28-07-2003 18:46									#151
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Just received from UnO, via PM:

quote: Inchon Let it be known I am no longer your ambassador, and what I am about to say is not an official request in any way. I have, as a man, dealt honestly and openly with all of you during our negotiations. During a casual conversation in another game, it was mentioned in passing that you gifted Inchon to RP and received it back. We never saw this for the game passed us by in the 'acceptance' phase. This concerns me little, that is your perrogative. However: I ask as one man to another, each of you: Were there units in Inchon during this gifting? UnOrthOdOx

I don't want to tell him, but I also don't want to ignore him.

Anybody wanna help me compose a short, noncomittal response?

-Arrian

	29-07-2003 06:29									#152
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Received from GF.

quote: Re: The Situation Gathering Storm, There is no Non Agression Pact, you have already violated it by engaging in hostile activity against us. Your attempts to put words in our mouth is a testament to how well Roleplay is controlling you. No longer do you honor your agreements but attempt to disguise the breaking of them with flowering words. To take cities right before we attack them, not all at once mind you just cities we prepare to attack, and then demand our troops withdraw is HOSTILE ACTIVITY. Slowing down and detouring our troops is HOSTILE ACTIVITY, Giving Inchon to Roleplay to move vast numbers of troops to invade Bob is HOSTILE ACTIVITY. Landing large numbers of troops on Bob with your fleet is HOSTILE ACTIVITY. You have dishonored the NAP not once, but repeatedly, and left us with NO OTHER COURSE FOR SURVIVAL but to defend ourselves and the worthless paper you refuse to honor. GhengisFarb, Ambassador to GS.

	29-07-2003 06:51									#153
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Grabed Panzer for a quick chat to gauge the seriousness of GF's words. It sounds like war.

quote: Session Start: Mon Jul 28 19:35:52 2003 Session Ident: Panzer32 [19:35] *nye* hi [19:36] *Panzer32* hi there [19:36] *nye* we are wondering if gf is communicating gow's true position? [19:38] *Panzer32* he is our official ambassador [19:38] *Panzer32* therefore, yes, he is [19:39] *nye* There is no Non Agression Pact, you have already violated it by engaging in hostile activity against us. Your attempts to put words in our mouth is a testament to how well Roleplay is controlling you. No longer do you honor your agreements but attempt to disguise the breaking of them with flowering words. [19:39] *nye* so, you are breaking the nap? [19:39] *Panzer32* I believe that says that you have [19:40] *nye* well, that is why i am talking to you [19:40] *nye* how is our having got cities first violating any agreement between us? [19:40] *Panzer32* Lets say GoW knows the NAP is over [19:41] *nye* yes. i guess you do, if you say so. [19:41] *nye* an agreement only lasts until someone breaks it [19:41] *Panzer32* the NAP calls for no "hostile activity" between us [19:41] *Panzer32* we believe GS has been acting hostile towards us [19:41] *nye* what is hostile about our having obtained citiies through diplomacy? [19:42] *nye* you may colour it any way you wish, we are not the ones with stacks parked in your territory, making demands [19:42] *Panzer32* those cities were obviously gifted to stop us from taking them and/or to block us. The blocking thing is even more prevalent because you granted us no ROP [19:43] *nye* again, how is our gaining cities diplomatically hostile to gow? what if we landed and beat you to them with troops? [19:44] *nye* it all matters little. [19:44] *nye* if gow intends to attack, so be it [19:44] *Panzer32* the RoP issue was vital; we felt you were 'blocking' [19:44] *Panzer32* ok [19:44] *nye* ok. we have no rop [19:44] *Panzer32* correct [19:44] *nye* and we are serious that our land is not somnething for foreign tropps to drop in on anytime they feel like it [19:45] *nye* have we ever done that to gow? [19:46] *nye* at any rate. i suppose the die is cast [19:46] *nye* good luck [19:46] *nye* many will go to valhalla [19:47] *nye* it will be glorious [19:48] *Panzer32* bye for now! [19:48] *nye* bye Session Close: Mon Jul 28 19:49:08 2003

	29-07-2003 09:43									#154
	Support Apolyton

UnO approached me.

