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notyoueither
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of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:26
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The crucial chat:
quote:
Session Start: Fri Jul 11 20:34:25 2003
Session Ident: #GoW_CoFA
[20:34] * Now talking in #GoW_CoFA
[20:34] *notyoueither* allo
[20:34] *nbarclay* Hi NYE.
[20:34] *MasterZen* one team which I shall not name
[20:35] *MasterZen* hey
[20:35] * MasterZen sets mode: +o notyoueither
[20:35] *MasterZen* who else from GS is coming?
[20:35] *notyoueither* Theseus said he may be by, and zeit if it is not too early for him.
[20:36] *MasterZen* ok
[20:37] *notyoueither* a moment of assistance?
[20:37] *MasterZen* yes?
[20:37] *notyoueither* how do you...
[20:37] *notyoueither* a) set a password for a channel?
[20:37] *notyoueither* b) hide a channel?
[20:38] *MasterZen* are you using mIRC?
[20:38] *notyoueither* yes
[20:38] *MasterZen* double-click on the screen
[20:38] *MasterZen* where it says Key is the password
[20:38] *MasterZen* then private and secret so no-one sees it listed
[20:38] *notyoueither* cool. thanks. have never done it
[20:38] * MasterZen changes topic to 'The Glory of Storms'
[20:40] *MasterZen* so, chat starts officially in 20 min right? (to see if I can do some stuff before...)
[20:40] *notyoueither* yes
[20:41] *MasterZen* ok
[20:41] *nbarclay* I'll be playing AU 402 but dropping by occasionally to see if anything's going on here.
[20:41] *MasterZen* ok
[20:41] *notyoueither* see the thread, nathan.
[20:46] * UnO|away is now known as [GoW]UnO
[20:47] *notyoueither* greetings
[20:47] *nbarclay* Hi.
[20:47] *[GoW]UnO* hey.
[20:47] *[GoW]UnO* I missed anything?
[20:47] *notyoueither* no
[20:47] * MasterZen is now known as [GoW]MasterZen
[20:47] *[GoW]MasterZen* nope
[20:47] *[GoW]UnO* Password...
[20:48] *notyoueither* waiting to see if zeit survived his adventures with sushi
[20:48] *[GoW]UnO* oh, someone answerd.
[20:48] *[GoW]UnO* catching up
[20:48] *[GoW]UnO* sushi, eh?
[20:48] *[GoW]UnO* There is not a sushi bar here I would trust
[20:48] *[GoW]UnO* I want to try it.
[20:49] *notyoueither* i posted the pw as Drategy in our forum already. i hope we can keep that one
[20:49] *[GoW]MasterZen* there's no pword set right now
[20:49] *notyoueither* zeit was making it himself *oh-oh smilie*
[20:49] * [GoW]UnO sets mode: +t
[20:49] * [GoW]UnO sets mode: +k Dtrategy
[20:49] *[GoW]MasterZen* homemade sushi... lol
[20:49] *[GoW]UnO* homemade...
[20:50] * [GoW]UnO shudders
[20:50] *notyoueither* yeah. one would not want to get it wrong
[20:50] *[GoW]UnO* mmmm mongolian bbq....
[20:51] *[GoW]MasterZen* I wouldn't trust myself making sushi
[20:51] *notyoueither* i don't trust myself to boil water
[20:51] *[GoW]UnO* I love to cook.
[20:52] *[GoW]UnO* never from a recipe either...
[20:52] *notyoueither* well. i can, if forced to. had to live on the cheap at uni.
[20:52] *[GoW]MasterZen* I like to cook too... but only to impress girls
[20:53] *[GoW]MasterZen* girls dig guys who cook
[20:53] *[GoW]UnO* that's how it started, yep.
[20:53] *notyoueither* i don't suppose ordering pizza counts
[20:53] *[GoW]UnO* My wife can't boib water, though.
[20:54] *[GoW]UnO* boil
[20:54] *[GoW]MasterZen* if it's 2nd day pizza or even 3rd.. you can forget about the 2nd date... :P
[20:54] *notyoueither* heh
[20:54] *notyoueither* brb
[20:55] *notyoueither* back
[20:56] *[GoW]UnO* Hm where's Panzer?
[20:56] *[GoW]MasterZen* i dunno
[20:57] *[GoW]UnO* he said held make it.
[20:57] *[GoW]MasterZen* he still has 3 minutes
[20:57] *[GoW]MasterZen* if not I'm calling a coup d'etat on him :P
[20:58] *[GoW]UnO* ok.
[20:58] *[GoW]UnO* just don't go making it public...
[20:58] *notyoueither* hehe
[20:58] *[GoW]UnO* 
[20:58] * Panzer32 has joined #gow_cofa
[20:59] *Panzer32* hi guys
[20:59] *[GoW]UnO* speak of the devil.
[20:59] *[GoW]UnO* MZ was about to overthrow you.
[20:59] *Panzer32* 
[20:59] *notyoueither* hello
[21:00] *nbarclay* Hi Panzer.
[21:00] *[GoW]MasterZen* yes, you were one minute away from a coup d'etat
[21:01] *[GoW]UnO* so, is zeit going to make it?
[21:01] *Panzer32* phew
[21:01] * [GoW]MasterZen sets mode: +o Panzer32
[21:01] *notyoueither* not for sure, although i think he wanted to.
[21:01] *notyoueither* do you want to wait a bit for him?
[21:01] *[GoW]UnO* We can.
[21:01] * GhengisFarb has joined #gow_cofa
[21:01] * [GoW]MasterZen sets mode: +o GhengisFarb
[21:01] *[GoW]UnO* My kids are now sleeping.
[21:01] * Panzer32 sets mode: +o GhengisFarb
[21:01] *notyoueither* perhaps that would be best. give him 5 minutes
[21:02] *[GoW]UnO* wife is working.
[21:02] *Panzer32* Uno - naturally or induced by you ?
[21:02] * Panzer32 leavs computer for 5 minutes
[21:02] *[GoW]UnO* their both sick, went willingly
[21:03] *[GoW]UnO* GF, why do I have 2 PBEMS?
[21:03] *[GoW]UnO* just checking my mail...
[21:04] *[GoW]UnO* are they both the same?
[21:04] *notyoueither* hi gf. i wasn't paying attention and missed the entrance
[21:05] *[GoW]UnO* GF is mute, didn't you know?
[21:05] *notyoueither* must be an imposter. the one i know is not
[21:05] *notyoueither* 
[21:05] *[GoW]UnO* Thats part of the maddness that has overcome him.
[21:06] *GhengisFarb* I sent one a week ago, but you never played it so I sent another one
[21:06] *notyoueither* ahhh, perhaps you can introduce shiber to him. you could hope for contagion.
[21:06] *notyoueither* in the story, anyways
[21:07] *[GoW]UnO* a week?
[21:07] * GhengisFarb is now known as CrazyGhengis
[21:07] *[GoW]UnO* one was the 8th...don't know how I missed it.
[21:07] *[GoW]UnO* Shiber's a good sport there.
[21:07] *Panzer32* back
[21:08] *notyoueither* yes. he is
[21:08] *[GoW]UnO* course, I didn't ask him to be completely insulted like I did MrWIA...
[21:08] *CrazyGhengis* ??
[21:08] *[GoW]UnO* that still cracks me up.
[21:08] *Panzer32* so will we wait longer for Zeit?
[21:08] *notyoueither* what did you do to dubya?
[21:08] *notyoueither* no. we can begin. thatnk you for waiting this long
[21:09] *[GoW]UnO* in the Jungle Gazette.
[21:09] *[GoW]UnO* He agreed to the sheep thing.
[21:09] *notyoueither* oh. that/ that was funny
[21:09] * Panzer32 is now known as [GoW]Panzer32
[21:09] *notyoueither* he is very good natured
[21:09] *[GoW]MasterZen* what team is CrazyGhengis on?
[21:09] *[GoW]UnO* his own.
[21:09] *[GoW]UnO* :P
[21:10] *[GoW]MasterZen* he should be like the "crazy eye"... Trip's evil alter ego
[21:10] *[GoW]UnO* the one who sees nothing?
[21:10] *[GoW]MasterZen* hahaha
[21:10] *[GoW]MasterZen* ok, shall we start?
[21:10] *[GoW]Panzer32* ok... lets get down to business; Unortho?
[21:10] *notyoueither* please proceed
[21:10] *[GoW]UnO* Im ready.
[21:10] *[GoW]UnO* let me get the notes
[21:11] *notyoueither* could you give me a moment?
[21:11] *[GoW]MasterZen* sure
[21:11] *[GoW]MasterZen* me too
[21:11] *notyoueither* thanks. brb
[21:13] *notyoueither* back
[21:13] *[GoW]UnO* do do do de do do do
[21:13] *[GoW]UnO* hi.
[21:13] *[GoW]UnO* ready?
[21:13] *notyoueither* yes
[21:13] *[GoW]MasterZen* back
[21:13] *[GoW]UnO* Ok.
[21:13] *[GoW]UnO* WOuld it be safe to say GS policy is influenced by their experience with Vox?
[21:14] *nbarclay* In what way?
[21:14] *[GoW]UnO* in general
[21:14] *notyoueither* yes. and with everyone else as well
[21:14] *[GoW]UnO* This is not meant as an insult to your team, but our policy is influenced by our interaction with other teams as well.
[21:15] *notyoueither* no offence taken
[21:15] *[GoW]UnO* We would like an agreement here and now that anything said in this chat will be kept utterly secret.
[21:15] *[GoW]UnO* No telling other teams, hinting, or anything.
[21:15] *[GoW]MasterZen* emphasis on "utterly"
[21:15] *notyoueither* granted. the same is returned by GoW?
[21:15] *[GoW]UnO* we have had troubles.
[21:15] *[GoW]MasterZen* yes
[21:15] *[GoW]UnO* absolutely.
[21:15] *[GoW]Panzer32* Gladly returned by GoW
[21:15] *notyoueither* secret from our team as well?
[21:15] *[GoW]UnO* No.
[21:15] *notyoueither* ok. thanks
[21:16] *notyoueither* please continue
[21:16] *[GoW]UnO* Make sure your TEAM understands not to leak it either.
[21:16] *notyoueither* agreed
[21:16] *[GoW]UnO* we are agreed then.
[21:16] *[GoW]UnO* Ok, we have outstanding things from the last chat.
[21:16] *[GoW]UnO* but lets set them aside for one minute.
[21:17] *notyoueither* ok
[21:17] *[GoW]UnO* We would like to talk of the status of bob.
[21:17] *[GoW]UnO* Have you heard anything new?
[21:17] *notyoueither* nothing concrete. just impressions.
[21:17] *[GoW]UnO* can you share them?
[21:18] *notyoueither* well, it seems things are moving towards action. based on behaviour. that is all
[21:18] *[GoW]UnO* Let us say, we have been assured that there will be action within ten turns.
[21:19] *notyoueither* hmmm. we are not surprised
[21:19] *[GoW]UnO* GoW has taken what steps it can to ensure we are not the recipients of this action.
[21:19] *notyoueither* can you be more specific?
[21:19] *[GoW]Panzer32* be patient
[21:19] *notyoueither* ok
[21:19] *[GoW]Panzer32* 
[21:20] *[GoW]UnO* now, it is our feeling you are the best choice of allies for the future.
[21:20] *[GoW]UnO* We would like to bring you in on this.
[21:20] *[GoW]UnO* However.
[21:21] *[GoW]UnO* Before we can say details, we would REALLY like an NAP
[21:21] *[GoW]UnO* just as insurance.
[21:21] *notyoueither* understood. you mnean before the conversation proceeds?
[21:22] *[GoW]UnO* Before specifics are given, yes.
[21:22] *[GoW]MasterZen* let's just say that the conversation will get much juicier
[21:22] *notyoueither* one moment, please
[21:22] *[GoW]MasterZen* we had been told by Shiber and Zeit in our last chat that the NAP was going to be discussed by your guys
[21:22] *notyoueither* we have been discussing. the discussion has been positive
[21:23] *notyoueither* i am confering with nathan.
[21:23] *[GoW]MasterZen* np
[21:24] *notyoueither* do you have a length of nap in mind?
[21:24] * CrazyGhengis slobers uncontrollably
[21:24] *[GoW]MasterZen* hahaha
[21:24] *[GoW]UnO* 30 turns preferable, but negotiable.
[21:24] *[GoW]MasterZen* would 30 turns be alright with you?
[21:25] *notyoueither* one moment
[21:25] *[GoW]Panzer32*
[21:25] *[GoW]UnO* Glory of Negotiation...
[21:25] *[GoW]MasterZen* Glory of Diplomacy
[21:25] *[GoW]UnO* I've been damn busy today...
[21:25] *[GoW]MasterZen* Glory of Chats
[21:26] *notyoueither* 30 turns
[21:26] *[GoW]MasterZen* is that agreed then?
[21:26] *notyoueither* to be kept secret. absolutely secret
[21:26] *[GoW]UnO* You agree?
[21:26] *[GoW]MasterZen* totally secret
[21:26] *[GoW]UnO* Of course
[21:26] *nbarclay* Yes.
[21:26] *notyoueither* done
[21:26] *[GoW]MasterZen* I won't tell my mother
[21:26] *[GoW]UnO* I wont tell my wife.
[21:26] *[GoW]Panzer32* :frienshipdance:
[21:26] *[GoW]MasterZen* Panzer, don't you tell your kid sister!
[21:27] *[GoW]Panzer32* of course not
[21:27] *[GoW]UnO* Very well.
[21:27] *notyoueither* Gathering Storm agree to a 30 turn NAP with Glory of War, to be kept absolutely secret by both teams
[21:27] *[GoW]UnO* We can proceed then.
[21:27] *[GoW]Panzer32* so this is 30 turns starting at 70 BC?
[21:27] *notyoueither* one moment
[21:27] *notyoueither* 70bc sounds good
[21:27] *[GoW]UnO* Or 50?
[21:27] *[GoW]UnO* 70 it is.
[21:27] *notyoueither* 50 if you prefer
[21:28] *[GoW]MasterZen* 70 is current turn?
[21:28] *[GoW]UnO* yes.
[21:28] *notyoueither* we have done, but yes for some
[21:28] *[GoW]MasterZen* has GS played its turn?
[21:28] *[GoW]UnO* 50 then.
[21:28] *notyoueither* i believe so
[21:28] *[GoW]MasterZen* ok, then 50
[21:28] *notyoueither* ok
[21:28] *nbarclay* It looks like GS is the only one that's played 70 BC so far.
[21:29] * [GoW]UnO can stop sweating now...
[21:29] *[GoW]MasterZen* allright, now for the REALLY fun part...
[21:29] *notyoueither* ok
[21:29] *[GoW]MasterZen* any guesses at who's the target?
[21:29] *notyoueither* us?
[21:29] *[GoW]UnO* sure, guess.
[21:29] *[GoW]MasterZen* damn
[21:30] *[GoW]MasterZen* odds of GS are like 200:1
[21:30] *notyoueither* we are not urprised
[21:30] *[GoW]UnO* odds of TAKING gs anyway.
[21:30] *[GoW]UnO* The Mouth in the South is goign down.
[21:30] *notyoueither* when do they go?
[21:30] *[GoW]UnO* This was all finalized very recently
[21:30] *[GoW]UnO* based on a number of things.
[21:31] *nbarclay* You and ND allied against RP?
[21:31] *[GoW]UnO* yes.
[21:31] *notyoueither* what?
[21:31] *notyoueither* oh, that was nathan
[21:31] *[GoW]UnO* You are surprised then?
[21:32] * [GoW]MasterZen has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[21:32] *notyoueither* a bit
[21:32] *[GoW]UnO* interesting.
[21:32] *notyoueither* looking at the map, but not when considering the people
[21:32] *[GoW]UnO* We got the impression you were leaning support in that direction.
[21:32] *[GoW]UnO* yes, the map is a concern.
[21:32] *nbarclay* We'd thought of the possibility but were skeptical about whether ND would want Riders in their territory and about how RP's territory could feasibly be divided.
[21:32] *[GoW]UnO* and part of our desire to include you.
[21:33] *notyoueither* are you asking for our help?
[21:33] * CrazyGhengis thinks Roleplay hogs too many luxuries and land for just one team
[21:33] * [GoW]UnO don't like their diplomacy
[21:33] * CrazyGhengis wants to kill the crazy HippieNazis
[21:34] *notyoueither* haha
[21:34] *[GoW]UnO* We are inviting you to Bob.
[21:34] * MasterZen has joined #GoW_CoFA
[21:34] *[GoW]UnO*
[21:34] *MasterZen* sorry about that
[21:34] *[GoW]UnO* there are several options.
[21:34] * [GoW]Panzer32 sets mode: +o MasterZen
[21:34] *notyoueither* we are paying attention
[21:34] *[GoW]UnO* Our deal with ND states that Lego is the next target
[21:34] *[GoW]UnO* We feel they would not object to assistance as long as you agree to leave after.
[21:35] * CrazyGhengis thinks EVERYONE should gang up on Lego
[21:35] *notyoueither* leave?
[21:35] *[GoW]UnO* Leave bob
[21:35] *[GoW]UnO* not retain cities.
[21:35] *nbarclay* You're saying you want us to spend resources in a war we won't be allowed to claim any land from?
[21:35] *[GoW]UnO* Otherwise, they may protest.
[21:35] *notyoueither* that would be difficult.
[21:35] *MasterZen* but you can perhaps farm for some leaders
[21:35] *[GoW]UnO* I know.
[21:35] *notyoueither* we are not mercenaries
[21:36] *notyoueither* war is costly
[21:36] *[GoW]Panzer32* ah, but we are
[21:36] *[GoW]UnO* we gain a third team to head to Lego.
[21:36] *nbarclay* If we were interested in fighting just for leader farming, we wouldn't have made peace with Vox when we did.
[21:36] * CrazyGhengis thinks GS could attack Roleplay as an excuse to move troops closer for an assault on southern Legoland
[21:37] *[GoW]UnO* Another option is sailing some galleys in that direction.
[21:37] *[GoW]UnO* just galleys.
[21:37] *MasterZen* look we don't want to push into doing something you don't want. It was just an idea.
[21:37] *notyoueither* ok. we will consider it
[21:38] *nbarclay* Also, if RP has too much land and too many luxuries for one team now, who has too much/many if you and ND carve them up and claim all of that for yourselves?
[21:38] *[GoW]UnO* We thought you may want to join in a dogpile.
[21:38] * CrazyGhengis thinks GS could make some deal to sell any cities they acquire on Bob, some sort of "bounty"
[21:38] *[GoW]Panzer32* CrazyGhengis thinks too much
[21:38] *notyoueither* Pop is power
[21:38] *notyoueither* it is that simple
[21:38] *[GoW]UnO* We know.
[21:39] *[GoW]UnO* We are not entirely opposed to the idea, just not sure of ND's position at the moment.
[21:39] *[GoW]UnO* have NOT discussed you entering.
[21:39] *notyoueither* ok. of course what we discuss here is not final
[21:39] *CrazyGhengis* But any cities you build on Bob would have high corruption whereas you build the Forbidden Palace on Legoland and form a second provence
[21:39] *MasterZen* actually just wanted to get your thoughts on it
[21:39] *[GoW]UnO* The reason we would like GS units on Bob, is what would happen if ND backstabbed us after RP? |
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notyoueither
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of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:26
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cont:
quote:
[21:40] *notyoueither* very good q
[21:40] *[GoW]UnO* Bringing you in offers assurance, keep a balance of power.
[21:40] *MasterZen* even if it's only symbolic
[21:41] *[GoW]UnO* In agreeing to leave, I am sure something can be worked that you get the largest chunk of Lego, or something so it is all equal in the end.
[21:41] *[GoW]UnO* Perhaps ND will allow some territory as well.
[21:41] *[GoW]UnO* Or at least lux outpost cities....
[21:41] *notyoueither* perhaps. we should look into that
[21:41] *[GoW]UnO* This is all up in the air.
[21:41] *notyoueither* understood
[21:41] *nbarclay* One possibility might be for us to stay on Bob until we get set up on Lego (just brainstorming for the moment).
