30-10-2003 02:05									#151
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Playing the turn. Will report soon.

	30-10-2003 02:30									#152
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1870bc played.

Worker - ooops - forgot to name him - is roading the tile he is on.

C-Burial completed. Both the other civs have it.

Started Literature. 23 turns at 100%, and -1gpt.

Both northern warriors moved north. Nothing much new.

(and btw - I really like that hill site in the middle of the luxuries. a) it stakes out a border b) it gets us a pile of luxuries and b) we would be protecting a big chunk of jungle for the eco-system. This is something we should think about.)

Gorilla to barracks. Says 5 turns, but we need 13 shields and are only producing 3 per turn. We can get a fourth on the fourth turn by moving workers around with Macaque, which will be finished the granary in 3. Actually, it can have the workers adjusted on turn 3 and still get the granary out.

PC finishes its granary next turn.

Then we push out settlers and workers, and let Gorilla produce vet num merc, which I think we should rename as Guardians of the Earth, or Eco-Protectors, or something like that in keeping with our theme.

So - how goes the negotiation with CoD and Python. No sign of any explorer.

The warrior on the southern mountain is back up to two HP's.

	30-10-2003 08:14									#153
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quote: Originally posted by Beta 1870bc played. (and btw - I really like that hill site in the middle of the luxuries. a) it stakes out a border b) it gets us a pile of luxuries and b) we would be protecting a big chunk of jungle for the eco-system. This is something we should think about.)

How does that fit into our master plan for the north. And I would settle on Jungle unless we decide we CANT do that because of the monkey thing or you specifically want the higher defense of a hill since its close to the cake eaters. Free jungle clearing is nothing to sneeze at!

quote: Originally posted by Beta So - how goes the negotiation with CoD and Python. No sign of any explorer.

No word from Arrian yet, he must be getting consensus and everyone is busy eating cake.

	30-10-2003 17:25									#154
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quote: Originally posted by conmcb25 How does that fit into our master plan for the north. And I would settle on Jungle unless we decide we CANT do that because of the monkey thing or you specifically want the higher defense of a hill since its close to the cake eaters. Free jungle clearing is nothing to sneeze at!

Yes - I was thinking of the hill site for defensive purposes. The twon will never grow much - but it would let us claim a pile of luxuries.

Regarding the free jungle clearing, I think this is something we need to discuss. Is jungle clearing via city building seen as the same as cutting.

I appreciate that this may seem like nonsense given the real game rules, but to be honest, I for one really like our ecological stance. It will also be interesting to see how we do while limiting ourselves from cutting.

Back to your first point though - we do need a settlement plan for the north. I will draw one up this evening. Basically - I see us settling the hill with the luxuries, and two sites west of that - on the south side of the river. And one on the western peninsula to essentially lay claim to all the land south of it. That would give us a very good chunk of land. It may require some negotaition. Like promising to provide free of charge a luxury for each of our neighbours to the north.

	31-10-2003 03:44									#155
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1830bc turn played.

Jojo and Cheetah both moved NE. Nothing much new.

Worker finished the road.

PC finished the granary. Settler in 5.

Mac finishes its granary in two.

Gor finishes the barracks in 3.

(moved some of the citizens around to optimize shield use)

Literature now in 20 turns.

Treasury at 19 and -2gpt.

Giles in the far south is now fully healed, and fortified on the mountain. Barb headed his way. We could use the 25 gold from the barb village to maintain our current research rate. If the one barb attacks this turn - and kills himself - then Giles will move on the village for the 25 gold.

That's it. Other than the game is moving at a good pace these days.

	31-10-2003 05:43									#156
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Have we spotted CoD's explorer yet?

As for the jungle clearing, I don't think that settling in the jungle should be treated the same as basic jungle clearing. We could ask that the city is built with some ecological awareness or something along these lines, but I don't think we should get too radical with this... Don't want to turn everyone against us!

--Kon--

	31-10-2003 07:55									#157
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quote: Originally posted by Konquest02 Have we spotted CoD's explorer yet? As for the jungle clearing, I don't think that settling in the jungle should be treated the same as basic jungle clearing. We could ask that the city is built with some ecological awareness or something along these lines, but I don't think we should get too radical with this... Don't want to turn everyone against us! --Kon--

Ditto Kon. There maybe some places up north where we HAVE TO clear a jungle square as part of a settler city build.

And as long as we reforest somewhere it should be OK. And when we eventually get our cities down in the Tundra we can forest that.

	31-10-2003 08:25									#158
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Next build in Gor should be a NM.... Any objections?

	31-10-2003 08:59									#159
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IRT Kon's Post: Sounds good go for it.

One comment on builds in Primate Central.

I looked at the save and a settler will be built in 5 turns and we wont pop to population 4 till 7 turns.