quote: Session Start: Mon Jul 28 21:21:15 2003 Session Ident: UnOrthOdOx [21:21] Session Ident: UnOrthOdOx (~unorthodo@ACC4B7C8.ipt.aol.com) [21:21] *UnOrthOdOx* Howdy. [21:21] *nye* hello. [21:21] *nye* can you give me a few minutes? just reporting for isdg turn [21:21] *UnOrthOdOx* No troubles. [21:22] *nye* brb [21:27] *nye* ok. i am here [21:27] *UnOrthOdOx* How are things? [21:28] *UnOrthOdOx* We doing good? haven't paid much attention [21:28] *nye* well, i am well. things between us seem to be heading towards war though [21:28] *nye* gf has sent several demands [21:28] *UnOrthOdOx* Oh, the other game. Well, Ill get to that. [21:29] *nye* oh, we isdg. we do ok. [21:29] *UnOrthOdOx* PTW game. [21:29] *nye* much to be seen though [21:29] *UnOrthOdOx* I want to make this very clear. [21:29] *UnOrthOdOx* I am not in any position, at all [21:29] *nye* understood [21:29] *UnOrthOdOx* I am now a member in name only, for I don't feel it right to quit [21:30] *nye* so, no responsibilities? [21:30] *UnOrthOdOx* None. [21:30] *UnOrthOdOx* I may continue my story, for fun. [21:30] *UnOrthOdOx* But that will be the extent of it [21:30] *nye* you do not have time? or you do not agree with something or somethings? [21:31] *UnOrthOdOx* I am considered a failure by my team. [21:31] *nye* oh. that sux. why? [21:32] *UnOrthOdOx* Hence, GF is now your ambassador. [21:32] *UnOrthOdOx* I only had one job, it should be apparant why, I think. [21:33] *nye* i see. so gow has written gs off, and our actions are your fault? [21:33] *UnOrthOdOx* I don't know if they have written you all together off yet. But, our lack of foreknowledge of your actions is my fault [21:34] *nye* harsh rules [21:34] *UnOrthOdOx* We are a harsh team. [21:34] *UnOrthOdOx* Many disagreed with my handling of you guys, frankly. [21:34] *UnOrthOdOx* I thought it was going fine, apparantly not, though. [21:34] *nye* i see [21:35] *UnOrthOdOx* There is a few things I wish to know before I stop caring. [21:35] *nye* you did nothing wronf, UnO, except for not realise what NDs sttitude would mean to us. [21:35] *nye* ok, go ahead. if i can answer, i will [21:36] *UnOrthOdOx* If I had been in that chat, however, I could have placated both sides, see? [21:36] *UnOrthOdOx* My fault [21:36] *nye* i doubt it. darekill came through plain and clear [21:36] *UnOrthOdOx* I already PMd you I know of the gifting. [21:37] *nye* is there anything other than that? [21:37] *UnOrthOdOx* Darekill...has a special touch needed. And is not the entire team no more than you or I. He also trusts me some for things dating back to the original SPDG embassy. [21:37] *nye* well, damn then [21:37] *UnOrthOdOx* He would have considered my proposition for the demil zone [21:37] *UnOrthOdOx* Did you gift that to warp troops to your capitol? [21:37] *nye* UnO, the demil zone would not have got it done for us [21:38] *nye* we were looking at ND and GoW spitting 6 or 700 tiles [21:38] *nye* while we have 200 [21:39] *nye* UnO, I cannot comment on Inchon. Those are the wishes of my team. [21:40] *UnOrthOdOx* And now you are here to claim all of bob it would seem, or at least all of RP. I know of at least one more city to be turned over to you after Madrid. [21:40] *UnOrthOdOx* Barcelona [21:40] *nye* possibly. [21:40] *nye* the situation with rp is ongoing [21:40] *UnOrthOdOx* Alright, no comment, I will then report what I have found to my team and let them draw conclusions. [21:41] *nye* what is it you have found? [21:41] *UnOrthOdOx* They know not of Inchon at present. It slipped from another team in another chat not involving this whole mess. [21:42] *nye* ahh. ok [21:43] *UnOrthOdOx* Well, I tried my best. [21:43] *nye* why does gf know about Inchon, then? [21:43] *UnOrthOdOx* You could have considered enlisting us against ND after the RP deal... [21:43] *UnOrthOdOx* He does? [21:43] *nye* yes, he does [21:43] *nye* There is no Non Agression Pact, you have already violated it by engaging in hostile activity against us. Your attempts to put words in our mouth is a testament to how well Roleplay is controlling you. No longer do you honor your agreements but attempt to disguise the breaking of them with flowering words. [21:43] *nye* To take cities right before we attack them, not all at once mind you just cities we prepare to attack, and then demand our troops withdraw is HOSTILE ACTIVITY. Slowing down and detouring our troops is HOSTILE ACTIVITY, Giving Inchon to Roleplay to move vast numbers of troops to invade Bob is HOSTILE ACTIVITY. Landing large numbers of troops on Bob with your fleet is HOSTILE ACTIVITY. You have dishonored the NAP not once, but repeatedly, and left us with NO OTHER COURSE FOR SURVIVAL but to defend ourselves and the worthless paper you refuse to honor. [21:43] *UnOrthOdOx* I don't know where he learned of it [21:44] *nye* UnO, we would be more than happy to remain at peace with GoW, and enlist you against current and future enemies [21:44] *UnOrthOdOx* Perhaps he learned of it through someone else as well. [21:44] *nye* we have gone out of our way to ignore provokation [21:44] *nye* hostile demands [21:45] *nye* stacks of riders parked above one of our cities [21:45] *nye* our patience wears thin [21:45] *UnOrthOdOx* You have delayed our GA, threatened our agreement with RP, and blocked our moves by accepting cities that we prepared to attack as well. [21:45] *nye* and to be honest, some of us would welcome war [21:45] *UnOrthOdOx* Agreement with ND that is. [21:45] *nye* we could have taken cities by force too, UnO [21:46] *nye* other opportunites presented themselves [21:46] *nye* so we did not have to [21:47] *UnOrthOdOx* Toledo and the NAP were the sticking points. [21:47] *UnOrthOdOx* ND currently thinks we are staying out of all this on purpose. [21:47] *nye* we already had toledo when we received gf's second to last threat [21:47] *UnOrthOdOx* You are essentially preventing us from fullfilling our contract. [21:47] *UnOrthOdOx* We didn't know you were taking it, though did [21:48] *UnOrthOdOx* Did we [21:48] *nye* that is unfortunate. we assumed you would reroute out of the jungle and head south to the west [21:49] *nye* i think when he sent it, nd already had the turn. i would have to check that though [21:49] *UnOrthOdOx* Well, as I say, the lack of communication is solely my fault. [21:50] *nye* i would not say that. that is too harsh. it would equally be my fault [21:50] *nye* and moreso darekill's and nd's [21:50] *UnOrthOdOx* You are not on my team. [21:50] *nye* we are on the same team, UnO. We are Poyzens [21:50] *nye* *Polyzens [21:51] *UnOrthOdOx* Anyway, I just wanted to clear the air. [21:51] *nye* there is the after this game [21:51] *UnOrthOdOx* Anyway, I am now a vast minority on my team in this game. [21:51] *nye* understood [21:52] *nye* it will be glorious [21:52] *UnOrthOdOx* It appears that at least for now the die is cast. It also appears I joined the wrong team as well. [21:52] *nye* wrong team? [21:53] *nye* finally, you will have battle, and we will have a worthy foe. [21:53] *UnOrthOdOx* You have no idea what I have been through this game. [21:53] *nye* unfortunate it had to be gow, but such is life [21:54] *nye* been through? [21:54] *nye* i do not have to log this [21:54] *UnOrthOdOx* After the game, I will let you in. [21:54] *nye* that would be good, UnO [21:55] *UnOrthOdOx* Trip will as well, probably. [21:55] *UnOrthOdOx* I am sure there are pages to be written on the GoW forums. [21:55] *nye* i suspect the same is true of all of the teams [21:56] *UnOrthOdOx* NO. Trip has already told me no one comes close to the....excitement...of the GoW. [21:56] *nye* ahh. i will look forward to the reading then [21:56] *nye* i agree, gs could bore a librarian [21:57] *UnOrthOdOx* I would suspect that of Lego too [21:57] *nye* possibly [21:58] *nye* but gs has had it's moments. and now we seem to be in another one of them [21:58] *UnOrthOdOx* Incidentally, we tried the same Voxodus with Lux...would have been far more effective than the Voxodus. [21:58] *UnOrthOdOx* Allot earlier... [21:58] *UnOrthOdOx* More competition for Lego. [21:58] *nye* ahhh. that would have been good, but alas [21:59] *UnOrthOdOx* Vox 'offered a better deal' than us....LOL [21:59] *nye* that is funny [22:00] *UnOrthOdOx* 2 galleys and settlers in exchange for 10 warriors, I believe our agreement was. [22:00] *UnOrthOdOx* We were hoping for a leader by killing the 10 warriors. [22:00] *nye* haha. that would have been good [22:01] *UnOrthOdOx* Ah what could have been. [22:01] *nye* yes [22:01] *UnOrthOdOx* Hey, My wife came up with a wonder whoring idea in one of our PBEM's [22:01] *UnOrthOdOx* If you ever want to use it... [22:01] *nye* what is it? [22:01] *UnOrthOdOx* Building the pyramids... [22:02] *UnOrthOdOx* Have someone gift you a city for one turn, gift it back for a payment [22:02] *UnOrthOdOx* They get a free pyramid (same continent. [22:02] *nye* really? [22:02] *UnOrthOdOx* Free granary, I mean [22:02] *nye* and you keep it? [22:03] *UnOrthOdOx* We are testing it now. [22:03] *UnOrthOdOx* It would seem you just have to pay the upkeep. [22:03] *nye* i am sure that there will be a rules discussion after the ptw dg is over [22:03] *UnOrthOdOx* Say, get 2 slaves for each granary... [22:03] *UnOrthOdOx* Yes...this gifting can be seen as an exploit. [22:03] *nye* rah rules for civ 2 mp. ? rules for civ 3 mp [22:04] *nye* we will all know more in a bit [22:04] *UnOrthOdOx* All MP has rules. I am a RTS vet. [22:04] *nye* we are learning a bunch from the isdg [22:04] *UnOrthOdOx* TONS of rules. [22:04] *UnOrthOdOx* Take Shogun... [22:04] *nye* k [22:04] *UnOrthOdOx* Perhaps the best RTS made. [22:05] *UnOrthOdOx* You can make the CHEAPEST units become the BEST units that never route. [22:05] *UnOrthOdOx* All games have a weekness and exploit when humans get involved. [22:06] *nye* cheapest = best? [22:06] *UnOrthOdOx* Yeah, Ashiguri: They were MEANT to be cheap, but run away easy. [22:06] *nye* but you can make them not run away? [22:07] *UnOrthOdOx* However, if you pay to pump their honor to 9, they will never run away, and are still cheaper than Yari Samurai (standard foot) [22:07] *nye* heh [22:07] *nye* bug [22:07] *UnOrthOdOx* Honor 9 does that for anyone. [22:07] *UnOrthOdOx* Any unit. [22:07] *nye* hmmm [22:08] *nye* well. i have to post a bit. can you give me a few minutes? [22:08] *UnOrthOdOx* It may have been addressed in the patch, but that does not discount other tactics that are pure cheese. [22:08] *UnOrthOdOx* Im off to bed, just had to get a few things in the air. [22:08] *nye* ok [22:09] *UnOrthOdOx* Basically, I wanted nothing to do with what is about to follow (barring some miracle) [22:09] *nye* understood [22:09] *UnOrthOdOx* This is the PTWDG then. [22:09] *nye* yes. it does not spill over [22:10] *UnOrthOdOx* Lego might just win by doing nothing all game. [22:10] *UnOrthOdOx* Sad really [22:10] *nye* that is now possible [22:10] *UnOrthOdOx* Hey, if you got all of bob, how close would you be to dom? [22:11] *nye* not there, quite [22:11] *UnOrthOdOx* Didn't think so [22:11] *nye* it would be close [22:11] *nye* we have looked at various conditions, but domination in this sorty of mp is expecting a lot [22:12] *UnOrthOdOx* Yes, it is. [22:12] *nye* it will most likely be 2050 score. or space ship [22:12] *UnOrthOdOx* Culture may still be withing Lego's reach. [22:12] *nye* space ship assumes that general war will not break out and reign [22:13] *nye* true, culture [22:13] *UnOrthOdOx* One city perhaps? [22:13] *nye* perhaps [22:13] *UnOrthOdOx* Let's see, Oracle is cheap and a culture mother... [22:13] *nye* yep [22:14] *UnOrthOdOx* One city can't be stopped either can it? [22:14] *UnOrthOdOx* unlike overall culture? [22:14] *UnOrthOdOx* Or does the game still check for over 1/2 (or whatever) [22:14] *nye* yeah, kill the city [22:15] *UnOrthOdOx* Well...perhaps a vote could deter that. [22:15] *nye* un? [22:15] *UnOrthOdOx* I know nothing would gall me more than a culture win. [22:15] *nye* heh [22:16] *UnOrthOdOx* Alright, Im off to bed. [22:16] *nye* krux would choke on that [22:16] No such nick/channel Session Close: Mon Jul 28 22:39:18 2003