[21:42] *[GoW]UnO* Sure.
[21:42] *[GoW]Panzer32* mabye a ND-GOW-GS chat is in order sometime in the future?
[21:42] *[GoW]UnO* Definately!
[21:42] *[GoW]UnO* AND NOT 12 NOON DAMN IT
[21:42] *[GoW]UnO* ND times suck
[21:42] *MasterZen* I like them... that's when I wake up :P
[21:42] *[GoW]UnO* You are sick
[21:43] *[GoW]UnO* lets go 4 am :P
[21:43] *MasterZen* YOU are sick :P
[21:43] *notyoueither* heh
[21:43] *[GoW]Panzer32* lets talk about chat times later, please
[21:43] *[GoW]UnO* Now.
[21:43] *[GoW]UnO* We are actively negotiating with RP right now.
[21:43] *[GoW]UnO* At the moment they do not suspect.
[21:44] *[GoW]UnO* WE WILL NOT BE BREAKING ANYTHING WE HAVE SIGNED
[21:44] *[GoW]UnO* but, I am sure you will hear that we did.
[21:44] *notyoueither* ahhhh
[21:44] *notyoueither* the thread
[21:44] *MasterZen* and all contracts with other civs will be respected
[21:44] *notyoueither* cover for stall
[21:44] *[GoW]UnO* thread?
[21:44] *notyoueither* Moo
[21:44] *MasterZen* haha
[21:44] *[GoW]UnO* oh mine.
[21:45] *[GoW]UnO* no, I am taking over RP negotiations.
[21:45] *notyoueither* oh. ok. well it would be a good stall
[21:45] *notyoueither* just a q
[21:45] *[GoW]UnO* MZ did of course step down and allow me to.
[21:46] *notyoueither* is the war with rp intended to be final?
[21:46] *MasterZen* I had him start a "Master Zen rulez" thread in our forum
[21:46] *[GoW]UnO* Yes.
[21:46] *notyoueither* thought so. just checking
[21:46] *notyoueither* do you know how lego will react?
[21:46] *[GoW]UnO* We are not of the opinion that a trimmed team offers anything to the game other than annoyances for diplo crap
[21:47] *[GoW]UnO* Lego is in bed with RP
[21:47] *notyoueither* won't that complicate things for you?
[21:47] *[GoW]UnO* RP wants us to ally against you, btw
[21:47] *[GoW]UnO* not lego
[21:47] *[GoW]UnO* still
[21:47] *notyoueither* the map dictates that
[21:47] *MasterZen* they will most likely offer financial assistance
[21:47] *[GoW]UnO* I doubt they will send units
[21:47] *MasterZen* and perhaps sell them Chivarly
[21:48] *[GoW]UnO* Not for...8 turns?
[21:48] *notyoueither* they have it?
[21:48] *[GoW]UnO* without violating a contract
[21:48] *[GoW]UnO* With you on board, we know who would have violated.
[21:48] *notyoueither* we would never violate an agreement
[21:49] *notyoueither* have the team would quit
[21:49] *[GoW]UnO* MZ? did that go final?
[21:49] *notyoueither* *half
[21:49] *[GoW]Panzer32* Uno, 15 turn NTA it was (not sure the year; one or two turns after trade to GS)
[21:49] *MasterZen* it had been previously negotiated. Much like our own feud-chiv agreement
[21:49] *notyoueither* ok
[21:50] *notyoueither* so, i take it the upgrades are nearing completion?
[21:51] *MasterZen* more or less yes
[21:51] *notyoueither* do you have a 0 hour in mind
[21:52] *[GoW]UnO* 10 BC we attack.
[21:52] *[GoW]UnO* You, when you can, if you decide.
[21:52] *MasterZen* if you want
[21:52] *notyoueither* it would take us slighly longer, if we decide
[21:52] *[GoW]UnO* would be a weakened civ away from the front...
[21:52] *notyoueither* i think
[21:52] *MasterZen* you could even just send some galleys to scare them and lure some troops to the south
[21:52] *[GoW]UnO* Galleys would be great.
[21:52] *[GoW]UnO* if nothing else.
[21:53] *notyoueither* we will consider these things
[21:53] *notyoueither* q.
[21:53] *[GoW]UnO* Yes?
[21:53] *notyoueither* do you have nap with lego?
[21:53] *[GoW]UnO* no.
[21:53] *notyoueither* nd?
[21:53] *[GoW]UnO* ND does.
[21:53] *[GoW]UnO* bullied them into it.
[21:53] *MasterZen* gotta love those krauts
[21:54] *notyoueither* lego bullied? nd bullied?
[21:54] *[GoW]UnO* ND bullied
[21:54] *notyoueither* really?
[21:54] *nbarclay* I have to wonder exactly what a NAP a team gets bullied into is likely to be worth.
[21:54] *MasterZen* everything that's in writing is worth its word to us at least
[21:54] *[GoW]UnO* got tired of Lego poping all the barb huts so landed a few horses to kill barbs...lego freaked. tried to hire us.
[21:55] *notyoueither* haha
[21:55] *[GoW]UnO* Never did finalize that proposal...
[21:55] *[GoW]UnO* else we would not be talking here.
[21:55] *notyoueither* which one?
[21:55] *[GoW]UnO* Lego.
[21:55] *MasterZen* them hiring us
[21:55] *notyoueither* ahh
[21:55] * Trip` has joined #gow_cofa
[21:55] *[GoW]UnO* Your late trip.
[21:56] *Trip`* you didn't remind me :P
[21:56] *[GoW]Panzer32* There are no "eyes" in TEAM
[21:56] *[GoW]UnO* Man, I take SPECIAL action to inform you...
[21:56] *Trip`* Panzer: but there is a "me"
[21:56] *[GoW]UnO* monumentous chat I say...
[21:56] *[GoW]UnO* Must come I say...
[21:56] *[GoW]Panzer32* read the #@$% thread!!
[21:56] *Trip`* I'm a busy man 
[21:57] * MasterZen slaps Trip` around a bit with a large trout
[21:57] *MasterZen* ah, there, just had to do it :P
[21:57] *[GoW]UnO* make or break day...I tell you...
[21:57] *Trip`* is everyone gone? :P
[21:57] * [GoW]UnO shakes his head.
[21:57] *MasterZen* um, don't you see the people list?
[21:57] *Trip`* you seem to have scared all of the GS members away
[21:58] *Trip`* threaten then with Riders? :P
[21:58] *[GoW]UnO* NYE and nathan are here.
[21:58] *Trip`* "yeah, we landed a couple horses last time, wait til you see what we have this time!" ;P
[21:58] *[GoW]Panzer32* Trip, you threatned them away.
[21:58] *notyoueither* here
[21:58] *[GoW]Panzer32* ok, where were we?
[21:58] *Trip`* NYE: ISDG save
[21:58] *Trip`* chop chop
[21:58] *MasterZen* this not ISDG :P
[21:58] *notyoueither* yes. thanks, trip
[21:59] *Trip`* 
[21:59] *MasterZen* ok, back on the subject
[21:59] *MasterZen* just a review for the Tripmeister
[21:59] *MasterZen* 1) 30 turn NAP. Agreed. Secret
[21:59] *[GoW]UnO* absolutely secret.
[21:59] *MasterZen* 2) We attack RP on 10 BC. You are invited to join but of course not required
[22:00] *Trip`* I'm invited?
[22:00] *MasterZen* 3) We look for a ND-GoW-GS chat sometime in the future to start hammering out the details of the Lego plot
[22:00] *nbarclay* Sure, you can take the mighty Luxian armies to abandon any cities that RP leaves undefended.
[22:00] *[GoW]UnO* Yes, you can get some revenge too Trip.
[22:00] *MasterZen* "The Lego Plot" has a nice ring to it..
[22:01] *Trip`* haha
[22:01] *[GoW]UnO* We can send that worker down to...um well...
[22:01] *Trip`* Lego plot!
[22:01] *MasterZen* btw
[22:01] *MasterZen* we're not going to do no BS excuses for this war
[22:02] *[GoW]UnO* NO.
[22:02] *MasterZen* nothing like Betahound...
[22:02] *MasterZen* it's war
[22:02] *MasterZen* we're the Glory of War
[22:02] *notyoueither* good plan
[22:02] *MasterZen* take the hint
[22:02] *[GoW]UnO* This is civ, they have lux, resources, we want, we think we can take.
[22:02] *notyoueither* heh
[22:02] *[GoW]UnO* period, end of story.
[22:02] *MasterZen* although I do expect some nice and fun trash talking and avatar wars
[22:02] *Trip`* the story only ends after the battlefields are cleared
[22:02] *notyoueither* i would imagine
[22:02] *MasterZen* it won't be easy
[22:03] *CrazyGhengis* I want my top ten dammit!
[22:03] *MasterZen* RP will be a hard nut to crack
[22:03] *notyoueither* no, but you will have the time of the game
[22:03] *[GoW]UnO* GF, post it in SPIN
[22:03] *MasterZen* we respect our enemy, and do not underestimate him. At least I don't
[22:03] *MasterZen* but we are confident victory will be on our side
[22:03] *notyoueither* very good plan
[22:04] *Trip`* so what happens now?
[22:04] *MasterZen* we also will keep you guys informed
[22:04] *notyoueither* that would be good
[22:04] *MasterZen* whenever you need to talk to one of us about anything we'll arrange a quick chat
[22:04] *notyoueither* alright
[22:05] *[GoW]UnO* MZ will be your quick reference.
[22:05] *notyoueither* same here. i am available most evenings
[22:05] *[GoW]Panzer32* ok then; friends?
[22:05] *MasterZen* yeah, me an nye are always online at night for the ISDG
[22:05] *notyoueither* yes. friends
[22:05] *MasterZen* communication is the least of our problems
[22:05] *[GoW]UnO* Consider our invitation.
[22:05] *notyoueither* we will
[22:05] *[GoW]UnO* We will set up a chat with ND
[22:05] *MasterZen* at least send some galleys to scare the **** out of them ... :P
[22:05] *notyoueither* good plan. let's coordinate that time, uno.
[22:06] *MasterZen* we totally respect your decision to not involve yourself if you don't feel like it
[22:06] *[GoW]UnO* Yes.
[22:06] *[GoW]UnO* Panzer, you are the ND contact?
[22:06] *notyoueither* ok. is there anything else?
[22:06] *MasterZen* I guess not
[22:06] *[GoW]Panzer32* huh? I guess so
[22:06] *notyoueither* this moved farily quick
[22:07] *[GoW]UnO* Ok...can we shoot for Sunday?
[22:07] *[GoW]UnO* Monday?
[22:07] *notyoueither* that would be good
[22:07] *notyoueither* sunday
[22:07] *[GoW]UnO* ****,
[22:07] *notyoueither* oops
[22:07] *[GoW]UnO* I got a chat at noon already Sunday.
[22:07] *[GoW]UnO* noon to 2
[22:07] *[GoW]UnO* SPDG
[22:07] *notyoueither* ok
[22:07] *[GoW]UnO* I HAVE TOO MANY JOBS!!!
[22:07] *MasterZen* tell me about it
[22:07] *notyoueither* besy guy
[22:08] *notyoueither* ummm
[22:08] *[GoW]UnO* I won't make the 3 team.
[22:08] *MasterZen* I only gave you the RP job because there won't be much to talk to them in a few days... MUAHAHAHAAHAHA
[22:08] *[GoW]UnO* anyway then.
[22:08] *[GoW]Panzer32* is this a GoW-GS chat? (is ND involved?)
[22:08] *notyoueither* early aft in na is late evng in europe
[22:08] *[GoW]UnO* yes.
[22:08] *[GoW]UnO* they like noon,right?
[22:08] *notyoueither* noon our time?
[22:08] *[GoW]UnO* yes.
[22:09] *[GoW]UnO* you guys could do it Sunday, Ill lurk while doing the turnchat...
[22:09] *[GoW]Panzer32* noon is probably fine for me
[22:09] *notyoueither* noon edt?
[22:09] *[GoW]UnO* MDT
[22:09] *notyoueither* oh, good
[22:09] *[GoW]UnO* Is what they typically ask for
[22:09] *[GoW]Panzer32* I guess I'm the military strategy guy with Aggie gone for a bit
[22:09] *[GoW]UnO* technically Im supposed to be.
[22:09] *[GoW]Panzer32* sorry, yes, 2:00 PM EDT
[22:09] *[GoW]UnO* Vice CALF...
[22:09] *MasterZen* I'll chip in, I joined this team for the warmongering
[22:10] *[GoW]UnO* Yes, let's just chat it out.
[22:10] *notyoueither* i think we may ask for 4pm edt. not sure yet. have to quickly discuss
[22:10] *nbarclay* Does CALF stand for something, or is it just a play on CoW?
[22:10] *[GoW]UnO* er unless the CoW wants to get off his ASS!!!!
[22:10] *[GoW]Panzer32* I'm the one who knows where all the units are... MZ always is asking "where are the units, how far are they from __?
[22:10] * [GoW]UnO kicks Ghengis
[22:10] *MasterZen* :P
[22:10] *[GoW]UnO* Consuls assistant to leading the fighting
[22:10] *[GoW]Panzer32* Consul's Assistant to Leading the Fighting
[22:10] *MasterZen* hahaha
[22:11] *[GoW]Panzer32* x post
[22:11] *nbarclay* Cleaver.
[22:11] *[GoW]UnO* basically just a play, yes.
[22:11] *[GoW]UnO* Moo
[22:11] *[GoW]Panzer32* CrazyGhengis can be thanked for that one IIRC
[22:11] *MasterZen* yeah, we have a fetish for barn animals
[22:12] *[GoW]UnO* FYI.
[22:12] *notyoueither* we are fond of chickens... foir some reason
[22:12] *[GoW]UnO* Trappings spoiler anyone?
[22:12] *nbarclay* So your CoW and our chickens side by side, if all goes well.
[22:12] *[GoW]Panzer32* Maybe we can make the CoIA into a SHEEP or something
[22:12] *notyoueither* trappins spoiler?
[22:12] *[GoW]UnO* if you want.
[22:12] *notyoueither* np
[22:12] *[GoW]Panzer32* sure for me
[22:12] * MasterZen what farm animal the CoFA is...
[22:12] *[GoW]UnO* how the war starts
[22:12] *[GoW]UnO* ...
[22:12] *[GoW]UnO* no?
[22:13] *notyoueither* go
[22:13] *[GoW]Panzer32* go ahead
[22:13] *[GoW]UnO* My son catches MrWIA with a (insert farm animal here)
[22:13] *[GoW]UnO* MrWIA kills my son.
[22:13] *[GoW]UnO* I go nuts and lead the charge south.
[22:13] *notyoueither* ohh
[22:14] *[GoW]UnO* Follow 'my' rider from there.
[22:14] *notyoueither* that could be gripping
[22:14] *[GoW]Panzer32* Uno, are you logging/have logged the chat?
[22:14] *[GoW]UnO* no...I can use the buffer.
[22:15] *[GoW]Panzer32* ok, if the chats over then I think I'll retire for the night
[22:15] *MasterZen* gnight
[22:15] *[GoW]UnO* gnight.
[22:15] *[GoW]Panzer32* ghzuntight
[22:15] *notyoueither* g'night
[22:15] * [GoW]Panzer32 has quit IRC (Quit: )
[22:15] *[GoW]UnO* Alright. are we done then. anything else from GS?
[22:15] *notyoueither* not for now. much food for thought.
[22:16] *MasterZen* a all expenses paid trip to one of your cities?
[22:16] *notyoueither* you are welcome to visit the storm, mz
[22:16] *notyoueither* i will send a boat
[22:16] *[GoW]UnO* Alright...we'll shoot for Sunday with ND
[22:16] *notyoueither* yes. 2 to 4 edt
[22:16] *notyoueither* pm
[22:17] *MasterZen* cool, you and nathan are invited to my little fortress in Zenophobia too
[22:17] *notyoueither* 2 might go for us though
[22:17] *[GoW]UnO* Yes, our island is lovely.
[22:17] *notyoueither* it sounds like it
[22:17] *nbarclay* That sounds workable for me.
[22:17] *[GoW]UnO* Zenophobia is not as nice if you ask me.
[22:18] *[GoW]UnO* may be larger, but they all seem a little on the skinny side
[22:18] *nbarclay* I'd enjoy seeing your island, if I can ever get away from my job managing GS's economy for long enough.
[22:18] *MasterZen* ah, the economist
[22:18] *MasterZen* yeah btw, I starved my own city once :P
[22:18] *notyoueither* he is chained to a ledger in a tower in EotS
[22:19] *MasterZen* that's why I hate Civ3 economics
[22:19] *MasterZen* being an economist in RL is enough numbers for me, thank you :P
[22:19] *[GoW]UnO* You starve your own people!
[22:19] *nbarclay* Fortunately, I don't have to contend with being a RL economist, just a Civ 3 one.
[22:20] *[GoW]UnO* curse you for ruining my plans anyway.
[22:20] *[GoW]UnO* :P
[22:20] *MasterZen* ah, you really don't want to be a RL one, I'm tellin ya
[22:20] *nbarclay* Was the starvation due to one of those situations where you either have one food too much or one too little?
[22:20] *MasterZen* I just wanted to get a temple done quick
[22:20] *[GoW]UnO* yes, starving added a shield as well.
[22:20] *[GoW]UnO* MZ STOLE that city from the though :P
[22:20] *MasterZen* figured the lives of my citizens was more than worth it if they could eventualyl worship me in that temple
[22:21] *[GoW]UnO* I wanted the whole isleand
[22:21] *nbarclay* Impressive ego.
[22:21] *[GoW]UnO* island
[22:21] *MasterZen* heheh
[22:21] *notyoueither* well, gentlemen. i must excuse myself. isdg turn is in the oven.
[22:21] *[GoW]UnO* You should tell Shiber, I have written him based on my dog.
[22:21] *[GoW]UnO* She died 2 weeks ago.
[22:21] *nbarclay* NYE, are you going to post a copy of the chat, or do I need to?
[22:21] *[GoW]UnO* doing it as a tribute.
[22:22] *notyoueither* Nathan, it would save me one chore this evening if you could.
[22:22] *nbarclay* And it would save me one if you could. I can do it if you need me to, though.
[22:22] *notyoueither* no. i will.
[22:22] *nbarclay* Thanks.
[22:23] *notyoueither* bye for now
[22:23] *nbarclay* Bye everyone.
Session Close: Fri Jul 11 22:23:17 2003 |
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notyoueither
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of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:26
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quote:
Session Start: Sun Jul 13 12:28:47 2003
Session Ident: #GoW_CoFA
[12:28] * Now talking in #GoW_CoFA
[12:28] *notyoueither* hello
[12:41] *[ND]Darekill* hello.
[12:41] *[ND]Darekill* you are from GS right?
[12:56] * [ND]Darekill has quit IRC (Quit: )
[13:05] *notyoueither* yes
[14:45] * UnOrthOdOx has joined #GoW_cofa
[14:45] *UnOrthOdOx* Hey.
[14:45] *UnOrthOdOx* Sorry, I got stuck with my turnchat as pres
[14:45] *notyoueither* hi
[14:45] *UnOrthOdOx* did it happen?
[14:45] *notyoueither* np. you said you would
[14:45] *notyoueither* no. no chat
[14:45] *UnOrthOdOx* Damn.
[14:45] *notyoueither* i got here at 12.40 or so. just darekill
[14:45] *notyoueither* he did not respond for some time
[14:46] *notyoueither* then i missed him when he did
[14:46] *UnOrthOdOx* Panzer never showed?
[14:47] *notyoueither* not after i got here
[14:47] *UnOrthOdOx* As long as I have you.
[14:47] *notyoueither* he may have been before
[14:47] *UnOrthOdOx* Hows this sound?
[14:48] *UnOrthOdOx* This contract is a declaration of a Non Aggression Pact between Gathering Storm and Glory of War. Neither team will engage in hostile activity against the other team for the duration of the contract.
[14:48] *UnOrthOdOx* The contract becomes effective in (what turn number is this?) 50 BC and will remain in effect for a duration of 30 turns (what year would this be?).