Thats not efficient. We should plan on popping right when we advance a population point or one or two turns after.

There is no barracks in Primate but we could build a temple in ten turns or another explorer warrior in 2. That would set up the cue next for a settler and we would pop right after growing to four which according to Kon is the optimal size for pumping out settlers.

Just a thought.

	01-11-2003 23:46									#160
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1790bc turn played - will post shortly.

	02-11-2003 02:47									#161
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1790bc turn played

PC switched to warrior as per com's suggestion. You could also play with the citizens to get the settler out one turn later and enhance city growth. But then for the sake of one more turn we can also have a warrior. Which we can use as our cities grow.

Speaking of warriors - I shuffled them around a bit. You will see that the CoD scout is now next to Gorilla. I moved Macaque's warrior (Furry I think) to Gorilla, and moved Zena from PC to outside of Macaque. PC will produce its own warrior next turn. So, even if CoD was tempted, they cannot take any of the cities. (Can a scout take an empty city anyways?)

So - PC produces a warrior next turn.
Macaque produces a granary.
Gorilla produces a barracks in two.

The worker could not move to Gorilla 6 because the scout was there - so he is now at Gorilla 3-3. This directly blocks the scouts route due south, so con, you may want to apologize to CoD. But it was the next logical tile.

Here is the view of the central area:

http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Be...0bc-central.JPG

Up north - both warriors moved northerly. Jojo on the east has hit the edge of CoD territory. Any need to explore further?

http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Be...790bc-north.JPG

And down south - no screenshot - but we do need to figure out how we keep CoD from poppinbg the hut other than the one agreed to. We may need a second warrior down there to prevent them from doing so. And it would be good to have a warrior nearby when they do pop it so we can see for ourselves what may - or may not - transpire.

	02-11-2003 06:53									#162
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quote: Originally posted by Beta 1790bc turn played PC switched to warrior as per com's suggestion. You could also play with the citizens to get the settler out one turn later and enhance city growth. But then for the sake of one more turn we can also have a warrior. Which we can use as our cities grow.

quote: So, even if CoD was tempted, they cannot take any of the cities. (Can a scout take an empty city anyways?)

No, a scout can't take a city. It's not even counted as a military unit. See the thread in the strat forum by MrWIA about barbs spawing next to his workers. But they will have the impression that we are not running on paper-thin defense, which is a good public relations move, IMHO.

quote: Up north - both warriors moved northerly. Jojo on the east has hit the edge of CoD territory. Any need to explore further?

I say yes, but do not enter CoD's culture footprint. More exploring is rather good because if we ever go to war, we'll have a more complete map if no ones likes to trade theirs...

quote: And down south - no screenshot - but we do need to figure out how we keep CoD from poppinbg the hut other than the one agreed to. We may need a second warrior down there to prevent them from doing so. And it would be good to have a warrior nearby when they do pop it so we can see for ourselves what may - or may not - transpire.

See the route thread. If we give them the western hut, then they won't come popping one of the other two by accident. They're too far to be an accident.

When they will pop the hut, nothing will transpire, because it's impossible for them to get barbs. This is the only visible thing that we may see... So yes, it might be imposing to have a warrior down there, but I don't think it's mandatory...

--Kon--

	03-11-2003 15:17									#163
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quote: Originally posted by Beta 1790bc turn played PC switched to warrior as per com's suggestion. You could also play with the citizens to get the settler out one turn later and enhance city growth. But then for the sake of one more turn we can also have a warrior. Which we can use as our cities grow.

Ok.. but lets not do too many more warriors
Without iron, we cant upgrade them.

I would rather stick to NM's or push for warrior code and build archers.

NM's are better, as we will no longer need to fear barbarians. Even regular NM's are OK, because the barb camps will promote them soon enough.

	03-11-2003 18:04									#164
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Good point, it was just a lot quicker to get one more warrior and then get the settler. It was just more efficient.

And we could use one more warrior for exploration, but I agree we need to begin building NM's.

	03-11-2003 18:30									#165
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quote: Originally posted by Konquest02 :When they will pop the hut, nothing will transpire, because it's impossible for them to get barbs. This is the only visible thing that we may see... So yes, it might be imposing to have a warrior down there, but I don't think it's mandatory... --Kon--

I was also thinking of a settler. Which would be interesting given how far he would be from home.

	03-11-2003 18:39									#166
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1750 bc turn played

PC produced warrior. Renamed Willy. Fortified. Build to settler. 5 turns, in sync with grwoth in 5 turns. Good call con.

Also - having a warrior in each of the main cities is a cheap way to keep folks happy, and makes our military look stronger on the F3 screen.

Macaque - granary finished. Growth in two. settler in 5.