	29-07-2003 23:11									#155
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Sent to UnO, GF, and MZ:

quote: CC: GhengisFarb, Master Zen Glory of War, The rantings of an insane man about broken treaties holds no water. The fact remains that GS has not acted against GoW. GoW is now demanding that GS honor not only it's agreements with GoW, but GoW's agreements to ND? This is completely unacceptable. GS cannot be held responsible for the agreements that GoW enters into, or GoW's (in)ability to honor those agreements. GS does not exist to facillitate GoW's military ambitions at the cost of GS' wellbeing, and neither does the NAP. The NAP is still in effect in GS' estimation. It becomes clear the NAP is not what GoW wishes, and that it will not keep GoW from further threatening GS cities. Both parties signed an agreement without fully understanding the limitations it would place on them in the very near future. GS has hoped that both teams could find a way to honor the NAP in light of these unforseen events, but realizes the difficulty of the situation GoW now finds itself in. GS wishes to help rectify this situation. To allow GoW to keep their honor intact, and prevent the spectacle of uninformed opinion that public debates become. GS offers to agree to a mutual cancellation of the NAP if GoW reciprocates. GS asks one condition, a single turn of respite from being attacked by GoW or having GoW units moved further into (or through) GS territory. GoW will receive the same guarantees, that GS will not attack GoW and will respect GoW's borders for the duration of the cease fire. This is an offer that GoW may retain it's honor, while still having full right to act against GS to fulfill contracts. The single turn cease fire item may be negotiated, or others added, but the offer is off the table if GoW were to attack GS or move further into (or through) GS territory before an agreement is reached. That is all, Gathering Storm

	27-08-2003 04:51									#156
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

From UnO:

quote: Greetings, http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...442#post2286442 Should GS wish to speak in the future, I will be at your disposal. This is out of respect for the members of GS, and will definately chaffe on my schedule until after October, with one week at the beginning of October completely out of the question as I oversee the starting of the Spook Alley. Beyond that, I shall remain at your disposal, though will not actively persue the beginning of talks. If GS wishes to speak, I will oblige, but I do not have time to actively persue something for the 'fun' of persuing it. Respectfully, UnOrthOdOx

	27-08-2003 17:39									#157
	Put an end to popups!

A reply:

quote: Dear UnOrthOdOx, I'm glad you can find the time to return to your ambassadorial duty and that we can once more talk under the guise of consuls. I have read your letter and your post at the board, and have informed my team of this initiative of yours. We both surely realize the difficulties in returning to any kind of formal talks between our nation (and I don't count trash-talking as being formal, ). If, however, members of my team will support this kind of movement, perhaps we could find a common ground to base talks on, but unfortunately for now I don't see how such thing is possible. Yours, Zeit.

	22-10-2003 08:27									#158
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Bumped for Theseus. It had not been used for over 30 days, so it does not show up without 'adjustments'.

	22-10-2003 08:58									#159
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Oops, thanks, shoulda thought of that.

	22-10-2003 09:00									#160
	Tired of ads?

Sent in the evening, 10/21:

MZ,

I have a question for you: Are you guys really Mercs?

MERCS??!!

If you are, name a price... A price for ceasing attacks on RP, and cooperating with us in dismantling ND. We may or may not be able to meet it... but we'd like to know.

I covenant here and now that we will not disclose this discussion, at this risk of forfeiture (i.e., if we, GS, disclose to the PTWDG world that this discussion has taken place, without your written approval, we will forfeit.).

Be aware, however, that we have discussed this communication with RP.

Further, in the reverse, disclosure of a confidential communication such as this will be taken most negatively.
_________________

Aaahhhhh, screw it, here's the plain language: Don't tell anyone, but we want you to backstab ND...

Possible?

Theseus (bringer of maaaany goodies)

ps: I don't know if this has ever come up in GoW, but you guys might want to check out one Sir John Hawkwood... he would be your patron saint (courtesy of Gordon Dickson and the Dorsai series in science fiction, which is also an ultimate mercenary anthem).

	23-10-2003 01:16									#161
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

From MZ, this morning:
___________________________

Whoa, I would have never expected something like this. I will take it to the team but regardless of the answer you have my sincere promise this will stay among our teams.

Never heard of Sir John Hawkwook but I'll check him out

Take care!
-MZ

	23-10-2003 20:23									#162
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

From Un0, at about 9am EST:

Honorable Theseus,

I have just now seen this in our forum, as my activity is down this month due mostly to RL, and my efforts to run a spook alley.

In answer to your first question, we are indeed Mercs, and yes we can be bought.

I do not know if MZ has contacted you further, but this is indeed being discussed our forum at present. Frankly, we had given up on anyone ever offering us anything, so you caught us a bit off guard.

That said, who would now be our point of contact within Gathering Storm? I know that your team dynamics have changed some since our last real contacts, but don't know the exact structure currently.

I hope to have a full answer shortly, and look forward to opening negotiations with your team once again.

Respectfully,
UnOrthOdOx
G.o.W. C.A.L.F. and Ambassassador to Gathering Storm

	24-10-2003 07:01									#163
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

DRAFT Response to Un0:

UnOrthOdOx,

Thank you for your response. You, sir, deserve the credit for our interest in a mercenary relationship, at this late date, with GoW (from a side comment of yours at MZO).