[14:48] *UnOrthOdOx* e contract is considered Top Secret and will be treated as such by both teams and by their members. No memeber of either team is allowed to discuss the existence, or details, of the contract with anyone who is not a member of either Gathering Storm or Glory of War.
[14:48] *UnOrthOdOx* O got turn numbers now, BTW
[14:48] *UnOrthOdOx* I got.
[14:48] *notyoueither* good
[14:48] *UnOrthOdOx* this was the draft I presented.
[14:49] *UnOrthOdOx* Straight forward, unlike some other teams stuff we end up getting...
[14:49] *UnOrthOdOx* Alright.
[14:49] *notyoueither* yes. the spirit is the important bit
[14:49] *UnOrthOdOx* Ill send it signed.
[14:49] *notyoueither* straight language actually has fewer loop holes
[14:49] *notyoueither* it is the legalese that introduces them
[14:49] *UnOrthOdOx* YEs....
[14:50] *UnOrthOdOx* RP just sent me a no kidding 5 page proposal.
[14:50] *UnOrthOdOx* that is basically supposed to be a MPP.
[14:50] *notyoueither* 5 pages?
[14:50] *UnOrthOdOx* for an MPP
[14:50] *UnOrthOdOx* yep.
[14:50] *notyoueither* wow
[14:51] *UnOrthOdOx* That's what I get for actively negotiating with them.
[14:51] *UnOrthOdOx* Just so you guys don't get the wrong ideas, the whole No-con thing...
[14:51] *notyoueither* that is why i invited you guys to write it. if i had it would say 'no attack each other. 30 turns. friends. where tank?'
[14:51] *UnOrthOdOx* RP had let slip that I was the only member on GoW they trust.
[14:52] *UnOrthOdOx* MZ had been delaying the Chiv trade, they ceased trusting him and were making demands.
[14:52] *notyoueither* oh. ok
[14:52] *UnOrthOdOx* They think we hate each other and don't agree.
[14:53] *UnOrthOdOx* I am taking over, but there is no hostilities, we are just presenting them with what they wanted.
[14:53] *UnOrthOdOx* as far as an ambassador.
[14:53] *notyoueither* good. how do you delay the mpp to 10bc?
[14:53] *UnOrthOdOx* We are declaring war in 30 BC, I think.
[14:53] *UnOrthOdOx* But wont 'attack' till 10.
[14:54] *UnOrthOdOx* anyway.
[14:54] *notyoueither* ahh. wow. one turn til the show starts
[14:54] *UnOrthOdOx* They have added boundaries, etc into the MPP.
[14:54] *UnOrthOdOx* easily contended.
[14:54] *notyoueither* yes, very easy
[14:54] *UnOrthOdOx* We want to declare war before entering territory, that is why.
[14:55] *notyoueither* i think 30bc is loose
[14:55] *UnOrthOdOx* Yes, it is 50 soon.
[14:55] *UnOrthOdOx* loose?
[14:55] *notyoueither* nope. that was 50bc that we sent. i am ahead of myself
[14:56] *UnOrthOdOx* Ah, we havent seen 50 yet.
[14:56] *UnOrthOdOx* FYI, to us, MPP and NAP are two different things.
[14:57] *UnOrthOdOx* an MPP is not a NAP and vice versa.
[14:57] *UnOrthOdOx* just in case Vox goes nuts and you want us sinking galleys.
[14:57] *UnOrthOdOx* That would need be arranged seperately.
[14:58] *notyoueither* of course
[14:58] *UnOrthOdOx* Well.
[14:58] *UnOrthOdOx* Just making sure.
[14:58] *notyoueither* it is good to make things clear
[14:59] *notyoueither* it is too bad we missed darekill
[14:59] *UnOrthOdOx* So...zeit mentioned a G-2 alliance?
[14:59] *UnOrthOdOx* possibility.
[14:59] *UnOrthOdOx* That would need some serious consideration from us.
[15:00] *UnOrthOdOx* as it would limit our potential employers.
[15:00] *notyoueither* yes.
[15:00] *UnOrthOdOx* as mercenaries.
[15:00] *UnOrthOdOx* However, there are few who are proven as reliable an employer.
[15:00] *notyoueither* it might be premature.
[15:00] *UnOrthOdOx*
[15:00] *notyoueither* you are about to embark on a war with nd as ally
[15:01] *notyoueither* our place is unclear
[15:01] *UnOrthOdOx* We want you in it as well.
[15:01] *UnOrthOdOx* Have not discounted the idea that it is all a ploy to move our units south.
[15:01] *UnOrthOdOx* Or a ploy to attack us after RP
[15:01] *UnOrthOdOx* we are taking a chance, to be sure.
[15:02] *notyoueither* a very big one
[15:02] *UnOrthOdOx* Either side would have been a big risk.
[15:02] *notyoueither* but they have been honourable to date, yes?
[15:02] *UnOrthOdOx* Yes.
[15:02] *UnOrthOdOx* Cannot say the same of RP.
[15:02] *notyoueither* that's all you can go on
[15:02] *UnOrthOdOx* yep.
[15:03] *notyoueither* how has rp been dishonourable?
[15:03] *UnOrthOdOx* We feel we have played well to date and will not feel too bad if we go out due to a backstab.
[15:04] *notyoueither* with so much invested, it is wise to have a stoic view
[15:04] *UnOrthOdOx* RP...has been aggressive, manipulative, and we know of several deals they have proken.
[15:04] *UnOrthOdOx* So should you.
[15:04] *UnOrthOdOx* You've read the same threads I got that info from.
[15:05] *notyoueither* i may have missed some
[15:05] *UnOrthOdOx* Arnelos has admitted it in the ISDG.
[15:05] *UnOrthOdOx* I could find it again if you need.
[15:05] *notyoueither* that would interest me
[15:05] *UnOrthOdOx* 'lessons from lux'
[15:06] *notyoueither* in the isdg forum?
[15:06] *UnOrthOdOx* 'the ink had just dried on our MPP when lux seemed to go nuts, aggrivating ND'
[15:06] *UnOrthOdOx* Yes.
[15:07] *UnOrthOdOx* He and Togas openly talk of bullying us into things as well.
[15:07] *UnOrthOdOx* This shifted the vote as those of our team who have access and read that considered it a public insult.
[15:07] *notyoueither* ahhh
[15:08] *notyoueither* yes. that would be hard to ignore
[15:08] *UnOrthOdOx* We felt this game should have best been left here. that one there.
[15:08] *UnOrthOdOx* Esp since we couldn't share that with the rest of the team.
[15:09] *notyoueither* well. rp will prove a valuable lesson when bismarkian politics goes wrong
[15:09] *UnOrthOdOx* They are going to be tought to take down.
[15:09] *UnOrthOdOx* Well, I need to go.
[15:10] *notyoueither* ok. thanks for coming late
[15:10] *UnOrthOdOx* Sorry, I forgot about this till after my other responsibilities.
[15:10] *UnOrthOdOx* Can only multi task so far.
[15:10] *notyoueither* i understand the pull
[15:10] *UnOrthOdOx* If I had known all this was going to happen, I wouldn't have ran for pres.
[15:11] *notyoueither* well, you need to look after yourself
[15:11] *UnOrthOdOx* Alright. Im sending the PM now, signed.
[15:11] *notyoueither* good. thanks
[15:12] *UnOrthOdOx* I'll get you a reschedule for ND chat.
[15:12] *notyoueither* i will let you go
[15:12] *UnOrthOdOx* Ok.
[15:12] * UnOrthOdOx has left #GoW_cofa
Session Close: Sun Jul 13 15:12:23 2003 |
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notyoueither
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of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:26
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Short, impromtu chat with GoW. I was summoned by Panzer32.
quote:
Session Start: Tue Jul 15 18:58:18 2003
Session Ident: #gow
[18:58] * Now talking in #gow
[18:58] *notyoueit* hi
[18:58] *Panzer32* Unortho, set a temporary pwd
[18:58] *Panzer32* or op me
[18:58] *notyoueit* just preparing a post
[18:59] *Panzer32* we want to scedule a time for an ND-GoW-GS chat
[19:00] *UnOrthOdOx* Oh hi.
[19:00] * UnOrthOdOx sets mode: +k Raiders
[19:00] *UnOrthOdOx* Sorry, trying to upload my pics like a good pres.
[19:01] *UnOrthOdOx* Yes, I PM'd you, but well, Poly didn't cooperate there.
[19:01] *UnOrthOdOx* Is 1800 possible for you guys?
[19:01] *notyoueit* ok. 1800 gmt is hard for me. but maybe on thursday.
[19:01] *notyoueit* i have just posted your pm, UnO. Could not get on Poly all day
[19:02] *UnOrthOdOx* Yeah I know.
[19:02] *notyoueit* i think some of the Euros could make it for sure
[19:02] *notyoueit* and that is a great time for zeit, i think
[19:02] *UnOrthOdOx* Just a qualified rep would be needed.
[19:02] *UnOrthOdOx* Oh, that will work!
[19:02] *UnOrthOdOx* It's a horrid time for me too, Panzer will be there for us.
[19:02] *notyoueit* yes. i would like to have zeit and opd there, if alva does not turn up.
[19:03] *UnOrthOdOx* And MZ if he can wake himself that early.
[19:03] *Panzer32* MZ should be here soon
[19:03] *notyoueit* heh. yeah he is a night owl
[19:03] *UnOrthOdOx* Is there any problem with the other item in the PM?
[19:03] *notyoueit* excuse me for a second
[19:06] * MasterZen has joined #GoW
[19:06] *MasterZen* wazzzzzzzzaaaaaaaap
[19:07] *MasterZen* wow, nye joined GoW!! sweet!
[19:07] *notyoueit* back
[19:07] *MasterZen* has anyone told him about our initiation process?
[19:07] *notyoueit* oh oh
[19:07] *MasterZen* step 1)
[19:07] *notyoueit* ole!
[19:07] *MasterZen* must dress in tights and dance in the jungle where Roleplay can see him
[19:08] *MasterZen* step 2)
[19:08] *notyoueit* do they have archers? that would be fatal for me if they have archers
[19:08] *UnOrthOdOx* NYE, was there any problem with the second item in the PM?
[19:08] *notyoueit* hang on
[19:08] *MasterZen* ok, what are you guys talking about?
[19:08] *UnOrthOdOx* The wording on the NAP
[19:08] *MasterZen* ahhh ok
[19:09] *notyoueit* uno. i think we will return to you in 24 hours with that wording ratified
[19:09] *notyoueit* if nothing crops up
[19:09] *UnOrthOdOx* Ok.
[19:09] *notyoueit* it is in effect though
[19:09] *notyoueit* just loose ends
[19:09] *UnOrthOdOx* No offense, I like it in writing
[19:10] *notyoueit* same here
[19:10] *notyoueit* re the rest of the pm. chat is good
[19:10] *notyoueit* r or f for me please
[19:10] *notyoueit* if it is 1800gmt
[19:11] *UnOrthOdOx* R or F?
[19:11] *notyoueit* re sending help. that is being discussed right now. at length
[19:11] *notyoueit* thurs or fri
[19:11] *UnOrthOdOx* Oh, OK.
[19:11] *UnOrthOdOx* We'll try to grab Darekill then.
[19:12] *UnOrthOdOx* Ill let you know when it's final
[19:12] *notyoueit* ok
[19:12] * UnOrthOdOx sets mode: +o MasterZen
[19:12] *notyoueit* have you discussed us with them since our last chat?
[19:12] * UnOrthOdOx sets mode: +o notyoueit
[19:12] * UnOrthOdOx sets mode: +o Panzer32
[19:13] *UnOrthOdOx* Panzer?
[19:13] *UnOrthOdOx* Sorry, they are not my specialty...
[19:13] *notyoueit* np
[19:13] *UnOrthOdOx* And, I've been busy doing my Prez thing.
[19:14] *UnOrthOdOx* Which I sure wish the upload was going quicker...
[19:14] *UnOrthOdOx* 15 min/picture is a *****
[19:14] *UnOrthOdOx* Hey, MZ
[19:14] *MasterZen* yes
[19:14] *UnOrthOdOx* You available wed for a chat in the SPDG?
[19:14] *MasterZen* sure thing, what time?
[19:14] *UnOrthOdOx* Wed at...1800?
[19:14] *MasterZen* 1800 GMT?
[19:14] *UnOrthOdOx* yes.
[19:14] *Panzer32* sorry, AFK for a min
[19:15] *MasterZen* that's 1300... yeah, I am. That's tommorow then right?
[19:15] *UnOrthOdOx* Yeah...respond in the 'Chat 16 schedule' thread that you can cover for GK, please.
[19:15] *notyoueit* if i understand correctly, gow has no problem with us having a presense on bob after the war. balance of power. the prob would be with nd. am i right?
[19:15] *MasterZen* sure thing will do right now, Mr. President
[19:15] *Panzer32* I haven't talked with ND since Sunday to answer the q
[19:16] *UnOrthOdOx* We haven't fully discussed this.
[19:16] *notyoueit* could i ask. what is gow to gain from the war? other than knocking rp down
[19:16] *MasterZen* the way I see it is that ND has a problem with it it's because they might be up to something after the war
[19:17] *MasterZen* isn't knocking down RP down just fun in itself??
[19:17] *UnOrthOdOx* So, unofficially, I think we wouldn't have any problem with a small territory in compensation until we get you some prime lego real estate.
[19:17] *UnOrthOdOx* We WANT your forces here at the end of the war, just in case ND gets any ideas.
[19:18] *notyoueit* i see. that is a good idea, i think
[19:18] *MasterZen* at least until we pull back our forces and beef up our defenses
[19:18] *UnOrthOdOx* Make sure they live up to their end of the deal...so to speak.
[19:18] *notyoueit* so, gow is not after land then?
[19:18] *MasterZen* nobody wants ND or GoW ruling Bob (well, we want to rule Bob...)
[19:19] *UnOrthOdOx* Anything we get south is horribly corrupt. Yes, we want more land, but would give up some of it for assurances.
[19:19] *UnOrthOdOx* Also, our NAP with ND ends when RP is destroyed.
[19:19] *notyoueit* ok. good to know. this chat will effect our discussions, i am sure
[19:19] *UnOrthOdOx* Currently
[19:20] * notyoueit is now known as notyoueither
[19:20] *MasterZen* we're going to have to do some nifty Palace placement to get the most of our new lands
[19:20] *UnOrthOdOx* I am saying, giving you a few cities with a lux or two, not a monopoly on those lux's is certainly reasonable, I think.
[19:21] *notyoueither* ok
[19:21] *MasterZen* or perhaps we can gift you luxes in excange for sending troops, i.e. no cities per se, in return we gift you any luxes we have extra
[19:21] *notyoueither* i should get going. turn will arrive soon. isdg. need to prepare
[19:21] *UnOrthOdOx* Until you can establish on Lego, that is, then we would have to see how things go. Perhaps at that point we will want your assistance dealing with ND, who knows?
[19:21] *MasterZen* anyway these are all ideas
[19:21] *MasterZen* we'll work as the war progesses
[19:22] *notyoueither* mz. the no cities idea is a major stumbling block
[19:22] *Panzer32* I'm afk for a while
[19:22] *notyoueither* it is just not in the cards from our pov as it is evolving
[19:22] *UnOrthOdOx* It is not smart Civving
[19:22] *MasterZen* ok, so you want cities
[19:22] *notyoueither* no. not at all
[19:22] *notyoueither* xpost
[19:23] *UnOrthOdOx* How much do you want is the question, and would you leave when you establish on lego.
[19:23] *UnOrthOdOx* The deal I am thinking is to agree to give you the bigger share of lego in return for helping here, but a temp territory as a 'down payment'
[19:24] *notyoueither* interests could certainly be traded. nothing ruling that out. very complicated though
[19:24] *notyoueither* something else that we have to take into account
[19:24] *UnOrthOdOx* Yes, and adding ND just confuses it further.
[19:24] *notyoueither* much of rp's southern coast is very close to south stormia
[19:25] *notyoueither* too close to expect us to not want to garrison it ourselves.
[19:25] *notyoueither* transports and marines are so damn mean
[19:25] *UnOrthOdOx* So...you would not want to leave is what you are saying.
[19:26] *UnOrthOdOx* Consider our side, you having LAND give you the advantage at such a time.
[19:26] *UnOrthOdOx* No need for amphibious invasions.
[19:27] *UnOrthOdOx* Very touchy stuff we are dealing with.
[19:27] *notyoueither* i can see that. however. land warfare is all together different from marines
[19:27] *MasterZen* marines are a looooong way off
[19:27] *notyoueither* we would be no where near anything important
[19:27] *notyoueither* yes, but they do come, mz
[19:28] *notyoueither* and in the mean time, before rr's. non marine invasions can be quite effective
[19:28] *MasterZen* I would expect Lego to be out of the picture by then
[19:28] *UnOrthOdOx* Personally, I would rather have a foothold, no matter how remote, than a short straight that can be easily defended with relatively few ships...
[19:29] *notyoueither* look more closely at the map, uno. it is not a short straight. it is a long coast line, which in the south gets close to important things
[19:30] *notyoueither* at any rate, let's leave off for now. i need to go.
[19:30] *UnOrthOdOx* It's no different than what GoW faces in the north. Perhaps we should be asking to garrison northern estonia?
[19:30] *notyoueither* how far is n estonia from your cap, uno?
[19:31] *notyoueither* from nd's?
[19:31] *UnOrthOdOx* Now or later?
[19:31] *notyoueither* i have to go.
[19:31] *UnOrthOdOx* Agreed.
[19:31] *UnOrthOdOx* Leave this for later.
[19:31] *notyoueither* ok. bye. good luck. the waiting must be eating you guys up
[19:32] *MasterZen* tell me about it..
[19:32] *UnOrthOdOx* We'll be having fun relatively soon.
[19:32] *notyoueither* see you in the isdg
Session Close: Tue Jul 15 19:32:20 2003 |
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zeit
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Meet my blade!
Sep 2002
time: 06:26
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To UnO, ratified NAP: quote:
Dear, UnOrthOdOx,
Sorry for being late with this, I guess Poly could be partially blamed for this...
Here is the ratified NAP,
quote:
This contract is a declaration of a Non Aggression Pact between Gathering Storm and Glory of War. Neither team will engage in hostile activity against the other team for the duration of the contract.
The contract becomes effective on turn 126, 50 BC and will remain in effect for a duration of 30 turns, cancelling after turn 156, 400 AD.
The contract is considered Top Secret and will be treated as such by both teams and by their members. No memeber of either team is allowed to discuss the existence, or details, of the contract with anyone who is not a member of either Gathering Storm or Glory of War.
Signed:
Glory of War Team
Ratified:
Gathering Storm |
This could be the beginning of a wonderful friendship, .
As for a time for a joint chat with ND- 1800GMT is great for me any day. But, I will be leaving for Italy for 8 days on July 21st (going to the R.E.M. concerts ). So I'd really thank you if the chat could be arranged before that day.
Cordially,
Zeit. |
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DeepO
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supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:26
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chat with GoW and ND last night:
quote:
Session Start: Thu Jul 17 20:12:30 2003
[20:12] } Successfully joined #gow_cofa at 8:12pm
[20:12] } Total People:5 Ops:1 Voices:0
[20:12] } Channel Modes: +
[20:12] } Created on Thursday, July 17th, 2003 at 8:03pm
[20:12] [8:12pm] {@MasterZen} anyone else from ND or GS coming?
[20:12] {DeepO} hi there!
[20:12] [8:12pm] {@MasterZen} doh!
[20:12] {DeepO}
[20:12] [8:12pm] {opdaway} lo deepO
[20:12] [8:12pm] {@MasterZen} hey deep)
[20:12] {DeepO} lo
[20:12] [8:12pm] {Panzer32} MZ, op me
[20:12] {DeepO} good to be in
[20:12] [8:12pm] MasterZen sets mode: +o Panzer32
[20:12] {DeepO} Zeit should be arriving shortly
[20:13] [8:13pm] Panzer32 sets mode: +s
[20:13] [8:13pm] zeit (Zeit@adsl-188-25.barak.net.il) has joined. «6 people»
[20:13] {DeepO} here you go
[20:13] [8:13pm] {zeit} hello there
[20:13] {DeepO} I think that for GS that is about it...
