mean contact plus half the gold from selling Philosophy, or did he mean half the gold from selling both Philosophy and contact? And if the latter, how does our obtaining contact fit into the picture?

	14-03-2003 01:30									#165
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Okay, i just got a PM from UnO, what they're suggesting is this:

1)Contact with Lego
2) Half the gold the got from trading for the Lego contact

[Edit- UnO also mentioned Philosophy, i guess he wasn't updated- as i told HotE we already have it]

It's not what i thought GF proposed, but it sounds good enough.
They want to get on with the game, which they're currently holding untill we hear from them, so its best to answer fast.

We could tell them, OTOH, that we havn't decided yet, but we allow them to carry on with the trade with Lego?
Please comment ASAP.

Last edited by zeit on 14-03-2003 at 01:40

	14-03-2003 01:41									#166
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Ask them to offer Lego to us for now, we can do the gold thing later

(have them sweat a little more )

	14-03-2003 01:49									#167
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alva- that's a lovely idea, since GF and UnO have offered two different things- save for contact with Lego, i'll tell them they can carry on with the turn, complete the deal with Lego, and send us the contact.
Any objections?

	14-03-2003 02:12									#168
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quote: Originally posted by zeit We could tell them, OTOH, that we havn't decided yet, but we allow them to carry on with the trade with Lego? Please comment ASAP.

IMHO, this is a bad idea. It'd be a lot harder for us to negotiate after they've completed the deal with Lego. Once the GoW-Lego trade goes through, they could come up and say that they were misunderstood, and they meant to propose a totally different compensation... and then we'd get dragged on and on with this issue.
I hope that we can come to an agreement fast, and accept their offer. Their compensation certainly sounds generous enough, and it yields a lot more than we could have made by selling CoL to Lego if this mishap would never have happened and we'd have to buy Lego's contact from GoW and then compete with RP and ND over selling CoL to Lego. Plus, if we settle this issue now it will improve our relations with GoW, whereas if we further delay them, the outcome would be the opposite.

	14-03-2003 02:58									#169
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I agree with Shiber.

	14-03-2003 06:34									#170
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I agree on that we shouldn't drag this- but i ask again- what is their offer?
GF said one thing, and UnO the other- if i say to one of them that we accept one of them- there might be an additional drag. So, what do we prefer?

If you accept both terms, those of GF and UnO's, we can tell them any of the following is acceptable, so that from our prespective, it's a done deal.

I thought of telling something along the lines of: "There were two , a bit different, offers for compensation, one from GhengisFarb and one from UnOrthOdOx. Both shared one thing, and it's Legoland contact, but were different in the additional gold compensation. I do not wish to influence the debate on your team, if such one exists, on what sum of gold is appropriate.
Any of these offers is adequate, and will allow the GoW-Lego deal to be carried out without any reservations from us.

In short, either contact with Lego plus half the gold you got from trading their contact, or half the gold you got from trading with Lego is fine by us. You may carry on with your deal, but please send us their contact, and a sum of gold that reflects one of these two offers.

	14-03-2003 06:47									#171
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I'll send them the message. I think it is a sort of compromise- we give them the freedom of sending us a sum of gold to their liking, as well as making sure it is an adeuqate offer for us, and we also don't drag since they are the ones who fix this misunderstanding, and decide what sum is to be sent.

	14-03-2003 10:07									#172
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Excellent message Zeit.

	14-03-2003 16:52									#173
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I got their reply- HotE's once again aplogizing, and GF's- he's details of what is the compensation are once again ambiguous, so i sent a thank along with asking for clarification.

	16-03-2003 05:35									#174
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Well, GoW's offering polytheism- they say they have closed deals with everyone save Vox and us...

Should we tell them we have already made an arrangement with Vox?

This is starting to get trickier and trickier, i don't if they'll pick up we have a tech alliance, by i'm sure they won't like hearing we have closed another deal with Vox.

Maybe it's time to tell them part of the truth- something like: "In light of the fast pace of tech trading on Bob, and the risk of deterioration in the relationship with Vox, given the fact that it's only the two of us on our continent, it was decided by both team that developing a closer trade relationship is a preferable path."

OTOH, we can just tell them we have closed a deal with Vox some time ago.

Or we could just tell them we are not interested in the tech right now.

What we choose to tell them now, might effect long term relationship with GoW- it's time to decide what we do with the tech partnership, and more urgently- what we tell, or not tell, GoW about it.

	16-03-2003 17:35									#175
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We don't need to tell GoW were a certain tech comes from... if we have a deal for polytheism, and will get it like that, it should be fine for them. Let them speculate where it comes from, if they want.

What does surprise me is that lego said that they would get construction from GoW, I wonder if they researched polytheism themselves, and are now only starting on construction, or if there is another party in play here.

DeepO

	16-03-2003 17:44									#176
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Hmm, you're right, it is getting tricky. I get the feeling that it would take more than that to blow the cover off of our tech alliance with Vox, since most people seem to think that Vox and ourselves are gearing up for war.
I propose that we tell them this: while we see GoW as our preferred tech partner on Bob, we're afraid that we have already closed a deal on this matter with Vox Controli some time ago, and Polytheism was part of that deal. Though we respect GoW much more than we respect Vox, a deal is a deal and we would be sorry to betray our word. However, if GoW has any plans to coordinate our mutual research in the next age, then we're all ears.

	16-03-2003 17:45									#177
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DeepO- according to UnO's note- which i didn't log (basically said the same thing) they popped a hut and got the tech- which means they're probably still researching whatever they were- unless he's bluffing- but why should he?

I'll just tell them we have other arrangement for acuiring Polytheism, without getting into too much details.

As they don't seem very stressed about it, waiting a bit won't hurt anyone- perhaps someone will come up with a brilliant idea on what to tell them...

	18-03-2003 01:28									#178
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Re: GF's chat with Sir Ralph:
I understand GoW's anger. It's primarily based on frustration, since so far, their only dealings with us were MM for CoL + 30g, which turned into MM + contact with Lego + some gold for CoL, due to GoW's screw-up on the NDA. The deal for Polytheism is the third deal that we rejected, if my memory serves me well (the other two were HBR and Philosophy).
He talks about a GS-Vox alliance, and a Bobian alliance against us. Maybe it's time to spread a little disinformation... or better yet, actually strike a fair deal with GoW.
I suggest the following: we contact GoW, tell them that we understand from GF how they must be feeling regarding recent events, and offer to coordinate our research in the Medieval era, and raise the possibility of a tech trade that involves Feudalism. Let's not mention ideas like Monotheism for Feudalism though (in fact let's not mention the word Monotheism at all at this point, unless we have to), as this would make it very clear that we have deals with Vox that extend into the Medieval era.

Btw, Sir Ralph, if you're reading this: I liked the way that you handled GF in the chat.

	18-03-2003 22:45									#179
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Like i already said, this is the time to sort things out with GoW- we can tell them we had a deal with Vox, but this one soon ends, and that we are sorry for that.

We can also tell them that they're bottom prices also hurt our interests- as we are the #1 researchers, so there's no point in being upset- deals can always be strucked for the benefit of both.

I'll send a message to HotE, and ask him that we meet for a chat, to sort things out...

	18-03-2003 22:50									#180
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I probably won't be able to participate in a chat due to timezone differences and RL schedule, but if and when you meet up, I advise that we mention Vox and our agreements as little as possible and focus on the future, and tech trading possibilities in the Medieval Age.