We live in an interesting world... a Chinese proverb, I believe.

GS, and other teams, in our interactions, have commented upon the yellow stain that seems to be spreading across Bob.

Are you not concerned? Are you not worried about what becomes of GoW if ND takes control of the majority of Bob?

We have become aware that there is a confluence of interest between GoW and Legoland. Add to that the relationships between Legoland and Vox and between GS and RP... it seems to a number of people that the odd relationship in this tangled weave is that between GoW and ND.

We, GS, would like to take the fore in advancing world relations to the next sensible stage.

We, GS, would like to hire GoW as part of a world movement to eradicate ND. We understand that they have been honorable partners to you, but geopolitical considerations prevail.

Furher, and however, we understand that we, GS, do not have the means to contract GoW to such a length... we will covenant all that we reasonably can, but we know that we also must engage Legoland, Vox, and RP in this endeavor. Given your agreement, we shall do so.

Assuming that we can deliver on such a multi-party arrangement... what do you desire?

On the parts of Legoland, Vox, and RP, it has been suggested that we try to conclude the game with a "build-off". GS is amenable to such, but we are open to other denouements as well.
__________________

Ahhh, I gotta be me... when I do these diplo messages, I think I'll end every one with my version of straight talk: We want to gangbang ND with EVERYONE; we can split up Bob in a sensible way after. What do we, GS, bring to the table? 1) The southern stand-off is a waste of time for all involved, 2) we are ready to lay a world of hurt on SOMEONE, and 3) we are OK with a build-off once things are a little more stable.

	24-10-2003 07:20									#164
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

What I actually sent, after some editing and additions:

UnOrthOdOx,

Thank you for your response. You, sir, deserve the credit for our interest in a mercenary relationship, at this late date, with GoW (from a side comment of yours at MZO).

We live in an interesting world... a Chinese proverb, I believe.

GS, and other teams, in our interactions, have commented upon the yellow stain that seems to be spreading across Bob.

Are you not concerned? Are you not worried about what becomes of GoW if ND takes control of the majority of Bob?

We have become aware that there is a confluence of interest between GoW and Legoland. Add to that the relationships between Legoland and Vox and between GS and RP... it seems to a number of people that the odd relationship in this tangled weave is that between GoW and ND.

We, GS, would like to take the fore in advancing world relations to the next sensible stage.

We, GS, would like to hire GoW as part of a world movement to eradicate ND. We understand that they have been honorable partners to you, but geopolitical considerations prevail.

Furher, and however, we understand that we, GS, do not have the means to contract GoW to such a length... we will covenant all that we reasonably can, but we know that we also must engage Legoland, Vox, and RP in this endeavor. Given your agreement, we shall do so.

Assuming that we can deliver on such a multi-party arrangement... what do you desire?

On the parts of Legoland, Vox, and RP, it has been suggested that we try to conclude the game with a "build-off". GS is amenable to such, but we are open to other denouements as well.

Our understanding of Legoland politics are that decisions are... hard fought. We would be happy to participate in any kind of dialogue that might facilitate our relations.
__________________

Ahhh, I gotta be me... when I do these diplo messages, I think I'll end every one with my version of straight talk: We want to gangbang ND with EVERYONE; we can split up Bob in a sensible way after. What do we, GS, bring to the table? 1) The southern stand-off is a waste of time for all involved, 2) we are ready to lay a world of hurt on SOMEONE, and 3) we are OK with a build-off once things are a little more stable.

Thoughts?

Theseus

ps: For the moment, I'll be the liaison... warning though, RL and work stuff makes me, uh, non-calendar-predictable.

pps: Screenshots of Halloween Alley? Somewhere? And yes, it's true, Theseus, nee Richard Podos, was born in Salt Lake City!

	25-10-2003 02:35									#165
	Got spare money?

From Un0:

I have written a proposal on a course of action in the GoW forum, and am awaiting support on the idea.

My scheduling is going to be as difficult as your own.

WHat would be your schedule for a possible chat this weekend? I will be spotty available most evenings, and could probably hold a chat any evening.

I think a chat would be the best format for discussing the many layers to this situation.

PS

My spook alley is in the Dinosaur Park in Ogden. Don't know how long you lived here, but it is about the PERFECT place for a spook alley focusing on ages 3-12.

	27-10-2003 03:16									#166
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

To Un0:

quote: I am around tonight... we just got a new kitten. (I almost wrote 'chicken', and then started to write War Kitten ) T/R

From Un0:

quote: Sorry. My wife's car broke down, and I have been spending all weekend repairing it. You have an IM of some kind? Im on AIM with SirUlias. Anyhow, things that need be addressed: Right now, the official position of GoW is that we are at war with RP, and that any conflicts with Gathering Storm is no more or less than collateral of that war. As such, there are those that would not like to see RP survive the current conflict. However, we are currently under contract to remove RP from Bob. The concensus on the team is that we need to follow through with that contract to it's end. After this contract is concluded, though, we will, as a team, be open to accepting RP's future from that point. So, the answer to your original question is both yes and no. We cannot stop aggression on RP at this time. However, once our current contract is resolved, we are open to nearly any new contract. For a Price. That price will include a good portion of Bob, I will tell you that now, and that would include access to at least one source of all resources, though we are discussing possibility of having those gifted to us. From our point of view, we are already promised half of Bob by tiles and resources under our current contract. A contract with a nation you already agree has been faithfull and peacefull unto us. Basically, would GS accept removal of RP from Bob as a condition to be met before GoW can enter into a new contract? Secondly, if so, what is GS and her allies willing to pay GoW for assistance in attacking ND? An assistance which offers the greatest risk to GoW, not any of the others involved.

Back at Un0:

I have posted the latter part of your PM in our forum... we'll get back to you over the next few days. Question: Under your current contract, does RP's absence from Bob need to be permanent?

I don;t really IM much, although I have an MSN Chat account.

T/R

	28-10-2003 04:37									#167
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Spoke to MZ in IRC.

Bigfree was shooting his mouth about how GoW were handing lego the game and was telling him to agree to a backstab on ND. So I sent him a message saying we should keep RP out of the discussion.



I think I was a bit hard on him or kinda threatening but I wanted to give him something to think about.

This is looking like it could really work out.
I think it is possible to get them to agree to having RP on bob aswell. Rather than just GS.

Although how badly do we really want to keep RP in the game????