[20:13] [8:13pm] {opdaway} lo Zeit
[20:13] [8:13pm] {zeit} have we all drifted here?
[20:13] [8:13pm] {zeit} i'll give Shiber a call
[20:13] [8:13pm] {@MasterZen} yep
[20:13] [8:13pm] Panzer32 sets mode: +tn
[20:13] [8:13pm] Panzer32 sets mode: +k rpmeat
[20:13] {DeepO} will post a message in our forum where to find us...
[20:14] [8:14pm] {[ND]Darek} Borc will come later. We don'T need to wait for him.
[20:14] [8:14pm] {@Panzer32} ok
[20:15] {DeepO} ok... OPD or Zeit, will you be GS's voice?
[20:15] [8:15pm] {opdaway} Zeit
[20:15] {DeepO} ok
[20:16] [8:16pm] {@MasterZen} anybody know if UnO is coming?
[20:16] {DeepO} forget about that posting on our board, 'poly is down again
[20:17] [8:17pm] {[ND]Darek} poly is down quite often in last days
[20:17] {DeepO} indeed...
[20:17] [8:17pm] {@Panzer32} I don't know about Uno
[20:17] {DeepO} might be best to have a backup for these kind of things
[20:17] {DeepO} as I suspect we want to have a diplo channel anyway...
[20:18] {DeepO} so... GS is complete... ND doesn't need to wait, GoW?
[20:19] {DeepO} let's get the show on the road
[20:19] [8:19pm] {[ND]Darek} yes let us show the road.
[20:19] [8:19pm] {@MasterZen} ok, let's start
[20:19] [8:19pm] opdaway (~dwyerowen@82-36-92-149.cable.ubr04.harb.blueyonder.co.uk) is now known as [GS}OPD
[20:19] [8:19pm] {zeit} very well
[20:19] [8:19pm] [GS}OPD (~dwyerowen@82-36-92-149.cable.ubr04.harb.blueyonder.co.uk) is now known as [GS]OPD
[20:20] [8:20pm] {@MasterZen} first of all a prayer:
[20:20] [8:20pm] zeit (Zeit@adsl-188-25.barak.net.il) is now known as [GS]zeit
[20:20] [8:20pm] {@MasterZen} May the valiant troops of GoW and ND survive battle without harm,
[20:20] [8:20pm] {[GS]zeit} in the spirit of the spanish catholics, maybe?
[20:20] [8:20pm] {@MasterZen} May our faithful friends from the GS prosper in peace
[20:20] [8:20pm] {[ND]Darek} we are islamic mind you?
[20:20] [8:20pm] {@MasterZen} May our treacherous enemies from RP be squashed like bugs
[20:21] [8:21pm] {@MasterZen} Salaam
[20:21] {DeepO} Amen
[20:21] [8:21pm] {@MasterZen} Allah Ackbar
[20:21] [8:21pm] {[ND]Darek} at least we roleplay to be islamic
[20:21] [8:21pm] SirRalph (~sirralph@pD9E00C03.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined. «7 people»
[20:21] [8:21pm] {@Panzer32} Do you do Jihad against RP?
[20:21] [8:21pm] {SirRalph} hello
[20:21] [8:21pm] {@Panzer32} hey SR
[20:21] {DeepO} hii SR!
[20:21] [8:21pm] {[GS]zeit} hi SR!
[20:22] [8:22pm] {[ND]Darek} kind of
[20:22] [8:22pm] {[ND]Darek} hi SR
[20:22] [8:22pm] {@MasterZen} hey SR!
[20:23] [8:23pm] {@MasterZen} ok, well, now that we're all here...
[20:24] [8:24pm] {[ND]Darek} let us pray again?
[20:24] {DeepO}
[20:24] [8:24pm] * MasterZen wishes he had UnO's agenda...
[20:24] [8:24pm] {[ND]Darek} no not again!
[20:24] [8:24pm] {@MasterZen} oh oh...
[20:24] [8:24pm] {[GS]zeit} I guess we could start with some brief update
[20:25] [8:25pm] {[GS]zeit} on the happening on the front(s)
[20:25] [8:25pm] {@MasterZen} ok
[20:25] [8:25pm] {@MasterZen} no combat so far, just the war declarations
[20:25] [8:25pm] {[GS]zeit} troop movement?
[20:25] [8:25pm] {[ND]Darek} this turn our troops enter spanish territory.
[20:25] [8:25pm] {@MasterZen} ours too
[20:26] [8:26pm] {@MasterZen} we suspect RP is much weaker than they appear
[20:26] [8:26pm] {@MasterZen} they've been sending peace feelers to us
[20:26] [8:26pm] {[GS]zeit} already?
[20:27] [8:27pm] {[ND]Darek} they are still trying to ally with us
[20:27] [8:27pm] {@MasterZen} yep, they want us to "reconsider" our approach and backstab ND instead :P
[20:27] [8:27pm] {[GS]zeit} I guess Togas is not used to combat beyond that fought with words
[20:27] [8:27pm] {[GS]zeit}
[20:27] [8:27pm] {@MasterZen} I guess
[20:27] [8:27pm] {@MasterZen} there's no way out of it though. GoW won't stand for anything than the total destruction of RP
[20:28] [8:28pm] {[ND]Darek} so do we.
[20:28] [8:28pm] {[GS]zeit} why is that, wouldn't you settle for just crippling them?
[20:28] [8:28pm] {[GS]zeit} (just asking)
[20:28] [8:28pm] {@MasterZen} you should hear all the crap I have to hear every night in the chat from RPers...
[20:28] [8:28pm] {[ND]Darek} We don't go at war easy but if we start one it ends either in our destruction or that of our enemys.
[20:29] [8:29pm] {[ND]Darek} at least as long as they do not flee to Vox
[20:29] [8:29pm] {[GS]zeit} hmm.. a true islamic jihad, then
[20:29] [8:29pm] {[GS]zeit} what about the spoils?
[20:29] [8:29pm] {@MasterZen} yeah, we've had enough of their deceit
[20:30] [8:30pm] {[GS]zeit} this was of course just a tease from RP, but i assume it could be a real problem for you- to divide them
[20:30] [8:30pm] {@MasterZen} all that has been settled for
[20:31] [8:31pm] {[ND]Darek} we have agreed to a map that let us shar Borconia in a fair way.
[20:31] [8:31pm] {@MasterZen} both teams shall be fairly and equally compensanted
[20:32] [8:32pm] {[GS]zeit} what is your estimate for the duration of the war?
[20:32] [8:32pm] {[ND]Darek} this war was planned millenia ago.
[20:32] [8:32pm] {[GS]zeit} you've said RP seems weaker than expected
[20:32] [8:32pm] {@MasterZen} well, we're not taking this lightly
[20:33] [8:33pm] {[GS]zeit} of course- they are not exactly a weakling- and distance is a problem
[20:33] [8:33pm] {@MasterZen} we expect them to fight, and fight hard
[20:33] [8:33pm] {[ND]Darek} we have no idea how long it will last. war's tend to be longer than you think and somtimes they are shorter than you hope.
[20:33] [8:33pm] {@MasterZen} but we have reason to believe they are 1) strapped for cash 2) militarily caught off guard
[20:34] [8:34pm] nye (notyoueith@h24-86-76-127.ed.shawcable.net) has joined. «8 people»
[20:34] [8:34pm] {[GS]zeit} why is that?
[20:34] {DeepO} hi nye!
[20:34] [8:34pm] {nye} lower case!
[20:34] {DeepO}
[20:34] [8:34pm] {nye} hello
[20:34] [8:34pm] {@MasterZen} yo yo yo!
[20:34] [8:34pm] {[GS]zeit} welcome aboard!
[20:34] [8:34pm] {[ND]Darek} hi
[20:35] [8:35pm] {@MasterZen} how many turns did the Vox-GS war last?
[20:35] {DeepO} 23
[20:36] {DeepO} hmmm.. make that 21
[20:36] [[GS]OPD PING]
[20:37] [8:37pm] {[GS]zeit} but then again- you have been preparing more than Vox has, I hope
[20:37] [8:37pm] {@MasterZen} well, I can't guess how long this one will take
[20:37] [8:37pm] {@MasterZen} but there should be a point in which it should be obvious that the war is won/lost
[20:38] [8:38pm] {[GS]zeit} yes, but since this is an utter-destruction war, it should take longer
[20:38] [8:38pm] {@MasterZen} well, the odds are totally against them: they're facing 2 civs each one the equal of their power, who on top of it all get their GAs and have prepared for this
[20:40] [8:40pm] {[GS]zeit} just taking a look at the map...
[20:40] [8:40pm] {@MasterZen} plus, it seems that allying with ND seemed the most uttely illogical thing to do. They still ask me why we did it, that it makes no sense... haha
[20:42] [8:42pm] {[ND]Darek} that is what they tell us too no matter of the fact that an allieance with them would be as illogical than the alliance with GoW
[20:42] [8:42pm] {[GS]zeit} when do you plan to make your attack on RP's first city?
[20:44] [8:44pm] {@MasterZen} soon enough
[20:44] [8:44pm] {[GS]zeit} I mean- do you want to make it a quick blitz or try to destroy as much as their army on the first fights?
[20:44] [8:44pm] {[ND]Darek} that depends upon their moves.
[20:45] [8:45pm] {@MasterZen} we're going with a combination of lure-and-destroy, and taking out their weak cities. Thus, it would be like blitzkrieg in that we're not going to stick around mauling a big pike-defended walled city like that...
[20:45] [8:45pm] {@MasterZen} our Riders give us the mobility we need to afford those kinds of slogs
[20:46] [8:46pm] {@MasterZen} *avoid
[20:46] [8:46pm] {[GS]zeit} so you'd stick to targets of opportunities, even if that means not getting ahead
[20:46] [8:46pm] {[GS]zeit} ?
[20:46] [8:46pm] {[ND]Darek} Ansar Warriors are just as fast
[20:47] [8:47pm] {@MasterZen} well we can't say right now what RP is going to do, forutnately we're attacking on two foronts, they'll be hard pressed to defend successfuly both
[20:47] [8:47pm] {[GS]zeit} we assumed GoW would go for Toledo first, is that so?
[20:48] [8:48pm] {@MasterZen} it's an option, Bilbao-Madrid is an alternative. Toledo would be good as it cuts their eastern cities from the center and the west
[20:49] [8:49pm] {@MasterZen} the idea is to threaten as many objectives as possible simultaneously, that weay we get the luxury of choosing which one to attack
[20:49] [8:49pm] {[GS]zeit} you mean NewM, right?
[20:50] [8:50pm] {@MasterZen} yeah
[20:50] [8:50pm] {[GS]zeit} what about help from Lego- is that an option for you
[20:50] [8:50pm] {@MasterZen} the way our stack is positioned, we are perfectly capable of attacking either Toledo or Bilbao on the same turn
[20:50] [8:50pm] {[GS]zeit} from Lego to RP, that is
[20:51] [8:51pm] {@MasterZen} vondrack has assured me that Lego has no intention of getting involved. of course, that can be a ruse.
[20:51] [8:51pm] {[GS]zeit} yes- but it would probably trouble ND more, with Lego on the west
[20:51] [8:51pm] {[ND]Darek} They told us that they want to keep off of Borconia.
[20:52] [8:52pm] {[ND]Darek} we are at good terms withthem. at least we think so.
[20:52] [8:52pm] {@MasterZen} we are too
[20:52] [8:52pm] {[GS]zeit} what about monetary help for RP, this could solve their cashflow problem you mentioned...
[20:52] [8:52pm] {[GS]zeit} any ideas on that?
[20:53] [8:53pm] {@MasterZen} that is a possibility
[20:53] [8:53pm] {[GS]zeit} or maybe Chivalry...
[20:54] [8:54pm] {@MasterZen} not likely, we traded them Chiv and attached a no-trade clause even longer than the one we attached to you
[20:54] [8:54pm] {[GS]zeit} As for us- we have no intentions of lending them a hand
[20:55] [8:55pm] {[GS]zeit} we've no desire to help this conflict stretch longer
[20:55] [8:55pm] {@MasterZen} good, I'll be glad to see how they've dug their own hole by lying to everyone
[20:56] [8:56pm] {@MasterZen} me neither
[20:57] [8:57pm] {[ND]Darek} we are not the big war fans. But what has to be, has to be
[20:57] [8:57pm] {[GS]zeit} Like UnO said- its more about interests than that- they have kept a huge portion of Bob for themselves- they should back it with good diplomacy, but they havn't
[20:58] [8:58pm] {@MasterZen} at least not lying-hypocritical diplomacy, I think that's the difference
[20:59] [8:59pm] {@MasterZen} like GoW, I feel we have used diplomacy as our principal weapon, but we don't want to give the impression on teams that we say one thing to them then say an entrely different thing to the other slandering them
[20:59] [8:59pm] {[GS]zeit} well, we don't need to get into that here- we've all experienced their diplo-acts at some point...
[20:59] [8:59pm] {@MasterZen} because ultimately everyone will find out and get pissed at them. Which is why this is happening to RP. No team that I know of has love fo RP
[21:00] [9:00pm] {[GS]zeit} is there anything you want to discuss with us- something you wish to bring up?
[21:01] [9:01pm] {@MasterZen} well, we wanted to see if you had discussed the possibility of undertaking military action against RP too, and if so, on what terms.
[21:02] [9:02pm] {[GS]zeit} we have considered this, as you can probably imagine
[21:02] [9:02pm] {[GS]zeit} would you both approve of such intervention?
[21:03] [9:03pm] {[GS]zeit} (GoW-ND)
[21:03] [9:03pm] {@MasterZen} depends on the terms.
[21:03] [9:03pm] {@MasterZen} and I can't speak for ND
[21:03] [9:03pm] {[ND]Darek} I second that
[21:03] [9:03pm] {[GS]zeit} what do you have in mind?
[21:03] [9:03pm] {@MasterZen} well, we have 3 possibilites
[21:04] [9:04pm] {[ND]Darek} we would have som luxurys to share.
[21:04] [9:04pm] {[GS]zeit} i can say that we would definitely ask for a portion of RP's territory
[21:04] [9:04pm] {@MasterZen} 1) "scare" - simply send some galleys, scare the crap out of them, hopefully they'll lure troops over there
[21:04] [9:04pm] {@MasterZen} 2) joint operations - send troops, fight with us
[21:04] [9:04pm] {[GS]zeit} I doubt they'll move any forces with no real imminent threat, so i suppose 1 will be inneffective
[21:05] [9:05pm] {@MasterZen} 3) "peacekeeping" - send troops once RP is on the brink of defeat, that should deal them a death blow and they'll hopefully surrender their last cities
[21:05] [9:05pm] {[ND]Darek} aportion of the territory would be hard to accept for us.
[21:05] [9:05pm] {nye} why is that, Darekill?
[21:05] [9:05pm] {[GS]zeit} DareKill- won't you have enough of RP already?
[21:06] [9:06pm] {[GS]zeit} i mean, RP is HUGE
[21:06] [9:06pm] {[ND]Darek} well we have to share borconia with GoW we have managed in hard negotiations to do that. if we give any territory to you all of this would be void and we have to start anew.
[21:07] [9:07pm] {[ND]Darek} your territory is not so small...
[21:07] [9:07pm] {nye} we would not be looking for large chuncks, Darekill
[21:07] [9:07pm] {[GS]zeit} but definitely problematic to defend- as it is a long strip
[21:08] [9:08pm] {[GS]zeit} we're looking for a strip of coastal area, that is of strategic significance for us
[21:08] [9:08pm] {[ND]Darek} defnd against whom? we are not looking for more territory.
[21:08] [9:08pm] {@MasterZen} why so? how does a strip of coastal area make GS more secure?
[21:09] [9:09pm] {[GS]zeit} after RP is gone, the game is not over, as far as i know
[21:09] [9:09pm] {[GS]zeit} wars will still be part of the game, and GS wishes to keep its ass covered, so to speak
[21:10] [9:10pm] {[ND]Darek} so do we and give gs a part of borconia isn't that good an idea
[21:10] [9:10pm] {nye} well, darekill
[21:10] [9:10pm] {SirRalph} well... why else would we help you? do you have an offer?
[21:10] [9:10pm] {nye} some parts of rp are much closer to important bits of gs than of ND
[21:10] [9:10pm] {@MasterZen} agreed. but a small strip of coastal land seems more like a potential beachhead than a defensive bastion. If someone invades GS that little strip is worthless
[21:11] [9:11pm] {nye} it prevents the invasion from having come from there
[21:11] [9:11pm] {@MasterZen} what we had proposed is that this land be temporary. Until we, and if we, undertake action against that "other" civ
[21:11] [9:11pm] {nye} or do you think we do not know our own position and priorities?
[21:11] [9:11pm] {@MasterZen} agreed, but invasions can come both ways
[21:12] [9:12pm] {nye} true
[21:12] [9:12pm] {[ND]Darek} we could have trade agreements. MPPs+NAPs Luxurys to share technology to exchange ther is so much more to give you but territory
[21:12] [9:12pm] {@MasterZen} hence our own security concerns
[21:12] [9:12pm] {nye} and we are far from anything important to both ND and GoW
[21:12] [9:12pm] {@MasterZen} would you consider it temporary until you get the big chuck of Lego?
[21:13] [9:13pm] {SirRalph} what will we do during this time? build your infrastructure?
[21:13] [9:13pm] {nye} much of it, possibly yes
[21:14] [9:14pm] {nye} there is a very small part of rp that we deem strategically vital
[21:14] [9:14pm] {nye} and do not want to see in anyones hands but our own
[21:14] [9:14pm] {@MasterZen} the Bilbao-Madrid area I suppose
[21:14] [9:14pm] {nye} no. not bilbao
[21:14] [9:14pm] {nye} south
[21:14] [9:14pm] {@MasterZen} around Barcelona?
[21:14] [9:14pm] {nye} where there are 2 lux, and 1 turn crossings to stormia
[21:16] [9:16pm] {[GS]zeit} Barc-Valencia, i believe
[21:16] [9:16pm] {@MasterZen} ok
[21:16] [9:16pm] {nye} up to new madrid
[21:16] [9:16pm] {@MasterZen} well, you are aware that's a pretty big chunk
[21:17] [9:17pm] {nye} not really, compared to all of bob
[21:17] [9:17pm] {nye} and it is a lot of plains and desert
[21:17] [9:17pm] {@MasterZen} not all of bob is colonized
[21:17] [9:17pm] {nye} we assume it will be
[21:17] [9:17pm] {[GS]zeit} you don't excpect to get their entire cities, right?
[21:18] [9:18pm] {[ND]Darek} well if you want some pices of borconia would you consider it fair that we get each a city on estonia?
[21:18] [9:18pm] {@Panzer32} so you would want Barcelona, Valencia, and New Madrid?
[21:18] [9:18pm] {nye} why? did you sned help to slay vox?
[21:19] [9:19pm] {nye} panzer, yes
[21:19] [9:19pm] {@Panzer32} why Valencia? There are no 1 turn crossings
[21:19] [9:19pm] {@Panzer32} oh, the lux
[21:20] [9:20pm] {@MasterZen} of course in exchange for that you'd have to invervene you know? If no deal regarding military intervention is reached, I don't imagine us supporting a GS presence on the continent.
[21:20] [9:20pm] {@Panzer32} what if, hypothetically, we said you could have them if you captured them yourselves?
[21:20] [9:20pm] {nye} that is understood
[21:20] [9:20pm] {nye} panzer. we could talk about it
[21:20] [9:20pm] {[GS]zeit} "you get what you fight for",
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DeepO
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supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:26
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continued...
quote:
[21:20] [9:20pm] {@MasterZen} hehe
[21:21] [9:21pm] {@MasterZen} all of this is of course just ideas. Nothing definite. I don't want anyone to lose their cool over things that are nowhere near being concrete.