Gorilla. Barracks finished next turn.

Jojo moved 9.

Cheetah moved 8.

Nothing much.

In the south - Giles moved from his mountain top. I want the 25 gold from the barb encampment.

The coD scout moving south as planned.

Worker (and again - I forgot to name him. He is going to be Washington) roading the tile.

That's it fellow apes. Banana anyone?

	05-11-2003 01:28									#167
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1725bc turn played.

Jojo moved west as requested by CoD.

Cheetah continued to the north.

http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Be...725bc-north.JPG

Giles pulled out his trusty CivCombatCalculator, and decided that 56% odds are not good enough to tackle a fortified barb. I agree with him. We cannot afford to lose him with the CoD scout coming south. Giles is moving to the area.

I suggest we also send Furry south from PC next turn once the scout has moved on.

I dropped the slider to 80%. We had 12 in the treasury and were losing 4 per turn at 100%. We are now at -1 which gives us time to get either two warriors down there - or a num merc (preferable) - or until the negotiations over huts and techs is done.

Both PC and Macaque will produce settlers in 4.

Gorilla finished barracks and started num merc. It says 10 turns, but it will be less. macaque grows next turn, and I can re-arrange the citizens to get more shields to Gorilla.

Worker finished the road. I recommend we move him due north to road and mine the tile 6 from Gorilla.

We will need a second worker shortly.

Here's a pic of the south. You can jusr see Giles in the far SE.

http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Be...725bc-south.JPG

And btw - we have this game moving at a pretty good pace now.

Also btw - if one of you play the turn, LL wants the save renamed ToLatinLover, xxxx xx.sav (just replace the Kong of the Monkey with ToLatinLover.)

I am not a big fan of renaming saves, but they requested it, so be it.

	07-11-2003 04:50									#168
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1700bc played.

http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Be...700bc-south.JPG

Worker moves noth one tile to road.

Giles in the south moves to the hill tile. He will now move west to make sure the scout goes where he should.

Jojo moved west. Cheetah north. Not much new.

(and besides - I just loaded C3C and I am impatient to play. )

The CoD scout drifted one tile east. I tryst this is OK, but com, you may want to make sure he goes due south from there.

Settlers out in 3. NM out in 9, but will be sooner.

cya. C3C calls.

	07-11-2003 05:07									#169
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quote: Originally posted by Beta cya. C3C calls.

Lucky bastard...

Have fun!

	09-11-2003 20:25									#170
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1675bc turn played.

Warriors Giles, Jojo, and Cheetah all moved. Nothing exciting.

Lost sight of the CoD scout. Giles is headed that way.

Lit in 18 at -1gpt. Treasury at 10.

Two settlers out in two turns. We know for sure where one is going. (8-8-9 of PC) What about the second?

	10-11-2003 10:32									#171
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quote: Originally posted by Beta 1700bc played. The CoD scout drifted one tile east. I tryst this is OK, but com, you may want to make sure he goes due south from there.

Yep Arrian did When the Scout was 2 due south of PC. I counted off the grid and gave the appropriate amount of 2's and 1's.

Got it covered last week right before I left.

	12-11-2003 17:23									#172
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1650 bc played.

Giles moved towards the hills east of the CoD assigned hut. He can move to the hills next turn to observe.

Jojo is moving back to explore the shadowed areas and eventually the peninsula.

Cheetah is continuing north.

Not much to show.

Settlers out next turn. So one city goes 8-8-9 and the other goes up north by the proposed border. Right?

No, I will lay down the other core city. The one to the south-east of PC.

I am also suggesting PC then build a worker while Macaque starts another settler. I will see how the queues look when I play next turn.

	12-11-2003 17:56									#173
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Damn Beta,

You beat me by about 3 minutes.
I just logged on to post that I had played the save.

Fortunately, I had not send it on yet.

Here is our full map if anyone is interested.

Fullmap

	13-11-2003 04:56									#174
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A couple of things I noticed....

We will have 2 more settlers
Thats 5 cities, with only 3 warriors to defend them.
Barbarian settings on restless.

We will need to send 1 warrior with the settler heading SW. There is no road network, so he will need to be covered. (I suggest PC's Warrior)

Our new northern city is in most danger from Barbs. He needs a warrior. (Or Gorilla's warrior can pull double duty.)

Macaque is probably our safest city, so that warrior can cover PC.

We need some mercs & another worker to improve the south.
We could even build a merc or two between settlers.
Mercs can get those barb huts a lot easier than warriors.
And we should be getting a lot more barbs in the near future. The 25g per hut is really going to help our science.

	14-11-2003 05:27									#175
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1625bc turn played.

Jojo continues his trek back to the SW.