*opd> I think it's better if this is discussed with just GS and GoW later on
*MZ[dinner]> obviously
*MZ[dinner]> I don't mind dealing with GS in the future, but RP will have no part in our plans
*MZ[dinner]> we did not waste a GA and a buildup just to let them live
*opd> what you mean BF didn't convince you with him argument
*MZ[dinner]> hahaha
*MZ[dinner]> seriously I know your team has sent a very interesting offer
*opd> yes
*MZ[dinner]> and we are equally serious in considering it (you can quote everything I say in your forum)
*opd> ok
*opd> to tell you the truth I think this war sucks big time
*MZ[dinner]> however, we have a contract to fullfill, that involves getting rid of the biggest threat to Bob which is RP. After RP we can think of other threats to Bob
*opd> RP are no longer a threat to anyone but Vox
*opd> I think GoW and GS could easily come up with a war thats a hell of alot more one sided
*MZ[dinner]> any deals and schemes between GoW-GS are very acceptable. Just leave RP out of it. The sooner RP is gone the sooner we can move on to bigger and better things
*opd> Do think there will be a time when RP are out of the game?
*MZ[dinner]> we wouldn't be fighting if we didn't think that
*MZ[dinner]> *WhiteBandit> frankly, the lines of teachery and hate have been drawn on both sides of this war. there is no way either side can ever work together effectively
*MZ[dinner]> that my friend is the summary of everything. We simply don't trust RP. Never have, never will
*MZ[dinner]> if RP has even ONE city on Bob we do not doubt they would somehow use whatever limited power they have to find a way to screw us
*opd> Well they aren't going to screw you in anyway and you have nothing to really fear from them
*opd> they only power they have is the nation they are allied with
*MZ[dinner]> I hope GS understands this. It is not our hearts talking, it's history talking. RP has screwed all of us around. We're frankly sick of it
*MZ[dinner]> so then what's the purpose of keeping them alive if they don't serve a purpose?
*MZ[dinner]> i'm sure GS has better things to do than fight a war overseas
*opd> no
*opd> we fight to prevent there being 2 superpowers ruling all of bob
*MZ[dinner]> getting rid of ND would do the same
*opd> 2 superpowers that are already allied and will likely rule the world
*MZ[dinner]> our alliance ends the moment the last RP unit is dead
*MZ[dinner]> you think we haven't thought of ND backstabbing us?
*opd> theoretically speaking how many cities would you have to lose to agree to allow RP to stay on bob
*MZ[dinner]> why would we lose them?
*opd> if theoretically GS were to raze them
*MZ[dinner]> what cities?
*opd> lol
*opd> I dunno
*MZ[dinner]> you gotta take em first
*opd> I don't mean to threaten
*opd> if GoW were to be faced with losing all their cities or making peace with RP what would you do?
*MZ[dinner]> ah so you are planning a massive invasion of GoW?
*opd>
*opd> but seriously it comes down to maths
*opd> is it worth GS taking GoW out of the game in order to have a puppet state on Bob
*opd> how much would we lose compared to what we'd gain
*MZ[dinner]> if hypothetically GS took out GoW why would you guys worry about RP?
*opd> I don't think we would
*MZ[dinner]> exactly
*MZ[dinner]> so then what's the point?
*opd> I don't see what you mean
*MZ[dinner]> why would you want GoW to make peace with RP if GS could take out GoW?
*opd> because we don't want to have to fight GoW, then ND, the Lego
*opd> We'd much rather GS and GoW fight ND the Lego.
*opd> Even if it means we have to throw hideous amounts of land at you
*MZ[dinner]> you just said it. GS and GoW. I don't see where RP fits into this
*opd> well we kinda said we'd protect them
*MZ[dinner]> by having your army on bob, theoretically you are *tsk* *tsk*
*opd> we said we'd protect them so we can't really sell their ass to you guys
*opd> as funny as that would be
*opd> alot of people left GS over the thing where we were acussed of being dishonest with you over the NAP
*MZ[dinner]> well if you though you were honest why did that bother them?
*MZ[dinner]> truth is always in the eye of the beholder
*opd> true
*MZ[dinner]> it's more likely we were both RIGHT than we were both wrong, or one of us right and one of us wrong
*opd> it's all in the past though really
*opd> the problem for the moment is that if GS were to screw RP, alot of GS would likely leave
*MZ[dinner]> you guys need to be more realpolitikish :P
*opd> rather than deal with the eventual crap than RP
*opd> rather than deal with the eventual crap from RP
*opd> that what I meant
*MZ[dinner]> no-one is telling GS to screw RP
*MZ[dinner]> we could simply how should I put it... reduce the intensity of battle between GoW/ND and GS units
*opd> we could get ND to use all their units attack RP
*MZ[dinner]> you know, right around the time we took all their southern cities we offered them a chance to survive: we offered them a very nice chunk of land south of the mountains all the way up to barcelona. They threw it back on our face
*MZ[dinner]> actually that was before we took their cities
*opd> what was the deal?
*opd> was it simply complete peace?
*MZ[dinner]> I don't really have a map with me but you see the mountains that run more or less north-easterly up to the river near new madrid, we offered them that part
*opd> how did GS figure in this deal
*MZ[dinner]> btw, there's something I don't get about this latest GS proposal
*MZ[dinner]> GS would be out of Bob
*opd> RP will be lucky to see that much land ever again
*MZ[dinner]> assuming we let RP live, and we backstab ND, and ND is out of the game, would Bob be split among GoW and RP or would GS get a bigass chucnk too?
*MZ[dinner]> it was not a bad deal compared to their present situation
*MZ[dinner]> they could fit around 8 cities in that land
*opd> we'd have to look into that
*MZ[dinner]> much more land and of better quality than Vox has now
*MZ[dinner]> because frankly if you guys just want to balance the power, I see no difference in GoW/ND splitting than GoW/Rp
*MZ[dinner]> at least ND is MUCH more trustworthy than RP
*opd> GS will likely get a piece of the pie
*opd> If you don't want RP to get much land GS can take more
*opd> GS are prepared to be very generous
*MZ[dinner]> lol
*opd> we'd have to look at the domination limit though
*MZ[dinner]> honestly and this is MY opinion, not GoW's, I'd much rather have GS on Bob than RP
*MZ[dinner]> I don't see how we could trust RP, GS on the other hand we feel can be trusted in the future
*opd> how would you see lego figuring in this?
*opd> ok
*MZ[dinner]> the idea would be to straighten our **** quick so we can maybe have a "build-off"
*opd> lmao
*opd> what?
*MZ[dinner]> unless you guys want more war...
*opd> I can't believe you bought that build off **** Lego have been suggesting
*MZ[dinner]> GoW? build-off? come on, it's an oxymoron
*opd> that sounds like way too much fun
*opd>
*MZ[dinner]> but we DO need a period of peace to build up for more war
*opd> the way I see it every nation should have to be fighting for survival at some point in the game
*opd> Lego shouldn't get to have railroads when they do
*opd> what if you were to get all of lego
*MZ[dinner]> that's a lot
*opd> yeah thats why we'd have to look at the domination limit
*opd> not that I can offer you that
*opd> I don't have the authority
*MZ[dinner]> likewise, most of what I have said are my ideas, not necessarily the teams'
*opd> cool
*MZ[dinner]> but you should post it so we can further the discussion
*opd> oh yes I'm going to
*opd> I think this is a good start
*MZ[dinner]> and like I said, we are VERY open to any suggestion that doesn't involve RP
*opd> ok
*opd> I have to go now
*opd> nice talking with you
*MZ[dinner]> same here
*MZ[dinner]> maybe we can have something more "official" in the days or weeks to come
*opd> yeah I think days may be better
*opd> you should contact Theseus really
*opd> ok later

	28-10-2003 07:44									#168
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Sent to Un0:

I know things have been a little quiet, and you and I have had RL stuff in the way... but even so, we are at quite the crux point.

We need to chat. Given current players' level of activity, I suggest you, me, MZ, and OPD.

In the interim, RP is faced with some imortant choices (like, NOW)... I am not quite sure what to advise them. Understand, any solution that we (GS) can enter into will include RP in some way... honor demands such.

Does your contract against RP's presence on Bob preclude a non-disclosed-third-party-negotiated-NAP for a limited period of time? Further, will your own code of honor allow such?

We have not yet determined what we can provide for your services... I would say, however, that much like the historic relations of sovereign nations and mercenary forces, we will certainly provide opportunities for lands and positions (i.e., we can covenant to a big chunk of the best of Bob, as well as glory and riches).
____________

* Theseus cuts to the chase again (and really, this is just me):

I'm just thinking... we get RP to relo to North Stormia and become a religious zone. GS and GoW smack ND down. We head to the west...