[21:21] [9:21pm] {nye} agreed
[21:22] [9:22pm] {[GS]zeit} you're talking with the GS, remember?
[21:22] [9:22pm] {@MasterZen} you're talking to me, remember? :P
[21:22] [9:22pm] {[GS]zeit} as for the Lux- you don't need spices, but we do
[21:24] [9:24pm] {@MasterZen} yes we do, you think that squid we're going to capture is going to taste good without any spices?? :P
[21:25] [9:25pm] {[GS]zeit} so,is there a basis for negotiation, regarding that strip of coast- could that work for both ND and GoW?
[21:25] [9:25pm] {@MasterZen} here's an idea:
[21:25] [9:25pm] {[ND]Darek} let's hear it.
[21:26] [9:26pm] {@MasterZen} you get Valencia. You get all the free luxes both ND and GoW have and you don't. We agree to a NAP while that city is on our continent. Contract ends after the successful conclusion of a war with Lego.
[21:27] [9:27pm] {@MasterZen} We can still give you the free luxes after the Lego war
[21:27] [9:27pm] {@MasterZen} with RP and Lux destroyed there's only 4 civs we each can trade a lux to
[21:27] [9:27pm] {[GS]zeit} hmm.. a strip of coastal land, maybe, perhaps Valencia+Barcelona?
[21:27] [9:27pm] {nye} MZ. we deem the area vital. strategically
[21:28] [9:28pm] {@MasterZen} nye: so do we, as I said, invasions go both ways
[21:28] [9:28pm] {nye} mz. we can't amhip you from there. you can us
[21:29] [9:29pm] {@MasterZen} why can't you? it's a galley trip away..
[21:29] [9:29pm] {[ND]Darek} there will soon be larger ships too.
[21:30] [9:30pm] {nye} i am not going to argue about why gs feels the area important. i have told you.
[21:30] [9:30pm] {[ND]Darek} I still do not like the thought of GS on borconia.
[21:30] [9:30pm] {[ND]Darek} nopt if it is forever.
[21:30] [9:30pm] {[ND]Darek} temporarily maybe but not for all times.
[21:30] [9:30pm] {@MasterZen} no, I understand why you feel it vital. But our security concerns are vital too.
[21:31] [9:31pm] {@MasterZen} well, let's get some agreement here, the idea I proposed, can it be a "start"? I mean, can we start negotiating from that point?
[21:32] [9:32pm] {nye} not really, mz
[21:32] [9:32pm] {nye} it does not address gs's concerns
[21:32] [9:32pm] {nye} i am puzzeled why it is necessary to keep bob to 2 civs
[21:32] [9:32pm] {nye} that is a massive amount of land
[21:33] [9:33pm] {@Panzer32} so you want all 3 cities or nothing?
[21:33] [9:33pm] {nye} those are the areas we deem vital.
[21:33] [9:33pm] {[ND]Darek} i'm puzzeled why the largest nation in the game needs some of borconia.
[21:33] [9:33pm] {nye} there were other areas we like, but can live happily without
[21:33] [9:33pm] {@MasterZen} and like I said, Bob is far from being entirely colonized
[21:34] [9:34pm] {nye} the future, Darekill. count tiles.
[21:34] [9:34pm] {SirRalph} that is not an argument. its a matter of time
[21:34] [9:34pm] {@MasterZen} you have 18 cities alone in the GS lands, no Bob civ has that amount
[21:34] [9:34pm] {@MasterZen} yes but time makes them productive too, it's not the same to have 30 shitty cities than 15 strong ones
[21:34] [9:34pm] {nye} tiles support pop. count tiles
[21:35] [9:35pm] {nye} brb
[21:35] [9:35pm] {@MasterZen} if we give you 3 cities, what guarantee do we have that's not going to be used for a massive invasion by GS?
[21:35] [9:35pm] {@Panzer32} who has the save, anyways?
[21:35] [9:35pm] {[GS]zeit} pop is real resource- and Bob's fertile lands certainly support more than stormia's
[21:36] [9:36pm] {[GS]zeit} even when devided to 2
[21:36] {DeepO} don't forget corruption... we're long stretched
[21:36] [9:36pm] {@MasterZen} agreed, but will you agree this to be temporary until you get lego?
[21:37] [9:37pm] {[GS]zeit} maybe, i can't say for certain, as they say in arabic
[21:37] [9:37pm] {[GS]zeit} shwoye shwoye- one step at a time
[21:38] [9:38pm] {@MasterZen} it'll be hard for us to accept anything as permanent...
[21:39] [9:39pm] {[GS]zeit} i can understand that, but all this talk about lego- its just a plan, who knows what'll happen by that time...
[21:41] [9:41pm] {@MasterZen} well, unless you have other plans, I honestly don't see a better alternative than Lego being next
[21:41] {DeepO} GS?
[21:41] [9:41pm] {@MasterZen} they're the civ most likely to win if left alone
[21:41] {DeepO} that may be true
[21:42] {DeepO} but we have little assurances we're so safe
[21:42] {DeepO} and given the tile count
[21:42] [9:42pm] {@MasterZen} look at it this way,
[21:42] [9:42pm] {@MasterZen} if we don't reach any agreement regarding intervention and settlement on Bob, how is that going to make you any safer?
[21:43] {DeepO} MZ, no offense, but having an agreement regarding intervention is a 'gift' from us
[21:43] {DeepO} we could very well take RP if we wanted to
[21:43] {DeepO} but that is not our plan...
[21:43] [9:43pm] Borc (Borc@pD9E50D70.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined. «9 people»
[21:44] {DeepO} hi Borc
[21:44] {DeepO} maybe you could get us out of this impasse
[21:44] [9:44pm] {SirRalph} hello Borc
[21:44] [9:44pm] {Borc} hi, had to install mirc first at home
[21:44] [9:44pm] {@MasterZen} hehe
[21:44] [9:44pm] {[ND]Darek} hi borc.
[21:44] [9:44pm] {@MasterZen} hello Borc
[21:44] [9:44pm] Borc (Borc@pD9E50D70.dip.t-dialin.net) is now known as [ND]Borc
[21:44] [9:44pm] {[ND]Darek} We ar talking baout how GS can support opur war with RP.
[21:44] [9:44pm] {@MasterZen} I don't see it so much as an impasse simply as this is not an easy topic to deal with.
[21:44] {DeepO} agreed
[21:45] [9:45pm] {@MasterZen} Both of us have our own security needs in mind, and it conflicts with the other's
[21:45] [9:45pm] {[ND]Darek} GS want's a part of Borconia. three citys.
[21:45] {DeepO} which we'll happily support your war for
[21:45] [9:45pm] {nye} back
[21:45] [9:45pm] {nye} hi borc
[21:45] [9:45pm] {[ND]Borc} spain cities?
[21:45] [9:45pm] {SirRalph} yes
[21:45] [9:45pm] {[ND]Borc} hi nye!
[21:46] [9:46pm] {@MasterZen} and it's quite understandable each of us is paranoid of the other. You have the biggest army right now, whereas the possibilty of Bob owned by 2 civs righfully scares you.
[21:46] [9:46pm] {@MasterZen} in that sense, neither of us is really being unreasonable.
[21:46] {DeepO} of course, that would leave 2 civs with about double the tile count of our own
[21:46] {DeepO} and with Lego still in this game, it would degrade us to ths smallest civ...
[21:46] {DeepO} after Vox, of course
[21:48] [9:48pm] {@MasterZen} hehe
[21:48] [9:48pm] {SirRalph} we're glad to entertain you, mz
[21:49] [9:49pm] {@MasterZen} :P
[21:50] [9:50pm] {@MasterZen} many years of negotiating has taught me that 99% of the time there is a middle ground. And that the other 1% is so damn obvious there isn't it is hardly worth starting to negotiate at all.
[21:50] {DeepO} there is a middle gground, for sure
[21:51] {DeepO} maybe that is our problem
[21:51] {DeepO} we know what you would want as a maximum
[21:51] {DeepO} you want Bob to your own, and our help to take out RP
[21:52] {DeepO} furtherr, you want to make sure we don't backstab you in any way, taking advantage of the situation
[21:52] {DeepO} We fully understand this
[21:52] [9:52pm] {@MasterZen} good
[21:52] {DeepO} and want to accomadte you
[21:52] [9:52pm] {@MasterZen} I knew we were getting to each other
[21:52] {DeepO} so... we ask for seeing our PoV too
[21:53] {DeepO} we can't have 2 civs on Bob, controlling too much territory and all the uxes
[21:53] {DeepO} without any assurances
[21:53] [9:53pm] {SirRalph} assurances are nothing
[21:53] {DeepO} further, we have a large amry that is wasting money in upkeep
[21:53] [9:53pm] {@MasterZen} in writing they are
[21:53] {DeepO} and a couple of StormHawks with itchy fingers
[21:53] {DeepO} assurances in writing? Sorry...
[21:53] {DeepO} much better to hold a couple of civs
[21:54] {DeepO} with not too much tiles
[21:54] {DeepO} and some (not all) luxes
[21:54] [9:54pm] {nye} cities, i think you menat
[21:54] {DeepO}
[21:54] {DeepO} yeah...
[21:54] [9:54pm] {nye} *ment
[21:54] {DeepO} so.. maybe there is a middle ground
[21:54] [9:54pm] {@MasterZen} so, I think a tradeoff is in place here: we tradeoff you having cities, you tradeoff that they be temporary until Lego is gone
[21:54] {DeepO} but IMHO we have given your PoV a lot of thought
[21:55] {DeepO} and perhaps you could give ours some PoV as well?
[21:55] «SirRalph in #GStalks at 9:55pm» wow... DeepO is bullying more than I suggested to. I'm astounded
[21:55] {DeepO} that could be possible...
[21:55] [9:55pm] {nye} mz, the temporary issue. will the land move and be further from stormia?
[21:55] [9:55pm] {@MasterZen} we will, trust me. In fact this will take quite some time
[21:56] [9:56pm] {@MasterZen} it is doubtful we will agree on anything today, but this is all a start. Big plans take time to lay out
[21:56] {DeepO} but plans are plans...
[21:56] {DeepO} and big pplans involving Lego are difficult
[21:56] {DeepO} although we fully support the discussion
[21:56] {DeepO} we want to reach some agreement with both of you
[21:56] {DeepO} let this noty be misunderstood
[21:57] [9:57pm] {@MasterZen} it is understood by me that this is a touchy subject, that we are smart and mature enough to eventually reach some sort of agreement, but also that it will take time.
[21:58] {DeepO} agreed, mz
[21:58] {DeepO} but how much time do we have?
[21:58] {DeepO} I mean... RP is going down
[21:59] {DeepO} and we better have an agreement before laying out plans where to invade them
[21:59] {DeepO} (if at all)
[21:59] «nye in #GStalks at 9:59pm» going good, deepo
[21:59] [9:59pm] {@MasterZen} perhaps sooner than we think, perhaps later... but I think the first turns will be crucial
[21:59] {DeepO} agreed again
[21:59] {DeepO} which is another concern of us
[21:59] {DeepO} we don't want to jump in too late
[21:59] [9:59pm] {@MasterZen} the overall destruction of RP might take time, but there's always a point in which you know your opponent is defeated
[22:00] {DeepO} and give tyou the feeling that we took advantage
[22:00] [10:00pm] {[ND]Darek} we have to discuss that in our forum too you know.
[22:00] {DeepO} we want some RP meat, damnit!
[22:00] [10:00pm] {@MasterZen} hahaha, I see you have no love for them either
[22:00] {DeepO} are you kidding?
[22:00] [10:00pm] {@MasterZen} and its not meat, it's SQUID.
[22:00] {DeepO} I don't hold anything against them personally
[22:00] [10:00pm] {@MasterZen} nah, just as a team
[22:01] [10:01pm] {@MasterZen} most of my english-speaking poly friends are RPers, so it really kinda turns my stomach to know I'm at war with them. But it's just a game.
[22:01] {DeepO} indeed...
[22:01] {DeepO} and one RP will not win
[22:01] {DeepO} but they can still do a lot of damaga
[22:02] {DeepO} you'd be surprised to see how much Vox damaged us
[22:02] [10:02pm] {@MasterZen} yep
[22:02] {DeepO} so... here's timing again
[22:02] [10:02pm] {[GS]zeit} just by having us wasted the GA
[22:02] {DeepO} if this war drags out so long that both of your GAs are over
[22:02] {DeepO} and their UU is coming up... auch
[22:03] {DeepO} one sec, I have to go for the moment
[22:03] [10:03pm] {@MasterZen} if they survive till then, I expect them to be totally crippled...
[22:04] «[GS]zeit in #GStalks at 10:04pm» my too- sorry DeepO
[22:05] {DeepO} sorry guys, I'll try to keep an eye on this, but I have to leave...
[22:05] [10:05pm] {@MasterZen} ok, don't worry
[22:05] [10:05pm] {@MasterZen} are you guys up for a later chat, say next week?
[22:05] [10:05pm] {[ND]Borc} would be great!
[22:05] [10:05pm] {@MasterZen} we can inform you on how the war is going and we can start brushing up on this deal
[22:06] [10:06pm] {[ND]Darek} as i said before we have to discuss that at home in ND.
[22:06] [10:06pm] {[GS]zeit} sure thing- we would do so as well
[22:06] [10:06pm] {nye} ok. a further chat would be good
[22:06] [10:06pm] {nye} 7 days might be a bit long
[22:06] [10:06pm] {[GS]OPD} depends how quickly the turns will be played
[22:06] [10:06pm] {@MasterZen} plus, we'd have a better idea if RP is going to collapse like a deck of cards or if its going to be one hard slog
[22:06] [10:06pm] {@MasterZen} I don't think they'll be played pretty quick
[22:07] [10:07pm] {[ND]Darek} we take our time and we need it. it's war after all.
[22:07] [10:07pm] {@MasterZen} that's why 1 week isn't as long as it seems, plus with all the problems Poly has been ahving..
[22:07] [10:07pm] {[GS]zeit} it remains to be seen- but i share your estimate on RP's standing firm for some time
[22:08] [10:08pm] {[GS]OPD} Is 1800gmt ok for you guys again??
[22:08] [10:08pm] {[GS]zeit} i really don't know what time is good for you guys- but perhaps the beggining of next week?
[22:08] [10:08pm] {@MasterZen} 1800 seems fine
[22:09] [10:09pm] {[ND]Darek} 1800gmt is the time we startet today right?
[22:09] [10:09pm] {@Panzer32} yes
[22:09] [10:09pm] {[ND]Darek} thats good for me.
[22:09] [10:09pm] {[ND]Borc} ok.. next thuirsday right?
[22:09] [10:09pm] {@MasterZen} if things speed up we can have it before
[22:10] [10:10pm] {@MasterZen} me and nye are in the ISDG chat every night so re-scheduling would not be a problem
[22:10] [10:10pm] {nye} yes. Borc and Darekill...
[22:10] [10:10pm] {[GS]OPD} cool
[22:10] [10:10pm] {nye} i can be found many times in irc in your morning
[22:11] [10:11pm] {nye} i think OPD will be getting in touch with you, for us. soon
[22:11] [10:11pm] {[GS]OPD} have to keep up to date with developments
[22:12] [10:12pm] {[GS]OPD} hmmn 1 sec
[22:12] [10:12pm] {@MasterZen} don't worry, whenever you need an official war-update, contact us
[22:12] [10:12pm] {[GS]zeit} I'm having a trip to Italy, so i'll be off-duty for a while,
[22:13] [10:13pm] {[GS]OPD} who has the save now?
[22:13] [10:13pm] {[ND]Darek} we have it but not for much longer
[22:14] [10:14pm] {[GS]OPD} will ND be attacking RP this turn?
[22:15] [10:15pm] {@MasterZen} patience my blood-lusting friend...
[22:16] [10:16pm] {[GS]zeit}
[22:16] [10:16pm] {[ND]Darek} not this turn but next.
[22:16] [10:16pm] {[GS]OPD} cheers
[22:17] [10:17pm] {[GS]OPD} ok so 1800 GMT next thursday
[22:17] [10:17pm] {[GS]OPD} here again.
[22:17] [10:17pm] {@MasterZen} I'm going to be afk for about 10 min. brb
[22:17] [10:17pm] {@MasterZen} yep
[22:17] [10:17pm] {@MasterZen} same GoW-time
[22:17] [10:17pm] {@MasterZen} same GoW-channel
[22:17] [10:17pm] {[GS]zeit} have fun everyone, i gtg, bye!
[22:18] [10:18pm] {@MasterZen} ok, thanks for coming all of you
[22:18] [10:18pm] {[ND]Borc} ok... i have to leave also... lets rock!
[22:18] [10:18pm] {[ND]Darek} fine.
[22:18] [10:18pm] Quits: [GS]zeit (Zeit@adsl-188-25.barak.net.il) (Quit)
[22:18] [10:18pm] [ND]Borc (Borc@pD9E50D70.dip.t-dialin.net) has parted. «7 people»
[22:19] [10:19pm] MasterZen (Master@dup-200-66-230-123.prodigy.net.mx) is now known as MZ|brb
[22:20] [10:20pm] {nye} bye
[22:20] [10:20pm] [ND]Darek (~darekill@D94d7.pppool.de) has parted. «6 people»
[22:20] [10:20pm] nye (notyoueith@h24-86-76-127.ed.shawcable.net) has parted. «5 people»
[22:20] {DeepO} woops.. I'm I the only one still in here from GS?
[22:20] {DeepO} I'll leave then, so you guys can safely discuss things
[22:21] [10:21pm] {SirRalph} me too
[22:21] {DeepO} nice to have chatted with you, let's certainly do it again later
[22:21] [10:21pm] {SirRalph} bye
[22:21] {DeepO} bye
[22:21] [10:21pm] SirRalph (~sirralph@pD9E00C03.dip.t-dialin.net) has parted. (bye) «4 people»
[22:21] [10:21pm] {@MZ|brb} yes, we will
[22:21] [10:21pm] {@MZ|brb} thanks for coming
[22:21] {DeepO} my pleasure
Session Close: Thu Jul 17 22:21:32 2003
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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:26
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Response PM from UnO:
quote:
RE: RE: Proof of MPP's
Hey Arrian,
I posted a response, but it got buried in a hurry. Please relay this to the team as well.
I can understand hesitation, sure. I'll be frank. Was there an MPP? Yes. Did it expire? Im looking right now, this is difficult, more on that in a minute.
Our team does not consider MPP's an NAP. I have told NYE that, but more importantly ROLEPLAY knew that. They had no right to be expecting it as an NAP. I can prove that RP believed them TWO SEPERATE deals as well, but am hesitant to do so, given the proof is negotiations between RP and myself. If, however, it will ease GS relations, I will poll on it.
I will tell you this. In my negotiations with RP, they drafted a contract that specifically stated it was to be seen as BOTH an MPP and a NAP. Tell me, if MPP included an NAP to them, would they have specified both in the contract I was negotiating?
RP knew they were seperate negotiations, they are only now complaining to suit their own needs. As far as GS and negotiations in the future, make sure you get an NAP with us if you want to be safe from attack. It is as simple as that, and the reason we were hell bent on sigining one with you guys in the first place.
Now. The MPP in question is a dubious piece of writing at its best. There was no mention of a starting date or turn, nor was there mention of an ENDING date or turn, just a general 'this is for 30 turns'. We have learned from this and will change documenting procedures in the future.
What I do know is RP has continually changed how many turns are left on it in their private discussions with us. Again, I can prduce evidence but hesitate to do so. We acted under the belief that it had expired. Plain and simple. RP's last statement even claims it expires after the present turn. Given the ambiguity of the contract, I feel RP is again attempting to stretch it so that we appear to have violated. However, also given the ambiguity, I cannot prove such, hence we are not publicly crying out in such a manner. Lets just say RP and ourselves disagree on when it ended. It is easier to use what we CAN prove, publicly: It was not an NAP, and RP knew it.
Anything else, please feel free to ask.
- UnOrthOdOx (Cole) |
I sent back a quick "I understand if you can't provide documentation. Thanks for the explanantion. I'll post it."