Cheetah pushes north.

http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Be...625bc-north.JPG

In the south - Giles moves to the hill top and sees neither barb nor CoD scout. I presume the latter is just beyond sight range. I wil send a quick note to Arrian and Cort Haus to give them the 'all clear'. I think the barb may have headed north.

And - two settlers produced. Zena accompanies the settler from Macaque to the northern site (Orangutan maybe). They will be there next turn.

Willy is accompanying the PC settler to the SW southern site. They can make it there in two more turns. The SE site was an extra turn. Also - it will take less to get the tiles improved for this site, and we don't need as long a road right now, and it is well away from any barbs.

PC is now producing another settler, (8 turns), and Macaque our second worker (3 turns).

Gorilla will produce the NM in 3. It says four on the screen, but I can get the one extra shield on the third turn to get the build done in three, (I think).

Literature in 22 turns. Treasury is at 8 and -1gpt. The two new cities should help that.

The worker - still un-named - I keep forgetting - is mining the enhanced grassland tile which was roaded last turn. Here is the pic:

http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Be...625bc-south.JPG

	14-11-2003 05:30									#176
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Sorry H_E.

But it looks like we were on the same page anyway. Both settlers accompnaied by warriors. Macaque and PC left vacant for now. Zena can make it to PC in one turn. I advise we station the num merc there when he is done.

Worker coming up shortly. And yes - I agree - a few more mercs to ensure security.

	14-11-2003 08:09									#177
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That one city with the barracks is building a NM, correct?

Sorry for asking but I haven't had a chance to look at the save lately.

Ya it is I just looked, thank god we are building more cities, we need some production/ commerce generation BAD!

	14-11-2003 22:09									#178
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1600bc turn played.

(I am away until late Saturday night - so can one of you play the next turn. Some suggestions are here.)

WC received from CoD.

Their scout is in the clear from barbs. I suggest Giles move either 2 or 3 next turn so he can keep an eye on both the scout and the results of the hut popping.

The southern settler moved south - one tile away from the site, which is the hill IIRC. The northern settler moved to the site. Build here next turn - and I think we are calling it Orangutan (or however it is spelled).

I have moved both warriors left in the city core to the spot 6 of Gorilla. From there they can reach any of the cities as need be because of wandering barbs or scouts. You will see another scouting CoD? warrior just NE of the new city of Orangutan.

Jojo moved SW. I recommend he continue on this path right down the peninsula.

Cheetah is continuing north.

Macaque produces a worker in two turns.

Whoverer plays next turn, please see if the new mine is built 6 of Gorilla. If yes - then it would be possible to get the num merc out in two. However, I suspect that will not be the case and we will be wasting some shields. Not much we can do about it, unless we want the build extended out to something like a temple. And I think we need some heavy defenders, despite all the friendly talk.

Can you also stay in touch with Cort Haus regarding the hut and moves. Cheers fellow monkeys... hey ... is that a kiwi over there??!! Gotta go!

	17-11-2003 17:36									#179
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1575bc played

Cheeta in the North moves North.
(His CoD scout shadow is following him)
Cheeta reports that he sees the Pythin borders.

Jojo also in the North moves West.
(His CoD warrior shadow is following him)
Jojo reports yet more silks... The jungle is full of them !!!

Here is the map up North
What is REALLY interesting is how close the Python border is to the CoD capital.
CoD & Python are already sharing a border !!



http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Ho...l/1575north.jpg


OK, in the South, we have an immediate problem
Bedevere the Python warrior has appeared right next to our settler.
I settled Orangutan and moved Fury & Zena to cover the new city. This is to ensure that Python cant take it.

1. This has left our capital and south dangerously unprotected.
2. Bedevere the Python warrior is now within our cultural borders

Con... An urgent message to Python is needed to tell them that their warrior must move North. They CANNOT explore any further South

Willy & our settler move SW and can build our next city on the next turn.

Giles Moves SE and can report that there are no barbarians in sight.
He cannot see tile 2,3 from his position which is next to the hut. There is a possibility that a barbarian is there and will kill the scout next turn.
It's up to CoD if they want to risk it.

Here is the map in the South

http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Ho...l/1575south.jpg


Other Stuff..
Literature in 16 @ -1gpt ... we have only 6g left

Macaque will produce our second worker next turn
Gorilla will produce our first NM in 2 turns
PC will produce a settler in 6 turns

Our military is definately the weakest.
And our GNP & Mfg Goods is well behind everyone else.
I think this is because we were late in getting our graineries.

Thats it !!

Last edited by Hot_Enamel on 17-11-2003 at 17:53

	17-11-2003 18:09									#180
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Sent a quick reply email to Sir Ralph of Monty Python explaining the Warrior problem. Told him Con will contact them through official channels soon.

Sent a PM to Arrian & Cort Haus regarding Giles Report