The resolution between us, GS and GoW?

Well, I gotta say, I want to win. Is there a way for that to happen in which GoW gets some other reward? A merc thing? Domain of Lego? Military command? Just blue-skying...

T/R

	28-10-2003 22:12									#169
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From Un0:

My deepest apologies.

My home modem fried last night, I was trying to get ahold of you. I have posted this in the forum, and will be PMing MZ to get with you for a chat time. If I can fix my modem by then, I'll certainly attend, if not, MZ will handle everything just fine.

As to the question of RP PREMENANTLY leaving, there is nothing in our contract REQUIRING that, but there are those who have hard feelings towards their team. I don't know if a kind of permanent PEACE with them would be possible or not, would need to go to a vote.

As for us being your personal goons (tm) for the rest of the game, forfeiting a win, I was TRYING to basically set that up from the beginning with you guys (only with us two having an enjoyable fight to the end) then you had to go and help out RP :P

I don't know what the current mind set of the team is on that point, though.

	29-10-2003 06:09									#170
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

To Un0:

No problem... sorry I couldn't get back to you before (work).

We are *very* interested in pursuing this idea.

I'll be straight up though, and tell you that just as GoW has some grudges re RP, some of our team remember some difficulties with GoW. I do NOT want us all to get into flames about this... it is ancient history as far as I'm concerned, but please be aware that it's an issue on my side.

Also, please be aware that until there is a formal cessation of hostilities, we (and all involved) must of course continue on our current course of action.

Oh yeah, and one more thing: We are about to (finally) open a big can o' whoopass on somebody.

(Please make sure to re-insert the smiley if you post this. )

T/R

	08-11-2003 00:57									#171
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

sent to Aggie

quote: Heya Aggie, hows it going? I had a discussion with MZ a while back about the current war between the our 2 nations. If possible I'd like to once again open discussions between us. Please note that none of what was said between us was passed on to RP, nor will anything you say be passed on. Here is the last message between us received by Theseus from UnO. quote: As to the question of RP PREMENANTLY leaving, there is nothing in our contract REQUIRING that, but there are those who have hard feelings towards their team. I don't know if a kind of permanent PEACE with them would be possible or not, would need to go to a vote. As for us being your personal goons (tm) for the rest of the game, forfeiting a win, I was TRYING to basically set that up from the beginning with you guys (only with us two having an enjoyable fight to the end) then you had to go and help out RP :P I don't know what the current mind set of the team is on that point, though. So what are your current thoughts on the war? And what is the mind set of your team. Do you think that an agreement can be reached between us?

	08-11-2003 03:32									#172
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Also shot brief PMs to Un0 and MZ following up on our discussion of a possible chat last week.

	08-11-2003 15:50									#173
	Increase the size of your Attachments

respose from Aggie, recieved about 6 or 7 hours ago.

Re: PTWDG
Hi OPD, its strange being on opposite sides of a war from people we used to work so well with in the past.

First off, these are my views and not necessarily those of GOW.

I believe that peace is possible between us. The main item preventing that is the presence of RP on our continent. I do not share this dislike, however many on my team do. Am I correct in assuming that the cities on N. Estonia are the first signs of an RP relocation. If so peace is closer in some ways that earlier.

On the other hand the landing of force near our homeland has complicated matters somewhat. Now I am not suprised at this development(I would have sent the first forces to this area, not the south). However, this event has the potential to change a distant war between nations on foreign soil to a war of national survival and perhaps to world war. Once this line is crossed events become much more complicated. For example, as of now I have not activated plans for an invasion of estonia, obviously I can not allow a potential invasion launch point to go unmolested.

Obviously, East Bob is not vitally important for any other reason than location, just as N Estonia is not vital to GS except for its location. So a war there can not truly be called a war of national survival and it is possible that we can overlook this event and make peace. The problem is that this is my personal view and not that of my team. It is possible that once national pride is insulted, peace will only come at a high price. So on this, I ask you to please reconsider your actions in N Bob, mainly ask yourself "Is the possible gain worth the definite losses and problems caused".

On the real issue though, RP on Bob, I see hope. The question is "how can GS make a peace deal with us and honor their deal with RP". I am a man of honor myself and do not expect you to violate a preexisting agreement. Does the Alliance with them have a time limit(that is reasonably close). If so perhaps we could have a cease fire till then and with the Alliance expired RP would be forced to accept a deal to relocate. Or is the Alliance for the"duration of hostilities". In that case we can simply make peace and then restar the war. In that event GS has honored their agreement and can hold its head high. I mean you have done valiantly and bravely and have endured significant losses with no potential of compensating gains. Lets face it the war gives no real gain for you or us and peace is desirable. All this being said I must stress(as theseus did) that until we have a solid agreement that we will continue all military actions.

After we have peace, then other plans can be made.

Best wishes and good luck
Aggie

	08-11-2003 16:29									#174
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

sent to GoW at 2pm GMT

quote: Aggie, It is a shame we are on opposite sides. However if we were to reach an agreement I'm sure you'd very much like working with the generals of GS. I find wars like this alot more fun when the odds are in more your favour and am sure you would too. First of all I do not want to talk about what we are doing, what we will do, what we could do or what you may do as I don't think that would be constructive. I believe we can make a good and fair agreement without threats or statements about how big millitaries are. There is nothing to gain from such statements or hints, instead we would like to entice you to join us. You stated that you would like RP off you continent. We think it may be possible for this to happen. What else would you like from us? All I will say is that the flow cannot and will not stop. So from what you say in your pm it is of vital importance that we come to some sort of agreement very quickly. And now for the good news!!! As you may be aware Lego have recently contacted us. Their message has given us the opportunity we needed to get close to convincing RP that northern estonia would be the best place for them. We believe it is possible that RP can agree to a RPodus and so an agreement between our 2 nations is possible. For the great benefit of us and perhaps the demise of everyone else. We would very much like to know what sort of deal you'd like to make with us, we'd like to split Bob between us and perhaps even make further plans... What do you say to us entering into a contract with you for the destruction of ND, as a first step? You may be aware that there are certain people within GS who are untrusting of GoW and therfore we would like assurances that if we leave Bob alone and have us move forward together, that we do not have a risk of losing more than the position we currently have. Specifically as a token of good will we would ask that technologies be passed from you to us so that there can be no turning back. hope to hear from you soon

	08-11-2003 23:34									#175
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

received about 2 mins ago

quote: Sounds positive. I figured Lego's action would have such an impact. I'll discuss with my team and see where all stand. Aggie

	11-11-2003 01:27									#176
	Get a bigger avatar today!

From Un0:

I've asked in the forum.

Typically, both Panzer and MZ would be online around that time. Aggie, I am unsure of, and GF attends when he feels like it... I don't try to track his timing.

I'll try to get a working outline (as has become customary with 'my' chats) to you a bit before the chat. Are there specific items that you want to hit? I really try to keep these more formal and business like than you may be used to, I find it helps everyone to stay focused on our goals.

As such, I would propose that both parties agree that this chat is not to decide, but rather to identify exactly what is being proposed. Then, that is brought back to a full vote of both the teams before a decision is made.

I am aware that the 'on the spot' decision of the NAP caused some discord within GS, and this rule will help to prevent anything similar happening now as well as anything similar occuring in GoW.

A second rule I would like to apply is some kind of deadline to the decision making process. Allot of our feelings that GS is difficult to deal with is a direct result that we are often left hanging and awaiting an answer. As such, I would propose that both teams meet or at least PM each other with some form of progress report on the proposals within a 72 hour period from the end of the chat.