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notyoueither
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of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:26
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Received from UnO.
quote:
UnOrthOdOx wrote on 20-07-2003 09:34:
Honorable zeit,
I am sorry for not being able to make the chat. With Poly down, I have no way to access a chat program from work. Had poly remained, I would have been able to attend via Java.
It seems it was an impasse. However, I have one last idea, and i copy it here as posted in our forum:
quote:
Just an idea.
I was looking over the chatlog of the three-way chat.
What if....
we have only discussed either us getting those cities that GS wants, or them. THey don't want to leave them to someone else for security reasons. We don't want them having a beachhead for security reasons.
What IF...we agree to making that a demilitarized zone?
GS gets the cities until the end of Lego. At that time they are disbanded, and only colonies are left on the lux. No settlement is allowed. I don't have the map at the moment, but we each make sure we all have that lux. IE, a colony for GoW, ND, and GS. 1 defender each or some such, and outposts to clear the fog.
Then, we would be able to see a landing, and respond as if it were an invasion. They would see ships and respond the same.
It is an idea, and only an idea. What do you think? |
I don't see how permanant cities are going to work, frankly. It is too convenient of a beachhead for invasions.
As laid out, temporary cities until Lego is dealt with, then you move to lego and disband the cities. Some # of turns can be reached to allow this to happen, I am sure. Next, this area is left unsettled, and we all build outposts and colonies. The outposts allow us both to see if the other is intending an invasion. There would be no one move navy outposts to invade GS, and there would be no beachhead to invade Bob. Currently this is only my ramblings, but I see it as the only compromise possible under the circumstances. Surely GS can understand the hesitation to give a nation a beachhead onto Bob, and we can certainly understand the hesitation on GS's part to have a one-turn shipping lane to Stormia. Perhaps something can be arranged, therefore.
It is in all our interest to finish this as soon as possible and move to Lego. The longer we all wait, the tougher they become.
Respectfully,
UnOrthOdOx
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notyoueither
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of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:26
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On the carpet, with GoW
quote:
Session Start: Mon Jul 21 18:45:47 2003
Session Ident: #GoW
[18:45] * Now talking in #GoW
[18:45] * UnOrthOdOx sets mode: +o notyoueither
[18:46] * UnOrthOdOx sets mode: +k Raiders
[18:46] *UnOrthOdOx* How are things?
[18:46] *notyoueither* just one moment. i was sort of in the middle of a post
[18:47] * UnOrthOdOx sets mode: +p
[18:47] *UnOrthOdOx* NP, so am I
[18:47] *UnOrthOdOx* Being President and all...
[18:48] *notyoueither* cool. i hope that game goes well, i am not paying too much attention. sort of busy
[18:49] *UnOrthOdOx* It's...difficult
[18:49] *UnOrthOdOx* Just getting attention, really
[18:49] *notyoueither* too many games going on
[18:49] *UnOrthOdOx* yep.
[18:49] *UnOrthOdOx* It's the least interesting despite the interesting settings
[18:50] *notyoueither* i would be fascinated, if it were not to prior commitments
[18:50] *UnOrthOdOx* Alright shall we get to the business at hand?
[18:50] *notyoueither* sure
[18:51] *UnOrthOdOx* First the NAP, is there a reason for me not having a copy yet?
[18:51] *notyoueither* i chatted with mz. did you see a log?
[18:51] *notyoueither* zeit tole me he sent it to you
[18:51] *UnOrthOdOx* Nope, let me check the forum, been busy in the SPDG
[18:51] *notyoueither* i am sending you a copy of the NAP
[18:52] *UnOrthOdOx* Nope, nothing in my PM or E-mail history (and I am BAD at clearing it.)
[18:53] *UnOrthOdOx* IM checking our forum for a log...
[18:54] *UnOrthOdOx* Nothing was posted, but there is a possible reason for this...
[18:54] *UnOrthOdOx* I am considering resigning as your ambassador.
[18:54] *UnOrthOdOx* Informed MZ today to begin looking for a replacement.
[18:54] *UnOrthOdOx* When did you chat?
[18:54] *UnOrthOdOx* Today?
[18:57] *notyoueither* yes, after i got to work and got on top of things. i logged on to mirc to follow up with you. mz was there.
[18:58] *notyoueither* unfortunately, that computer was not set to log
[18:58] *UnOrthOdOx* Ok, what was covered then?
[18:58] *UnOrthOdOx* Sorry for having to ask.
[18:58] *notyoueither* it would be too bad to lose you as our ambassador
[18:58] *UnOrthOdOx* Not professional
[18:58] *notyoueither* np
[18:58] *notyoueither* i will copy into here my summary of it to gs
[18:58] *UnOrthOdOx* I will try to remain, but...I want to devote more time to the newseditor...
[18:59] *notyoueither* ahh. ok
[18:59] *UnOrthOdOx* Perhaps just temporary till my Presidency is over.
[18:59] *notyoueither* MZ: We'd like to know what is going on.
[18:59] *notyoueither* nye: Well, ND made it clear that we were unwelcome on Bob. Spain has been more acommodating.
[18:59] *notyoueither* MZ: I bet they sold their souls. I have less respect for them.
[18:59] *notyoueither* MZ: We will repect the NAP. But our Riders will pursue RP to the ends of the Earth.
[18:59] *notyoueither* nye: OK. We will respect the NAP too.
[18:59] *notyoueither* MZ: We expect ND will bypass your cities as well.
[18:59] *notyoueither* nye: btw, our cultural borders are important to us
[18:59] *notyoueither* MZ: If you attack ND, we would see that as very serious.
[18:59] *notyoueither* nye: OK
[19:00] *notyoueither* some of the phrasing is inexact. i could not recall all of it
[19:00] *notyoueither* and the sequence may be a little out of order
[19:00] *UnOrthOdOx* Short then.
[19:01] *notyoueither* yes. i did not have much time. work
[19:01] *UnOrthOdOx* Can you divulge the nature of your contract with RP?
[19:01] *UnOrthOdOx* And, also, I take it this means you decline the compromise I sent along?
[19:02] *notyoueither* the discussions with spain continue
[19:02] *notyoueither* compromise? let me look at that again
[19:02] *UnOrthOdOx* Of course. Do you have an NAP with RP then?
[19:03] *UnOrthOdOx* I copied you...PM named Chat Response
[19:03] *notyoueither* yes. got it
[19:03] *UnOrthOdOx* Sorry for not making that chat, I believe it would have been more productive if I had been there to suggest it at that time.
[19:03] *notyoueither* looking to refresh my memory
[19:04] *notyoueither* that was an interesting compromise. it might have worked if it had come several days earlier
[19:05] *notyoueither* unfortunately, our reading of the chat was that nd wanted to grow too big.
[19:05] *notyoueither* and would brook no compromise
[19:06] *UnOrthOdOx* Well, is it too late to reconsider?
[19:06] *UnOrthOdOx* This is not official yet, but it has received positive feedback from ND and GoW so far
[19:07] *notyoueither* we will not attack spain at this point
[19:07] *UnOrthOdOx* Alright...would you consider not assisting them for this?
[19:07] *notyoueither* i could not assure that
[19:07] *UnOrthOdOx* May I be frank?
[19:08] *notyoueither* please do
[19:08] *UnOrthOdOx* How does this accomplish your goals?
[19:08] * Panzer32 has joined #gow
[19:09] *Panzer32* mind if Trip comes in?
[19:09] *notyoueither* np
[19:09] *notyoueither* well, UnO. I mentioned that the territory we discussed was considered very important to GS.
[19:09] * Trip has joined #gow
[19:10] *UnOrthOdOx* I understand that, but it also delays any possible invasion of Lego does it not?
[19:10] *UnOrthOdOx* And, it seems you gave up on all negotiations before they were finished.
[19:10] *notyoueither* possibly. we do not know how diplo between rp and nd will play out. actually, we have no clue
[19:11] *UnOrthOdOx* Your goal then is to cease this and focus us all on Lego?
[19:12] *notyoueither* our first goal was to secure the territory we mentioned.
[19:12] *notyoueither* we do not know what else is possible now
[19:12] * UnOrthOdOx sets mode: +o Panzer32
[19:12] * UnOrthOdOx sets mode: +o Trip
[19:13] *Panzer32* why do you accept the western RP city then? It is nowhere near where you want
[19:13] *notyoueither* rp's idea
[19:13] *notyoueither* i suppose that they just want to deny nd
[19:14] *notyoueither* i assume they are discussing as fast as their pms and emails can fly
[19:14] *UnOrthOdOx* Do you intend to attack ND?
[19:14] *notyoueither* i saw the nd peace terms post. is that underway
[19:14] *notyoueither* ?
[19:14] *UnOrthOdOx* ?
[19:14] *UnOrthOdOx* Peace terms?
[19:15] *Panzer32* link?
[19:15] *UnOrthOdOx* I missed that one
[19:15] *notyoueither* nd posted that they had delivered terms to rp
[19:15] *notyoueither* in their embassy thread
[19:15] *Panzer32* oh, the turn all the cities over to them one?
[19:16] *UnOrthOdOx* nye, I have one question really remaining.
[19:16] *UnOrthOdOx* Why did we learn of this third hand?
[19:16] *notyoueither* We have only declared war on spain here in the public so far. Our troops have crossed the borders and are ready to begin the war next turn. This is the last chance for Roleplay to surrender. This must be a surrender without conditions we will tell you what we want and you will obey. If you do not capitulate the war will start.
[19:17] *Panzer32* uh huh
[19:17] *notyoueither* UnO. it was not final until very late last night/ early this morning
[19:17] *Panzer32* do you think that RP would agree to that?
[19:17] *notyoueither* i was out of gas
[19:17] *notyoueither* zeit has not been arounbd
[19:18] *notyoueither* that is why i made a point of coming back on from work
[19:18] *UnOrthOdOx* An unfortunate set of circumstances then.
[19:18] *notyoueither* yes
[19:18] *UnOrthOdOx* Same as my compromise not making it in time.
[19:18] *notyoueither* yes
[19:19] *UnOrthOdOx* Would it be possible to work on that compromise in exchange for no furhter assistance given to RP?
[19:20] *UnOrthOdOx* I personally see it as the only way for all of us to remain at peace throughout a Lego campaign
[19:20] *notyoueither* i think that that proposal, involving nd, is off the table from our pov
[19:20] *notyoueither* i have a q
[19:20] *UnOrthOdOx* sure
[19:20] *notyoueither* will gow respect our cultural borders?
[19:21] *notyoueither* gs cultural borders
[19:21] *UnOrthOdOx* I cannot give an official answer yet.
[19:21] *notyoueither* we do not have an rop
[19:21] *Panzer32* you block our path to RP and ask us to respect the borders?
[19:21] *notyoueither* that is the position of gs
[19:21] *UnOrthOdOx* The world changed suddenly on us
[19:21] *notyoueither* yes, uno. it did
[19:21] *UnOrthOdOx* Can an RoP be arranged?
[19:22] *notyoueither* we are sorry that it is gow that this has come to pass with
[19:22] *notyoueither* RoP could be discussed
[19:22] *notyoueither* it would not be likely in the near future
[19:22] *UnOrthOdOx* Well, you have placed us in a difficult set of circumstances.
[19:23] *UnOrthOdOx* If you choose to block us, it will hamper our agreements.
[19:23] *notyoueither* i understand. similar to when we found out that rp was the target, and we were to be denied land that we considered vital
[19:23] *UnOrthOdOx* I never saw that as a closed negotiation.
[19:23] *UnOrthOdOx* Just as an ongoing one.
[19:23] *notyoueither* time closed it. nd's attitude is clear
[19:24] *notyoueither* they want to be a super civ
[19:24] *UnOrthOdOx* My idea would have worked.
[19:24] *notyoueither* one that would be better to take on than lego, perhaps
[19:24] *Panzer32* And what if we do the same thing you did to us (ie just march through your territory, temporarily)?
[19:25] *notyoueither* we marched through you territory?
[19:25] *UnOrthOdOx* ?
[19:25] *Panzer32* figurativly
[19:25] *UnOrthOdOx* Look, nye.
[19:25] *notyoueither* we regard cultural borders as something to be respected
[19:26] *notyoueither* we would consider that we were being hostile if we violated yours
[19:26] *UnOrthOdOx* We only come to this course after considering everyone's position. We were under the impression that RP was what you would back.
[19:26] *notyoueither* it was possible, UnO. and then we were met with nd's attitude of zenophobia
[19:26] *UnOrthOdOx* I have statements from several members stating such
[19:27] *UnOrthOdOx* You can see our confusion then.
[19:27] *notyoueither* yes. we can
[19:27] *notyoueither* brb
[19:28] *UnOrthOdOx* Panzer, I need to bath my son, B back in about 5 min.
[19:28] *Panzer32* ok
[19:33] *notyoueither* good to go, UnO. Take your time
[19:34] *UnOrthOdOx* Alright.
[19:34] *notyoueither* could i ask, how extensive are your agreements with nd?
[19:34] *UnOrthOdOx* The last thing we want is to have this descend into an all out war between RP/GS and ND/GoW
[19:34] *UnOrthOdOx* Right now, to take out RP.
[19:35] *notyoueither* understood
[19:35] *UnOrthOdOx* Beyond that, there is nothing.
[19:35] *notyoueither* ok
[19:35] *UnOrthOdOx* Not even an NAP.
[19:35] *UnOrthOdOx* Which is why we wanted you on the island...
[19:35] *UnOrthOdOx* However, this is not the best way to accomplish that.
[19:36] *notyoueither* we understand your view
[19:36] *UnOrthOdOx* I wish we would have been given an opportunity to have the compromise considered is all
[19:36] *notyoueither* so do i
[19:36] *notyoueither* what if rp could be directed towards lego?
[19:36] *UnOrthOdOx* Now, it is difficult to see your actions as anything other than aggressive.
[19:37] *UnOrthOdOx* Having us not even been informed beforehand.
[19:37] *UnOrthOdOx* ND meanwhile was at least informed.
[19:37] *UnOrthOdOx* This makes us question where we rank with GS.
[19:37] *notyoueither* understood
[19:37] *UnOrthOdOx* Our contract is for the destruction of RP.
[19:38] *notyoueither* again, what if rp could be directed at lego?
[19:38] *UnOrthOdOx* We will not break a contract.
[19:38] *notyoueither* can you tell me nay of the terms of that contract?
[19:38] *UnOrthOdOx* If ND is convinced to wish a change, though, it might be done.
[19:38] *notyoueither* *any
[19:39] *Panzer32* directed at Lego? What does this mean?
[19:39] *UnOrthOdOx* It is for the destruction of RP...plain and simple. And an agreement to split the island after.
[19:39] *notyoueither* did they pay you for the contract? what do you receive?
[19:40] *UnOrthOdOx* 1 we were guaranteed not to be the targets, 2. more territory, resources, lux...Civ related stuff.
[19:40] *UnOrthOdOx* Same as we all look for
[19:40] *notyoueither* was the territory defined?
[19:41] *UnOrthOdOx* No, it is to be split equally by tiles and resources.
[19:41] *notyoueither* ok
[19:41] *notyoueither* back to your question. i mean, what if rp could join in against lego?
[19:41] *UnOrthOdOx* I don't know
[19:41] *notyoueither* think on that
[19:41] *UnOrthOdOx* We would have to cross that bridge when it came.
[19:42] *UnOrthOdOx* However, can three Bobian civs now live peacefully?
[19:42] *notyoueither* another. is gow open to other contracts?
[19:42] *Panzer32* you mean a 4 way alliance against Lego?
[19:42] *UnOrthOdOx* As long as they do not violate our current ones.
[19:42] *UnOrthOdOx* We are always open.
[19:42] *notyoueither* ok
[19:43] *notyoueither* well, panzer. it appears that you are gaining from an association with nd, and we are gaining from an association with rp
[19:43] *notyoueither* 4 would be good. 3 could still work
[19:44] *UnOrthOdOx* You have 3 in mind?
[19:44] *notyoueither* i am asking hypotheticals largely. we are still getting used to the politics of bob
[19:44] *notyoueither* as i said. 4 would be good
[19:45] *UnOrthOdOx* I think WE are still getting used to the politics
[19:45] *notyoueither* heh
[19:45] *UnOrthOdOx* Can you give us any details of your arrangement with RP?
[19:46] *notyoueither* not really. sort of by the seat of the pants at the moment
[19:46] *notyoueither* we are fond of those who welcome us though
[19:46] *notyoueither* brb
[19:47] *notyoueither* back
[19:48] *UnOrthOdOx* Im afraid I am pressed for time and need to log off to call my wife before I put the kids to bed
[19:48] *Panzer32* ok
[19:48] *UnOrthOdOx* I must express that there are some on our team that see this as an act of aggression against us.
[19:48] *notyoueither* np, UnO. We both have much to think on. We can meet again
[19:49] *notyoueither* we understand
[19:49] *UnOrthOdOx* I honestly do not know how the team will go right now.
[19:49] *notyoueither* we don;t see how it is different from conquest by military means though
[19:49] *UnOrthOdOx* No, it is not.
[19:50] *notyoueither* someone mentioned racing to see who could get cities forst
[19:50] *UnOrthOdOx* Same as our buying the Vox city.
[19:50] *notyoueither* cool. then they will die
[19:50] *notyoueither* oh. you mean port isolation
[19:50] *notyoueither* sorry
[19:51] *notyoueither* i thought you meant another one
[19:52] *notyoueither* but, if they sold the last to you. our quarrel would be with them. not you.
[19:52] *UnOrthOdOx* Sorry, door
[19:52] *notyoueither* np
[19:53] *notyoueither* i just went into babble mode
[19:53] *UnOrthOdOx* I can see your buying what you set out for.
[19:53] *UnOrthOdOx* Beyond that, it seems more agressive.
[19:54] *notyoueither* i can understand there will be misgivings. there would be if we were beat to cities
[19:54] *UnOrthOdOx* And...hampering our efforts would not likely go over all that well either.
[19:55] *notyoueither* we understand completely, UnO. We felt the same about a recent chat
[19:56] *UnOrthOdOx* Sorry, did you answer if you would consider the compromise in exchange for no further help...I can't seem to find a response.
[19:56] *notyoueither* let me look
[19:57] *notyoueither* *notyoueither* i think that that proposal, involving nd, is off the table from our pov
[19:58] *notyoueither* we don;t trust them, UnO. They must get all the gains.
[19:58] *UnOrthOdOx* Based off one chat?
[19:58] *notyoueither* that has been their position since Vox
[19:59] *UnOrthOdOx* Vox?
[19:59] *notyoueither* don;t forget, wee were attacked by Vox as a result of their zenophobia
[19:59] *UnOrthOdOx* I didn't know they got involved in that.
[19:59] *UnOrthOdOx* Oh...
[19:59] *UnOrthOdOx* Ours and RP's as well.
[19:59] *notyoueither* if it were a squabble between you and Vox. we would not have been attacked, in all lekelihood
[19:59] *UnOrthOdOx* No, RP and ND all agreed to attack. |
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notyoueither
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of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:26
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cont.
quote:
[20:00] *notyoueither* yes. we can see rp wanting to scheme to get us embroiled in a war
[20:00] *Panzer32* how was Vox' position zenophobic? It made sense from a civ point of view; they were never going to win from that landmass
[20:00] *notyoueither* nd seems to believe that the biggest continent in the game by far is their divine right
[20:00] *notyoueither* not vox zenophobic, nd
[20:00] *Panzer32* nd was zenophobic why?
[20:00] *notyoueither* gs can not tolerate any civ that declares bob to be off limits
[20:01] *UnOrthOdOx* And you don't trust us to be able to deal with that, it seems.
[20:01] *Panzer32* er.. how?
[20:01] *notyoueither* t6hat means we lose, guaranteed.
[20:01] *UnOrthOdOx* You don't trust us to ensure ND does not grow powerfull, this is what has spurred this on then.
[20:01] *notyoueither* bob is just palin, flat out, way too big
[20:02] *notyoueither* *plain
[20:02] *UnOrthOdOx* Despite ongoing negotiations on our part to get you involved.
[20:02] *UnOrthOdOx* Which could have included our giving some of our own territory to you.