Sorry to sound so formal, but I find that these three items: An Agenda to follow before a meeting, an action plan following a meeting, and a deadline for those actions, are essential to having a successfull meeting in any format.

Frankly, I think that is more the reason why our past negotiations failed, for the final meeting I did not attend, and none of those took place.

You have IRC? I suggest #GoW_CoFA as the meeting place and we can set a password up between now and then.

	11-11-2003 01:29									#177
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My reply:

Excellent... organization, what a concept.

What is the earliest that you can participate? I will be good this evening from 7:30 pm EST forward, if you can get an agenda out (with a little time for me to respond to the agenda, as we have put some structured thought into a possible deal).

T

	11-11-2003 02:51									#178
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From Un0:

The trouble is my wife is working.

I can be around, but only lurking as early as 5 PM EST, but I can't REALLY get down and dirty till late...10:30-11PM EST.

MZ is just about now waking up, and I haven't seen him respond to my request for a time and neither has anyone else as of yet.

I haven't had enough time, and won't really, to sort out all that has gone on between OPD and Aggie. My first attempt at a rough draft for an outline is as follows:



Each side presents their current position. We have been out of contact long enough for this to be beneficial again. It is how I started the initial discussions last time.

Perhaps a list of reasons why peace is beneficial, but I don't think this is needed. We both know that ongoing war is only benefitting really one team...

I suggest Gathering Storm go first, and present what they would like from an agreement for peace between our two nations: What land, where, why, help with ND, etc. I HOPE to allow this to continue uninterrupted, but cannot control individuals on my team...

GoW presents what they want for such a peace/cooperation to exist. Again, I hope to present this uninterrupted, but individuals will be themselves...

Give time for debate and compromising here. This section actually may require a second chat to be scheduled as it could be lengthy. I believe that a compromise can be reached, though.


Is there any changes/additions you see that really need to be made?

FYI, I don't have enough time or energy to be playing around. Hence, the very business-like attitude that will continue through all discussions. I don't have the time to be dancing around subjects, and will present everything straightforward. My wife prefers to call it tactless, but that is what you will get, straight up. I know there are those on my own team that do not act in such a manner, but this is what you can expect from me here and as long as I am your ambassador.

(And if I have any say, it is what can be expected from the mercenary team as a whole on MZO)

	11-11-2003 02:54									#179
	Support Apolyton

Proposed reply:

Un0:

You will find that GS will respond very well to an all-business approach. If anything, remembering the flame wars, one of our problems was that maintaining such an approach ourselves did not mesh with some other teams' and individuals' expectations, and further left us vulnerable to personal attacks, whether real or feigned.

I like your agenda; may I further flesh it out with this addition of potential deal points (feel free to suggest edits / improvements):

* Roleplay
* Lego / Vox
* Territory
* Gold
* Techs
* Resources
* Military coordination
* Completion of contract

T

	11-11-2003 10:15									#180
	Increase Your PM Length

Part I

Session Start: Sun Nov 09 21:39:08 2003
Session Ident: #GoW_CoFA
* Logging #GoW_CoFA to 'logs\GoW.GRNet.log'
Theseus> I am a newb at both IRC and diplo. I am turning on the log now, and I would like to start with a discussion of confidentiality.
[GoW]UnO> Go ahead.
** Cort has joined #GoW_CoFA
Aggie> welcome
Theseus> First, are we agreed that this chat is to be held confidential between GS and GoW?
Cort> hi
Theseus> Hi CH!
MasterZen> hey CH!
** MasterZen sets mode: +o Cort
MasterZen> Theseus, agreed
Aggie> reasonable
Theseus> Next: It ain;t that confidential. Nimitz and Sharpe know we are chatting. Future reference... chat channels should not include team names.
MasterZen> better yet, just make them secret
Theseus> Yeah, I ma new to this, that should always be done ASAP.
[GoW]UnO> I thought Panzer did when it was made, I should have checked.
Theseus> Un0, would you like to be MAster of Ceremonies?
[GoW]UnO> Err what?
Theseus> Your agenda.
[GoW]UnO> I'll be on and off till my kids go to bed.
Theseus> OK, I'll just jump into it.
MasterZen> I'll take over from UnO if necessary
Theseus> Your call.
MasterZen> go ahead, you can start
[GoW]UnO> Theseus, would you like to go first, or shall I?
Theseus> I will... uh, we can see YK.
Aggie> yes
Theseus> Nice volley.
Aggie> we noticed
Theseus> I hope it's OK with you guys... I like to keep things friendly and remember it's a game.
Panzer32> valley you mean?
Panzer32> Welcome to the beautiful Province of Isolationia, Theseus
Aggie> i believe so, actually the war has been fun, no matter how it turns out
Theseus> Good.
Panzer32> You will find me at the capital building in YK
Theseus> Before we go on: What do you mean Panzer?
Panzer32> nothing important
Theseus> roleplayig, or provincial control?
Panzer32> Isolationia is a province of GoW
Panzer32> I control it
Theseus> Not prying, just interested.
Panzer32> but yes I'm RPing
Panzer32> sure
MasterZen laughes from his balcony from his Castle of Darkness in Zenophobia
Cort> Nice name
[GoW]UnO> Land of the dragons.
MasterZen> thanks, I usually name my capital in PBEMs like that
Cort> I thought dragoons were only in Civ2
Theseus> Theseusville is my standard... not very imaginative.
Aggie> hehe
Theseus> @CH: lol
[GoW]UnO> Never mind, my story...
Panzer32> My title is "Consul of Internal Affairs, King of Trafalgar, and Lord of all Isolationia"
Cort> Nice title
Theseus> Well, Isolationia is part of the current stroy.
[GoW]UnO> Ok. Guys, can we aproach something resembling a point?
Panzer32> ok
Theseus> We do not want to attack you.
Theseus> How's that?
[GoW]UnO> Go on Theseus, I'm just trying to keep it on topic.
[GoW]UnO> One needs to slap GoW around now and then to keep them focused.
Theseus> We think southern Bob is a friggin' QUAGMIRE, and we ar bored with it.
Theseus> We think it only benefits Lego.
MasterZen> wait till you see the north
Cort> @MZ:lol
Theseus> Yup, we know.
Theseus> Sorry... pause... Amy wants me for a minute.
Cort> Ahem, we were wondering that it's probably not in our mutual interest to spend so many shields on each other like this
Panzer32> probably not
Aggie> this war is expensive for little real gain
[GoW]UnO> For all involved, that can be agreed.
Cort> wouldn't you fancy the land to your immediate south rather than all the way down there in Spain?
[GoW]UnO> My mom is IMing me, I'll be away for a minute.
MasterZen> I believe this chat was planned to get into such arrangements regarding land to our "immediate south"
Cort> and perhaps swift fullfilment of an otherwise perhaps tedious contract?
Theseus> Back.
Panzer32> what is your proposal. I hate this skirting the issue
Theseus> Ahem... to jump to the chase:
Theseus> We would like to contract with GoW.
Cort> RP of Bob and a better chunk of the continent than you can get with ND
Cort> off, not of
MasterZen> "off" bob I presume
MasterZen> xpost
MasterZen> sounds "arrangeable"
Cort> what chunk did you have in mind?
Theseus> Sorry... mIRC is weird, can;t control the window.
Theseus> Got it.
Theseus> Yes, we would like to contract with you... for the eradication of ND.
Theseus> We acknowledge that this will first require the removal of RP from Bob in order for you to complete your current contract.
MasterZen> that would definitely be in order, sounds like a "RPodus (tm)" to me
Cort> omg not again
Theseus> Grrrr
MasterZen> ok, just kidding
Theseus> Alright, we can call it an Rpodus, but it'll cost ya!
[GoW]UnO> Im back.
Cort> they'll like it in old voxia
Theseus> Did Un0 post in your forum the outline of deal issues that I ahd PMed him?
[GoW]UnO> Yes.
[GoW]UnO> and its an O not a 0 damn it.
Theseus> So sorry, I've been writing it the wrong way for months!
[GoW]UnO> I'm well aware...
Cort> but many at GS would like to reinstall them in part of old spain one day... is that inconcievable for GoW?
Theseus> (I thought you were doing the leet thing)
Theseus> Sorry
Theseus> Try being called rpodus
Cort> gentlemen, this is the war room!
MasterZen> leet is f0r l0053r5...err.... nevermind
Theseus> You can't fight here!!
Panzer32 moves an infantry figurine over 1 inch
Theseus> ok
Theseus> RP off Bob... acceptable?
[GoW]UnO> Acceptable...required is a better statement.
Theseus> Done.
Theseus> ND off Bob... off the PLANET... accetable?
Theseus> acceptable
Theseus> (pregnant pause)
[GoW]UnO> Possible.
[GoW]UnO> I said earlier, This is not to agree to anything, but rather to hammer out the deal to be brought back to discussion in the forum.
Theseus> Fair enough.
[GoW]UnO> Yes, we agree to discuss it, but not to DO it at this point.
Theseus> Yes, for us as well.
Cort> meanwhile we don't really want to be clonking each others pieces, I'd venture
Theseus> We see things as follows: The current situation in suthern Bob is a waste of time. Spain has been eviscerated, and now GoW, ND, and GS are just wasting time and shields.
Theseus> Frankly, Lego is the winner in this conflict.
[GoW]UnO> True.
Panzer32> 6*And blockhead secret Lego agent over here is loving it...
Theseus> We also look at the map of Bob, and even though you are our 'enemy', we have to notice that it is awfully yellow.
Panzer32> the black is hard to see thats why we chose it
[GoW]UnO slaps Panzer
Theseus> lol
Panzer32> its completely true
[GoW]UnO> "fog of war"
MasterZen> plus, there's already a plethora of phrases for other colors "yellow peril" "red scourge" etc. there's nothing about black yet
[GoW]UnO> Please continue Theseus.
Theseus> Put yourselves in our place... we do not believe we can win the game with Stormia as our sole territory.
[GoW]UnO> Fair enough.
Theseus> We also have a desire to help RP survive... logical? No.
MasterZen> lol
Theseus> We also want a fun game.
Theseus> BRB... sorry for the delay,
Cort> Guys, how did you get Lego to put their asses on the line for you? That was impressive.
[GoW]UnO> Alright, as long as there's a delay, I'll put my kids to bed.
Aggie> delicate diplomacy
[GoW]UnO> Asses?
Cort> they're not all too happy about getting pulled into a war....
Panzer32> my blockhead connections worked very well thank you
MasterZen> traitor! :P
Panzer32> actually I had a whole explanation of the blockheads typed up and ready to post but I lost the file
Cort> you must have played the damsel in distress
Theseus> Back.
Theseus> The current situation is a non-starter.
Theseus> We have a better idea.
Aggie> well this is about gow/GS not lego
Panzer32> basically when I was (still am) King of Trafalgar, the Western Port, we sent galleys to Lego for exploration and they brought back Legolian ideals and so we started a group called the blockheads.
Theseus> You are mercs? We want to hire you.
Theseus> We think we can remove RP from Bob.
Aggie> what if they don't won't to go
MasterZen> yeah, that's a big "if"
Theseus> Then we are full of it... but I think it can be done. Can we have a discussion on that predicate?
Aggie> sure
[GoW]UnO> Sorry, back.
Theseus> Here is the heart of the offer: RP leaves. We join together, and eradicate ND (Lego and Vox involved, preferebly). You get a LOT more of Bob. Other terms TBD.
Theseus> How do you like THEM apples?
[GoW]UnO> It's worth discussing. I'll present our side of this when you are done. What does GS want out of this?
Theseus> A chunk of Bob. Resources, alhtough we have a bright idea about how to share. The possibility of helping RP re-build part of Spain... we know that is an emotional issue, but it is important to us. Other stuff.
Aggie> where would rp be allowed to rebuild
MasterZen> I'm sure there are a number of 1-tile tundra islands we haven't discovered yet
Theseus> Don't know yet...
[GoW]UnO> "Other Stuff" is a bit vague for my taste on attempting to finalize a proposal.
Theseus> UnO, we are not anywhere CLOSE to finalisin.
Theseus> g
[GoW]UnO> Can I ask something?
Theseus> Sure
[GoW]UnO> How far are you willing to go to keep RP alive?
Theseus> Pretty far.
[GoW]UnO> Not just for this conflict, but into the future as well?
Theseus> We are contemplating gifting them N. Stormia.
[GoW]UnO> We are well aware of that part.
[GoW]UnO> Is this a permanent protection?
MasterZen> or like a war-long contract like us with ND?
Theseus> Dunno... it is emotional at this point. IN fact, I can't even recall if it IS a contract.
[GoW]UnO> Fair enough.
Theseus> What a weird thing all of this is.
Theseus> Counts to me, though.
Aggie> this didn;t turn out like we all expected
[GoW]UnO> A plan only lasts until the first engagement.
Theseus> Bizzie-marckie.
MasterZen> -Clausewitz
Theseus> Oops, MZ is right.
Cort> what did you expect, Aggie?
Aggie> what would make you stop fighting us
Theseus> A partnership.
Aggie> i don't know this was my first MP war, but not this thats for sure
[GoW]UnO> Alright, let me see if I have this all straight.
MasterZen> look this is a personal observation, I don't trust RP at all. AT ALL. I know they will want to try and do something to hurt us later in the game. What is GS's view on this? I trust GS much more than I do RP
Cort> RP live ny oue say so ...
[GoW]UnO> 1. Gathering Storm convinces RP to leave.
Cort> I'll try again
[GoW]UnO> This frees GoW of their current Contract.
Theseus> I'm gonna let UnO get it all out...
[GoW]UnO> 2. At this point Gathering Storm Proposes that GS and GoW enter into a contract to erradicate the yellow stain.
Theseus> Can't help myself: ERRADICATE THE YELLOW STAIN!!!
[GoW]UnO> In return, Gathering Storm is offering GoW "a lot more of Bob" and "Other terms to be determined"
Theseus> Can't hel myself: I am willing to get much more specific.
Theseus> (This is turning into a pattern)
[GoW]UnO> Gathering Storm gets "A chunk of Bob, resources, and an opportunity to return a portion of Spain, and "other Stuff"
[GoW]UnO> Specific? Please. Lets hear it.
Theseus> Waiting for that... but first, are you amenable?
[GoW]UnO> Im not a dictionary...amenable?
[GoW]UnO> (Despite my...*cough* so very intelligent writing)
[GoW]UnO> (yeah right)
[GoW]UnO> Theseus, it is not out of the realm of possibilities at this point, no.
Theseus> Sorry... I'm gonna put some further deal terms on the table... if they are *decent* are you guys serious about ab possible deal?
[GoW]UnO> It's a bit vague to even venture a guess at whether it will be accepted.
MasterZen> you name 'em, we discuss them, nothing is ever outrageous, especially to GoW
[GoW]UnO> Lord that's the truth.
Theseus> Fair enough.
Theseus> Bear with me...

Last edited by vulture on 11-11-2003 at 14:51