[20:02] *notyoueither* UnO, we are still left with the underlying motivation of ND since long, long, ago
[20:02] *UnOrthOdOx* We were just not given a chance.
[20:03] *UnOrthOdOx* I can see that, but you are also placing us at odds.
[20:03] *notyoueither* we are not saying it is war this second, UnO. We would like to find a way to find peaceful accomodations with GoW.
[20:03] *notyoueither* we were offered what we wanted. we took it.
[20:04] *notyoueither* nd will have to accept that, or there will be blows exchanged
[20:05] *UnOrthOdOx* nye, You must see where I am coming from. I had a proposal that gave you your security, us ours, and ND theirs.
[20:05] *UnOrthOdOx* Yet. It was denied.
[20:06] *UnOrthOdOx* It was sent to you before this deal with RP was finished if, as you say, it was finalized late last night.
[20:06] *notyoueither* UnO. What you proposed would see the growth of a gigantic ND, long before we ever saw a harvest on Lego.
[20:06] *notyoueither* i doubt you and we together could have contained them
[20:06] *UnOrthOdOx* It gave you cities on bob, the ones you asked for, durin that time.
[20:07] *Panzer32* Remember the territory agreement - ND and GoW would be THE SAME SIZE!
[20:07] *notyoueither* temporary. and most of RP for ND to grow in. that would have made them larger than lego
[20:07] *UnOrthOdOx* I feel that myself, my team, and my teams position were dismissed.
[20:07] *UnOrthOdOx* You know not how the map would have played out.
[20:07] *notyoueither* ND could have used the land, soon. and they were hostile to us. GoW would have taken a lot of time to make any land productive
[20:08] *Panzer32* your words still show that you do not know of the agreement; I assure you that the deal is more equitable than you think
[20:08] *UnOrthOdOx* You didn't give them a chance to view my proposal either. They were opposed to a beachhead. Anyone would be, it's smart civving!
[20:08] *notyoueither* UnO, we were never given information about which areas went to which. We were told we were not welcome to stay.
[20:09] *notyoueither* UnO, we understand that. Sometimes agreements can not be reached between friends even, but we saw and see ND as hostile to our presense on Bob, and that we can not abide.
[20:11] *UnOrthOdOx* I don't think hostile is the right word. Opposed to a beachhead, sure. It only makes sense.
[20:11] *notyoueither* From some PoV's, sure. However, as I said, count tiles. Pop is power.
[20:12] *notyoueither* We have power now, but it wanes. Too few tiles.
[20:12] *UnOrthOdOx* And once RR are created you will be as invincible as Lego, yet you wanted a beachead to further your expansion after that.
[20:13] *Panzer32* do you have the # of tiles of Estonia?
[20:13] *notyoueither* We were being asked to assist in the enlargement of a civ that was hostile to our interests, and to do it with no permanent gain for us, til way down the road. In the meantime, that hotile civ would have become the largest in the game.
[20:13] *notyoueither* Panzer, I will get them for you
[20:13] *Panzer32* now or later?
[20:13] *notyoueither* we wanted a beachhead to prevent 1 turn marine attacks.
[20:14] *notyoueither* our ports would have been way to far from your caps and hearttlands to be any threat as great as that
[20:15] *UnOrthOdOx* And now what are you being asked to do? Prevent the smallest civ (Vox doesn't count and we both know it) from it's only means of expanding. My compromise still prevented the marine attacks, and I said a # of turns could be arranged to ensure your setup on Lego.
[20:15] *notyoueither* panzer. i am not sure where the tile counts are
[20:15] *notyoueither* i will get it for you tonight
[20:15] *Panzer32* ok, thanks. Don't worry about sending me bob, I have the #
[20:16] *notyoueither* counting stormia is not hard. there is not that much of it
[20:16] *UnOrthOdOx* I MUST go to get things done before my chat.
[20:16] *UnOrthOdOx* Panzer, you can continue from here.
[20:16] *UnOrthOdOx* nye, a pleasure as always.
[20:16] *notyoueither* i have to move along soon too
[20:16] *notyoueither* UnO, agreed
[20:16] *UnOrthOdOx* I will try to remain as your ambassador, but am being pulled in many directions.
[20:16] *notyoueither* take care of the family
[20:17] *notyoueither* we understand, and would await your return
[20:17] *UnOrthOdOx* See you all in 45 min on undernet #civ3dem....
[20:17] *UnOrthOdOx* ?
[20:17] *UnOrthOdOx*
[20:17] *notyoueither*
[20:17] *Panzer32* probably not for me
[20:17] * UnOrthOdOx has left #GoW
[20:18] *Panzer32* just a minute... I'll count Estonia
[20:20] *notyoueither* Estonia must be some strange foreign land. I do not know of it.
[20:20] *notyoueither*
[20:21] *Panzer32* maybe Estormia??
[20:24] *notyoueither* Stormia?
[20:24] *notyoueither* i count 205 land
[20:25] *notyoueither* which is less than half of bob. far less. it might even be less than one-third
[20:25] *Panzer32* I count 202... so around ther
[20:25] *notyoueither* i think i may have hit one or two extra
[20:28] *Panzer32* ok, I can see your point in comparing the two
[20:29] *notyoueither* how many on bob?
[20:29] *Trip* small but blood soaked lands
[20:29] *notyoueither* i think it is over 600
[20:29] *notyoueither* looking for aeson's numbers. damn, do we spam!
[20:29] *Panzer32* 685
[20:29] *notyoueither* thought so
[20:30] *Panzer32* yeah, it is large
[20:30] *notyoueither* and nd demands it as their birthright, or something
[20:30] *notyoueither* we cannot live with that
[20:30] *Panzer32* HOWEVER, I do not agree with your point that it will leave ND as the most powerfull
[20:31] *notyoueither* if anything, we were going to come back to the next chat demanding more
[20:31] *notyoueither* and we know where that would lead.
[20:31] *Panzer32* well that won't do much good will it
[20:31] *notyoueither* well, i can see other pov's pw
[20:31] *notyoueither* but, they get land now, close to their cap.
[20:31] *notyoueither* we get it much later
[20:31] *notyoueither* do the math
[20:33] *Panzer32* which land are you reffering to you getting? Legoland?
[20:34] *notyoueither* yes
[20:36] *Panzer32* and by this move that you are taking now, you wich to obtain all of Roleplay, some of Roleplay, or the strategic part of Roleplay?
[20:37] *Panzer32* *wish
[20:37] *notyoueither* the parts imortant to us.
[20:37] *notyoueither* beyond that, it is murky
[20:38] * Aggiegow has joined #gow
[20:39] *notyoueither* allo
[20:39] *Aggiegow* hello nye, long time no see
[20:39] *Panzer32* you wish the cities I am assuming? Unorthodox's proposal is unnaceptable to you?
[20:39] * Panzer32 sets mode: +o Aggiegow
[20:40] *notyoueither* very long time, Aggie. I hope you are well.
[20:40] *notyoueither* Panzer, yes. Seeing ND past the 300 tile mark is clearly unacceptable to GS.
[20:41] *Aggiegow* i am indeed, just enjoying playing with other people than ai. Much more entertaining
[20:41] *notyoueither* ... while we remain so much smaller
[20:42] *Aggiegow* indeed a valid concern
[20:42] *Panzer32* they would only be approx 37 tiles over that... and with more mountains than the rest of us
[20:43] *notyoueither* they would be one third larger than us, and we are very suspicious of their long term agenda
[20:44] * Aeson has joined #GoW
[20:44] *notyoueither* we had no quarrel with them, but they seem to with us.
[20:44] *notyoueither* allo, Aeson
[20:44] *Aeson* hello
[20:44] * Trip sets mode: +o Aeson
[20:45] *Panzer32* I do not see them having a quarrel with you. I see them as wanting territory, as any civ player would
[20:45] *notyoueither* agreed. and they do not want to see us get it.
[20:45] *notyoueither* that is the point
[20:45] *Panzer32* and you do not want to see them get it
[20:46] *notyoueither* not now
[20:46] *notyoueither* we didn't mind before, but we have examined the ramifications of their policies.
[20:46] *notyoueither* they would not even accept us getting 30 or 50 tiles of mountain, desert and plains
[20:47] *Panzer32* I do not believe it is the territory that they do not want you to have as much as it is the ability to invade
[20:47] *notyoueither* far, far from anyting important for them, but very close to things important to us
[20:48] *notyoueither* yes, ability to invade
[20:48] *notyoueither* note we did not ask for land in the north
[20:48] *notyoueither* only land away long way away from GoW and ND caps
[20:49] *Panzer32* brb
[20:50] *notyoueither* ok. i have to go right away, anyway
[20:50] *notyoueither* Aggie, it is nice to see you. Will you be around more?
[20:50] *Aggiegow* yes i will
[20:50] *notyoueither* cool, and too bad for the enemies of GoW.
[20:51] *Aggiegow* i am techincally the commander of our armies
[20:51] *notyoueither* 
[20:51] *notyoueither* that gives pause
[20:51] *Aggiegow* hopefully we can work together for our common good
[20:51] *notyoueither* i hope so.
[20:52] *Panzer32* back
[20:52] *notyoueither* ok. is there anything else, i have some other things to tend to.
[20:53] *Panzer32* One more thing I do not understand: you and RP have essentially gifted Santiago to ND
[20:53] *notyoueither* that is possible.
[20:53] *Panzer32* how are you going to achieve anything if they just take YOUR cities?
[20:53] *notyoueither* MZ said earlier that he thought they would bypass it
[20:54] *notyoueither* or might
[20:55] *Panzer32* ok, but I am under the impression that ND will capitalize on taking an undefended city
[20:56] *Panzer32* I have one more thing before we go
[20:56] *notyoueither* if they do, they do.
[20:56] *notyoueither* ok
[20:57] *Panzer32* IF ND were to somehow, miraculously, agree with you having the three cities you wanted, would you accept and settle for them?
[20:58] *notyoueither* not sure. i would have to talk to the team about that.
[20:58] *notyoueither* i doubt it, though. nd has caused massive concern over here
[20:59] *Aggiegow* what could reassure you about nd
[20:59] *notyoueither* them stopping
[20:59] *Panzer32* ok. But I can only do miracles if I am sure. ND will not accept anything besides a certainly answer, and I'm not even sure I can get them to do that. |
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notyoueither
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of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:26
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finale.
quote:
[21:00] *notyoueither* we undestand, panzer. it is a little like august, 1914
[21:00] *notyoueither* the pieces are in motion
[21:00] *Trip* poor Belgium :P
[21:00] *notyoueither* a few have choices
[21:00] *Panzer32* by the way... just counting tiles for a minute here...
[21:00] *notyoueither* ok
[21:01] *Panzer32* you wanted NM, Barc, and Val?
[21:01] *notyoueither* one moment
[21:02] *notyoueither* i think it went as far south as valencia
[21:02] *notyoueither* there is ivory there.
[21:04] *Panzer32* ok. This would result in ND being downsized quite a portion (41 tiles)
[21:04] *Panzer32* GoW might have to compromise a bit by letting ND have some of its tiles
[21:04] *Aeson* If it helps, there are 1204 land/coast tiles on Bob/Stormia
[21:05] *Aeson* 320 of them on Stormia
[21:05] *notyoueither* thanks aeson
[21:05] *notyoueither* i was looking for those numbers
[21:05] *Panzer32* thanks; I have the land counts
[21:05] *notyoueither* wow. a lot of coast on stormia. cause there is only ~200-205 land
[21:06] *Panzer32* btw, whenever I talk about tiles I mean land tiles
[21:06] * Aeson nods
[21:06] *notyoueither* understood, pw
[21:06] *notyoueither* sorry, panzer32
[21:06] *notyoueither* where i got pw from, i am not sure
[21:07] *Panzer32* now I can try a last ditch attempt at an agreement with ND about you getting those citis
[21:08] *Panzer32* I think it would require you, though, to have little military there.
[21:08] * MasterZen has joined #GoW
[21:08] * Panzer32 sets mode: +o MasterZen
[21:08] *Panzer32* hey MZ
[21:08] *notyoueither* well, good luck.
[21:09] *MasterZen* my my, what a surpring group of visitors
[21:09] *MasterZen* have I missed something?
[21:09] *Aggiegow* maybe and agreement of 300 tiles each with a 300tile dmz.just an idea
[21:09] *notyoueither* as i have said, that would still see us standing by while nd grew a great amount.
[21:09] *notyoueither* mz. could you do me a favour?
[21:10] *Panzer32* MZ, I am going to try to negotiate with ND something that allows GS to obtain the cities they want
[21:10] *MasterZen* kill RP? sure.
[21:10] *notyoueither* heh
[21:10] *MasterZen* ok
[21:10] *MasterZen* what does GS want?
[21:10] *notyoueither* i do not have a log of our chat early this afternoon
[21:10] *notyoueither* could you email it to me?
[21:10] *notyoueither* my work computer did not log
[21:11] * notyoueither is not supposed to chat from work
[21:11] *MasterZen* sure no problem
[21:11] *notyoueither* thank you
[21:11] *MasterZen* so, um, what does GS want?
[21:11] *notyoueither* in fact, poly is the only chat server i can connect to
[21:11] *notyoueither* success, MZ, just as GoW seeks
[21:12] *notyoueither* hopefully, together
[21:12] *Panzer32* NM, Barc, and Val
[21:12] * Aeson dreams of Valencia oranges...
[21:12] *Aeson* among other things
[21:13] *notyoueither* Panzer, there is still the problem of ND's attitude to this point in the game
[21:13] *notyoueither* how are we too expect it will change?
[21:13] *Panzer32* what? To win??
[21:13] *MasterZen* more specific nye,
[21:13] *notyoueither* to fight like lions to keep bob to thermselves
[21:13] *MasterZen* what do you want out of the whole RP war
[21:13] *notyoueither* how do we know they would respect the 3 cities?
[21:13] *MasterZen* well, gifting cities is not fighting like lions, more like fighting like pansies
[21:14] *MasterZen* ND won't want to fight GS if we don't jump in too. And we won't.
[21:14] *notyoueither* how do we know that they will not just settle into their 300+ tiles and ignore lego?
[21:14] *MasterZen* because whoever sets down loses. Simple as that. You two teams have a huge "builder" lead that we don't.
[21:14] *notyoueither* it is hard for us to see being assured by anything short of them stopping
[21:15] *Panzer32* Gathering Storm asks what is impossible to give
[21:15] *MasterZen* all I as is simple: HOW MANY CITIES.
[21:15] *notyoueither* MZ, 300 tiles is 150% of the size of Stormia
[21:15] *notyoueither* and near their cap
[21:15] *Panzer32* nice answer
[21:16] *MasterZen* I'm still waiting for an answer...
[21:17] *notyoueither* it may not be that we need more cities, beyond what Spain has welcomed us too.
[21:17] *Aeson* might be easier on us all if GoW realizes nye can't make a definitive answer at this point
[21:17] *MasterZen* well let me also say something.
[21:17] *Aeson* it hasn't been decided among us
[21:17] *Panzer32* I do realize that
[21:17] *MasterZen* If GoW pushes in
[21:17] *Aggiegow* we are just exploring possibilities
[21:17] *MasterZen* and RP keeps gifting cities...
[21:17] *notyoueither* It may be that we are alarmed by the attitude of a civ that wants us to help carve up a third civ, and get nothing from it for ourselves
[21:17] *MasterZen* 4can you please listen to me for a sec...
[21:18] *notyoueither* yes, mz
[21:18] *MasterZen* I assume that RP will gift you whatever cities gets in our way and they can't defend..right?
[21:18] *notyoueither* not clear.
[21:18] *MasterZen* well, let's just say they do...
[21:18] *notyoueither* the possibility exists
[21:18] *MasterZen* I'm sure they will ask for them back, if they end up gifting a bunch... or at least most of them back.
[21:19] *MasterZen* I mean, seriously, they would not be doing this without some hope of them living in the end.
[21:19] *notyoueither* true
[21:19] *MasterZen* so
[21:19] *notyoueither* they must have hope, or they would do a lux.
[21:19] *MasterZen* whatever agreeement you two might have on handing back cities...
[21:19] *MasterZen* you realize that any agreement is moot when a civ is dead.
[21:19] *notyoueither* true
[21:19] *MasterZen* see what I'm getting at?
[21:19] *notyoueither* yes
[21:20] *MasterZen* all I ask is this:
[21:20] *notyoueither* we will consider that
[21:20] *MasterZen* I told you this morning, we would continue our war against RP
[21:20] *notyoueither* yes, you did
[21:20] *MasterZen* we will, and much more virulently now. Frankly this little stunt they pulled has pissed of more than one of us.
[21:20] *notyoueither* understood
[21:20] *MasterZen* and not against you. I'd have expected any team to accept what they offered, so I don't blame you.
[21:21] *MasterZen* we would have done it too of course :P
[21:21] *notyoueither* heh
[21:21] *MasterZen* we have a NAP between us. We will respect it if you do likewise.
[21:21] *notyoueither* we will respect the nap. we will not attack your units, or cross your cultural borders
[21:21] *MasterZen* and we will not bother the cities they gift to you. We are only interested in kicking RP's ass, now more than ever.
[21:22] *notyoueither* if you catch a city, it is yours
[21:22] *MasterZen* obviously
[21:22] *MasterZen* we're not in the gifting mood.
[21:22] *notyoueither* understood
[21:23] *MasterZen* now about ND
[21:24] *MasterZen* I'm sure they're of the same mindset as us...
[21:24] *MasterZen* but we cannot guarantee anything. We are simply allies in the war against RP, nothing else. If they choose a different course of action, so be it. We can't speak for them. Everything here is simply GoW-GS related.
[21:25] *notyoueither* understood
[21:25] *MasterZen* now one more thing...
[21:25] *notyoueither* we do not hole their attitudes against GoW.
[21:26] *MasterZen* seriously, you want RP in this game or not?
[21:26] *notyoueither* they have welcomed us to Bob. They have granted things we deem we need. We will consider their actions well.
[21:27] *MasterZen* they didn't do it because they're nice. They did it to save their ass.
[21:27] *Panzer32* they do so out of desparation
[21:27] *notyoueither* as i mentioned to UnO, earlier
[21:27] *notyoueither* actually, I asked.
[21:27] *notyoueither* what if RP could be directed against Lego?
[21:28] *Panzer32* do you remember the Brotherhood of Bob?? Roleplay was in that too you know
[21:28] *notyoueither* has that possibility been explored?
[21:28] *MasterZen* RP? ha! those double-dealers would sell their soul to the devil...
[21:28] *MasterZen* as soon as we sent troops to Lego they'd backstab us..
[21:29] *MasterZen* don't you understand this whole was to reduce that uncertainty?
[21:29] *notyoueither* i guess.
[21:29] *MasterZen* *whole war
[21:29] *notyoueither* and now you see our conundrum
[21:29] *notyoueither* help a civ hostile to our expansion, or help a civ who has welcomed us?
[21:29] *MasterZen* NOONE trusts RP. We just did what any team whould have done if they were in our place. In other words, we're doing your dirty work indirectly by killing those backstabbing midgets.
[21:30] *notyoueither* we understand your views.
[21:30] *MasterZen* we would NEVER agree to an invasion of Lego if RP would still exist. NEVER.
[21:30] *notyoueither* well. we will have to consider that well
[21:30] *MasterZen* for purely security reasons. And now more than ever. If they survive, they'll ask for revenge. And they'll ask ANYONE.
[21:31] *notyoueither* i see. we had maybe not considered that fully.
[21:31] *MasterZen* What also puts me a little off is that you didn't consult us at all about this. We informed you about everything in our little war. We trusted you and frankly I don't see how it is mutual.
[21:31] *notyoueither* this is all happening very fast, even if the turns are going slowly
[21:32] *MasterZen* I am more surprised that we hadn't finished any deals, we were discussing. We were trying to convince ND to perhaps yield a little on their demands and perhaps accommodate a solution satisfactory to your team. And now we see 2 GS cities on Bob with no warning. Tell, me , how do you expect we feel?
[21:32] *notyoueither* mz. you trusted us after an nap which saw you open to be able to attack rp. and then in chat, we were to gain nothing from the war, but we were welcome to be a tool.
[21:33] *MasterZen* We never said nothing. Were we not going to have a chat this week?
[21:33] *notyoueither* yes, but we saw nd's attitude
[21:33] *notyoueither* and knew it from ages past
[21:34] *MasterZen* yeah, but didn't you see ours? we were far more willing than they were.
[21:34] *notyoueither* to be honest, many on GS were insulted by the invitation to help kill a civ, but to stay on our nice little camp of an island.
[21:34] *notyoueither* yes, mz. we are discussing the future with you, not with nd
[21:34] *Aggiegow* allegations get us nowhere. Lets see what we can do nowto fix this sitiuation. there MUST be a way
[21:34] *MasterZen* we have "leverage" with ND
[21:35] *notyoueither* agreed, Aggie. just informing of the views of many of the people of GS
[21:35] *Panzer32* On that note.. I would like to say something
[21:35] *MasterZen* I'm not accusing anybody. If anyone is to blame is RP. GS took an opportunity that anyone would have. I do not blame them for it.
[21:35] *notyoueither* o ahead, panzer
[21:36] *Panzer32* ok. We have not discussed all options with ND.
[21:36] *Panzer32* I think that having a 3 way chat was a bad idea, as it brought your conflict to the forefront and we weren't able to accomplish anything
[21:37] *notyoueither* possibly
[21:37] *notyoueither* brb
[21:37] *Panzer32* I am prepared to appeal to ND to try and get an agreement that we were originally talking about, ie GS getting New Madrid, Barcelona, and Valencia
[21:38] *MasterZen* me too
[21:38] *Panzer32* Anything past this deal, I am afraid, will be next to impossible to get from ND.
[21:38] *Aeson* We got that impression too
[21:39] *Aeson* and realize that NM, B, and V are considered by some in GS to be a very lowball offer to begin with
[21:39] *MasterZen* now, I assume that RP offered you an even juicier deal... however, think about it if the existence of a team like RP is beneficial to GS in the long run... first chance they can get they'll sell their soul to Lego instead.
[21:39] *MasterZen* Aeson: we ask for no intervention at all.
[21:39] *MasterZen* you're getting them for free.
[21:39] *notyoueither* we will consider your requests
[21:40] *Panzer32* The problem is, that GS is unsure of what it can compromise on. You know what you idealy want, which is for ND to be crushed. Unfortunatly, this is impossible, as is the idea of ND stopping.
[21:40] *MasterZen* I think it's hard for GS to know just what type of team RP is. If we're doing this is beacuse we don't trust them AT ALL.
[21:40] *MasterZen* nye, look at it this way:
[21:40] *Panzer32* yes, I imagine they would be for free
[21:40] *MasterZen* don't you think out of the possible 3 combinations of alliances in Bob, ND-GoW looks to be the most unreasonable. Have you asked yourself why?
[21:40] *Panzer32* Therefore, It is hard for me to interceed in any way with ND.
[21:40] *Panzer32* I'm done for now
[21:41] *notyoueither* ok
[21:41] *MasterZen* I mean, splitting the continent, etc., the fear of either of us backstabbing each other... etc
[21:41] *MasterZen* so, do you know why two teams like us allied?
[21:41] *notyoueither* we understand your hatred for rp, mz
[21:41] *MasterZen* because the only thing we share is distrust over RP.
[21:41] *MasterZen* neither of us feels safe with them existing.
[21:41] *notyoueither* our problem is with nd growing fat and being zenophobes
[21:42] *MasterZen* and it would be folly for GS to think that RP is going to cozy up to you in the long run. Trust me.
[21:42] *MasterZen* I'm a Zenophobe :P
[21:42] *notyoueither* hehe
[21:42] *Panzer32* its Xenophobe... Zenophobe is a play on MZ's name
[21:43] *notyoueither* but we did not blame gow for the position re gs cities on bob
[21:43] *MasterZen* but I say it so much it's probably catching
[21:43] *notyoueither* heh, thanks panzer
[21:43] *notyoueither* at any rate. i must go.
[21:44] *MasterZen* look, nye, it's hard to imagine ND doing anything in the future that differs significantly from GoW's foreign policy.
[21:44] *MasterZen* unless it comes to a full backstab from them. Which is also likely
[21:44] *notyoueither* we will consider that, mz
[21:44] *MasterZen* in other words, what I'm saying is we have leverage with them. If you want to get a deal done with them, consider us first and we can talk to them.
[21:44] *MasterZen* and if you want a deal done with Bob, we are all ears.
[21:45] *Panzer32* What MZ is fact, dudes
[21:45] *MasterZen* we just want to slaughter RP like the pigs they are.
[21:45] *notyoueither* we understand
[21:45] *notyoueither* i really have to go
[21:45] *MasterZen* ok
[21:45] *Aggiegow* bye
[21:45] *MasterZen* I have just one last thing to say but I'll catch you later tonight
[21:46] *notyoueither* ok
[21:46] *Panzer32* ok, I guess I should go too
[21:46] *MasterZen* cya guys
[21:46] *notyoueither* by
[21:46] *notyoueither* mz, you had one last thing to say?
[21:47] *MasterZen* it might take a while though...
[21:47] *MasterZen* that's why I said I'll catch you later tonight
[21:47] *notyoueither* oh. ok
[21:47] *notyoueither* bye
Session Close: Mon Jul 21 21:47:35 2003 |
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notyoueither
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of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:26
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Chat with GoW.
quote:
Session Start: Tue Jul 22 22:56:48 2003
Session Ident: MasterZen
[22:56] Session Ident: MasterZen (Master@dup-200-66-232-2.prodigy.net.mx)
[22:56] *MasterZen* yo, have a moment?
[22:56] *notyoueit* hi. in a sec
[22:57] *MasterZen* sure
[22:59] *notyoueit* go ahead, mz
[22:59] *notyoueit* i am sorry i missed panzer
[22:59] *notyoueit* please give him my apologiers
[23:00] *MasterZen* ah don't worry
[23:00] *MasterZen* he's an early sleeper, unlike us vampires :P
[23:00] *notyoueit* yes, but he said something in private window that i missed. :/
[23:00] *MasterZen* ah, well the issue is quite simple
[23:00] *notyoueit* i was zoomed into the isdg chat
[23:01] *MasterZen* it's regarding Bilbao
[23:01] *notyoueit* ok
[23:01] *MasterZen* we would like GS's permission to deploy our Rider force in the mountain 4 of Bilbao not this but the next turn. The stack would remain for that turn only. The stack will not attack Bilbao in any way.
[23:02] *notyoueit* hmmm
[23:02] *notyoueit* 4 of bilbao?
[23:02] *MasterZen* we are respecting the sovereignty of Bilbao but would consider it a huge detriment to our war effort should this request be denied.
[23:03] *MasterZen* yes, 4
[23:03] *MasterZen* for one turn only, 10 AD.
[23:04] *notyoueit* and where from there? through to the other side?
[23:04] *MasterZen* all we can say is that after 10 AD the stack will no longer be within the cultural border of Bilbao
[23:05] *notyoueit* that would mean you move in this turn for you?
[23:05] *notyoueit* so they are there for our 10ad?
[23:06] *MasterZen* no, not this turn, this is 10 BC, we'd assemble our forces this turn, and move in the next
[23:06] *notyoueit* oh, so we have time to consider this
[23:06] *MasterZen* rather, you'd see them in your 30 AD turn i guess..
[23:06] *notyoueit* ok. understood
[23:07] *MasterZen* we have the save right now, it is not in position this turn
[23:07] *MasterZen* we'd move it next turn 10 AD, you'd see the stack 30 AD and we'd move it out in our 30 AD
[23:07] *notyoueit* well, you have rifers adjacent this turn, that is why i ask
[23:07] *MasterZen* correct but we're bringing more in. Where our riders are right now is where we'd assembe and move south
[23:08] *notyoueit* ok. i will take this back and see if the rest agree.
[23:08] *MasterZen* good.
[23:08] *notyoueit* is there anything else?
[23:08] *MasterZen* nope
[23:08] *MasterZen* personally I don't see how this is any inconvenience...
[23:09] *MasterZen* but I leave it to your team to decide
[23:11] *notyoueit* ok
[23:12] *MasterZen* cool
Session Close: Wed Jul 23 00:00:00 2003 |
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notyoueither
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of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:26
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Received from UnO. 9:03 this morning, my time.
quote:
News from GoW
Greetings zeit, nye,
Im afraid that I have some unfortunate news. My home computer is suffering from some malady or another, and it has cost me all internet access for some time. I will be unable to chat until such things are fixed, however.
In the meantime please talk to Master Zen or Panzer32 if you need to communicate through chat.
I wanted to express that our initial reaction was mostly a knee-jerk due to several things. However, the presence of the signed NAP has sure eased any tensions that existed. I am sure you understand how much worse the situation appeared without such a contract signed.
It is our understanding that ND has declared war and taken Santiago despite our resistance to such an idea. While we can understand how and why they came to that decision, our intention is to remain neutral during whatever future conflicts arise between ND and GS. It is really our only path as we have NAP's both ways.
This being said, we wish to somehow come to an arrangement that would be mutually beneficial to both our teams. I don't see that our respective positions need to hamper such a thing from comming to pass at present.
I have several ideas, and am polling our forum at present to get a feel on how the team will react. That being said, I must ask, is GS devoted to keeping RP in the game? What are your goals in this conflict? Perhaps there is a solution to be had by concluding our current contract as swiftly as possible, allowing us to work on a different one, perhaps?
Respectfully,
UnOrthOdOx |
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notyoueither
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of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:26
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This chat occured last night in the ISDG channel immediately after I informed MZ about our decision re access to territory and that Toledo was in our hands. When I was done, I signed off.
Arnelos emailed me the log.
quote:
Chat in the Apolyton ISDG main chanel (Thursday, July 24th):
- NYE signed off... *immediately* afterward...
MasterZen> Don't gift more cities to GS!!!
MasterZen> For the love of god!!!
Arnelos>
Arnelos> If you guys go away, we won't have a reason to gift any more cities to GS
MasterZen> it's not the gifting... it to WHOM!
MasterZen> give them to Lego or to Vox (or tu us... :P)
MasterZen> you are handing GS the game in a silver platter...
Arnelos> yes, and my point is that if you go away, we won't need to .... simple to me
Arnelos> and if you'd like to prevent us from doing so, you can always leave
MasterZen> ok, then keep doing it, and survive the next couple of months having to suffer from GS-member's even igher egos and cockiness...
Togas> better than GoW
Arnelos> my thoughts exactly
MasterZen> ha, we're not going to win... be serious
MasterZen> it's going to be Lego vs GS
Arnelos> and if it is?
Arnelos> and what about ND?
MasterZen> if GS gets a major presence on Bob, they'll win...
Togas> I'm surprised this never occured to any of you before you attacked us.
MasterZen> ND can't win the game either, neither of us, think about it, will GS stand for a 1-nation Bob?
MasterZen> Togas: we're playing for FUN :P
Togas> OHhhh
Togas> and we're not?
Arnelos> MZ - you were the one who attacked US All I'm telling you is that should you decide to not attack and just go away, we'll no longer have any incentive to be gifting cities to GS
MasterZen> plus, YOU did have a chance of winning with half the continent...
Togas> SURE we did
Togas> all those luxuries are a bullseye painted on our chest.
Togas> if it wasn't ND invading, it would have been GS.
MasterZen> We would have never allowed that... Spain is OURS :P
MasterZen> we would have fought GS then backstabbed you :P (LoL)
MasterZen> no but seriously, GoW will respect gifted cities... hopefully you will give Lego next time... :P
Togas> We CANNOT give to Lego, didn't you listen last time?
MasterZen> we are *****ing only because we don't want GS to win!!!
Togas> Lego REFUSED to take our cities
Togas> if you don't want GS to win, do something about it.
MasterZen> oh, we will...
Togas> sure you will
MasterZen> well maybe Lego has changed their mind... 
Togas> well maybe they ought to TELL US THAT.
Togas> maybe GoW doesn't enjoy how the tables are turning. What I don't enjoy is how GoW won't even consider making an offer to us to end this war before it begins. You mock us and then you cry to us when we do the logical thing that you SHOULD have considered we'd do.
MasterZen> anyway, back to what I was saying, its not that I'm *****ing over the logical thing to do, it's that RP is practically deciding the winner of the PTWDG by what it's doing.
Arnelos> no... GoW did that
Arnelos> you guys should have known
MasterZen> we honestly had no idea you would do that
MasterZen> we though you were much stronger
Togas> you didn't?
Togas> what did you think we'd do??
MasterZen> fight it out
MasterZen> at least at first
Togas> against BOTH of you?
MasterZen> yep
Togas> we'd need 2x the army we have
MasterZen> the powergraph shows you stronger. The F3 screen says we're equal
Arnelos> equal to each of you ALONE, yes
MasterZen> defenders are underrated in the F3 screen, you could have had a plethora of pikes and they'be counted less than our Riders
Togas> MZ, are you high? You guys intentionally didn't give us Civ, have your UU, and have double the forces as us
Togas> *chiv
MasterZen> Togas: not a few turns back we were weak to you. Imagine our surprise when we mass-upgraded our first wave and realized we were not stronger than you.
Togas> booo hooo
Togas> are you seriously saying that GoW thought they were fighting an enemy who was stronger?
BigFree> MZ: The power graph in Civ 3 only gives about 10% to units; Trip confirmed this, it gives mostly to cities and population.
Arnelos> MZ... as I said, if GS winning the game means THAT much to you, withdraw.
MasterZen> oh well... let's see what happens...
Togas> You guys have no excuses.
Togas> we gave you every chance and BEGGED you to reconsider
MasterZen> this turn will probably be the most important in the entire demogame...
BigFree> why is that
MasterZen> you'll see...
BigFree> ok
Arnelos> true... you guys already have the save
Arnelos> well, you and ND
MasterZen> ND has it
Arnelos> if it's what I've been saying was going to happen for at least a month now, I'll laugh
MasterZen> what?
Arnelos> nothing
MasterZen> say it!! :P
Arnelos> I'll tell you after it happens
MasterZen> if it happens...
Arnelos> precisely
BigFree> GoW backstabbing ND! :maybe:
BigFree> Doh, was that a sevret?
Arnelos> well, we've been HOPING for that
MasterZen> that ain't gonna happen, not until RP is gone at least...
MasterZen> but keep your hopes up... perhaps they'll backstab us :
MasterZen> (not likely either as we are actually stronger than they are...)
Togas> MZ, so long as your team has the attitude that RP must be destroyed, this game is over.
Arnelos> bingo
Togas> you can't even consider negotiations with us.
MasterZen> knowing you guys, if we let you live, you'll ally with GS to take us out. That's the reason why.
Togas> is it?
MasterZen> yep.
Togas> why this bullshit "knowing you guys?" What did we ever do to you? Sign a MPP with you? Ask you to ally with us?
MasterZen> plus, you might convince me, you won't convince the rest, and you sure as hell won't convince ND.
Togas> what did you do? Oh, yeah, attack us.
MasterZen> you keep forgetting I'm the dove...
Arnelos> don't play good cop, we know better ;p
Togas> sure you are
Togas> you're Mr Evil Plan
MasterZen> Evil Plans can have different targets...
MasterZen> If I had been on GoW from the start perhaps things would have been different.
Togas> those are just lame excuses.
Arnelos> heh... that's what Unortho said
MasterZen> then again perhaps if I had we'd hate each other by now...
Arnelos> (more or less)
MasterZen> so I guess it all worked out for the best
BigFree> LOL
BigFree> Ok, enough is enough
BigFree> just lets play the game |
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notyoueither
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of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:26
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Received from GhengisFarb.
quote:
Disappointed
GS:
It is with great concern that I write to you today. The Glory of War considers the Gathering Storm a kindred spirit in team beliefs but your actions of late have undermined that belief.
quote:
We regret that we must deny permission for any forces to cross our territory, which has recently been enlarged to include Toledo. We are at war with neither RP nor GoW. We do not wish to advantage either side through access to that land.
Our intentions re RP are not fully concrete as of yet. We are inclined to look favourably on a civ who has welcomed us to Bob. As of this point, our goals in the conflict would be to finish what other nations start.
Respectfully
nye
cc GhengisFarb, Master Zen, UnOrthOdOx
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Your team has purposely accepted Roleplay cities for THE SOLE PURPOSE of preventing our capture of them. This violates the spirit and intent and virtually violates the specific wording of the following document:
quote:
This contract is a declaration of a Non Aggression Pact between Gathering Storm and Glory of War. Neither team will engage in hostile activity against the other team for the duration of the contract.
The contract becomes effective on turn 126, 50 BC and will remain in effect for a duration of 30 turns, cancelling after turn 156, 400 AD.
The contract is considered Top Secret and will be treated as such by both teams and by their members. No memeber of either team is allowed to discuss the existence, or details, of the contract with anyone who is not a member of either Gathering Storm or Glory of War.
Signed:
Glory of War Team
Ratified:
Gathering Storm |
By denying us the right to continue on our campaign you ARE WAGING WAR AGAINST US. Both our teams know this is being done to prevent the Glory of War from capturing the cities of the enemy. We accepted Bibao as your team was merely taking an opportunistic moment but any more than that is going beyond opportunistic and becoming willful agressiveness against a NAP partner.
If you accept Toledo or any other city beyond Bilbao it may be viewed as an act of war and violation of the before ratified NAP. We do not wish war with GS, we both need to be strong for the upcoming wars but we will defend our sovereign rights to exist and fight our enemies. Sovereign rights you are attempting to deny us.
If we had accepted Eliopolis as a gift from Vox before you took it, how would you have felt?
GhengisFarb, Ambassador of GoW. |
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notyoueither
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of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:26
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Sent to GoW
quote:
The Situation
In reply to the message from GhengisFarb, entitled 'Disappointed'
Greetings, Glorious Warriors,
We of Gathering Storm have no desire to fight your great nation, but we must maintain our sovereignty. One key aspect of sovereignty is the power to enter into mutually beneficial agreements with other nations, and your demands for veto power over our agreements with Spain are a violation of our sovereignty.
The cities we obtained from Spain are not merely useless baggage with no value other than getting in your way. They are already able to contribute to our nation, and can someday contribute far more with courthouses and the proper tile improvements in place. Corruption in those cities is certainly a problem, but by no means an insurmountable one. Further, with a territory expansion, Toledo can provide us with a source of silks within our own territory.
We recognize that our obtaining those cities through diplomatic means before you could annex them militarily has caused you a certain amount of inconvenience. But the opportunity we were presented with to obtain land diplomatically instead of having to fight for it was too good to pass up. Surely you can recognize that a non-aggression pact is not a “won’t take advantage of any opportunity that the other would find inconvenient” pact. Further, GoW did not shed a single drop of blood in an effort to take those cities (indeed, you are not even at war with RP in-game yet), so it is not as if we are depriving you of prizes of an ongoing battle.
All we are really guilty of is that our diplomats moved faster than your Riders in obtaining land that both of us regard as desirable in spite of its high corruption levels. We have not taken or threatened anything that belongs to you. We have not taken or threatened anything you had any legitimate claim on beyond the mere fact that you wanted to take it in the near future.
In closing, we would like to make it clear once again that a non-aggression pact is not a right of passage agreement. Your moving through our cities to attack Roleplay is little different from if we moved through your lands to attack Neu Demogyptica from the north, a movement that surely would require more than a mere non-aggression pact to justify. Further, Gathering Storm has a long-standing policy of viewing unauthorized movement of foreign military forces into our territory as an act of aggression against us, as the fate of Mad King Donegeal’s expedition into our lands can surely attest. Our policy of not allowing foreign soldiers into our lands (especially while we are at war) is not merely something we made up on the spot to get in your way. We are willing to overlook your forces’ current presence in our territory, but must insist that they return the way they came.
Please let us know whether you intend to honor our non-aggression pact or not so we can make our plans accordingly.
Sincerely,
The People of Gathering Storm
cc GhengisFarb, Master Zen, UnOrthOdOx |
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12-07-2003 11:19
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